15:01:57 <vuntz> #startmeeting openSUSE Project meeting
15:01:57 <bugbot> Meeting started Wed Aug  7 15:01:57 2013 UTC.  The chair is vuntz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:57 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:03 <vuntz> hey hey hey
15:02:16 <vuntz> Ilmehtar, Funkypenguin: here?
15:02:26 <vuntz> robjo said on the list he wouldn't be able to join
15:02:35 <vuntz> and who else is here? :-)
15:05:15 <Ilmehtar> vuntz: I'm here
15:05:41 <Ilmehtar> vuntz: I'm doing a horrible nasty upgrade of a terrible ugly windows based .NET application that I'd rather put out of its misery than touch
15:05:43 <Ilmehtar> vuntz: but i'm here..
15:05:53 <vuntz> heh
15:05:55 <vuntz> anybody else?
15:06:12 <vuntz> if it's just Ilmehtar and me, then we might as well just watch Ilmehtar's upgrade fail :-)
15:06:18 <DimStar> :)
15:06:28 <DimStar> live stream?
15:06:45 <Ilmehtar> vuntz: we can review and clear one Action Item - I finally updated -project on the Local Coodinator programme, we're having a meeting next Tuesday
15:06:56 <Ilmehtar> DimStar: banned on YouTube - too much swearing
15:07:27 <vuntz> Ilmehtar: yay!
15:08:05 <vuntz> we have an item on the agenda (openSUSE on raspberry pi)
15:08:16 <vuntz> but I'm not sure there's anyone to discuss this item?
15:08:34 <madanyang> vuntz: I was the one to put it on the agenda
15:08:57 <madanyang> it sucks to use raspbian instead of opensuse
15:09:06 <vuntz> hey madanyang
15:09:08 <vuntz> so let's discuss this
15:09:13 <vuntz> #topic openSUSE on raspberry pi
15:09:31 <vuntz> madanyang: want to give a quick intro on the topic?
15:09:39 <andy0023> #info
15:10:03 <madanyang> well the whole situation is on the mailing-list of the opensuse-arm
15:10:49 <madanyang> it starts with http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html
15:10:54 <Ilmehtar> can you summerise it?
15:11:18 <madanyang> the key is http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-08/msg00000.html
15:11:54 <madanyang> andrew wafaa says the priority is armv7 since it is future
15:12:15 <madanyang> but the real truth of the matter is raspi is cheap and has 1.5 millon sold out
15:12:25 <madanyang> with no opensuse running on it
15:12:48 <madanyang> ok maybe exagration but not many
15:13:24 <madanyang> if raspi is aiming youngsters and those who want to stay young we as opensuse are not taking part
15:13:40 <madanyang> so this is a nutshell summary
15:15:06 <vuntz> I quickly read the thread, and it seems to me that the issue is simply that nobody is working on armv6
15:15:41 <madanyang> vuntz the obs has no running armv6
15:16:16 <madanyang> see https://build.opensuse.org/monitor
15:16:17 <vuntz> madanyang: I see no reply to http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-08/msg00008.html
15:18:13 <madanyang> but if there is no running armv6 it is somehow related to obs and probably only adrian can answer
15:20:53 <vuntz> madanyang: but in http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html there was "all packages build in OBS are for ARM6"
15:21:14 <vuntz> so it sounds like we can build packages from armv6
15:21:16 <Ilmehtar> madanyang: I see both an armv6 and armv5 scheduler and stats that suggest packages are getting built. if I recall correctly, it's possible to build armv6 packages on OBS using the QEMU method, pretty sure I remember Adrian talking about that at some point
15:22:04 <Ilmehtar> madanyang: OBS might not have armv6 hardware, that would explain why you dont see it in the list of builders
15:22:38 <madanyang> Ilmehtar: shouldn't qemu instances be visible also
15:23:12 <Ilmehtar> madanyang: but my understanding is a proper 'port' of openSUSE to a new architecture requires a lot more than just 'can obs build it'? I know the ARM team have to put a lot of love and attention into getting hardware/drivers/etc all working - and from Andy's mail I think that's the biggest roadblock - it's lots of work, and they want to focus on newer
15:23:12 <Ilmehtar> architectures
15:23:24 <madanyang> vuntz: - http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2013-07/msg00050.html "all packages build in OBS are for ARM6, but can't be used, as I have no image
15:23:24 <madanyang> to start from."
15:24:10 <vuntz> madanyang: that doesn't sound like an OBS limitation
15:24:23 <madanyang> Ilmehtar: so fine to loose a potential market with affordable hardware sorry that is bad business
15:24:31 <vuntz> it sounds to me that we simply need someone to build such an image :/
15:25:37 <vuntz> and this is an area where we can only rely on what people want to do
15:25:40 <madanyang> vuntz: I'll have a look to build a jeos-jeos image (double jeos is intended)
15:26:40 <Ilmehtar> madanyang: great :)
15:27:20 <vuntz> #info current efforts of ARM team are targetted at ARMv7+
15:27:23 <madanyang> I will blog it through lizards, but I have 2 weeks before holidays so I am a bit tight
15:27:37 <vuntz> #info unfortunately, Raspberry Pi is ARMv6
15:27:49 <vuntz> #info OBS is able to build for ARMv6 (via qemu)
15:28:03 <madanyang> vuntz: how about donating some raspis ?
15:28:25 <vuntz> #info it seems the only missing piece is somebody working on a base image
15:28:50 <vuntz> madanyang: this could work, but we still need to find somebody who would be willing to do the work
15:28:58 <vuntz> madanyang: I would suggest the idea on the arm mailing list
15:29:29 <vuntz> and if people say "I'm happy to step up if I get the hardware", then donation would be useful
15:29:42 <madanyang> OMG one more to join/follow/read/post
15:30:16 <madanyang> in the mean time is there any reason that arm mailing list is not in news.gmane.org
15:31:15 <vuntz> I think it's simply because someone needs to register it in gmane.org
15:31:20 <vuntz> I believe anyone can do that
15:31:31 <vuntz> (although I never did it myself, so not sure how to do it :-))
15:31:40 <Ilmehtar> a quick google suggests - http://gmane.org/add.php
15:33:36 <vuntz> ok
15:33:43 <vuntz> any other topic?
15:33:56 <madanyang> Ilmehtar: Yes but isn't there a team/person to these simple things
15:34:45 <madanyang> I am not expecting suse people to do it but isn't an opensuse team not there like forums
15:35:43 <Ilmehtar> hmm? there's dozens of services like gmane, heck, we even have our own with lists.opensuse.org, I dont think it would be a productive use of someones time to go around making sure we're registered on every single one of them
15:36:10 <Ilmehtar> especially as anyone who does want it, can request it themselves .. if you want to make sure all the opensuse mailing lists are on gmane, please go ahead :)
15:37:15 <madanyang> Ok will do
15:37:53 <Ilmehtar> thank you
15:39:07 <vuntz> no other topic?
15:39:25 <Funkypenguin> vuntz: sorry im here now
15:39:43 <vuntz> Funkypenguin: heh, want to comment on the chat above?
15:40:26 <Funkypenguin> just catching up on the backlog
15:41:09 <madanyang> Ilmehtar: registration done
15:41:13 <Funkypenguin> ok...
15:41:28 <Funkypenguin> re the RaspberryPi topic:
15:41:45 <Funkypenguin> there is work already underway to support it
15:42:33 <Funkypenguin> we used to have ARMv5 which was able to run on the Pi, but as the Pi is the only device people were concerned about we shelved v5 in favour for the better optimised v6
15:43:00 <Funkypenguin> problem as I mentioned in the thread is that we are very constrained with resources (read people)
15:43:56 <Funkypenguin> as far as the core distro is concerned, v7 and above are the target architectures - the Pi is the only v6 board available and there are many more v7 devices
15:44:13 <Funkypenguin> (and prices are dropping constantly)
15:45:26 <Funkypenguin> if people want Pi support they will unfortunately have to step up and help out, we just cant do it all - the few people we have are struggling as it is
15:46:08 <Funkypenguin> having Pi hardware won't really help much as it doesn't support KVM/Xen and as such can't be used in the OBS, only qemu
15:46:31 <Funkypenguin> it is mostly people helping fix the base image and also fix package breakages
15:46:55 <vuntz> Funkypenguin: but donating the hardware to some people might motivate them?
15:47:31 <Funkypenguin> ah, donating hardware to people wanting to help could indeed be beneficial
15:47:47 <Funkypenguin> my concern is making sure that those people actually do the work
15:47:53 <Funkypenguin> im all for it in theory
15:47:53 <vuntz> right
15:48:30 <madanyang> Funkypenguin: which devel repo to be branched to fix problems
15:49:26 <Funkypenguin> madanyang: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/openSUSE:Factory:ARM is the correct repo to use
15:49:44 <Funkypenguin> but as vuntz mentioned we need to get the bootstrap complete
15:51:18 <Funkypenguin> the best thing to do is to ask either on irc or mailing list for how best to help out with that
15:52:43 <Funkypenguin> one thing to note is that you may need to wait for a response
15:53:13 <Funkypenguin> does anyone else have any comments on this topic?
15:53:36 <Funkypenguin> don't get me wrong im not saying we shouldn't support the Pi, just that it isn't a focus for us
15:54:19 <madanyang> Funkypenguin: on the openSUSE:Factory:Arm when I look there is standard/armv6l and then there is armv6l
15:54:28 <Funkypenguin> it is effectively the same issue that many other projects have of concentrating on current and future architectures rather than old one
15:56:04 <Funkypenguin> madanyang: use armv6hl
15:56:08 <vuntz> okay
15:56:17 <madanyang> Funkypenguin: and until the armv6l has the backlog cleared there is not much to do, or ?
15:56:31 <Funkypenguin> pretty much
15:57:15 <Funkypenguin> unfortunately we're running out of dylithium crytals for the OBS, so if we can find some more it's a waiting game
15:57:45 <vuntz> as we're nearing the end of the hour: is there any other quick topic people would like to discuss?
15:57:53 <vuntz> otherwise, we're done and arm discussion can go on :-)
15:58:19 <madanyang> vuntz: Thanks
15:58:49 <vuntz> nothing, so we're done :-)
15:58:53 <vuntz> thanks everyone!
15:58:56 <vuntz> #endmeeting