15:00:06 #startmeeting openSUSE project 15:00:06 Meeting started Wed May 15 15:00:06 2013 UTC. The chair is vuntz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:06 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:31 so so so, who's here for the meeting? 15:00:32 * manugupt1 is right on time :) 15:00:38 hey manugupt1! 15:00:41 * warlordfff here too 15:00:44 * differentreality me 15:00:44 hey vuntz :) 15:01:07 robjo, FunkyPenguin, tittiatcoke, wstephenson__, Ilmehtar: any of you here? 15:01:19 mostly 15:01:30 about 60% here 15:01:34 * victorhck listening... 15:01:36 (at the computer, but the office is busy) 15:02:08 the agenda for today is available at https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting 15:02:16 I can see the following topics: 15:02:19 1) GSoC Status 15:02:25 2) oSC13 progress/issues 15:02:31 3) New Ideas & initiatives for the project? 15:02:38 4) Questions 15:02:45 any other topic? 15:02:55 * zimba12 is here to represent owncloud for GSoC 15:03:30 vuntz: zimba12 Could u give me 2 minutes please I will be afk 15:03:38 sure 15:03:54 vuntz: till then you can discuss oSC13 15:04:09 usually, we start with action items but I don't see any in the list 15:04:21 manugupt1: sure 15:04:25 warlordfff, differentreality: want to start with oSC13? 15:04:35 well no problem here 15:04:37 manugupt1: actually i need 5 mins :) 15:04:37 #topic oSC13 progress/issues 15:04:40 now 15:04:48 zimba12: great then :) 15:04:53 a small report 15:05:14 until now we are doing quite well but we need more help 15:05:31 epsecially when it comes to press 15:05:36 is jospoortvliet around? 15:05:41 anyway 15:05:57 we also need the board to be more supportive 15:05:58 to get the word out? Or to invite press people at the event? 15:06:04 both 15:06:16 we have the word out pretty well 15:06:26 but we definattelly can do it better 15:06:39 #info organization is doing rather well 15:06:50 #info help is still needed, though 15:06:58 warlordfff: I had an issue trying to use the 'openSUSE' hotel booking code mentioned on http://conference.opensuse.org/#location for any hotel apart from Nea Metropolis 15:07:06 so basically I have some questions for you vuntz 15:07:10 warlordfff: sure 15:07:23 Ilmehtar: can we talk about this later? 15:07:28 so 15:07:32 #info one area for help: press (to get the word out, and to invite press people to the event) 15:07:34 warlordfff: sure 15:08:06 we did not saw any posts or anything related to the oSC13 comming from the board side 15:08:12 why is that 15:08:15 ? 15:08:23 I mean this is a communitty thing 15:08:39 also no help came from there 15:08:55 not even a single comment or a task taken in Trello 15:09:20 don't get me wrong but I find this not good 15:09:21 is your expectation that the board actively contributes to the organization? 15:09:29 of course 15:09:42 vuntz: here 15:09:52 I thought that this was something that was expected 15:10:21 but unfortunatelly nothing 15:10:36 I mean not even a tweet from personal accounts 15:10:45 fwiw, we're talkign about https://trello.com/osc13 15:10:47 how do you see this? 15:10:53 yeap 15:11:14 we would like your opinion on this 15:11:17 warlordfff: I think that's a little unfair. The role of the board is to facilitate communication within the community, facilitate decision making, help resolve contacts, etc. We're not able to involve ourselves in the day-to-day operation every single part of the project 15:11:32 a day to day ok 15:11:39 but not even once? 15:11:50 I mean people look at the board 15:11:57 right? 15:12:10 the feedback I got from people is 15:12:18 how come the board is not there 15:12:48 interesting, I think the expectations are not the same on the two sides 15:13:02 that is why I sent an e-mail 15:13:18 but not a single board member answered 15:13:28 warlordfff: robjo did reply 15:13:37 ok 15:13:42 asking "What can we do?" 15:14:01 ok maybe "nothing" was a strong word 15:14:32 what Kostas means is that we would like a bit more help - that can be actually doing tasks, or coordinating them so that another member can do them properly or helping in decision making as Ilmehtar said 15:14:56 anyway 15:15:05 I have to apologize, have a customer issue I am chasing and cannot concentrate on the meeting. If there is anything needed from me please ping me 15:15:11 I am not bringing this up to argue 15:15:15 sure 15:15:27 I think what might be missing is having someone from the board closely following this topic 15:15:32 I just want to know if you can do something to help 15:15:37 vuntz: btw 99% of tasks are on trello, I am making sure of it 15:15:38 yeap 15:15:56 and we could use the expertise and experience on some of them from people like board members 15:16:07 but if it helps we can send you some more specific tasks 15:16:10 differentreality: but 99% of the tasks don't require a board member, but anybody (and that could be a board member, I don't disagree) 15:16:43 that's true, but still we would like to see some more active support of the board :) 15:16:52 understood 15:17:07 if the board comes, for sure othes will follow too 15:17:17 others 15:17:34 it would be inspirational and motivating to a lot of people 15:17:48 +1 warlordfff 15:17:53 also 15:17:58 I think that opinion misrepresents the role of the board 15:18:11 ok, why? 15:18:19 I mean 15:18:34 the board are people important for the community 15:18:39 Can I say something? 15:18:49 manugupt1: no need to ask :-) 15:18:50 that means that are people who can give a better motivation 15:19:03 if we follow your opinion to your logical community, then it would require the board to be involved in every aspect of the projects work 15:19:06 manugupt1: please 15:19:08 I mean Board can give a public face to oSC and congratulate on news 15:19:08 say 15:19:25 That will mean Board is helping a bit and also people perceive the Board is interested 15:19:49 well it is not congratulations that we need right now, but this is also an idea 15:19:52 I think the problem is people do not perceive Board not being helpful but dont realise that they too have lifes and are busy in other things also 15:20:01 I believe that's infeasible for a project this size with a board of 6, who already get a fair amount of work from the boards defined role as on the wiki http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board 15:20:03 Like invitation to oSC in news :) from the board 15:20:32 Ilmehtar: I think it's relatively fair to ask that the board at least more actively follows the conf organization, as it's an important event for the community 15:20:41 Ilmehtar: A news article calling for everyone is not infeasible I believe but helping out in each and everything is surely 15:20:47 yeah... or board members could extend this invitation to oSC in their social media accounts (btw we have the messages ready in trello, people (any people) just need to copy paste them ;) ) 15:21:00 the Project have a team to provide news and marketing, we have a team to organise the conference, we have teams doing KDE, GNOME, what have you, I think its unfair to expect the Board the board to be an componant of all these activities of the project 15:21:01 Ilmehtar: but I agree it's hard to have the board be more involved in general 15:21:27 Ilmehtar: I thing you are a bit wrong here 15:21:52 I mean making a tweet is not that time consuming 15:22:05 Ilmehtar: not in general but once is ok :) and an official invite from the board is also good 15:22:24 lets clear something here 15:22:33 do you think we are wrong? 15:22:48 warlordfff: Well I think we can strike a balance 15:22:55 warlordfff: if that's all you want is the odd tweet from a board member - I'd like to direct you to the one I made on the 4th of May inviting people to sign up for travel support ;-) 15:22:56 my case exactly 15:23:08 warlordfff: I think it's wrong to expect the board to be heavily involved 15:23:12 warlordfff: I'm a little confused - I'm either doing what you're saying is expected of the board, or I think you're expecting too much from us 15:23:27 warlordfff: but I think it's right to expect the board to follow this more closely 15:23:45 vuntz: I expect exactly that 15:23:58 and actually this is what we are asking here 15:24:18 not necessary to take tasks and stuff 15:24:23 are there still conf team meetings? On irc or by phone? 15:24:32 although it would be nice if you have some time 15:24:50 well we resolve everything in trello 15:25:04 so far its going well 15:25:10 well, trello is good for tracking tasks, but it's pretty bad for communication :-) 15:25:26 I agree on that 15:25:42 but so far it works better than expected 15:26:18 anyway 15:26:26 would having some phone chat, or irc chat with a board member (or more) every week or every two weeks help? 15:26:30 we have some specific things to ask 15:26:49 or would you prefer some other ways to have the board follow the work? 15:26:54 (like, just trello) 15:27:00 we need some people to get contacted by you 15:27:17 and we need some press releases on your side 15:27:52 we will send you a precise mail with some tasks that you might be able to do it, how does that sound? 15:28:00 sure, a mail is fine 15:28:07 ok 15:28:21 (fwiw, I would expect the marketing team to write press releases, but well, let's discuss that in the mail) 15:28:34 well I expected that too 15:28:46 and Jos made one or two to be honest 15:28:52 a lot of people worked 15:28:55 warlordfff: I'll try to get all this discussed in the next board meeting (next monday) 15:29:05 this would be perfect 15:29:08 thank you 15:29:22 #info organization team would like to see more involvement from the board 15:29:26 so lets go to the next one 15:29:42 how do you see the organization of oSC13 15:29:55 Excellent Awesome Fantabulous so far 15:29:55 I mean if you have any feedback on what we are doing 15:30:00 #info there's a balance to be found about involvement from the board (board cannot be involved everywhere, but oSC is important) 15:30:15 #action warlordfff to send mail to board about concrete tasks board can help with 15:30:33 #action vuntz to make sure the whole topic is discussed in next board meeting 15:30:44 We really value feedback but so far we don't feel we have enough 15:31:19 no news is good news? 15:31:23 please feel free to put ideas on trello or send an e-mail if you don't like or like something to be done 15:31:36 well Ilmehtar it goes both ways 15:31:55 either is good news or noone is giving a cent about it 15:31:57 I think what will help is to have the program out, but we have to wait for that :-) 15:32:31 we are very close on the program, however there is an issue (posted just today in conf ML) that needs to be resolved first and rather fast. 15:33:00 warlordfff: one question I got asked, and I don't know the answer, is when the core days will be (ie, days with talks) 15:33:02 that's how we communicate to people (speakers and attendees but first of all speakers) the fact that they will be photographed/video recorded and they will appear on live streaming 15:33:25 I have to tell you that a lot of never seen ideas are landing on this conference 15:33:26 we have some nice and most important concrete ideas on how to do it, however that involves some changes in OSEM 15:33:38 and I have no idea who will do that. Matt is not around and I am not sure if Henne can take care of that on top of everything else 15:33:52 friday-saturday and sunday 15:34:43 monday is more communitty stuff 15:34:43 meaning 'hard core' opensuse meetings and stuff 15:34:43 maybe my question is quite late but the point is... the board had not involved more deeply in the previous conferences? I mean, more involvement and participation then now. I agree with kostas that more involvment of board could be quite better. But i will understand if i got not reply on this, specially because I'm late with my question 15:34:43 Friday - Monday that is, Thursday is preparations / decorations + volunteers training at the afternoon (which is mandatory for all volunteers) + pre-registration party 15:35:24 CarlosRibeiro: I don't think the board was heavily involved in previous years, but I can't tell for sure as I wasn't on the board 15:35:27 BTW you will be surprised but the volunteer traning, it will be like nothing you ever saw :D 15:35:49 vuntz: thanks for your reply 15:36:03 last year the board was not involved at all, and the onsite presence was depressing, and it was even raised during the onsite project meeting 15:36:09 Ilmehtar: time to ask your first question again? ;-) 15:36:21 ? 15:36:30 warlordfff: I had an issue trying to use the 'openSUSE' hotel booking code mentioned on http://conference.opensuse.org/#location for any hotel apart from Nea Metropolis 15:36:41 differentreality: you? 15:37:01 Please offer me some details because so far no one ever told me about any problems and I can only assume everything works ok :/ 15:37:30 differentreality: basically, on the websites of all the other hotels I tried, i only got the discount when I went to the Nea Metropolis 15:37:54 Ilmehtar: that's because the discount does not work on the online system of the other hotels, you have to email them 15:38:28 differentreality: the website might need to be a little clearer then, as it only states "use the code "openSUSE" when registering" 15:38:37 thanks for clearing that up :) 15:38:59 yes that's true... we do give the emails but we don't explicitely say that you should contact them by email unless otherwise mentioned 15:39:06 henne: can we make that change asap plz ? 15:39:11 #info discount for hotels only work when reserving by mail (except for Nea Metropolis, where online system works too) 15:39:28 oh Saint henne is around? 15:39:30 :D 15:39:47 okay, unless there's a last comment/question, we should switch to the next topic 15:39:54 truth be told at least a couple said they will configure their online systems but that obviously hasn't happened (I check about that myself from time to time) 15:39:59 any last comment/question? 15:40:10 well we have a lot to go 15:40:20 but again please send us feedback 15:40:29 nothing else on my side 15:40:53 moving on, then 15:40:56 thanks warlordfff and differentreality! 15:40:59 #topic GSoC Status 15:41:09 manugupt1: here you go! 15:41:19 vuntz: hey 15:41:23 Ok.. Status is so far 15:41:30 Everything is good so far 15:41:51 #info everything is good so far! 15:42:01 i've got a bunch of questions 15:42:04 I am disappointed with Google we got less spots we could have done with a few more 15:42:09 tampakrap: yes please 15:42:25 so, I noticed very little activity on voting 15:42:31 manugupt1: how many slots? 15:42:34 vuntz: 12 15:42:39 #info we got 12 slots 15:42:43 manugupt1: did you try to trade for more? 15:42:44 are we going to vote on the proposals? and how about the proposals that are not opensuse ones? (syslog-ng etc) 15:43:03 or are we going to count only on an irc meeting to select the students 15:43:05 zimba12: yes.. I am talking with KDE ( they denied) I have mailed Cat @Google 15:43:43 tampakrap: that was something I wanted to discuss too.. 15:44:07 nemo: koda ping 15:44:11 pong 15:44:13 i raised the issue in the mailing list with no reply, did it even hit the mailing list? 15:44:18 the opensuse mentors one 15:44:24 tampakrap: is theo right 15:44:29 sheepluva also ping 15:44:41 yep 15:44:47 * sheepluva falls off his chair 15:44:49 tampakrap: none I can see :/ 15:44:53 I'm here I'm here 15:45:14 hey sheepluva 15:45:25 sorry for being late, I managed to lock myself out of my house and had to travel to my wife's work to get the key. You can laugh now. 15:45:27 tampakrap: are you subscribed to the list? 15:45:29 probably I was subscribed with my gmail account then instead of my opensuse one 15:45:36 * vuntz laughs at jospoortvliet 15:45:41 * vuntz gives a cookie to jospoortvliet 15:45:54 hey jospoortvliet 15:46:03 Ok.. I have a proposal ( and a problem at hand later) 15:46:06 jospoortvliet: did you call the firefighters? 15:46:16 * jospoortvliet reads up on the log 15:46:33 I think all the orgs can decide their best proposals themselves since they are the ones who can judge them the best 15:46:56 and then the next question is since we have less slots and I am hoping to get more before next week, how do we rank them 15:47:11 One of the suggestions was use a round robin method between orgs 15:47:21 ( manugupt1: I haven't gotten any mail from the mailing list since my Welcome mail actually ) 15:47:51 sheepluva: you joined bit late I guess I did not mail after that .. also this was discussed earlier koda was on the ML I believe 15:48:15 okidoki 15:48:54 I am not sure if round robin could entirely be a great idea, I would like to know vuntz opinion on it 15:48:55 manugupt1: I agree with your proposal. I looked at other orgs proposals, but I feel confident only to score the owncloud ones 15:49:32 my proposal would be to push mentors to vote on ALL the listed proposals, then we take the highest ranked ones, and we have an IRC meeting to clean up the duplicated ones if any 15:49:44 manugupt1: another easy thing would be: suborgs admin (yeah, i gave myself a title!) can ask for a number of spots 15:49:46 that would need the less real time interaction between us 15:49:53 and see if that's compatible with everyone 15:50:37 tampakrap: Actually many mentors have said they would be less comfortable with voting on all the ideas :/ thats why I am not sure 15:50:39 manugupt1: I'd go with zimba12's way first; if that just works, then it's the easiest way. If it doesn't, then you know how many slots are missing and can use another method 15:50:53 nemo: and sheepluva what is your opinion 15:50:56 what is the reason behind that? 15:51:06 manugupt1: vuntz: great. for instance, owncloud needs 2 spots, that's it 15:51:17 (ok, ideally 3, but we will be happy with 2) 15:51:33 how many suborgs do we have? 15:51:49 zimba12: I think we have 4 orgs in all 15:52:10 manugupt1: btw, asking KDE for extraspots it's not the best ideas, i was with them last year and they have a lot of proposals 15:52:22 manugupt1: I wouldn't take spots from them 15:52:43 zimba12: yes.. I mailed Cat and she asked me for the orgs which are umbrellaed under us so I guess Google forgot 15:52:51 let me see what reply do I get from her 15:53:03 good, so there is hope 15:53:17 yes I am really hoping that we get atleast 3 15:53:23 ok, owncloud wants 2 if opensuse has 12 or 3 if Cat gives more 15:53:40 how about syslog-ng? 15:53:40 nemo: sheepluva ? 15:53:48 sheepluva: they mailed me 4 I believe 15:53:55 zimba12: they mailed me 4 I believe 15:54:17 But I think we can ask them for 2 15:54:17 too many :) 15:54:25 * manugupt1 checks 15:54:39 preference is 4 15:55:01 zimba12: ideally if we have 12 now I think 2+2+2+6 15:55:07 for AppArmor, 1 slot would be nice 15:55:14 cboltz: yes :) 15:55:21 and if we get upto 15 15:55:24 manugupt1: sorry. was answering hedgewars bugs :) 15:55:32 manugupt1: I agree we should select the ones we'd like you guys to vote on 15:55:53 nemo: are you hedgewars? 15:56:01 nemo: Question here is how many slots would hedgewars want 15:56:02 manugupt1: I don't mind the idea of voting on slot allocation although obviously all orgs would request at least a couple of slots for theirs ;) 15:56:18 2+2+2+6 sounds good 15:56:19 manugupt1: I was trying to catch up on all channel discussion :-p wasn't sure what you wanted an opinion on :) 15:56:22 fine 15:56:28 unless opensuse doesn't know what to do with 6 :) 15:56:42 manugupt1: um. last I checked, we had the AI task which looks good, and one of the campaign tasks, assuming the person submits a bit more code to prove themselves 15:56:47 zimba12: openSUSE knows :) we could do more with a few more though :P 15:56:51 manugupt1: and the UI integration which is ambitious but cool 15:57:00 manugupt1: just wondering, is there any other comment/question about gsoc? 15:57:03 I have some misgivings about the UI task, so, koda and sheepluva, I'd be fine w/ 2 personally 15:57:09 if yes we should move on to them ;-) 15:57:14 I dearly wish someone had applied for the GLES2/HTML5 task, but what can you do... 15:57:27 (just to not eat too much time of the project meeting) 15:57:29 first of all, it's not even clear to me on how we're going to vote/select the best proposals 15:57:39 so my personal vote would be 2 slots out of my concerns about the frontend stuff. but we could handle 3 and might like to try it. 15:57:45 if you can spare them 15:57:53 #info lots of discussion about how to select the best proposals and how to split the slots among suborgs 15:58:30 tampakrap: Well if just give slots (that sounds good to me, and if everyone agrees) then openSUSE votes only on openSUSE ideas 15:58:39 and about who decides the students to assign to the slots, i think it's up to the suborgs first 15:58:47 and hedgewars only on hedgewars and ownCloud on ownCloud and so on.. 15:58:49 (we have already decided) 15:58:55 ok but vote HOW? through the webapp? through some meeting? 15:59:06 guys, may I ask you to take a break on this topic and go on with it in 10 minutes? 15:59:14 just so that we wrap up the opensuse project meeting :-) 15:59:27 * manugupt1 thinks the meeting will wrap in 2 minutes so we can wait :P 15:59:33 heh 15:59:46 manugupt1: any other news about gsoc you want to share, or shall we move on? 16:00:00 vuntz: I think I can only answer questions 16:00:01 last thing: let's create a spreadsheet where we make things clear 16:00:21 zimba12: Ok.. I will put all the proposals there.. on a google drive 16:00:24 manugupt1: okay, I'll assume there's no question :-P 16:00:32 vuntz: :P 16:00:37 I'll skip the " New Ideas & initiatives for the project?" topic since we're short in time 16:00:45 #topic Any other question? 16:01:07 yeap 16:01:12 for the record, darix told me that the ticket system for the infrastructure is almost ready 16:01:12 one more from me 16:01:23 vuntz: nice! 16:01:24 (which means that many things will be unblocked) 16:01:35 warlordfff: fire! 16:01:37 (ahah) 16:01:44 openSUSE Adovocate. Any news, updates? 16:01:51 can we have an oSC13 meeting here next Thursday? At 23? 16:01:51 #info ticket system for the infrastructure is almost ready 16:02:06 ping robjo 16:02:07 henne: 16:02:07 warlordfff: you always can :-) 16:02:08 joss 16:02:12 jospoortvliet: 16:02:17 warlordfff: (as long as it works for people) 16:02:28 Ilmehtar: any answer for CarlosRibeiro? 16:02:50 warlordfff: yeap 16:02:52 yeap that is why I am asking 16:02:56 CarlosRibeiro: yup! so, the change to the Ambassador Programme and its renaming to Advocates has been really well recieved. 16:02:58 and it would make sense to have a couple of people from artwork team during that meeting too 16:03:07 but none seems to be around today 16:03:08 all the feedback I've recieved has been positive 16:03:08 differentreality: +1 16:03:14 Ilmehtar: that is good news 16:03:18 cool 16:03:19 +1 on that note :D 16:03:23 differentreality: what meeting is this? I would love to participate 16:03:39 there has been a few concerns about the changes to the event merch, but when its explained to them, the concensus seems to be that it's a 'good thing' (tm) 16:03:57 anditosan: warlordfff just asked if we can do an oSC13 meeting next Thursday (the 23rd) 16:03:57 all around oSC13 anditosan 16:04:15 Ilmehtar: I also received some slightly less positive stuff, mostly due to the fact that we simply don't cover some cases that the old merch program DID cover. Like somebody just handing out things to friends... 16:04:26 and anditosan we would love if you do participate :D 16:04:26 we'll hopefully find solutions for that in the future 16:04:29 thanks guys, I can participate :D 16:04:43 jospoortvliet: that's true..but when I've explained the full story to people, they seem to accept the new changes 16:04:49 let's just set the time 16:05:23 jospoortvliet: Ilmehtar people don't like changes generally :D 16:05:33 in terms of the Local Coordinators, I currently have 10 volunteers, including some really great candidates - a few of them are unlikely to become Local Coordinators right now as they're not established community people. I'm waiting to see over the next few days before deciding how many Local Coordinators and how big the various localities are going to be 16:05:51 Ilmehtar: +1000 on that good to hear 16:05:54 I'm a little concerned that, for example, I haven't recieved a volenteer for Greece yet, but I do realise most of them are probably busy with oSC 13 ;-) 16:05:55 Ilmehtar: should I apply? 16:06:04 ^^ 16:06:18 really 16:06:19 warlordfff: sure you must apply 16:06:19 warlordfff: probably :-p 16:06:35 oh 16:06:35 any other question? 16:06:37 BTW 16:06:50 there's something new about planet.o.o ?? 16:06:59 a few of our Local Coordinator volenteers have great experience with the project, but weren't openSUSE members, so I used that as an excuse to get them to apply for membership 16:06:59 Ilmehtar: I got a mail that I must forward to you related to local coordinators 16:07:10 is planet.o.o on-line again ?? 16:07:32 victorhck: not yet, but the ticket system for infrastructure was blocking most infrastructure things, including this, I think 16:07:37 which has also given me an excuse to poke the rest of my colleagues on the Membership approval team - we now have the queue down to only 4 down from 11 membership candidates 16:07:48 anyway Ilmehtar consider me applied for thejob, can you? 16:07:49 victorhck: it is online here 16:08:02 there..I think that's the story of Advocates/Local Coordinators/Event Merch. so far, pretty good all round 16:08:04 victorhck: doesn't work for you? 16:08:11 warlordfff: :) really happy to hear that man 16:08:14 yep, I mean if some new geekos can sindicate thirs blogs... 16:08:16 :D 16:08:34 victorhck: yeah, that's blocking on the ticket system, I think 16:09:08 okay, I guess we're over-time, let's end the meeting here 16:09:12 but we can keep chatting 16:09:12 BTW another one comming from me 16:09:22 any candidates for oSC14? 16:09:24 (and I expect some gsoc noise starting again ;-)) 16:09:36 I read something about France 16:09:36 warlordfff: last I heard, the French were considering.. 16:09:44 warlordfff: not officially yet, people investigating 16:09:50 ok 16:09:53 thanks all! 16:09:56 #endmeeting