13:01:38 <ChrisBr> #startmeeting
13:01:38 <bugbot> Meeting started Fri May 13 13:01:38 2016 UTC.  The chair is ChrisBr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:38 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:01:43 <ancorgs> hello
13:01:47 <mssola> hello
13:01:48 <ChrisBr> hello everyone :)
13:01:48 * RichiH raises hand
13:01:59 <ChrisBr> welcome to our first openSUSE GSoC mentor meeting
13:02:07 * RichiH pokes differentreality
13:02:07 <KalabiYau> hello, Arte
13:02:10 <KalabiYau> m is here
13:02:40 <differentreality> brb in 2'
13:02:49 <ChrisBr> as an update:
13:02:54 <ChrisBr> We have 6 projects under openSUSE
13:02:59 <ChrisBr> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/4794149198888960/#projects
13:03:11 <ChrisBr> and additional 1 project under FOSDEM
13:03:17 <ChrisBr> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/6340195892854784/#projects
13:03:29 <ChrisBr> differentreality and RichiH are responsible for the FOSDEM project
13:03:56 <ChrisBr> #topic Next steps
13:04:06 <henne> can we make a round call?
13:04:13 <henne> who is here for the GSoC meeting?
13:04:17 * henne is
13:04:21 * ChrisBr is
13:04:22 * imobach is
13:04:28 * ancorgs is
13:04:42 * KalabiYau is
13:04:45 * mssola is
13:05:17 <henne> anyone else? :)
13:05:22 <hernansp> \me is
13:05:25 * hernansp is
13:05:26 <hernansp> haha
13:05:28 <ChrisBr> haha
13:05:50 <ChrisBr> AFAIK differentreality is back in a few minutes
13:05:56 * differentreality here
13:06:20 <henne> okay so who is missing?
13:06:35 * RichiH roll calls again, just for good measure
13:06:47 <henne> josef
13:06:55 <henne> antonio
13:06:57 <ChrisBr> antlarr is missing but he told me that he has no time
13:07:00 <ancorgs> josef is sick
13:07:04 <henne> cornelius
13:07:42 <henne> cornlius is lost in the USA
13:08:01 <henne> okay coo. on to next steps
13:08:03 <henne> cool*
13:08:24 <ChrisBr> Is everyone subscribed to the gsoc-mentors mailing list?
13:08:29 <ChrisBr> If not, please do so!
13:08:45 <KalabiYau> @suse ?
13:08:51 <henne> just send a mail to gsoc-mentors+subscribe@opensuse.org
13:08:54 <ChrisBr> opensuse
13:08:56 <ancorgs> @opensuse
13:08:58 <ChrisBr> thanks henne
13:10:04 * RichiH is subscribed now
13:10:05 <ChrisBr> We plan to have another mentor meeting around midterm and final evaluation of GSoC. The purpose is to establish a mentor community within opensuse and help each other with problems etc
13:10:42 <ChrisBr> addtional we plan to have a meetup at oSC 16 in Nuremberg as we expect that a lot of the mentors and students will be there!
13:11:18 <henne> and if you think there is a need to talk about something feel free to kick off other meetings on the mailing list
13:11:56 <ChrisBr> any questions so far?
13:12:07 <KalabiYau> question about students on oSC 16
13:12:09 <RichiH> regarding mailing list: it's non-public and will always stay non-public, correct?
13:12:15 <KalabiYau> how many we will have from abroad?
13:12:15 <henne> yes
13:12:19 <ChrisBr> RichiH: yes
13:12:21 <RichiH> k
13:12:41 <henne> KalabiYau: abroad from where exactly? :-)
13:12:52 <KalabiYau> not from EU
13:12:59 <mssola> my student is from brazil
13:13:23 <ChrisBr> KalabiYau: we don't know yet! We advised them to apply for TSP. TSP will announce around end of May who they can fund
13:13:33 <KalabiYau> got it, thanks
13:13:50 <ChrisBr> but this is independent from GSoC. Beeing a GSoC student does not mean that TSP will fund you ;)
13:14:03 <KalabiYau> that's clear
13:14:15 <ChrisBr> however, awafaa is aware that some students applied for TSP and tries to fund a few of them ...
13:14:21 <henne> but it means they will give you some kind of prio...
13:14:27 <ChrisBr> henne: exactly
13:14:43 <ChrisBr> ( awafaa is currently head of TSP)
13:15:04 <KalabiYau> in a funny hat as usual, I guess
13:15:20 <henne> hey, if he wears a hat it's a start
13:15:27 * henne shudders
13:15:51 <ChrisBr> more questions?
13:16:19 <RichiH> only if we can keep a tighter schedule while in meeting ;)
13:16:41 <ChrisBr> okay, next topic then
13:16:48 <ChrisBr> #topic Blogging / Marketing
13:16:56 <ChrisBr> We expect at least three blog posts of the students
13:17:01 <ChrisBr> Beginning blog post (by June 1), one midterm blog post (by July 10) and final blog post (by August 23)
13:17:17 <ChrisBr> Doug created a nice guideline for us
13:17:18 <ChrisBr> Guideline: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LjG0lzDDDzpn9N-axMvfJFbwQlE5Z09NfcDvWCDhccw/edit?usp=sharing
13:17:38 <ChrisBr> Students should have their own blog, I'll write a guideline after the meeting to the students and we will redistribute it on news.o.o
13:17:48 <ChrisBr> We expect this as mandatory for the students
13:18:24 <henne> this is about marketing we can do for openSUSE and for the projects
13:18:46 <henne> and of course for students and mentors
13:19:00 <ChrisBr> Yes, please also blog as mentors :)
13:19:32 * ancorgs will probably use the YaST team blog for that
13:19:40 <henne> this is independent of any "reporting" the students have to do
13:19:57 <henne> this will be another topic later in this meeting :-)
13:20:51 <ChrisBr> questions?
13:22:24 <ChrisBr> next topic
13:22:29 <ChrisBr> #topic Reporting
13:22:49 <ChrisBr> We expect that you have regular contact with your student!
13:23:19 <ChrisBr> That means we expect e.g. daily standups and longer discussions at least once a week
13:23:32 <ChrisBr> Also that you track the progress in eg a trello board
13:23:43 <KalabiYau> ^ fair point
13:24:10 <ChrisBr> If you encounter problems, please contact me or henne asap
13:24:17 <mssola> ChrisBr: it's a bit hard for me to do daily standup, considering the differences on timezones :)
13:24:26 <henne> problems with student responsiveness that is
13:25:02 <ChrisBr> mssola: right! However, you can eg write daily short mail update etc
13:25:03 <henne> mssola: if you can't make it daily meet as often as possible
13:25:11 <mssola> sure
13:25:20 <henne> and if it can't be a meeting it can be a mail
13:25:32 <ancorgs> mssola: or us it as an excuse to spend summer in Brazil
13:25:34 <ChrisBr> We see communication as one the most important parts of GSoC
13:25:44 <mssola> ancorgs: haha, good idea :P
13:25:44 <ancorgs> *use it
13:26:13 <RichiH> to make sure: is this expected of fosdem as well? and does that mean student -> mentors, mentors -> student, or both?
13:26:24 <henne> however you do it. it's just very important that you set up regular milestones in your plan that get reviewed and celebrated by you and your mentee.
13:26:33 <mssola> agreed
13:26:54 <henne> as we believe that talking as often as you can is what builds the relationship and   bonding with your mentee.
13:27:09 <RichiH> or, to phrase it differently: i would be surprised if the student will be able to work on osem every single day, so that frequency seems to be the better way to judge update frequency
13:27:15 <henne> and that is essentially what GSoC is all about. forming a relationship with your student
13:27:22 <RichiH> (barring actual problems like "he disappeared", of course)
13:27:26 <ChrisBr> also, your student has not much experience, they maybe fear to contact you too often and annoy you!
13:27:34 <henne> RichiH: GSoC is supposed to be a full-time job
13:27:37 <differentreality> RichiH: from my personal experience as a student of gsoc, I did work every day on the project
13:27:43 <RichiH> ok
13:27:46 <mssola> same here
13:28:22 <ChrisBr> I agree with differentreality and mssola! This is also stated in all GSoC FAQ of fosdem! Students should expect to work 40 hours/week on their project
13:28:46 <RichiH> there were bits in the mentee docs that said "if you are aware for some time, don't sweat it but communicate", which is the reason i asked in the first place
13:29:06 <ChrisBr> Having some period of time (university course etc) where they're not able to focus full time on gsoc is fine, but they have to communicate that!
13:29:09 <RichiH> but that was then obviously referring to being ill or something
13:29:18 <RichiH> kk
13:29:19 <henne> yeah
13:29:28 <ChrisBr> RichiH: correct! That's what I mentioned!
13:29:59 <henne> https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/faq#how_much_time_does_gsoc_participation_take
13:30:00 <RichiH> s/aware/away/, but you prolly guessed as much
13:30:05 <ChrisBr> There are certainly times where they can't focus full time on GSoC! As long as they communicate it with the mentor and it's just a short period of time it's fine
13:30:49 <henne> anyway. back to the topic. please make sure you track your students progress
13:31:06 <ChrisBr> and communicate, communicate, communicate!
13:31:12 <ChrisBr> questions?
13:32:37 <henne> how are you guys feeling on having your student send reports to the openSUSE community?
13:32:56 <henne> in previous years we had them send weekly mail to opensuse-project
13:33:10 <henne> I'm not very clear on the usefulness of those mails
13:33:47 <mssola> henne: honestly I'd just tell him to send emails on a monthly basis or something like that
13:33:55 <ancorgs> henne: you mean usefulness for the students or for the community?
13:34:01 <henne> ancorgs: both
13:34:09 <RichiH> if they are short and mostly links to other resources, they would create a nice form of positive pressure; at a set frequency
13:34:32 * RichiH sees that as a benefit the mentee, not the community at large, mind
13:34:33 <differentreality> I am not a big fan of the whole weekly reports / emails
13:34:43 <imobach> I think that publishing in a blog is enough
13:34:48 <mssola> imobach: +1
13:34:56 <ChrisBr> imobach: +1
13:35:12 <ChrisBr> mssola: monthly basis == almost blogging
13:35:14 <ancorgs> but more often that three times in the whole project
13:35:28 <imobach> ancorgs: yes
13:35:33 <mssola> ChrisBr: yeah, I was just thinking out loud :)
13:35:41 <henne> the 3 blogs we were talking about earlier are for news.opensuse.org
13:35:42 <ChrisBr> than we can change the blogging guideline to blogging once a month?
13:36:16 <henne> you can call them 'reporting' but this is more like marketing fufu. not so much technical
13:36:50 <henne> this is for the openSUSE project. not the individual projects the people work on like YaST or OSEM
13:37:26 <henne> I also think that "work report" style mails don't have much value for the students or for the community
13:38:03 <henne> I would rather have my student blog on http://osem.io when we have finished some important milestone
13:38:25 <imobach> henne: it makes sense
13:38:38 <ChrisBr> okay, to sum up:
13:38:55 <ChrisBr> the initial 3 blog posts are for news.o.o
13:38:56 <ancorgs> if you keep track in a (almost) daily basis with trello or something similar
13:38:58 <differentreality> +1 henne, I like that too. That way we can end up with useful information about features and not just a repetition of I did this, and I will do that.
13:39:08 <ancorgs> reporting as such shouldn't be needed
13:39:17 <ChrisBr> plus once a month a blog post on their own blog?
13:39:26 <RichiH> yah, i think i also prefer henne's suggestion
13:39:45 <henne> at least monthly sounds fair to me
13:40:30 <ChrisBr> everyone agrees?
13:40:37 <henne> at least monthly and a notification to gsoc-mentors@opensuse.org so Chris and I can pick it up
13:40:45 <henne> and spread it further
13:40:52 <ChrisBr> henne good idea
13:41:14 <mssola> to sum it up: monthly on their own blogs and then we ping you
13:41:18 <mssola> is that right ?
13:41:20 <ChrisBr> yep
13:41:39 <ChrisBr> plus the three blog posts for news.o.o we mentioned at the beginning of the meeting
13:41:45 <henne> yes
13:42:01 <mssola> ah ok
13:42:20 <mssola> will they have accounts to blog there, or how things would go ?
13:42:52 <ChrisBr> henne, doug or I will do that
13:43:00 <differentreality> they can just email us the blog post for news ?
13:43:09 <ChrisBr> they would send it to us and we will put it on news.o.o
13:43:14 <mssola> ah ok
13:43:17 <mssola> cool
13:43:19 <henne> I can also create author accounts there
13:43:26 <ChrisBr> then we can also take care that we don't flood news ;)
13:43:38 <henne> but sending us something is the prerequisite
13:43:53 <RichiH> no need to tie that down right now, though
13:43:56 <mssola> got it
13:44:48 <ChrisBr> questions?
13:44:59 <ChrisBr> I'll sum it up for a follow up mail!
13:45:32 <ChrisBr> Next topic would be oSC but we already spoke about it at the beginning of the meeting so I think we can skip it!
13:46:03 <ChrisBr> Or has anyone more questions regarding GSoC and oSC16 in Nuremberg?
13:46:42 <henne> please encourage your student to go
13:46:46 <henne> and please come yourself :-)
13:47:07 <ChrisBr> hehe, yeah :) oSC is fun :)
13:47:13 <henne> it will be awesome to meet each other and kick off more good mentoring things
13:47:51 <ChrisBr> okay, next topic
13:47:55 <ChrisBr> # Timetable
13:48:04 <ChrisBr> We're almost at the end of community bondig period
13:48:19 <ChrisBr> On 23 May Coding period begins
13:48:31 <ChrisBr> That means students officially start coding on their project!
13:48:52 <ChrisBr> If you haven't, please have a look at our openSUSE mentoring guidelines: http://101.opensuse.org/
13:49:02 <henne> which also means you should have a plan of what they should do
13:49:49 <henne> please remember that this is about the students
13:49:59 <ChrisBr> Next milestone is 20 June - 27 June: Midterm evaluations
13:50:46 <ChrisBr> It's mandatory to fill out the midterm evaluations, otherwise your student will fail and openSUSE will lose a slot for the mentor summit
13:50:47 <henne> about their needs. not yours or the projects needs. so come up with a plan that make them free software developers at the end of GSoC
13:52:10 <henne> Start by checking the basics with them. Do they know how to operate github? Is their development environment set up?
13:52:41 <henne> do they know the git basics?
13:52:45 <henne> etc. etc.
13:53:30 <henne> also explain to them how your community works
13:54:06 <henne> GSoC is as much about behavior in a community, knowing what you want, and the ability to convey this to others as it   is about pointers, gcc macros and git command line options.
13:54:53 <henne> make sure to check that they know these things that you might take for granted
13:55:33 <henne> and make sure that you develop the students competence AND character
13:56:49 <henne> if you clear this up at the beginning I'm sure it's way easier to be successful at the mid-term weed out :-)
13:57:58 <ChrisBr> thanks henne
13:58:01 <ChrisBr> any more questions?
13:59:05 <ChrisBr> okay, then I'll close the meeting! If you have more questions, feel free to write to the gsoc-mentors mailinglist or to me or henne
13:59:11 <henne> you can find everything that Chris, Cornelius and I think makes a good mentor here:  http://101.opensuse.org/#mentor
13:59:22 <ChrisBr> thanks everyone for participating!
13:59:22 <hernansp> Thanks for all the info!
13:59:27 <differentreality> thank you
13:59:30 <RichiH> thanks
13:59:38 <henne> And remember to have a lot of fun....
13:59:39 <KalabiYau> ciao
13:59:40 <henne> :-)
13:59:44 <ancorgs> thanks
13:59:48 <ancorgs> see you
13:59:50 <ChrisBr> cya
13:59:53 <imobach> thanks!
13:59:53 <ChrisBr> #endmeeting