18:06:40 <mrdocs> #startmeeting
18:06:40 <bugbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 25 18:06:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is mrdocs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:06:40 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:07:04 <mrdocs> #chairs FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson
18:07:17 <mrdocs> #chair FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson
18:07:17 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark FunkyPenguin henne mrdocs wstephenson
18:07:28 <FunkyPenguin> thanks
18:07:33 <suseROCKs> seems you're missing one more chair  :-)
18:08:11 <mrdocs> #chair FunkyPenguin AlanClark henne wstephenson yaloki
18:08:11 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark FunkyPenguin henne mrdocs wstephenson yaloki
18:08:24 <mrdocs> FunkyPenguin: all yours
18:08:33 <FunkyPenguin> grassy arse :)
18:09:00 <FunkyPenguin> ok, hear yea hear yea - this here meeting is called to order
18:09:22 * suseROCKs rises
18:09:49 <FunkyPenguin> #agenda 1. openSUSE North America Event
18:10:30 <AlanClark> FunkyPenguin: How about I start off the discussion on this topic?
18:10:55 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, certainly
18:11:10 <FunkyPenguin> #topic openSUSE North America Event
18:11:12 * suseROCKs sits
18:11:52 <AlanClark> SUSE just announced SUSECon
18:12:05 <AlanClark> to be held in Orlando on Sept 18-21
18:12:58 <AlanClark> They have reserved the conference facilities for the week
18:13:12 <AlanClark> including the dates of Sept 21-23
18:13:58 <AlanClark> They are offering the 21-23 to the openSUSE community  for us to hold an event
18:14:26 <suseROCKs> To clarify,  this means SUSE + openSUSE is not combined, but rather "co-located" on separate days?
18:14:27 <AlanClark> We as a community need to decide what we would like to do with facility.
18:14:47 <AlanClark> correct.  The SUSE and openSUSE events are not combined
18:15:03 <suseROCKs> ok
18:15:32 <suseROCKs> so we get Friday-Sunday.   Not bad deal
18:15:45 <FunkyPenguin> if we as a a community take the offer up, will SUSE provide any advertisement during their event?
18:15:49 <AlanClark> This is a great opportunity for our community.  Several members have been asking for a small event in North America
18:16:10 <AlanClark> In fact this started from some Ambassadors and community members discussing it at Brainshare last fall.
18:16:22 <AlanClark> SUSE listened and is offering us the venue.
18:16:23 <wstephenson> back
18:16:23 <suseROCKs> The biggest question of all is what kind of funding can we assume for this event?   Especially as it is close to the main oSC event and thus budget-competitive
18:17:01 <robjo> Why are there no alarms on our calender....grmbl I'm late
18:17:17 <suseROCKs> I see this as a great opportunity to fly in folks from Central America, Mexico and Canada,  not just focused on US.   But again, money is a first question before all else.
18:17:18 <AlanClark> Goal of the todays discussion is to identify those willing to lead this effort, to create a communication channel, provide detail needed to scope the event properly and to provide a pointer where questions, concerns and issues can be categorized as part of the planning.
18:17:48 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,   I'd be very happy to step up to do that, and would look forward to others joining in so its not a one-man show  :-)
18:18:14 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: great!
18:18:18 <AlanClark> thanks suseROCKs - several others have also stated they would like to help
18:18:48 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,   and those that responded as such on the ML I added their names already to the openSUSE Events Calendar wiki page  :-)
18:19:08 <wstephenson> it would also be a good idea to appeal for new contributors who are in florida to join just for this event
18:19:20 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,   that's the purpose  :-)
18:19:28 <AlanClark> for communicating - It has been suggested that we use the opensuse-conference mailing list as a communication channel
18:19:54 <AlanClark> wstephenson: +1
18:19:55 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,   I wonder if that's a good idea.   That's not an open list  and as we get closer to oSC it will become convoluted
18:20:15 <warlordfff> +1 suseROCKs
18:20:21 <robjo> not another list please
18:20:31 <warlordfff> +1 robjo
18:20:34 <AlanClark> I thought that was an open list- so let's not
18:20:37 <suseROCKs> no  i think it should be talked about openly on the ambassador or marketing list.
18:20:42 <warlordfff> need to find something in the midle :D
18:20:49 <suseROCKs> This is more a marketing event than a straight-forward tech event imo
18:21:18 <AlanClark> Ok - I'd propose that we use the marketing list.
18:21:23 <robjo> suseROCKs: I think the event will be whatever we make.
18:21:25 <suseROCKs> we want to talk visibly and publicly about it so that others might get a whiff and say  "Hey I'm going!"  :-)
18:21:40 <manugupt1> +1 AlanClark suseROCKs
18:21:46 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: scoping already?
18:21:50 <suseROCKs> robjo,   so let's put it on either marketing or even project
18:22:12 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,  scoping?  (worries that it has a different meaning UK-wise than US-wise)
18:22:19 <AlanClark> so recognize that we will be planning osc at the same time
18:22:21 <warlordfff> I would say project since I think more people have access there
18:22:29 <robjo> It concerns the project IMHO, that's where the discussion should take place.
18:22:42 <suseROCKs> warlordfff,   I'm thinking the same thing.   We get more responses for calls to events on project than on other lists.
18:22:50 <robjo> Maybe we can can people to post with a [Orlando} prefix in the subject
18:23:01 <suseROCKs> and robjo   can we ask that you join in this little team of ours?  :-D
18:23:01 <mrdocs> plus it will drown out some of the other noise which has been there lately
18:23:07 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: scoping the event to be marketing rather than techie
18:23:37 <robjo> suseROCKs: I will not be able to be at the event, my mother's 75 birthday that weekend.
18:23:37 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,  the extent of techie really depends on how many we can get to the event, and let's face it more of the uber-techs are in EU than in US
18:23:53 <suseROCKs> robjo,   your mother deserves to see Mickey Mouse that weekend  :-D
18:23:59 <AlanClark> I'm seeing 4 votes for -project rather than marketing
18:24:14 <suseROCKs> ok here's what I propose:
18:24:15 <mrdocs> +1 project
18:24:34 <crrodriguez> +1 prj
18:24:43 <warlordfff> + project
18:24:44 <suseROCKs> we talk on project for all general information.  But once a team is solidified, really minor nitty gritty details can be discussed within the team, but always report a summary of progress on project
18:24:59 <suseROCKs> ensuring that eveyrone always knows what's up and what's going to be up  :-)
18:25:02 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: otoh who would a marketing event speak to? susecon attendees staying on? press? suse fans who are not contributors?
18:25:05 <warlordfff> I believe that this is expected
18:25:19 <AlanClark> ok - project it is!
18:25:32 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,   we'll nail all that down as we evolve the process.
18:25:43 <suseROCKs> quit bikeshedding (even though you still owe me a tandem bike ride  hehe)
18:25:54 <AlanClark> I beileve that we should have a kick-off meeting as the next step
18:25:56 <warlordfff> I don't think it will be a marketing only event
18:25:59 <warlordfff> right?
18:26:04 <suseROCKs> no it won't
18:26:07 * AlanClark captures wstephenson questions
18:26:16 <suseROCKs> but what it will be exactly depends on who can be there and what resources we have available
18:26:26 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: did you just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UBr3MM9_zd4 or something? ;)
18:26:40 <suseROCKs> we don't even know if we have money to fly in people.
18:26:42 <AlanClark> so let's save the 'who will be there' questions for a kickoff meeting
18:27:05 <wstephenson> AlanClark: +1. my point was just not to start prematurely framing the event
18:27:06 <AlanClark> partly because in the kickoff meeting we'll want to discuss what we want to name this event
18:27:12 <robjo> I would expect that some SUSE employees will stay for the weekend
18:27:14 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,   that video is unsubtitled, so the answer is unequivocally no.  :-P
18:27:29 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, but we need to know what toys we're playing with?
18:27:38 <FunkyPenguin> as in budget etc
18:27:42 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin,  exxactly.
18:27:46 <AlanClark> wstephenson:  I agree with your point
18:27:49 <suseROCKs> has a budget even been discussed?
18:27:52 <mrdocs> AlanClark: do we know the location and size ?
18:28:02 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: meh
18:28:03 <suseROCKs> and wstephenson  I apologize for typing too prematurely earlier.   wasn't my intent.
18:28:10 <wstephenson> suseROCKs: np, let's move on
18:28:27 <suseROCKs> I don't wanna!  I like holding grudges!
18:28:59 <suseROCKs> ok so we agreed on a project ML and to have a kick off meeting.   Who leads?   (I volunteer)
18:29:02 <FunkyPenguin> suseROCKs, try and stay on topic please ;)
18:29:12 <AlanClark> We will need to talk in more details about budget at the kickoff meeting. But a quick answer to the question
18:29:49 <AlanClark> Much of the budget for this event and osc12 is and will be based on Sponsors.  Just as it was last year.
18:30:36 <wstephenson> then finding sponsorship needs to be #1 priority, given that we have >1 year to do it.
18:30:39 <crrodriguez> AlanClark: both events have separate budgets and sponsors I guess ?
18:31:01 <robjo> But the biggest sponsor is SUSE, thus the question of how much money will SUSE sponsor for each is certainly valid.
18:31:05 <robjo> wstephenson: +1
18:31:08 <AlanClark> wstephenson: +1 - That's why we need to get moving on both events
18:31:32 <suseROCKs> ok let's do it
18:31:50 <AlanClark> suseROCKs:  Since you volunteered - will you setup the kickoff meeting?
18:31:50 <suseROCKs> I propose to have our kick off meeting next Wed same hour as this project meeting today
18:31:58 <suseROCKs> we all likey likey?
18:32:08 <robjo> Sorry if this was discussed while I was not participating yet. Was there a time decision for osc12 Jul, Aug, Oct?
18:32:21 <suseROCKs> nope
18:32:34 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - will you also create a space for people to post questions prior to the meeting?
18:32:44 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,  Absolutely
18:32:58 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,  I will attempt to do so this weekend after I recover from surgery tmw
18:33:05 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - I'd also suggest that we start a task list so that we can capture volunteers to help
18:33:06 <robjo> suseROCKs: time works for me. Can we get the news team to put this on the calendar please?
18:33:23 <suseROCKs> robjo,  I shall add that as well
18:33:34 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,  absolutely
18:34:07 <AlanClark> By the way - we need a name for this event - so everyone think about it.  The name will effect who will attend (goes back to wstephenson's point)  We will want to decide on a name at the kickoff meeting
18:34:23 <suseROCKs> but AlanClark  to be honest, how and whether people volunteer will be graeatly influenced by whether we know that at least some monies will be available to cover their expenses
18:34:45 <suseROCKs> If we can say we gurantee at least 5 sponsored people, then we can get committed volunteers for sure.
18:34:48 <AlanClark> Yes I know,
18:35:05 <suseROCKs> ok
18:35:10 <AlanClark> answering that goes to the sponsors question
18:35:11 <robjo> I propose "geeko Meetup"
18:35:12 * suseROCKs suggests this topic be closed now
18:35:18 * FunkyPenguin votes for Geeko Luau
18:35:29 <suseROCKs> Geeko Epcot
18:35:31 <AlanClark> Did I answer all the questions?
18:35:35 <warlordfff> well people can help even if they don't actually attend the event, roght?
18:35:42 <warlordfff> well people can help even if they don't actually attend the event, right?
18:35:47 <suseROCKs> warlordfff,  sure.   And I expect that  :-D
18:35:53 <FunkyPenguin> ok that neatly moves onto the next topic
18:35:57 <AlanClark> By the way - think about sponsors when you think about the name.
18:36:02 <warlordfff> help on marketing things and stuff
18:36:06 <suseROCKs> if anything this will create a blueprint for similar events in other regions of the world.
18:36:22 <FunkyPenguin> #topic openSUSE Conference 2012
18:36:31 <warlordfff> we kind of have that blueprint from oSC
18:36:32 <robjo> AlanClark: Are you implying we need a more serious name?
18:36:46 <suseROCKs> Geeko <SPONSORNAME>   :-D
18:37:06 <amon0thoth1> oSAC 2012
18:37:15 <AlanClark> robjo:  yes if something is named Geeko Luau,  we'll have a tough time getting sponsors
18:37:37 <AlanClark> I like Geeko Luau, but sponsors won't.
18:37:43 <wstephenson> well, we did hold a Camp KDE in SF and still got sponsors...
18:38:05 <robjo> Geeko Beefest ? ;)
18:38:11 <robjo> Beerfest
18:38:30 <crrodriguez> Old Toad silver|Gold|Platinum :-)
18:38:34 <robjo> I can't even spell Beer correctly anymore
18:38:35 <suseROCKs> dudes,  we're 37 min into the hour  :-D
18:38:46 <AlanClark> Let's move on to the osc12
18:38:46 <FunkyPenguin> ok let's park the SUSECon discussion and move onto oSC12 :)
18:38:51 <amon0thoth1> oSAC 2012=openSUSE for the  Americas Conference 2012
18:38:54 <robjo> osc12 date, Jul, Aug, Oct???
18:39:11 <AlanClark> Let me start off this discussion
18:39:48 <AlanClark> We have 2 proposals for osc12 - Thanks to Kostas and Pavol.
18:40:30 <AlanClark> Knowing that we would have this North America event in September, I talked with Kostas and Pavol.
18:40:55 <AlanClark> We would like to propose that osc12 be held in Prague and osc13 be held in Greece.
18:41:25 <AlanClark> The proposed timeframe for osc12 would be late october or first part of November.
18:41:25 <mrdocs> sounds great to me
18:41:40 <mrdocs> and thanks to both of them for the proposals
18:41:41 <AlanClark> We need to stay away from Nov 5-8 as that is LinuxCon Europe
18:42:07 <FunkyPenguin> AlanClark, is LCE in PRG?
18:42:25 <robjo> LCE is in Barcelona AFAIK
18:42:31 <suseROCKs> no Barcelona
18:42:47 <warlordfff> I heard Madrid
18:42:49 <FunkyPenguin> ah, shame
18:42:56 <AlanClark> No but I don't think we want to compete unless we have to
18:43:03 <suseROCKs> be sure to check our 2012 events calendar wiki for any other conflicting dates
18:43:36 <AlanClark> We are currently sending RFPs to the venue's that Pavol put in his proposal
18:43:40 <suseROCKs> e.g. 30-Oct-Nov is ARM Tech which FunkyPenguin  and I want to see great presence at
18:43:49 <robjo> We should get 2 week separation to LCE, IMHO
18:44:03 <AlanClark> Those RFPs will help determine the specific dates
18:44:06 <warlordfff> I think that libreoffice conf will be at that time, but I don't know how relevant this si
18:44:18 <suseROCKs> warlordfff,   LO hasn't decided anything yet
18:44:32 <AlanClark> warlordfff:  It's relevant, but I don't the libreoffice date yet.
18:44:35 <warlordfff> yeap I based that on the previous event
18:44:40 <wstephenson> do we know of anything else not on here? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Event-Calendar
18:44:56 <FunkyPenguin> Any LibreOffice event will be significant especially as we have so many involved people
18:44:59 <suseROCKs> previous was in Oct,  but I'm on the LO marketing ML and they're still not even close to figuring out what to do yet.
18:45:14 <suseROCKs> I have an idea!
18:45:26 <suseROCKs> Why not invite LO to co-locate with us?
18:45:47 <AlanClark> I like that idea - if we don't have to pay for them
18:45:48 <robjo> Lets just be first and pick our date then.
18:46:00 <warlordfff> robjo: +1
18:46:18 <suseROCKs> the sooner we pick date/location the sooner we can reach out to LO and suggest co-location for maximum audience
18:46:18 <warlordfff> what prusnak things?
18:46:28 <warlordfff> +1
18:46:45 <AlanClark> If any of you find other date conflicts let me know.  I'll talk to the LO
18:46:59 <robjo> We have the location I thought, no one objected to Prague for osc12
18:47:01 <warlordfff> although I am not a fun of Co-locate those 2 events
18:47:11 <FunkyPenguin> ok so two weeks separation between SUSECon, LCE
18:47:12 <AlanClark> any other questions on osc12?
18:47:31 <warlordfff> date?
18:47:36 <FunkyPenguin> that would land roughly on week 42 (15th Oct)
18:47:40 <warlordfff> when are we going to know about it?
18:47:58 <warlordfff> a precise date that is
18:48:05 <crrodriguez> Prague's cool, have to flight two days anyway ;-)
18:48:12 <AlanClark> warlordfff:  Let's see what we get back from the RFPs - hopefully by the next project meeting
18:48:27 <manugupt1> and |miska| stays there :)
18:48:29 <warlordfff> what is RFPS?
18:48:49 <warlordfff> what is RFPs?
18:48:50 <suseROCKs> Request for Proposals
18:48:59 <AlanClark> RFP - is a request to the conference / hotels to give us availability and pricing
18:49:03 <suseROCKs> You have to contact venues to get best bid
18:49:19 <warlordfff> well at my side
18:49:55 <robjo> Can we move the proposal for Greece off the osc12 location wiki page then and move to a new page?
18:49:58 <warlordfff> I would say to at least leave a month between the SUSEcon and the oSC
18:50:22 <warlordfff> Greece is off for 2012
18:50:28 <warlordfff> :D
18:50:34 <warlordfff> we go for 2013
18:50:44 <suseROCKs> warlordfff,  it all depends on the venue's availability.   We have to fit into venue calendars too.    Give prusnak time to get the information to us.
18:50:46 <AlanClark> warlordfff: +1  I'd prefer 4 weeks as well
18:50:58 <suseROCKs> we're just bikeshedding now
18:50:58 <robjo> warlordfff: that's why I requested the change in the wiki ;)
18:51:10 <warlordfff> :D
18:51:23 <FunkyPenguin> ok so move osc12 to week 47?
18:51:28 <AlanClark> By the way - we also want to work on osc13 so that we have a base plan at osc12
18:51:50 <suseROCKs> +1
18:51:57 <warlordfff> we are working on that
18:52:03 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: what's week 47?
18:52:16 <warlordfff> we will have another Summer camp
18:52:27 <warlordfff> wich it is like a local oSC
18:52:33 <warlordfff> which it is like a local oSC
18:52:34 <FunkyPenguin> sorry week commencing 19th Nov
18:52:55 <FunkyPenguin> warlordfff, you seem to be repeating yourself :)
18:52:58 <robjo> That's really close to Thanksgiving man.
18:53:11 <wstephenson> robjo: you on KDE? the calendar popup shows week numbers.
18:53:39 <robjo> wstephenson: nope xfce, GNOME refugee, but I like Xfce
18:53:58 <AlanClark> ok, let's go to the next topic
18:54:25 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Status Reports
18:54:49 * FunkyPenguin hasnt seen any status reports for a while
18:55:08 <manugupt1> I have one
18:55:35 <manugupt1> Can I go on?
18:55:42 <robjo> manugupt1: go
18:55:42 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, sure
18:56:12 <manugupt1> Ok.. GCI is over.. Mentors and students can update their tee shirt sizes and addressess
18:56:27 <manugupt1> Also I have already begun preparations for gsoc and please sign up for mentors
18:56:32 <manugupt1> thats all from me
18:56:52 <robjo> manugupt1: wiki link for gsoc12 ?
18:56:52 <warlordfff> GSOC will have marketing tasks this year?
18:57:15 <FunkyPenguin> warlordfff, that isnt really a coding task is it?
18:57:31 <manugupt1> warlordfff: No... GSOC has only coding tasks
18:57:39 <warlordfff> nop, but someone told me that this year they might add something like this
18:57:45 <manugupt1> robjo: I need to look for it will send in a while
18:57:45 <warlordfff> ok
18:57:51 <manugupt1> you guys can continue
18:58:08 <FunkyPenguin> ok i can give an update on the ARM porting effort if you desire
18:58:19 <warlordfff> yeahhhhhhh
18:58:21 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: please
18:58:25 <FunkyPenguin> :)
18:59:19 <FunkyPenguin> ok we have over 4100 packages ported, about 140 are failed, and 500 unresolved
18:59:25 <manugupt1> moin dragotin
18:59:37 <dragotin> heya!
18:59:38 <FunkyPenguin> the latter should come down once we fix some of those failures
18:59:51 <wstephenson> FunkyPenguin: cool, anything systematically holding you up, or is it just work?
19:00:17 <FunkyPenguin> wstephenson, the usual culprit really - time
19:00:27 <FunkyPenguin> and fingers/eyes
19:00:35 <manugupt1> robjo: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GSOC%202012%20Ideas
19:00:47 * suseROCKs proposes to octupus-ify FunkyPenguin
19:01:08 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: show us the list of failed packages to fix them.
19:01:12 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: :)
19:01:23 <FunkyPenguin> we have a few key packages that are in a failed state - yast-core/mono-core/and a few others
19:01:54 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=openSUSE%3AFactory%3AARM will tell you everything
19:02:09 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: Ok, will take a look and see what can I do.
19:02:10 <crrodriguez> ;)
19:02:13 <FunkyPenguin> atm it looks like we have a bit of a rebuild going on so i cant be more precise
19:02:17 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, thanks
19:02:27 <FunkyPenguin> generally the failures are test suite failures
19:02:48 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin,  Will we each be given an ARM device to test your work on?
19:03:19 <FunkyPenguin> suseROCKs, cant say atm
19:03:32 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: atm the rpo is blocked... I will check it out later when I see the fails. should not be difficult to fix , just a little tedious ;)
19:03:35 <suseROCKs> shouldn't be that difficult to request 200 devices or so  :-D
19:03:37 <FunkyPenguin> we will be at fosdem, and have got a talk in the cross distro room
19:03:52 <FunkyPenguin> we will be pimping on the booth too
19:04:00 <warlordfff> :-)
19:04:17 * warlordfff maybe learn a few things  from you
19:04:29 <suseROCKs> FunkyPenguin would look good in a pimp daddy outfit
19:04:45 <FunkyPenguin> oh and a huge thanks go to agraf/adrianS/dirk/schaefi/|miska| for their hard work
19:05:07 <wstephenson> FunkyPenguin: in time for opensusecon: http://www.zootsuitstore.com/shopping/catalog/zoottux22.asp
19:05:10 <FunkyPenguin> thats the end from me
19:05:13 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: stuff still builing with qemu ?
19:05:23 <AlanClark> I don't have a status - but a question on the weekly news.
19:05:51 <AlanClark> Can anyone supply a status on the weekly news transition?
19:05:54 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, publicly yes, there is a private buildfarm on native behind the suse firewall
19:06:04 <suseROCKs> +1 wstephenson
19:06:14 <warlordfff> AlanClark:  maybe ping HeliosReds for this
19:06:17 <robjo> weekly news topic was just on one of the lists this week
19:06:23 <warlordfff> or Etern4L
19:06:25 <crrodriguez> FunkyPenguin: non native hardware sucks geekos ass... but let's see what can be done
19:06:27 <manugupt1> AlanClark: Latest I know HeliosReds is working on it
19:06:31 <robjo> whomever is taking over said they need a few more weeks
19:06:33 <manugupt1> to make things smoother
19:06:46 <suseROCKs> AlanClark,  At the moment, there's no movement, but Satoru plans to revive it as soon as he finds some time.  I personally prefer to let him get the boats in order before we start cannibalizing it.
19:06:46 <manugupt1> robjo: thats HeliosReds
19:07:37 <AlanClark> Thanks
19:07:46 <FunkyPenguin> crrodriguez, /j #opensuse-arm for more answers etc :)
19:07:52 <warlordfff> if anyone want/can halp with the own can send him an email about it
19:08:20 <warlordfff> AFAIK the team need people
19:08:33 <wstephenson> is it better to do a smaller OWN sooner, or a complete OWN later?
19:08:47 <manugupt1> wstephenson: Let us HeliosReds decide that
19:08:52 <warlordfff> +1
19:08:54 <manugupt1> He knows a lot more about it
19:08:55 <suseROCKs> wstephenson,   IMO  let Satoru come up with some answers soon and we'll go from there
19:09:16 <manugupt1> I would rather skip these questions
19:09:40 <robjo> any other reports?
19:10:08 <suseROCKs> not really a report, but just that some of us have been working hard at looking all possible events for openSUSE to attend this year
19:10:25 <wstephenson> the boosters had a useful meeting with Jos and AJ about the impact of SLE12 starting soon
19:10:26 <suseROCKs> looks like we will be covering more events in US this year than ever before, which is good.
19:10:38 <warlordfff> I will add something there one of these days
19:10:54 <suseROCKs> If you can add something, please do so at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_events#2012
19:11:03 <AlanClark> FunkyPenguin:  You can skip the Old Action Items topic - nothing new for that topic
19:11:17 <suseROCKs> getting as many events listed that we *might* be able to go to helps also for budgeting and DVD pressing allocations, etc.
19:11:22 <robjo> wstephenson: Anymore details on that?
19:11:23 <wstephenson> this will be the first SLE developed using OBS, so there may be social issues involved in all the SLE engineers turning up and wanting to play in 'our' sandpit
19:11:28 <FunkyPenguin> ok so next topic
19:11:38 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Where do we need to improve?
19:12:08 <mrdocs> wstephenson: cool about SLE12.. um did you have notes from that meeting ?
19:12:40 * FunkyPenguin needs to step afk and muzzle his kids for the night
19:12:50 <wstephenson> mrdocs: yes, need to blog them up
19:12:56 <mrdocs> nice
19:13:15 <mrdocs> robjo: this is your topic :)
19:14:05 <robjo> mrdocs: Well, I guess I need to jump over the shadow and move on from the ML effort that might never get finished.
19:14:20 <warlordfff> is it now the time to say something about openSUSE news?
19:14:39 <mrdocs> warlordfff: sure
19:14:40 <robjo> I'll pick things back up from the wiki and we can discuss more in the next meeting.
19:14:42 <warlordfff> ok
19:14:51 <AlanClark> thanks robjo
19:15:12 <mrdocs> robjo: great!
19:15:18 <warlordfff> we need to start more articles there
19:15:46 <warlordfff> don't get me wrong this is a wake up call for me too :)
19:17:18 <AlanClark> warlordfff:  Do you have a specific action to suggest?
19:17:25 <warlordfff> any thoughts
19:17:28 <warlordfff> nope
19:17:33 <AlanClark> warlordfff: such as topics, etc?
19:17:42 <warlordfff> I just say it in case you have any thoughts
19:17:55 <warlordfff> I am a bit burned those days
19:17:59 <warlordfff> :-)
19:18:43 <FunkyPenguin> next topic?
19:18:52 <robjo> yes
19:19:01 <FunkyPenguin> #topic Q&A
19:19:34 <suseROCKs> I thought of a great question last night while I was in bed.   But I should have written it down because I don't remember it when I woke up this morning.
19:19:51 <manugupt1> I have a question
19:20:01 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, go on
19:20:03 <manugupt1> to the board
19:20:35 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, yes?
19:21:04 <manugupt1> Since the new board has come up and everyone has given their thoughts on what they want in the near future.. I think the board should come up with a set of actionable items that are more visible and let known to the project in general
19:21:36 <manugupt1> Can this be done? The project till now honestly has little idea what board does
19:21:37 <izabelvalverde> where is the question? :D
19:21:42 <izabelvalverde> ok
19:22:06 <manugupt1> So I will like to know if the board can discuss and come up with a set of actionable items
19:22:09 <AlanClark> manugupt1: +1 - The board is going to be holding a F2F in February.  That meeting would be a great opportunity to draft this years board actions
19:22:33 <dchilton> _o/ ...  when/where do questions/topics that were raised on 'board@opensuse.org' list for board consideration actually get addressed?  in these online meetings?
19:23:16 <manugupt1> Thanks AlanClark
19:23:26 <mrdocs> dchilton: usually if it is a public issue, not all are
19:23:29 <FunkyPenguin> manugupt1, a fair request
19:23:37 <mrdocs> not all issues are public of course
19:23:47 <DarkMac> how long does a membership request gets answered?
19:24:16 <dchilton> mrdocs: so if we don't see them addressed here, or posted on the board site's agenda, we can/should expect follow up via our email?
19:24:18 <mrdocs> DarkMac: depends on the membership commitee's backlog
19:24:40 <suseROCKs> It might be a good idea to recommend to the community to send in their thoughts to board@opensuse.org of what they think are important topics they'd like the board to adopt
19:24:40 <mrdocs> dchilton: yes and if you do not get a reply poke us..
19:24:47 * AlanClark adds Manu's point to the F2F agenda
19:24:56 <mrdocs> manugupt1: very good suggesstion
19:26:22 <dchilton> mrdocs: will do.  who, specifically, has the responsibility for parsing @boardML issues into agenda items?  anyone in particular?
19:26:44 <manugupt1> Yes I have one more suggestion
19:26:51 <manugupt1> Regarding memberships
19:26:55 <FunkyPenguin> go on
19:26:57 <robjo> dchilton: If you have a public issue just ask now.
19:26:59 <AlanClark> dchilton:  Agenda items for this meeting should be placed on the wiki not mailed to @boardML
19:27:16 <manugupt1> Is there someway other members can recommend new members
19:27:22 <manugupt1> Like recommend as in with proof
19:27:40 <dchilton> robjo: I raised a board issue, and am asking obout how it's dealt with.  it's for the board to decide what to do with it.
19:27:48 <mrdocs> manugupt1: good point.. can we discuss this next meeting and add this as an agenda item
19:27:56 <dchilton> AlanClark: i was asked -- by a board member -- to mail to the board.
19:28:05 <manugupt1> mrdocs: Sure..
19:28:50 <DarkMac> mrdocs: more than 2 weeks???
19:29:01 <izabelvalverde> the board can influence membership process?
19:29:13 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: yes thats the board's job
19:29:45 <izabelvalverde> maugupt1 really?
19:29:45 <robjo> manugupt1: membership is the membership commitee's job, not the board
19:29:59 <izabelvalverde> robjo thanks, just to be sure
19:30:00 <manugupt1> robjo: Its been outsourced by board if I am correct
19:30:04 <suseROCKs> robjo,   yes and no.
19:30:12 <dragotin> manugupt1: that was it some time ago, now there is a committee
19:30:20 <suseROCKs> the board outsourced it and the board can actually go in the queue and vote on membership
19:30:34 <dragotin> but its still boards duty to maintain our exclusive club ;-)
19:30:35 <izabelvalverde> but just vote right?
19:30:37 <manugupt1> dragotin: Hmm.. Because the last time board voted on a few memberships around the elections time too
19:30:39 <suseROCKs> as even henne emphasized that recently here in project channel
19:31:33 <dragotin> yes, I think the final decision is with the board
19:31:34 <robjo> there's a difference between "being able to vote on" and "making a decision"
19:31:59 <dragotin> or would be, but they asked the committee to do it.
19:32:00 <dchilton> AlanClark: so, in THAT case ... who's responsible for propagating @ML issues onto the agenda?
19:32:03 <suseROCKs> and as dragotin  says, yes the board has the authority to override a membership decision
19:32:37 <dragotin> so be nice friendly to the king if you want to shoot a deer in the forrests
19:32:44 <izabelvalverde> hold on
19:32:46 <izabelvalverde> really?
19:33:27 <dragotin> izabelvalverde: I think so, yes. But that does not mean that there are no rules
19:33:30 <izabelvalverde> so if you are not close to the board they/you might cut you off?
19:33:35 <robjo> hopefully the board would only get involved in exceptional situations
19:33:36 <dragotin> nonono
19:34:00 <suseROCKs> robjo,   exactly
19:34:18 <dragotin> there are (at least some) defined criteria that need to be met if you want to become a member
19:34:21 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: Why would you think that? A membership application requires some proof
19:34:21 <izabelvalverde> I'm glad that our new board is awesome!
19:34:21 <robjo> izabelvalverde: No, membership should be decided as documented, based on proven contributions to the project
19:34:38 <dragotin> and the board has the (I guess unpleasent) job to decide about
19:35:06 <izabelvalverde> robjo thank you
19:35:06 <dragotin> It was not easy back in the time to fix a process for that at all
19:35:11 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 I agree
19:35:24 <dragotin> beside a "everybody who wants can become a member"
19:35:53 <dragotin> and it was decided that a proven contribution must exist
19:36:11 <dragotin> whatever that is: bugreports, wiki-work, packaging, marketing, whatever
19:36:23 <izabelvalverde> dragotin thank you
19:36:49 <robjo> member ship criteria are documented in the wiki
19:37:25 <AlanClark> Am I seeing volunteers for joining the membership committee? :-)
19:37:50 <warlordfff> I am in for that  :)
19:38:05 <izabelvalverde> well I just want to be sure that you don't need to be friend of the king ;)
19:38:14 <izabelvalverde> I'm out :D
19:38:27 <warlordfff> what do you mean izabelvalverde?
19:39:12 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde:  Best question for the membership committee - ask them if they feel they are controlled by a king.
19:39:13 <dragotin> izabelvalverde:  sorry, I was exaggerating
19:39:16 <izabelvalverde> I mean my friends are great but sometimes not much as I would want for support openSUSE ;)
19:39:31 <warlordfff> izabelvalverde: +1
19:39:34 <robjo> What we need is a way to prune the list. If one is a member but has not contributed in years, should they still be a member?
19:39:52 <warlordfff> this should be beyond personal relationships
19:40:02 <manugupt1> Also if someone is contributing more than even us over here and is not a member how do we identify it?
19:40:23 <AlanClark> The membership team has a tool they use to review candidates contributions
19:40:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,  some people choose to contribute and not be member for whatever personal reasons.    It's their decision, but we should try to encourage as much as possible to join
19:41:04 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: Some people would love to be but are not aware then
19:41:04 <suseROCKs> I think its interesting to note taht GNOME has approx. 350 members and we have appox. 500 members.   But ratio-wise, their membership is more active overall than ours.
19:41:06 <dragotin> manugupt1: I think membership is something people should start to think about and than investigate how they can join
19:41:27 <dragotin> suseROCKs: how do you become a GNOME member?
19:41:27 <manugupt1> Like I know Forum moderators are not members yet with an average of >5 posts per day
19:41:36 <manugupt1> dragotin: recommentation afaik
19:41:39 <dragotin> suseROCKs: its also not just "I want", right?
19:41:46 <robjo> suseROCKs: thanks for making my point about pruning the list ;)
19:41:55 <dchilton> sigh ...
19:42:19 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   sure.   I have poked many people to become membes and some feel they don't want to be members.  Others don't know much.  All we can do is make sure that membership applications are definitely available to all to attempt.
19:42:53 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: That is a topic for next meeting as mrdocs suggested and if people have a bit of time I can be here
19:42:55 <suseROCKs> dragotin,   In GNOME, you have to show contributions and be vetted by reference
19:42:56 <warlordfff> I think that members have a similar problem with the ambassadors
19:43:02 <izabelvalverde> in GNOME you apply saying your contributions and indicate 2-3 others that can "justify/approve" your words
19:43:37 <suseROCKs> dragotin,  also GNOME requires you to renew your membership every two years.
19:43:46 <warlordfff> I also think that in GNOME they examine your membership every 2 years,am I right?
19:43:53 <izabelvalverde> :)
19:43:54 <warlordfff> ok I am :)
19:43:56 <manugupt1> Also if some member can personally refer to people offcourse with proof.. It can be great
19:44:15 <robjo> there's a way for us to prune our list. Lets do something like that.
19:44:20 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 in gnome you need to apply
19:44:37 <warlordfff> as others said I also think that the member list could use some pruning
19:44:42 <robjo> Send an e-mail to members and verify their contributions over the last 2 years.
19:44:52 <warlordfff> +1 robjo
19:44:54 <suseROCKs> robjo,   I'm not sure we want to prune or if we want to grandfather in.   In any case, I think this is worthy of an ML discussion rather tan an IRC discussion in the middle of project meeting
19:45:01 <robjo> No reponse or no contributions, drop them.
19:45:07 <dragotin> robjo: why?
19:45:09 <izabelvalverde> robjo good +1
19:45:10 <warlordfff> yeap
19:45:14 <mrdocs> yes, lets discuss on ML
19:45:19 <manugupt1> mrdocs: +1
19:45:31 <warlordfff> but
19:45:31 <mrdocs> this needs to be aired out with feedback from everyone
19:45:31 <manugupt1> I agree MLs are the best way
19:45:38 <warlordfff> if a flame war start
19:45:44 <warlordfff> please someone stop it
19:45:44 <suseROCKs> I don't think we can drop members because in the beginning we told people it is lifetime.  We need to grandfather those in and make renewal rules only apply to subsequent new memberships.
19:45:46 <robjo> dragotin: Because we vote for board and get some 200 votes from 500 members, what does that mean?
19:46:09 <suseROCKs> warlordfff,  if a flame war starts, simply send to admin@ML   :-D
19:46:10 <robjo> Anyway, I agree, this is an ML discussion.
19:46:14 <dragotin> ok
19:46:30 <robjo> any other questions?
19:46:34 <izabelvalverde> maybe the old idea about vote on the last 2 elections
19:46:42 <warlordfff> +1
19:46:51 <manugupt1> Lets carry this at ML
19:46:53 <manugupt1> please
19:47:00 <warlordfff> who will open it?
19:47:05 <izabelvalverde> :D
19:47:13 <manugupt1> Board offcourse or the membership committee
19:47:27 * suseROCKs proposes robjo   He's a good topic moderator
19:47:36 <warlordfff> cool my opinion the sooner the better
19:47:37 <manugupt1> Thats upto them to decide though
19:47:53 <robjo> I'll do it, we know the board is reluctant to weigh in on these things.
19:48:06 <AlanClark> why?
19:48:16 <robjo> AlanClark: experience...
19:48:37 <warlordfff> I kind agree with robjo here
19:48:39 <robjo> Many governance discussions on ML get not response from the board.
19:48:51 <robjo> We discussed that topic 2 weeks ago.
19:49:04 <anditosan> sorry to interject, I know you're onto a different subject. But I remind you of our wallpaper contest. I know most of you have voted, if some of you have not, please do so here http://www.doodle.com/rci5689d49xkssbp#table
19:49:17 <manugupt1> thanks anditosan :)
19:49:30 <suseROCKs> great teamwork contributions, anditosan
19:49:33 * warlordfff thinks that board should be a bit more active on ML's
19:49:50 <warlordfff> anditosan:  indeed great work
19:50:04 <anditosan> :D
19:50:11 <manugupt1> Ok.. so will the board do it or robjo?
19:50:42 <warlordfff> +1 robjo from me
19:50:46 <suseROCKs> if the board opens the discussion, membership team might feel the board is trying to overstep them.  if robjo opens it, then team will see it as a open discussion started by the general community
19:51:17 <warlordfff> this topic shoulb be from the generall community
19:51:25 <AlanClark> it needs to be based on a proposal from the membership team
19:51:53 <izabelvalverde> Board question... Kostas and I will release this week the openSUSE Travel Program - or whatever it will be named :)
19:51:54 <manugupt1> My proposal : Is the board and membership team comes up with a proposal by next meeting or whatever time frame
19:52:07 <izabelvalverde> you guys will give us any feedback?
19:52:10 <manugupt1> and put it on discussion
19:52:20 <wstephenson> izabelvalverde: on my todo list...
19:52:52 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: ive looked at it twice, expect feed back soon
19:53:00 <izabelvalverde> Thank you ;)
19:53:02 <robjo> I will send a message, then people can rip it to pieces, or we might get some actionable items. Lets just see what happens.
19:53:15 <robjo> No need to have discussions about discussion....
19:53:26 <warlordfff> we started work based on the draft
19:53:29 <anditosan> robjo, +1
19:53:55 <warlordfff> with the 'openSUSE Travel Support Program' that is
19:54:14 <robjo> motion to adjourn
19:54:25 <izabelvalverde> wstephenson mrdocs we already supported one
19:54:35 <izabelvalverde> the Cerea Fair in Italy ;)
19:55:14 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde and warlordfff: Thanks for creating that proposal
19:55:40 <izabelvalverde> you're welcome :)
19:55:40 <warlordfff> :-)
19:56:19 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde: how do you plan to release the program?
19:56:38 <AlanClark> ie - how will people find out about it?
19:56:49 <izabelvalverde> an announcement
19:56:53 <AlanClark> cool
19:57:01 <izabelvalverde> set in the wiki as well
19:57:09 <manugupt1> AlanClark: izabelvalverde I am curios about one detail which I have faced in the past
19:57:26 <AlanClark> manugupt1: which is?
19:57:26 <izabelvalverde> later you can see manugupt1
19:57:50 <manugupt1> Places like India have almost the transfer amount is almost equal to sponsorship account
19:57:53 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 is hard to make it and with 100 sugestions is worst :D
19:58:00 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde & Kostas - perhaps this should be an agenda item for the next project meeting?
19:58:23 <izabelvalverde> AlanClark if the Board agree ok for me :)
19:58:44 <warlordfff> mee too
19:58:52 <manugupt1> that creates a problem while getting sponsorships for us
19:58:55 <AlanClark> +1
19:59:00 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 I just can say that we will treat all the people equaly as possible
19:59:12 <warlordfff> maybe if the board finishes the feedback by then even to present
19:59:19 <AlanClark> manugupt1:  I'm trying to work on the money transfer issue
19:59:30 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde: I agree on that
19:59:53 <warlordfff> sorry I did not get the problem
19:59:55 <manugupt1> AlanClark: thanks.. I am just trying to remind this again and again and offcourse I remember you working on it\
20:00:06 <AlanClark> warlordfff:  set a deadline for feedback
20:00:13 <manugupt1> so that it does not get missed out
20:00:17 <warlordfff> Fosdem
20:00:23 <izabelvalverde> too late
20:00:27 <warlordfff> ok
20:00:33 <izabelvalverde> sorry but fosdem is too late
20:00:35 <izabelvalverde> :)
20:00:45 <izabelvalverde> I've been working on it since november!
20:01:02 <izabelvalverde> we didn't release waiting for the new board
20:01:03 <warlordfff> yeah, mee too :D
20:01:15 <manugupt1> Ok.. Good night folks
20:01:17 <AlanClark> izabelvalverde & kostas - then go with the feedback you've received
20:01:24 <izabelvalverde> so surely mrdocs and wstepheson will help us too :D
20:01:28 <anditosan> manugupt1, night :D
20:01:38 <warlordfff> well, I would like to have feedback from the whole board
20:01:38 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: by end of day i reply
20:01:51 <izabelvalverde> mrdocs thank you :)
20:01:52 <robjo> izabelvalverde: thanks, but just because you have been working on this for a long time, that's not agood reason why fosdem is too late
20:02:28 <izabelvalverde> robjo maybe you are right but we have to start to work otherwise will lost a bit portion of money ;)
20:02:56 <robjo> now there's a good reason to set an earlier deadline.
20:03:05 <warlordfff> :)
20:03:08 <anditosan> :)
20:03:15 <AlanClark> yup - push ahead - we can always modify it if needed
20:03:22 <izabelvalverde> robjo my is personal... since november :D
20:04:02 <robjo> are we done then?
20:04:13 <anditosan> looks like it
20:04:50 <AlanClark> let's close
20:04:57 <robjo> motion to adjourn
20:05:33 <robjo> FunkyPenguin: #endmeeting ??
20:06:04 <DarkMac> grrrrr
20:06:18 <AlanClark> henne will be our moderator at the next meeting (he's next on the list and not here to object)
20:06:23 <AlanClark> #endmeeting