18:06:40 <mrdocs> #startmeeting 18:06:40 <bugbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 25 18:06:40 2012 UTC. The chair is mrdocs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:06:40 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:07:04 <mrdocs> #chairs FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson 18:07:17 <mrdocs> #chair FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson 18:07:17 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark FunkyPenguin henne mrdocs wstephenson 18:07:28 <FunkyPenguin> thanks 18:07:33 <suseROCKs> seems you're missing one more chair :-) 18:08:11 <mrdocs> #chair FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson yaloki 18:08:11 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark FunkyPenguin henne mrdocs wstephenson yaloki 18:08:24 <mrdocs> FunkyPenguin: all yours 18:08:33 <FunkyPenguin> grassy arse :) 18:09:00 <FunkyPenguin> ok, hear yea hear yea - this here meeting is called to order 18:09:22 * suseROCKs rises 18:09:49 <FunkyPenguin> #agenda 1. openSUSE North America Event 18:10:30 <AlanClark> FunkyPenguin: How about I start off the discussion on this topic? 18:10:55 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, certainly 18:11:10 <FunkyPenguin> #topic openSUSE North America Event 18:11:12 * suseROCKs sits 18:11:52 <AlanClark> SUSE just announced SUSECon 18:12:05 <AlanClark> to be held in Orlando on Sept 18-21 18:12:58 <AlanClark> They have reserved the conference facilities for the week 18:13:12 <AlanClark> including the dates of Sept 21-23 18:13:58 <AlanClark> They are offering the 21-23 to the openSUSE community for us to hold an event 18:14:26 <suseROCKs> To clarify, this means SUSE + openSUSE is not combined, but rather "co-located" on separate days? 18:14:27 <AlanClark> We as a community need to decide what we would like to do with facility. 18:14:47 <AlanClark> correct. The SUSE and openSUSE events are not combined 18:15:03 <suseROCKs> ok 18:15:32 <suseROCKs> so we get Friday-Sunday. Not bad deal 18:15:45 <FunkyPenguin> if we as a a community take the offer up, will SUSE provide any advertisement during their event? 18:15:49 <AlanClark> This is a great opportunity for our community. Several members have been asking for a small event in North America 18:16:10 <AlanClark> In fact this started from some Ambassadors and community members discussing it at Brainshare last fall. 18:16:22 <AlanClark> SUSE listened and is offering us the venue. 18:16:23 <wstephenson> back 18:16:23 <suseROCKs> The biggest question of all is what kind of funding can we assume for this event? Especially as it is close to the main oSC event and thus budget-competitive 18:17:01 <robjo> Why are there no alarms on our calender....grmbl I'm late 18:17:17 <suseROCKs> I see this as a great opportunity to fly in folks from Central America, Mexico and Canada, not just focused on US. But again, money is a first question before all else. 18:17:18 <AlanClark> Goal of the todays discussion is to identify those willing to lead this effort, to create a communication channel, provide detail needed to scope the event properly and to provide a pointer where questions, concerns and issues can be categorized as part of the planning. 18:17:48 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, I'd be very happy to step up to do that, and would look forward to others joining in so its not a one-man show :-) 18:18:14 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: great! 18:18:18 <AlanClark> thanks suseROCKs - several others have also stated they would like to help 18:18:48 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, and those that responded as such on the ML I added their names already to the openSUSE Events Calendar wiki page :-) 18:19:08 <wstephenson> it would also be a good idea to appeal for new contributors who are in florida to join just for this event 18:19:20 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, that's the purpose :-) 18:19:28 <AlanClark> for communicating - It has been suggested that we use the opensuse-conference mailing list as a communication channel 18:19:54 <AlanClark> wstephenson: +1 18:19:55 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, I wonder if that's a good idea. That's not an open list and as we get closer to oSC it will become convoluted 18:20:15 <warlordfff> +1 suseROCKs 18:20:21 <robjo> not another list please 18:20:31 <warlordfff> +1 robjo 18:20:34 <AlanClark> I thought that was an open list- so let's not 18:20:37 <suseROCKs> no i think it should be talked about openly on the ambassador or marketing list. 18:20:42 <warlordfff> need to find something in the midle :D 18:20:49 <suseROCKs> This is more a marketing event than a straight-forward tech event imo 18:21:18 <AlanClark> Ok - I'd propose that we use the marketing list. 18:21:23 <robjo> suseROCKs: I think the event will be whatever we make. 18:21:25 <suseROCKs> we want to talk visibly and publicly about it so that others might get a whiff and say "Hey I'm going!" :-) 18:21:40 <manugupt1> +1 AlanClark suseROCKs 18:21:46 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: scoping already? 18:21:50 <suseROCKs> robjo, so let's put it on either marketing or even project 18:22:12 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, scoping? (worries that it has a different meaning UK-wise than US-wise) 18:22:19 <AlanClark> so recognize that we will be planning osc at the same time 18:22:21 <warlordfff> I would say project since I think more people have access there 18:22:29 <robjo> It concerns the project IMHO, that's where the discussion should take place. 18:22:42 <suseROCKs> warlordfff, I'm thinking the same thing. We get more responses for calls to events on project than on other lists. 18:22:50 <robjo> Maybe we can can people to post with a [Orlando} prefix in the subject 18:23:01 <suseROCKs> and robjo can we ask that you join in this little team of ours? :-D 18:23:01 <mrdocs> plus it will drown out some of the other noise which has been there lately 18:23:07 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: scoping the event to be marketing rather than techie 18:23:37 <robjo> suseROCKs: I will not be able to be at the event, my mother's 75 birthday that weekend. 18:23:37 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, the extent of techie really depends on how many we can get to the event, and let's face it more of the uber-techs are in EU than in US 18:23:53 <suseROCKs> robjo, your mother deserves to see Mickey Mouse that weekend :-D 18:23:59 <AlanClark> I'm seeing 4 votes for -project rather than marketing 18:24:14 <suseROCKs> ok here's what I propose: 18:24:15 <mrdocs> +1 project 18:24:34 <crrodriguez> +1 prj 18:24:43 <warlordfff> + project 18:24:44 <suseROCKs> we talk on project for all general information. But once a team is solidified, really minor nitty gritty details can be discussed within the team, but always report a summary of progress on project 18:24:59 <suseROCKs> ensuring that eveyrone always knows what's up and what's going to be up :-) 18:25:02 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: otoh who would a marketing event speak to? susecon attendees staying on? press? suse fans who are not contributors? 18:25:05 <warlordfff> I believe that this is expected 18:25:19 <AlanClark> ok - project it is! 18:25:32 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, we'll nail all that down as we evolve the process. 18:25:43 <suseROCKs> quit bikeshedding (even though you still owe me a tandem bike ride hehe) 18:25:54 <AlanClark> I beileve that we should have a kick-off meeting as the next step 18:25:56 <warlordfff> I don't think it will be a marketing only event 18:25:59 <warlordfff> right? 18:26:04 <suseROCKs> no it won't 18:26:07 * AlanClark captures wstephenson questions 18:26:16 <suseROCKs> but what it will be exactly depends on who can be there and what resources we have available 18:26:26 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: did you just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UBr3MM9_zd4 or something? ;) 18:26:40 <suseROCKs> we don't even know if we have money to fly in people. 18:26:42 <AlanClark> so let's save the 'who will be there' questions for a kickoff meeting 18:27:05 <wstephenson> AlanClark: +1. my point was just not to start prematurely framing the event 18:27:06 <AlanClark> partly because in the kickoff meeting we'll want to discuss what we want to name this event 18:27:12 <robjo> I would expect that some SUSE employees will stay for the weekend 18:27:14 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, that video is unsubtitled, so the answer is unequivocally no. :-P 18:27:29 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, but we need to know what toys we're playing with? 18:27:38 <FunkyPenguin> as in budget etc 18:27:42 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin, exxactly. 18:27:46 <AlanClark> wstephenson: I agree with your point 18:27:49 <suseROCKs> has a budget even been discussed? 18:27:52 <mrdocs> AlanClark: do we know the location and size ? 18:28:02 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: meh 18:28:03 <suseROCKs> and wstephenson I apologize for typing too prematurely earlier. wasn't my intent. 18:28:10 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: np, let's move on 18:28:27 <suseROCKs> I don't wanna! I like holding grudges! 18:28:59 <suseROCKs> ok so we agreed on a project ML and to have a kick off meeting. Who leads? (I volunteer) 18:29:02 <FunkyPenguin> suseROCKs, try and stay on topic please ;) 18:29:12 <AlanClark> We will need to talk in more details about budget at the kickoff meeting. But a quick answer to the question 18:29:49 <AlanClark> Much of the budget for this event and osc12 is and will be based on Sponsors. Just as it was last year. 18:30:36 <wstephenson> then finding sponsorship needs to be #1 priority, given that we have >1 year to do it. 18:30:39 <crrodriguez> AlanClark: both events have separate budgets and sponsors I guess ? 18:31:01 <robjo> But the biggest sponsor is SUSE, thus the question of how much money will SUSE sponsor for each is certainly valid. 18:31:05 <robjo> wstephenson: +1 18:31:08 <AlanClark> wstephenson: +1 - That's why we need to get moving on both events 18:31:32 <suseROCKs> ok let's do it 18:31:50 <AlanClark> suseROCKs: Since you volunteered - will you setup the kickoff meeting? 18:31:50 <suseROCKs> I propose to have our kick off meeting next Wed same hour as this project meeting today 18:31:58 <suseROCKs> we all likey likey? 18:32:08 <robjo> Sorry if this was discussed while I was not participating yet. Was there a time decision for osc12 Jul, Aug, Oct? 18:32:21 <suseROCKs> nope 18:32:34 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - will you also create a space for people to post questions prior to the meeting? 18:32:44 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, Absolutely 18:32:58 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, I will attempt to do so this weekend after I recover from surgery tmw 18:33:05 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - I'd also suggest that we start a task list so that we can capture volunteers to help 18:33:06 <robjo> suseROCKs: time works for me. Can we get the news team to put this on the calendar please? 18:33:23 <suseROCKs> robjo, I shall add that as well 18:33:34 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, absolutely 18:34:07 <AlanClark> By the way - we need a name for this event - so everyone think about it. The name will effect who will attend (goes back to wstephenson's point) We will want to decide on a name at the kickoff meeting 18:34:23 <suseROCKs> but AlanClark to be honest, how and whether people volunteer will be graeatly influenced by whether we know that at least some monies will be available to cover their expenses 18:34:45 <suseROCKs> If we can say we gurantee at least 5 sponsored people, then we can get committed volunteers for sure. 18:34:48 <AlanClark> Yes I know, 18:35:05 <suseROCKs> ok 18:35:10 <AlanClark> answering that goes to the sponsors question 18:35:11 <robjo> I propose "geeko Meetup" 18:35:12 * suseROCKs suggests this topic be closed now 18:35:18 * FunkyPenguin votes for Geeko Luau 18:35:29 <suseROCKs> Geeko Epcot 18:35:31 <AlanClark> Did I answer all the questions? 18:35:35 <warlordfff> well people can help even if they don't actually attend the event, roght? 18:35:42 <warlordfff> well people can help even if they don't actually attend the event, right? 18:35:47 <suseROCKs> warlordfff, sure. And I expect that :-D 18:35:53 <FunkyPenguin> ok that neatly moves onto the next topic 18:35:57 <AlanClark> By the way - think about sponsors when you think about the name. 18:36:02 <warlordfff> help on marketing things and stuff 18:36:06 <suseROCKs> if anything this will create a blueprint for similar events in other regions of the world. 18:36:22 <FunkyPenguin> #topic openSUSE Conference 2012 18:36:31 <warlordfff> we kind of have that blueprint from oSC 18:36:32 <robjo> AlanClark: Are you implying we need a more serious name? 18:36:46 <suseROCKs> Geeko <SPONSORNAME> :-D 18:37:06 <amon0thoth1> oSAC 2012 18:37:15 <AlanClark> robjo: yes if something is named Geeko Luau, we'll have a tough time getting sponsors 18:37:37 <AlanClark> I like Geeko Luau, but sponsors won't. 18:37:43 <wstephenson> well, we did hold a Camp KDE in SF and still got sponsors... 18:38:05 <robjo> Geeko Beefest ? ;) 18:38:11 <robjo> Beerfest 18:38:30 <crrodriguez> Old Toad silver|Gold|Platinum :-) 18:38:34 <robjo> I can't even spell Beer correctly anymore 18:38:35 <suseROCKs> dudes, we're 37 min into the hour :-D 18:38:46 <AlanClark> Let's move on to the osc12 18:38:46 <FunkyPenguin> ok let's park the SUSECon discussion and move onto oSC12 :) 18:38:51 <amon0thoth1> oSAC 2012=openSUSE for the Americas Conference 2012 18:38:54 <robjo> osc12 date, Jul, Aug, Oct??? 18:39:11 <AlanClark> Let me start off this discussion 18:39:48 <AlanClark> We have 2 proposals for osc12 - Thanks to Kostas and Pavol. 18:40:30 <AlanClark> Knowing that we would have this North America event in September, I talked with Kostas and Pavol. 18:40:55 <AlanClark> We would like to propose that osc12 be held in Prague and osc13 be held in Greece. 18:41:25 <AlanClark> The proposed timeframe for osc12 would be late october or first part of November. 18:41:25 <mrdocs> sounds great to me 18:41:40 <mrdocs> and thanks to both of them for the proposals 18:41:41 <AlanClark> We need to stay away from Nov 5-8 as that is LinuxCon Europe 18:42:07 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, is LCE in PRG? 18:42:25 <robjo> LCE is in Barcelona AFAIK 18:42:31 <suseROCKs> no Barcelona 18:42:47 <warlordfff> I heard Madrid 18:42:49 <FunkyPenguin> ah, shame 18:42:56 <AlanClark> No but I don't think we want to compete unless we have to 18:43:03 <suseROCKs> be sure to check our 2012 events calendar wiki for any other conflicting dates 18:43:36 <AlanClark> We are currently sending RFPs to the venue's that Pavol put in his proposal 18:43:40 <suseROCKs> e.g. 30-Oct-Nov is ARM Tech which FunkyPenguin and I want to see great presence at 18:43:49 <robjo> We should get 2 week separation to LCE, IMHO 18:44:03 <AlanClark> Those RFPs will help determine the specific dates 18:44:06 <warlordfff> I think that libreoffice conf will be at that time, but I don't know how relevant this si 18:44:18 <suseROCKs> warlordfff, LO hasn't decided anything yet 18:44:32 <AlanClark> warlordfff: It's relevant, but I don't the libreoffice date yet. 18:44:35 <warlordfff> yeap I based that on the previous event 18:44:40 <wstephenson> do we know of anything else not on here? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Event-Calendar 18:44:56 <FunkyPenguin> Any LibreOffice event will be significant especially as we have so many involved people 18:44:59 <suseROCKs> previous was in Oct, but I'm on the LO marketing ML and they're still not even close to figuring out what to do yet. 18:45:14 <suseROCKs> I have an idea! 18:45:26 <suseROCKs> Why not invite LO to co-locate with us? 18:45:47 <AlanClark> I like that idea - if we don't have to pay for them 18:45:48 <robjo> Lets just be first and pick our date then. 18:46:00 <warlordfff> robjo: +1 18:46:18 <suseROCKs> the sooner we pick date/location the sooner we can reach out to LO and suggest co-location for maximum audience 18:46:18 <warlordfff> what prusnak things? 18:46:28 <warlordfff> +1 18:46:45 <AlanClark> If any of you find other date conflicts let me know. I'll talk to the LO 18:46:59 <robjo> We have the location I thought, no one objected to Prague for osc12 18:47:01 <warlordfff> although I am not a fun of Co-locate those 2 events 18:47:11 <FunkyPenguin> ok so two weeks separation between SUSECon, LCE 18:47:12 <AlanClark> any other questions on osc12? 18:47:31 <warlordfff> date? 18:47:36 <FunkyPenguin> that would land roughly on week 42 (15th Oct) 18:47:40 <warlordfff> when are we going to know about it? 18:47:58 <warlordfff> a precise date that is 18:48:05 <crrodriguez> Prague's cool, have to flight two days anyway ;-) 18:48:12 <AlanClark> warlordfff: Let's see what we get back from the RFPs - hopefully by the next project meeting 18:48:27 <manugupt1> and |miska| stays there :) 18:48:29 <warlordfff> what is RFPS? 18:48:49 <warlordfff> what is RFPs? 18:48:50 <suseROCKs> Request for Proposals 18:48:59 <AlanClark> RFP - is a request to the conference / hotels to give us availability and pricing 18:49:03 <suseROCKs> You have to contact venues to get best bid 18:49:19 <warlordfff> well at my side 18:49:55 <robjo> Can we move the proposal for Greece off the osc12 location wiki page then and move to a new page? 18:49:58 <warlordfff> I would say to at least leave a month between the SUSEcon and the oSC 18:50:22 <warlordfff> Greece is off for 2012 18:50:28 <warlordfff> :D 18:50:34 <warlordfff> we go for 2013 18:50:44 <suseROCKs> warlordfff, it all depends on the venue's availability. We have to fit into venue calendars too. Give prusnak time to get the information to us. 18:50:46 <AlanClark> warlordfff: +1 I'd prefer 4 weeks as well 18:50:58 <suseROCKs> we're just bikeshedding now 18:50:58 <robjo> warlordfff: that's why I requested the change in the wiki ;) 18:51:10 <warlordfff> :D 18:51:23 <FunkyPenguin> ok so move osc12 to week 47? 18:51:28 <AlanClark> By the way - we also want to work on osc13 so that we have a base plan at osc12 18:51:50 <suseROCKs> +1 18:51:57 <warlordfff> we are working on that 18:52:03 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: what's week 47? 18:52:16 <warlordfff> we will have another Summer camp 18:52:27 <warlordfff> wich it is like a local oSC 18:52:33 <warlordfff> which it is like a local oSC 18:52:34 <FunkyPenguin> sorry week commencing 19th Nov 18:52:55 <FunkyPenguin> warlordfff, you seem to be repeating yourself :) 18:52:58 <robjo> That's really close to Thanksgiving man. 18:53:11 <wstephenson> robjo: you on KDE? the calendar popup shows week numbers. 18:53:39 <robjo> wstephenson: nope xfce, GNOME refugee, but I like Xfce 18:53:58 <AlanClark> ok, let's go to the next topic 18:54:25 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Status Reports 18:54:49 * FunkyPenguin hasnt seen any status reports for a while 18:55:08 <manugupt1> I have one 18:55:35 <manugupt1> Can I go on? 18:55:42 <robjo> manugupt1: go 18:55:42 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, sure 18:56:12 <manugupt1> Ok.. GCI is over.. Mentors and students can update their tee shirt sizes and addressess 18:56:27 <manugupt1> Also I have already begun preparations for gsoc and please sign up for mentors 18:56:32 <manugupt1> thats all from me 18:56:52 <robjo> manugupt1: wiki link for gsoc12 ? 18:56:52 <warlordfff> GSOC will have marketing tasks this year? 18:57:15 <FunkyPenguin> warlordfff, that isnt really a coding task is it? 18:57:31 <manugupt1> warlordfff: No... GSOC has only coding tasks 18:57:39 <warlordfff> nop, but someone told me that this year they might add something like this 18:57:45 <manugupt1> robjo: I need to look for it will send in a while 18:57:45 <warlordfff> ok 18:57:51 <manugupt1> you guys can continue 18:58:08 <FunkyPenguin> ok i can give an update on the ARM porting effort if you desire 18:58:19 <warlordfff> yeahhhhhhh 18:58:21 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: please 18:58:25 <FunkyPenguin> :) 18:59:19 <FunkyPenguin> ok we have over 4100 packages ported, about 140 are failed, and 500 unresolved 18:59:25 <manugupt1> moin dragotin 18:59:37 <dragotin> heya! 18:59:38 <FunkyPenguin> the latter should come down once we fix some of those failures 18:59:51 <wstephenson> FunkyPenguin: cool, anything systematically holding you up, or is it just work? 19:00:17 <FunkyPenguin> wstephenson, the usual culprit really - time 19:00:27 <FunkyPenguin> and fingers/eyes 19:00:35 <manugupt1> robjo: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GSOC%202012%20Ideas 19:00:47 * suseROCKs proposes to octupus-ify FunkyPenguin 19:01:08 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: show us the list of failed packages to fix them. 19:01:12 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: :) 19:01:23 <FunkyPenguin> we have a few key packages that are in a failed state - yast-core/mono-core/and a few others 19:01:54 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=openSUSE%3AFactory%3AARM will tell you everything 19:02:09 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: Ok, will take a look and see what can I do. 19:02:10 <crrodriguez> ;) 19:02:13 <FunkyPenguin> atm it looks like we have a bit of a rebuild going on so i cant be more precise 19:02:17 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, thanks 19:02:27 <FunkyPenguin> generally the failures are test suite failures 19:02:48 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin, Will we each be given an ARM device to test your work on? 19:03:19 <FunkyPenguin> suseROCKs, cant say atm 19:03:32 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: atm the rpo is blocked... I will check it out later when I see the fails. should not be difficult to fix , just a little tedious ;) 19:03:35 <suseROCKs> shouldn't be that difficult to request 200 devices or so :-D 19:03:37 <FunkyPenguin> we will be at fosdem, and have got a talk in the cross distro room 19:03:52 <FunkyPenguin> we will be pimping on the booth too 19:04:00 <warlordfff> :-) 19:04:17 * warlordfff maybe learn a few things from you 19:04:29 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin would look good in a pimp daddy outfit 19:04:45 <FunkyPenguin> oh and a huge thanks go to agraf/adrianS/dirk/schaefi/|miska| for their hard work 19:05:07 <wstephenson> FunkyPenguin: in time for opensusecon: http://www.zootsuitstore.com/shopping/catalog/zoottux22.asp 19:05:10 <FunkyPenguin> thats the end from me 19:05:13 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: stuff still builing with qemu ? 19:05:23 <AlanClark> I don't have a status - but a question on the weekly news. 19:05:51 <AlanClark> Can anyone supply a status on the weekly news transition? 19:05:54 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, publicly yes, there is a private buildfarm on native behind the suse firewall 19:06:04 <suseROCKs> +1 wstephenson 19:06:14 <warlordfff> AlanClark: maybe ping HeliosReds for this 19:06:17 <robjo> weekly news topic was just on one of the lists this week 19:06:23 <warlordfff> or Etern4L 19:06:25 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: non native hardware sucks geekos ass... but let's see what can be done 19:06:27 <manugupt1> AlanClark: Latest I know HeliosReds is working on it 19:06:31 <robjo> whomever is taking over said they need a few more weeks 19:06:33 <manugupt1> to make things smoother 19:06:46 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, At the moment, there's no movement, but Satoru plans to revive it as soon as he finds some time. I personally prefer to let him get the boats in order before we start cannibalizing it. 19:06:46 <manugupt1> robjo: thats HeliosReds 19:07:37 <AlanClark> Thanks 19:07:46 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, /j #opensuse-arm for more answers etc :) 19:07:52 <warlordfff> if anyone want/can halp with the own can send him an email about it 19:08:20 <warlordfff> AFAIK the team need people 19:08:33 <wstephenson> is it better to do a smaller OWN sooner, or a complete OWN later? 19:08:47 <manugupt1> wstephenson: Let us HeliosReds decide that 19:08:52 <warlordfff> +1 19:08:54 <manugupt1> He knows a lot more about it 19:08:55 <suseROCKs> wstephenson, IMO let Satoru come up with some answers soon and we'll go from there 19:09:16 <manugupt1> I would rather skip these questions 19:09:40 <robjo> any other reports? 19:10:08 <suseROCKs> not really a report, but just that some of us have been working hard at looking all possible events for openSUSE to attend this year 19:10:25 <wstephenson> the boosters had a useful meeting with Jos and AJ about the impact of SLE12 starting soon 19:10:26 <suseROCKs> looks like we will be covering more events in US this year than ever before, which is good. 19:10:38 <warlordfff> I will add something there one of these days 19:10:54 <suseROCKs> If you can add something, please do so at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_events#2012 19:11:03 <AlanClark> FunkyPenguin: You can skip the Old Action Items topic - nothing new for that topic 19:11:17 <suseROCKs> getting as many events listed that we *might* be able to go to helps also for budgeting and DVD pressing allocations, etc. 19:11:22 <robjo> wstephenson: Anymore details on that? 19:11:23 <wstephenson> this will be the first SLE developed using OBS, so there may be social issues involved in all the SLE engineers turning up and wanting to play in 'our' sandpit 19:11:28 <FunkyPenguin> ok so next topic 19:11:38 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Where do we need to improve? 19:12:08 <mrdocs> wstephenson: cool about SLE12.. um did you have notes from that meeting ? 19:12:40 * FunkyPenguin needs to step afk and muzzle his kids for the night 19:12:50 <wstephenson> mrdocs: yes, need to blog them up 19:12:56 <mrdocs> nice 19:13:15 <mrdocs> robjo: this is your topic :) 19:14:05 <robjo> mrdocs: Well, I guess I need to jump over the shadow and move on from the ML effort that might never get finished. 19:14:20 <warlordfff> is it now the time to say something about openSUSE news? 19:14:39 <mrdocs> warlordfff: sure 19:14:40 <robjo> I'll pick things back up from the wiki and we can discuss more in the next meeting. 19:14:42 <warlordfff> ok 19:14:51 <AlanClark> thanks robjo 19:15:12 <mrdocs> robjo: great! 19:15:18 <warlordfff> we need to start more articles there 19:15:46 <warlordfff> don't get me wrong this is a wake up call for me too :) 19:17:18 <AlanClark> warlordfff: Do you have a specific action to suggest? 19:17:25 <warlordfff> any thoughts 19:17:28 <warlordfff> nope 19:17:33 <AlanClark> warlordfff: such as topics, etc? 19:17:42 <warlordfff> I just say it in case you have any thoughts 19:17:55 <warlordfff> I am a bit burned those days 19:17:59 <warlordfff> :-) 19:18:43 <FunkyPenguin> next topic? 19:18:52 <robjo> yes 19:19:01 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Q&A 19:19:34 <suseROCKs> I thought of a great question last night while I was in bed. But I should have written it down because I don't remember it when I woke up this morning. 19:19:51 <manugupt1> I have a question 19:20:01 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, go on 19:20:03 <manugupt1> to the board 19:20:35 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, yes? 19:21:04 <manugupt1> Since the new board has come up and everyone has given their thoughts on what they want in the near future.. I think the board should come up with a set of actionable items that are more visible and let known to the project in general 19:21:36 <manugupt1> Can this be done? The project till now honestly has little idea what board does 19:21:37 <izabelvalverde> where is the question? :D 19:21:42 <izabelvalverde> ok 19:22:06 <manugupt1> So I will like to know if the board can discuss and come up with a set of actionable items 19:22:09 <AlanClark> manugupt1: +1 - The board is going to be holding a F2F in February. That meeting would be a great opportunity to draft this years board actions 19:22:33 <dchilton> _o/ ... when/where do questions/topics that were raised on 'board@opensuse.org' list for board consideration actually get addressed? in these online meetings? 19:23:16 <manugupt1> Thanks AlanClark 19:23:26 <mrdocs> dchilton: usually if it is a public issue, not all are 19:23:29 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, a fair request 19:23:37 <mrdocs> not all issues are public of course 19:23:47 <DarkMac> how long does a membership request gets answered? 19:24:16 <dchilton> mrdocs: so if we don't see them addressed here, or posted on the board site's agenda, we can/should expect follow up via our email? 19:24:18 <mrdocs> DarkMac: depends on the membership commitee's backlog 19:24:40 <suseROCKs> It might be a good idea to recommend to the community to send in their thoughts to board@opensuse.org of what they think are important topics they'd like the board to adopt 19:24:40 <mrdocs> dchilton: yes and if you do not get a reply poke us.. 19:24:47 * AlanClark adds Manu's point to the F2F agenda 19:24:56 <mrdocs> manugupt1: very good suggesstion 19:26:22 <dchilton> mrdocs: will do. who, specifically, has the responsibility for parsing @boardML issues into agenda items? anyone in particular? 19:26:44 <manugupt1> Yes I have one more suggestion 19:26:51 <manugupt1> Regarding memberships 19:26:55 <FunkyPenguin> go on 19:26:57 <robjo> dchilton: If you have a public issue just ask now. 19:26:59 <AlanClark> dchilton: Agenda items for this meeting should be placed on the wiki not mailed to @boardML 19:27:16 <manugupt1> Is there someway other members can recommend new members 19:27:22 <manugupt1> Like recommend as in with proof 19:27:40 <dchilton> robjo: I raised a board issue, and am asking obout how it's dealt with. it's for the board to decide what to do with it. 19:27:48 <mrdocs> manugupt1: good point.. can we discuss this next meeting and add this as an agenda item 19:27:56 <dchilton> AlanClark: i was asked -- by a board member -- to mail to the board. 19:28:05 <manugupt1> mrdocs: Sure.. 19:28:50 <DarkMac> mrdocs: more than 2 weeks??? 19:29:01 <izabelvalverde> the board can influence membership process? 19:29:13 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: yes thats the board's job 19:29:45 <izabelvalverde> maugupt1 really? 19:29:45 <robjo> manugupt1: membership is the membership commitee's job, not the board 19:29:59 <izabelvalverde> robjo thanks, just to be sure 19:30:00 <manugupt1> robjo: Its been outsourced by board if I am correct 19:30:04 <suseROCKs> robjo, yes and no. 19:30:12 <dragotin> manugupt1: that was it some time ago, now there is a committee 19:30:20 <suseROCKs> the board outsourced it and the board can actually go in the queue and vote on membership 19:30:34 <dragotin> but its still boards duty to maintain our exclusive club ;-) 19:30:35 <izabelvalverde> but just vote right? 19:30:37 <manugupt1> dragotin: Hmm.. Because the last time board voted on a few memberships around the elections time too 19:30:39 <suseROCKs> as even henne emphasized that recently here in project channel 19:31:33 <dragotin> yes, I think the final decision is with the board 19:31:34 <robjo> there's a difference between "being able to vote on" and "making a decision" 19:31:59 <dragotin> or would be, but they asked the committee to do it. 19:32:00 <dchilton> AlanClark: so, in THAT case ... who's responsible for propagating @ML issues onto the agenda? 19:32:03 <suseROCKs> and as dragotin says, yes the board has the authority to override a membership decision 19:32:37 <dragotin> so be nice friendly to the king if you want to shoot a deer in the forrests 19:32:44 <izabelvalverde> hold on 19:32:46 <izabelvalverde> really? 19:33:27 <dragotin> izabelvalverde: I think so, yes. But that does not mean that there are no rules 19:33:30 <izabelvalverde> so if you are not close to the board they/you might cut you off? 19:33:35 <robjo> hopefully the board would only get involved in exceptional situations 19:33:36 <dragotin> nonono 19:34:00 <suseROCKs> robjo, exactly 19:34:18 <dragotin> there are (at least some) defined criteria that need to be met if you want to become a member 19:34:21 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: Why would you think that? A membership application requires some proof 19:34:21 <izabelvalverde> I'm glad that our new board is awesome! 19:34:21 <robjo> izabelvalverde: No, membership should be decided as documented, based on proven contributions to the project 19:34:38 <dragotin> and the board has the (I guess unpleasent) job to decide about 19:35:06 <izabelvalverde> robjo thank you 19:35:06 <dragotin> It was not easy back in the time to fix a process for that at all 19:35:11 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 I agree 19:35:24 <dragotin> beside a "everybody who wants can become a member" 19:35:53 <dragotin> and it was decided that a proven contribution must exist 19:36:11 <dragotin> whatever that is: bugreports, wiki-work, packaging, marketing, whatever 19:36:23 <izabelvalverde> dragotin thank you 19:36:49 <robjo> member ship criteria are documented in the wiki 19:37:25 <AlanClark> Am I seeing volunteers for joining the membership committee? :-) 19:37:50 <warlordfff> I am in for that :) 19:38:05 <izabelvalverde> well I just want to be sure that you don't need to be friend of the king ;) 19:38:14 <izabelvalverde> I'm out :D 19:38:27 <warlordfff> what do you mean izabelvalverde? 19:39:12 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde: Best question for the membership committee - ask them if they feel they are controlled by a king. 19:39:13 <dragotin> izabelvalverde: sorry, I was exaggerating 19:39:16 <izabelvalverde> I mean my friends are great but sometimes not much as I would want for support openSUSE ;) 19:39:31 <warlordfff> izabelvalverde: +1 19:39:34 <robjo> What we need is a way to prune the list. If one is a member but has not contributed in years, should they still be a member? 19:39:52 <warlordfff> this should be beyond personal relationships 19:40:02 <manugupt1> Also if someone is contributing more than even us over here and is not a member how do we identify it? 19:40:23 <AlanClark> The membership team has a tool they use to review candidates contributions 19:40:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, some people choose to contribute and not be member for whatever personal reasons. It's their decision, but we should try to encourage as much as possible to join 19:41:04 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: Some people would love to be but are not aware then 19:41:04 <suseROCKs> I think its interesting to note taht GNOME has approx. 350 members and we have appox. 500 members. But ratio-wise, their membership is more active overall than ours. 19:41:06 <dragotin> manugupt1: I think membership is something people should start to think about and than investigate how they can join 19:41:27 <dragotin> suseROCKs: how do you become a GNOME member? 19:41:27 <manugupt1> Like I know Forum moderators are not members yet with an average of >5 posts per day 19:41:36 <manugupt1> dragotin: recommentation afaik 19:41:39 <dragotin> suseROCKs: its also not just "I want", right? 19:41:46 <robjo> suseROCKs: thanks for making my point about pruning the list ;) 19:41:55 <dchilton> sigh ... 19:42:19 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, sure. I have poked many people to become membes and some feel they don't want to be members. Others don't know much. All we can do is make sure that membership applications are definitely available to all to attempt. 19:42:53 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: That is a topic for next meeting as mrdocs suggested and if people have a bit of time I can be here 19:42:55 <suseROCKs> dragotin, In GNOME, you have to show contributions and be vetted by reference 19:42:56 <warlordfff> I think that members have a similar problem with the ambassadors 19:43:02 <izabelvalverde> in GNOME you apply saying your contributions and indicate 2-3 others that can "justify/approve" your words 19:43:37 <suseROCKs> dragotin, also GNOME requires you to renew your membership every two years. 19:43:46 <warlordfff> I also think that in GNOME they examine your membership every 2 years,am I right? 19:43:53 <izabelvalverde> :) 19:43:54 <warlordfff> ok I am :) 19:43:56 <manugupt1> Also if some member can personally refer to people offcourse with proof.. It can be great 19:44:15 <robjo> there's a way for us to prune our list. Lets do something like that. 19:44:20 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 in gnome you need to apply 19:44:37 <warlordfff> as others said I also think that the member list could use some pruning 19:44:42 <robjo> Send an e-mail to members and verify their contributions over the last 2 years. 19:44:52 <warlordfff> +1 robjo 19:44:54 <suseROCKs> robjo, I'm not sure we want to prune or if we want to grandfather in. In any case, I think this is worthy of an ML discussion rather tan an IRC discussion in the middle of project meeting 19:45:01 <robjo> No reponse or no contributions, drop them. 19:45:07 <dragotin> robjo: why? 19:45:09 <izabelvalverde> robjo good +1 19:45:10 <warlordfff> yeap 19:45:14 <mrdocs> yes, lets discuss on ML 19:45:19 <manugupt1> mrdocs: +1 19:45:31 <warlordfff> but 19:45:31 <mrdocs> this needs to be aired out with feedback from everyone 19:45:31 <manugupt1> I agree MLs are the best way 19:45:38 <warlordfff> if a flame war start 19:45:44 <warlordfff> please someone stop it 19:45:44 <suseROCKs> I don't think we can drop members because in the beginning we told people it is lifetime. We need to grandfather those in and make renewal rules only apply to subsequent new memberships. 19:45:46 <robjo> dragotin: Because we vote for board and get some 200 votes from 500 members, what does that mean? 19:46:09 <suseROCKs> warlordfff, if a flame war starts, simply send to admin@ML :-D 19:46:10 <robjo> Anyway, I agree, this is an ML discussion. 19:46:14 <dragotin> ok 19:46:30 <robjo> any other questions? 19:46:34 <izabelvalverde> maybe the old idea about vote on the last 2 elections 19:46:42 <warlordfff> +1 19:46:51 <manugupt1> Lets carry this at ML 19:46:53 <manugupt1> please 19:47:00 <warlordfff> who will open it? 19:47:05 <izabelvalverde> :D 19:47:13 <manugupt1> Board offcourse or the membership committee 19:47:27 * suseROCKs proposes robjo He's a good topic moderator 19:47:36 <warlordfff> cool my opinion the sooner the better 19:47:37 <manugupt1> Thats upto them to decide though 19:47:53 <robjo> I'll do it, we know the board is reluctant to weigh in on these things. 19:48:06 <AlanClark> why? 19:48:16 <robjo> AlanClark: experience... 19:48:37 <warlordfff> I kind agree with robjo here 19:48:39 <robjo> Many governance discussions on ML get not response from the board. 19:48:51 <robjo> We discussed that topic 2 weeks ago. 19:49:04 <anditosan> sorry to interject, I know you're onto a different subject. But I remind you of our wallpaper contest. I know most of you have voted, if some of you have not, please do so here http://www.doodle.com/rci5689d49xkssbp#table 19:49:17 <manugupt1> thanks anditosan :) 19:49:30 <suseROCKs> great teamwork contributions, anditosan 19:49:33 * warlordfff thinks that board should be a bit more active on ML's 19:49:50 <warlordfff> anditosan: indeed great work 19:50:04 <anditosan> :D 19:50:11 <manugupt1> Ok.. so will the board do it or robjo? 19:50:42 <warlordfff> +1 robjo from me 19:50:46 <suseROCKs> if the board opens the discussion, membership team might feel the board is trying to overstep them. if robjo opens it, then team will see it as a open discussion started by the general community 19:51:17 <warlordfff> this topic shoulb be from the generall community 19:51:25 <AlanClark> it needs to be based on a proposal from the membership team 19:51:53 <izabelvalverde> Board question... Kostas and I will release this week the openSUSE Travel Program - or whatever it will be named :) 19:51:54 <manugupt1> My proposal : Is the board and membership team comes up with a proposal by next meeting or whatever time frame 19:52:07 <izabelvalverde> you guys will give us any feedback? 19:52:10 <manugupt1> and put it on discussion 19:52:20 <wstephenson> izabelvalverde: on my todo list... 19:52:52 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: ive looked at it twice, expect feed back soon 19:53:00 <izabelvalverde> Thank you ;) 19:53:02 <robjo> I will send a message, then people can rip it to pieces, or we might get some actionable items. Lets just see what happens. 19:53:15 <robjo> No need to have discussions about discussion.... 19:53:26 <warlordfff> we started work based on the draft 19:53:29 <anditosan> robjo, +1 19:53:55 <warlordfff> with the 'openSUSE Travel Support Program' that is 19:54:14 <robjo> motion to adjourn 19:54:25 <izabelvalverde> wstephenson mrdocs we already supported one 19:54:35 <izabelvalverde> the Cerea Fair in Italy ;) 19:55:14 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde and warlordfff: Thanks for creating that proposal 19:55:40 <izabelvalverde> you're welcome :) 19:55:40 <warlordfff> :-) 19:56:19 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde: how do you plan to release the program? 19:56:38 <AlanClark> ie - how will people find out about it? 19:56:49 <izabelvalverde> an announcement 19:56:53 <AlanClark> cool 19:57:01 <izabelvalverde> set in the wiki as well 19:57:09 <manugupt1> AlanClark: izabelvalverde I am curios about one detail which I have faced in the past 19:57:26 <AlanClark> manugupt1: which is? 19:57:26 <izabelvalverde> later you can see manugupt1 19:57:50 <manugupt1> Places like India have almost the transfer amount is almost equal to sponsorship account 19:57:53 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 is hard to make it and with 100 sugestions is worst :D 19:58:00 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde & Kostas - perhaps this should be an agenda item for the next project meeting? 19:58:23 <izabelvalverde> AlanClark if the Board agree ok for me :) 19:58:44 <warlordfff> mee too 19:58:52 <manugupt1> that creates a problem while getting sponsorships for us 19:58:55 <AlanClark> +1 19:59:00 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 I just can say that we will treat all the people equaly as possible 19:59:12 <warlordfff> maybe if the board finishes the feedback by then even to present 19:59:19 <AlanClark> manugupt1: I'm trying to work on the money transfer issue 19:59:30 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: I agree on that 19:59:53 <warlordfff> sorry I did not get the problem 19:59:55 <manugupt1> AlanClark: thanks.. I am just trying to remind this again and again and offcourse I remember you working on it\ 20:00:06 <AlanClark> warlordfff: set a deadline for feedback 20:00:13 <manugupt1> so that it does not get missed out 20:00:17 <warlordfff> Fosdem 20:00:23 <izabelvalverde> too late 20:00:27 <warlordfff> ok 20:00:33 <izabelvalverde> sorry but fosdem is too late 20:00:35 <izabelvalverde> :) 20:00:45 <izabelvalverde> I've been working on it since november! 20:01:02 <izabelvalverde> we didn't release waiting for the new board 20:01:03 <warlordfff> yeah, mee too :D 20:01:15 <manugupt1> Ok.. Good night folks 20:01:17 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde & kostas - then go with the feedback you've received 20:01:24 <izabelvalverde> so surely mrdocs and wstepheson will help us too :D 20:01:28 <anditosan> manugupt1, night :D 20:01:38 <warlordfff> well, I would like to have feedback from the whole board 20:01:38 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: by end of day i reply 20:01:51 <izabelvalverde> mrdocs thank you :) 20:01:52 <robjo> izabelvalverde: thanks, but just because you have been working on this for a long time, that's not agood reason why fosdem is too late 20:02:28 <izabelvalverde> robjo maybe you are right but we have to start to work otherwise will lost a bit portion of money ;) 20:02:56 <robjo> now there's a good reason to set an earlier deadline. 20:03:05 <warlordfff> :) 20:03:08 <anditosan> :) 20:03:15 <AlanClark> yup - push ahead - we can always modify it if needed 20:03:22 <izabelvalverde> robjo my is personal... since november :D 20:04:02 <robjo> are we done then? 20:04:13 <anditosan> looks like it 20:04:50 <AlanClark> let's close 20:04:57 <robjo> motion to adjourn 20:05:33 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: #endmeeting ?? 20:06:04 <DarkMac> grrrrr 20:06:18 <AlanClark> henne will be our moderator at the next meeting (he's next on the list and not here to object) 20:06:23 <AlanClark> #endmeeting