15:01:57 #startmeeting openSUSE Project meeting 15:01:57 Meeting started Wed Aug 7 15:01:57 2013 UTC. The chair is vuntz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:01:57 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:03 hey hey hey 15:02:16 Ilmehtar, Funkypenguin: here? 15:02:26 robjo said on the list he wouldn't be able to join 15:02:35 and who else is here? :-) 15:05:15 vuntz: I'm here 15:05:41 vuntz: I'm doing a horrible nasty upgrade of a terrible ugly windows based .NET application that I'd rather put out of its misery than touch 15:05:43 vuntz: but i'm here.. 15:05:53 heh 15:05:55 anybody else? 15:06:12 if it's just Ilmehtar and me, then we might as well just watch Ilmehtar's upgrade fail :-) 15:06:18 :) 15:06:28 live stream? 15:06:45 vuntz: we can review and clear one Action Item - I finally updated -project on the Local Coodinator programme, we're having a meeting next Tuesday 15:06:56 DimStar: banned on YouTube - too much swearing 15:07:27 Ilmehtar: yay! 15:08:05 we have an item on the agenda (openSUSE on raspberry pi) 15:08:16 but I'm not sure there's anyone to discuss this item? 15:08:34 vuntz: I was the one to put it on the agenda 15:08:57 it sucks to use raspbian instead of opensuse 15:09:06 hey madanyang 15:09:08 so let's discuss this 15:09:13 #topic openSUSE on raspberry pi 15:09:31 madanyang: want to give a quick intro on the topic? 15:09:39 #info 15:10:03 well the whole situation is on the mailing-list of the opensuse-arm 15:10:49 it starts with http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html 15:10:54 can you summerise it? 15:11:18 the key is http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-08/msg00000.html 15:11:54 andrew wafaa says the priority is armv7 since it is future 15:12:15 but the real truth of the matter is raspi is cheap and has 1.5 millon sold out 15:12:25 with no opensuse running on it 15:12:48 ok maybe exagration but not many 15:13:24 if raspi is aiming youngsters and those who want to stay young we as opensuse are not taking part 15:13:40 so this is a nutshell summary 15:15:06 I quickly read the thread, and it seems to me that the issue is simply that nobody is working on armv6 15:15:41 vuntz the obs has no running armv6 15:16:16 see https://build.opensuse.org/monitor 15:16:17 madanyang: I see no reply to http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-08/msg00008.html 15:18:13 but if there is no running armv6 it is somehow related to obs and probably only adrian can answer 15:20:53 madanyang: but in http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html there was "all packages build in OBS are for ARM6" 15:21:14 so it sounds like we can build packages from armv6 15:21:16 madanyang: I see both an armv6 and armv5 scheduler and stats that suggest packages are getting built. if I recall correctly, it's possible to build armv6 packages on OBS using the QEMU method, pretty sure I remember Adrian talking about that at some point 15:22:04 madanyang: OBS might not have armv6 hardware, that would explain why you dont see it in the list of builders 15:22:38 Ilmehtar: shouldn't qemu instances be visible also 15:23:12 madanyang: but my understanding is a proper 'port' of openSUSE to a new architecture requires a lot more than just 'can obs build it'? I know the ARM team have to put a lot of love and attention into getting hardware/drivers/etc all working - and from Andy's mail I think that's the biggest roadblock - it's lots of work, and they want to focus on newer 15:23:12 architectures 15:23:24 vuntz: - http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html "all packages build in OBS are for ARM6, but can't be used, as I have no image 15:23:24 to start from." 15:24:10 madanyang: that doesn't sound like an OBS limitation 15:24:23 Ilmehtar: so fine to loose a potential market with affordable hardware sorry that is bad business 15:24:31 it sounds to me that we simply need someone to build such an image :/ 15:25:37 and this is an area where we can only rely on what people want to do 15:25:40 vuntz: I'll have a look to build a jeos-jeos image (double jeos is intended) 15:26:40 madanyang: great :) 15:27:20 #info current efforts of ARM team are targetted at ARMv7+ 15:27:23 I will blog it through lizards, but I have 2 weeks before holidays so I am a bit tight 15:27:37 #info unfortunately, Raspberry Pi is ARMv6 15:27:49 #info OBS is able to build for ARMv6 (via qemu) 15:28:03 vuntz: how about donating some raspis ? 15:28:25 #info it seems the only missing piece is somebody working on a base image 15:28:50 madanyang: this could work, but we still need to find somebody who would be willing to do the work 15:28:58 madanyang: I would suggest the idea on the arm mailing list 15:29:29 and if people say "I'm happy to step up if I get the hardware", then donation would be useful 15:29:42 OMG one more to join/follow/read/post 15:30:16 in the mean time is there any reason that arm mailing list is not in news.gmane.org 15:31:15 I think it's simply because someone needs to register it in gmane.org 15:31:20 I believe anyone can do that 15:31:31 (although I never did it myself, so not sure how to do it :-)) 15:31:40 a quick google suggests - http://gmane.org/add.php 15:33:36 ok 15:33:43 any other topic? 15:33:56 Ilmehtar: Yes but isn't there a team/person to these simple things 15:34:45 I am not expecting suse people to do it but isn't an opensuse team not there like forums 15:35:43 hmm? there's dozens of services like gmane, heck, we even have our own with lists.opensuse.org, I dont think it would be a productive use of someones time to go around making sure we're registered on every single one of them 15:36:10 especially as anyone who does want it, can request it themselves .. if you want to make sure all the opensuse mailing lists are on gmane, please go ahead :) 15:37:15 Ok will do 15:37:53 thank you 15:39:07 no other topic? 15:39:25 vuntz: sorry im here now 15:39:43 Funkypenguin: heh, want to comment on the chat above? 15:40:26 just catching up on the backlog 15:41:09 Ilmehtar: registration done 15:41:13 ok... 15:41:28 re the RaspberryPi topic: 15:41:45 there is work already underway to support it 15:42:33 we used to have ARMv5 which was able to run on the Pi, but as the Pi is the only device people were concerned about we shelved v5 in favour for the better optimised v6 15:43:00 problem as I mentioned in the thread is that we are very constrained with resources (read people) 15:43:56 as far as the core distro is concerned, v7 and above are the target architectures - the Pi is the only v6 board available and there are many more v7 devices 15:44:13 (and prices are dropping constantly) 15:45:26 if people want Pi support they will unfortunately have to step up and help out, we just cant do it all - the few people we have are struggling as it is 15:46:08 having Pi hardware won't really help much as it doesn't support KVM/Xen and as such can't be used in the OBS, only qemu 15:46:31 it is mostly people helping fix the base image and also fix package breakages 15:46:55 Funkypenguin: but donating the hardware to some people might motivate them? 15:47:31 ah, donating hardware to people wanting to help could indeed be beneficial 15:47:47 my concern is making sure that those people actually do the work 15:47:53 im all for it in theory 15:47:53 right 15:48:30 Funkypenguin: which devel repo to be branched to fix problems 15:49:26 madanyang: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/openSUSE:Factory:ARM is the correct repo to use 15:49:44 but as vuntz mentioned we need to get the bootstrap complete 15:51:18 the best thing to do is to ask either on irc or mailing list for how best to help out with that 15:52:43 one thing to note is that you may need to wait for a response 15:53:13 does anyone else have any comments on this topic? 15:53:36 don't get me wrong im not saying we shouldn't support the Pi, just that it isn't a focus for us 15:54:19 Funkypenguin: on the openSUSE:Factory:Arm when I look there is standard/armv6l and then there is armv6l 15:54:28 it is effectively the same issue that many other projects have of concentrating on current and future architectures rather than old one 15:56:04 madanyang: use armv6hl 15:56:08 okay 15:56:17 Funkypenguin: and until the armv6l has the backlog cleared there is not much to do, or ? 15:56:31 pretty much 15:57:15 unfortunately we're running out of dylithium crytals for the OBS, so if we can find some more it's a waiting game 15:57:45 as we're nearing the end of the hour: is there any other quick topic people would like to discuss? 15:57:53 otherwise, we're done and arm discussion can go on :-) 15:58:19 vuntz: Thanks 15:58:49 nothing, so we're done :-) 15:58:53 thanks everyone! 15:58:56 #endmeeting