18:04:29 #startmeeting openSUSE Project Meeting 19-October-2011 18:04:29 Meeting started Wed Oct 19 18:04:29 2011 UTC. The chair is suseROCKs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:04:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:04:51 Good Morning, Good Afternoon and Good Evening folks (but not Good night because we don't want you to go to bed yet!) 18:05:07 not? 18:05:15 oh henne is awake! 18:05:47 Still doesn't meet a quorum though so we'll not do any formal voting today, but can discuss board-related matters.... 18:05:56 * suseROCKs pulls up the agenda now 18:06:24 Today's agenda is 1. Old Action Items (30 minutes) 18:06:24 There are project wide action items we need to discuss and specific board action items. 18:06:24 2. Status Reports (15 minutes) 18:06:24 Teams and individuals send various status reports around. For instance Coolo sends one for the distribution to opensuse-factory, the OBS team publishes meeting minutes on their mailinglist, the boosters their "What are the boosters up to" blogposts. Are there any questions regarding those or do we need to discuss anything in detail? Or does anyone wants to give a live status report of something? 18:06:25 3. 2012 elections 18:06:27 1. Action: The Election Committee will provide a progress report 18:06:29 4. permission@ requests (5 minutes) 18:06:31 Requests for use of the trademarks have been received through permission@. The board needs to vote on the following: 18:06:34 1. No requests to review 18:06:36 5. Policy for Displaying commercial offerings 18:06:38 1. Topic introduced by AJ 18:06:40 6. Where do we need to improve? (15 minutes) 18:06:44 This topic is about quick, small, actionable problems we have. Stuff we can solve between this and the next meeting. Everybody can add ideas to openFATE. 18:06:47 1. Followup from osc11 BoF ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:What_to_improve_osc11_session ) 18:06:50 7. Google Code-in (15 minutes) 18:06:52 8. Questions & Answers (30 minutes) 18:06:54 Here we discuss additional topics or questions that came up during the meeting. 18:06:56 You can also find this agenda at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_meeting 18:06:58 So, let's get started! 18:08:04 #chair suseROCKs henne aclark_ 18:08:04 Current chairs: aclark_ henne suseROCKs 18:08:13 ok now we can get started :-D 18:08:20 #topic Old Action Items 18:08:44 Ok so first in the list is Project AI's which can be found at http://bit.ly/opensuse_action_items 18:09:24 Ok so the first two are related. henne Any thoughts on this one? 18:09:57 thoughts? 18:10:20 Things that float around in your brain :-) 18:10:28 brain? ;) 18:10:39 'nuff said :-) 18:10:46 well no one has done any artwork or packaging around that topic 18:10:52 so they are dangling 18:11:05 is there a blocker or do we need to re-push it? 18:11:19 we have no one doing it 18:11:25 thats the blocker 18:11:31 ok 18:11:42 es 18:11:45 and as long as we don't have the "based on opensuse" artwork in packages 18:11:45 so we need to reach out and find people who can do the tasks 18:11:47 I saw Coolo doeing something there. 18:12:03 we can't apply the changes to the guidelines 18:12:22 AJaeger: you saw coolo doing what where? 18:12:34 henne: Checkc package branding-basedonopensuse 18:12:39 it's in factory 18:12:39 henne, he saw him doing that there :-) 18:12:50 * AJaeger didn't look closer, just saw the filename 18:13:18 * henne looks 18:13:28 ok so best step is to poke coolo and see what he's up to and if we can proceed from there 18:13:36 of course we can 18:13:45 poke poke! :-D 18:13:55 coolo: so what exactly did you do? the artwork? 18:14:05 the artwork and the packaging :) 18:14:35 I created a package that takes all branding-openSUSE packages and creates branding-basedonsuse packages from it replacing all artwork 18:14:36 .o0( coolo did artwork ) 18:14:42 coolo: Could you spell openSUSE correctly i nthe packagename, please? 18:14:52 where there is a geeko, there will be a "based on opensuse" text in nice wine red 18:15:11 AJaeger: no, it's not openSUSE after all 18:15:16 is this on git artwork repo? 18:15:31 cool 18:15:34 warlordfff: it's a branch I didn't push 18:15:44 I'm waiting for rlihm to move to github 18:15:51 where can we see that artwork? 18:15:57 oh ok 18:16:27 warlordfff: grab yourself a factory live cd and install branding-basedonsuse 18:16:36 onopensuse 18:16:38 We should probably do what we can to expedite usage and update our gudelines as I can think of at least some who will need this artwork soon with the 12.1 release coming up 18:17:02 henne: I was not sure what exactly is required from the artwork, but I wanted to give this whole stunt a starting point 18:17:08 coolo: I will , thanks 18:17:28 * aclark_ joins the meeting 18:17:35 coolo: as usual what you did is enough :) 18:17:43 coolo, and we all appreciate you pushed it forward. Truly! 18:18:09 does this enclude artwork for 12.1 cover? 18:18:13 Welcome Mr. AlanClark 18:18:16 henne: I also changed the KDE unstable livecd to use it, so we have a test bed 18:18:21 warlordfff, No this is for "based on" 18:18:25 alright 18:18:37 let's update the AIs then 18:18:45 http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Medias/images/iso/ 18:18:48 sorry I cannot understand the difference 18:18:52 * suseROCKs assigns henne to update the AI's then 18:19:10 warlordfff, "based on" means it is not original. 18:19:33 yeah ok but are we going to adopt that? 18:19:36 let me create a screenshot 18:19:58 warlordfff, For example. If you created a special distro called "Kosta's Amazing Greek CD" and it uses openSUSE, then you would use "Based on..." 18:20:28 ok, then another artwork question, do we have artwork for 12.1? 18:20:43 it is for third parties to use our products and trademarks with proper recognition and permissions in the guidelines 18:20:49 sorry I was abit off things for a while 18:20:59 warlordfff, yes but that's an artwork-team question 18:21:01 .o0( too much fire ) 18:21:28 ok I shut up now ;-) 18:21:37 okay I have updated the AI's 18:21:41 warlordfff: no, pls not! 18:21:47 next AI please 18:21:57 yes 18:22:18 http://coolo.homelinux.org/files/default-1280x1024.jpg - in all its beauty! 18:22:24 next one is the one that (was it cboltz or cb400f?) was working on. I think we need to revie this again becuse of 12.1 soon to be released 18:22:48 coolo now I got it 18:22:50 this is getting nowhere again... 18:23:01 agreed henne 18:23:06 but lets keep it open for a few more meetings 18:23:23 yes as the person is not here to speak on it... 18:23:24 coolo: beauty.... ;-) 18:23:24 until we kill it :) 18:23:38 Dind' cboltz send some kind of proposal to a list a month or two ago? 18:23:41 next one is the GCI AI but we have a specific topic in the agenda for that so let's move on to board items 18:23:59 but I do not remember a discussion 18:24:17 suseROCKs: Can we do the GCI AI now 18:24:24 robjo: there was a discussion in the project meeting after this proposal 18:24:38 just two short lines: AJaeger has sent me a mail where he explains what difficulties can come up when shipping gifts world-wide 18:24:39 Its late here in India 18:24:48 henne: OK, thanks missed that meeting, too much traveling 18:24:55 I tried to call him several times, but it seems he's everywhere except in the office ;-) 18:25:12 he's here now :-) 18:25:18 (and there was also some delay on my side because of grape harvest etc, so it's not AJ's fault ;-) 18:25:30 wish we could clone AJ 18:25:39 manugupt1, let's quickly cover the Board AAI's and then we'll move up GCI as the next formal topic, okay? 18:25:45 Ok 18:25:47 AlanClark: I wish that too ;-) 18:26:11 Better to clone AJ than me. Cloning me would result in high shipping costs.... 18:26:11 My own personal AJ 18:26:36 ;-) 18:26:40 cboltz: You called me? Sorry, Never noticed ;-( let's figure out an appropriate time for both of us via email... 18:26:59 cboltz, ok can you revive this so we can be on track again? Give us some kind of update at the next meeting? 18:27:23 suseROCKs: I hope so ;-) 18:27:28 Thanks 18:27:38 ok let's quickly look at http://bit.ly/opensuse_board_ais and then jump back to GCI 18:27:42 okay can we move on? 18:27:55 henne, we already did. Try to keep up, ok? :-) 18:28:14 yes gramp 18:28:15 ok so the two board AI's really aren't moving at this time so I think there's nothing to discuss 18:28:41 the second one is just open for documentation purposes ;) 18:28:58 What about susebugreporter? 18:28:59 Pretty much LOL 18:29:12 I know I need to move on the first one 18:29:29 manugupt1, What about it? 18:29:47 Well it was a soc project dont know much but can be used I guess 18:30:05 brb 18:30:14 that's kind of a different topic 18:30:35 let's talk about GCI now 18:30:47 #topic Google Code-In 18:31:07 Ok.. Who speaks? 18:31:12 So we have an action item to look into GCI when it becomes announced and according to manugupt1 it is now announced. 18:31:27 manugupt1, if you'd like to lead this topic, the floor is yours 18:31:57 http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2011 18:32:49 yes it has been, the problem is we never had any sort of junior jobs ( although it was said we had) it is a perfect time to start them 18:33:17 suseROCKs: sure 18:33:32 we do have a junior jobs page (though I don't recall the link offhand) but we most definitely can focus on it to create more opportunities. 18:33:38 AIs regarding this is making a junior jobs page 18:33:52 maybe use google to find it 18:33:52 manugupt1, but my biggest concern right now is the timieline (I cannot read it legibly on the website) but last year's occured during xmas holidays 18:33:53 suseROCKs: I dont think it is good enough, I could never understand it personally 18:33:56 just an idea ;) 18:34:34 http://en.opensuse.org/Junior_jobs 18:35:05 so can someone read the timeline on google's site and tell what the timeline is? 18:35:13 ok.. so I would like people to work on things that they think can be done easily specially by respective teams and the idea is to divide tasks into 3 parts 18:35:15 manugupt1 - how do we get those Junior_jobs listed on GCI? 18:35:47 suseROCKs: November 9, 2011: Open Source Projects are announced 18:35:54 suseROCKs: November 21, 2011, 12:00 AM Pacific Time / 08:00 UTC: Contest opens for entries by student participants 18:36:01 AlanClark: Same as last time when we submit the application basically GCI focussees on code refractoring, documentation, community management , translation, bug reports etc 18:36:02 suseROCKs: January 16, 2012, 12:00 AM Pacific Time / 08:00 UTC: All work stops 18:36:26 ok so that means people work on their projects between Nov 21 and Jan 16, right? 18:36:44 what else would it mean? 18:36:53 if so, then that's actually better and more workable than last year's which was a 2 week period occurring during xmas holidays 18:37:08 So while we have a vague list of things but in the next week we need atleast some tasks ( divided into 3 categories like easy,medium and difficult) 18:37:10 and ending on some insane date like Jan 3rd or something 18:37:32 Now, I need to know who can volunteer for this 18:37:55 well manugupt1 you're jumping the gun just a little bit here.... 18:38:24 the first quesiton is what teams do we poke to ask them to come up with their lists of junior jobs and willing mentors 18:38:25 suseROCKs: ok.. what did I miss 18:38:39 Yes.. that is what I was going to do next 18:39:00 robjo: I have read your mail, maybe improving the website could go there? 18:39:05 what I would like to see us do today is decide who owns this initiative and let that person drive it 18:39:09 (could be manugupt1?) 18:39:21 suseROCKs: I cannot look into all teams.. 18:39:41 manugupt1, no I mean to drive the GCI initiative. You can certainly ask people to assist you in poking teams 18:39:42 I would like team leaders from the team to decide what is most important for them 18:39:42 can you look into finding someone who can? 18:39:52 we don't have team leaders 18:39:54 But we need someone who takes the accountability for this 18:39:58 we're not a company 18:40:08 henne: I mean who know the most or work a lot on it 18:40:26 looks to me manugupt1 already volunteered to drive the issue ;) 18:40:37 sure sounded like it, robjo :-) 18:40:39 suseROCKs: I can but there are some dates when I wont be available so I need one more person during that time 18:40:51 manugupt1, I can help you 18:40:55 I just noticed on their timeline that November 9, 2011: Open Source Projects are announced 18:41:10 yes, we must work blazingly fast here 18:41:15 Exactly 18:41:19 (and I wonder how we can find HS kids) 18:41:21 Basically we have to weeks to pull our stuff together 18:41:31 Yes 18:41:38 I don't see that there are mentors involved. The students simply ask for help? 18:41:38 * AJaeger is back 18:41:41 robjo, Care to join the team? 18:41:41 are we talking about coding? 18:41:50 warlordfff: Not exactly 18:42:01 can you explain fast? 18:42:05 tasks: code, documentation, outreach, QA, ... 18:42:14 maybe I can help 18:42:28 if someone can guide me a bit 18:42:28 suseROCKs: I will volunteer as a mentor if we get accepted and get students 18:42:42 robjo: Thanks 18:42:46 henne: ?? 18:42:55 yes? 18:43:13 henne: With the wiki.. Just restructure the wiki todo list 18:43:18 hehe henne is an awesome deflector :-) 18:43:27 also a mentor :) 18:43:35 manugupt1: sorry come again? 18:43:36 warlordfff: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-code-in-are-you-in.html 18:43:46 manugupt1: whats with the wiki? 18:43:48 manugupt1: need to worry about making a list of projects first 18:43:56 Exactly 18:43:58 ok let's not bikeshed the GCI discussion here now 18:44:04 I could not put it better 18:44:08 ok I can help in at least two 18:44:16 Manu has taken the lead on this and we (his faithful minoins) will work with him to cover all the details 18:44:22 Documentation and Translation 18:44:23 I'm trying to find how/what is required from us as a project to sign-up. manugupt1 can you point me to the form? 18:44:41 AlanClark: Not yet announced, I am subscribed to the ML 18:44:46 manugupt1: you should send an e-mail to the project list announcing the effort and asking people to send you ideas for junior jobs 18:45:12 robjo: Sure.. I wil make a format for the GCI task list wiki and then send an idea tomorrow asap 18:45:25 Great 18:45:34 So can we close this discussion and let manugupt1 do the deeds? 18:45:41 +1 18:45:59 yes please 18:46:02 yep, pick it up in the next meeting and see what the feedback from the project was 18:46:16 robjo: Next meeting would be too late so mails are faster 18:46:28 #action manugupt1 will lead the Google Code-In initiative. robjo and suseROCKs will join in as his assistants in preparing for the organization 18:46:30 manugupt1: yes 18:47:17 I am done.. 18:47:17 ok so we are done with action items and in fact Topic #7... let's move on to next topic 18:47:23 #topic Status Reports 18:47:42 Can anyone here submit statuses on their respective teams/initiatives? 18:47:48 * suseROCKs looks at coolo 18:48:19 Anyone else? 18:48:33 * henne hears the wolves howling 18:48:55 coolo - we still on target for November 16? 18:48:58 Are you sure its not the vuvuzelas everyone at Brainshare was given? 18:49:12 I can say what the boosters did recently, if thats interesting 18:49:23 yes please dragotin 18:49:31 AlanClark: we do AFAIK 18:49:49 dragotin, Please include your lunch venues :-) 18:50:20 so we ended a Milestone that was called "Upstream attraction program" and was about explaining more in detail how upstream projects can benefit from OBS 18:50:48 work went into the OBS webpage, a ready-to-use webpage snippet for upstream projects and such 18:51:08 is this the new ci.o.o thing I briefly read yesterday? 18:51:10 something like: http://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home:hennevogel&package=ctris 18:51:19 why was so little noise about? Well, we could not launch it yet because we still do not have a machine to host the website 18:51:24 that stuff takes time. 18:51:32 at the moment 18:51:46 that was the last milestones. Sweet stuff I'd say 18:52:09 Than we decided to start a 12.1 Milestone 18:52:12 we also worked on revamping the obs.org webpage 18:52:37 were we will spend some time on the 12.1 release and help wherever help is needed 18:52:44 and doing screencasts :-) 18:53:08 ie. updating the infrastructure, bugfixing, triaging, fixing texts here and there, marketing and such 18:53:16 yeah you can see some nice OBS screencasts on digitltoms vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/digitaltom 18:53:26 I'd like to mention that dragotin and I had a discussion earlier today about how to better collaborate and keep each other informed between what boosters and marketing team do so we can double our efforts rather than duplicate them 18:53:29 everybody can see the planning of the efforts at http://retro.opensuse.org 18:53:32 no account needed 18:53:40 I think we had a productive discussion and will lead to more frutful collaboration in the future. 18:54:09 yes, so whenever you have the feeling a booster is disturbing your work, beat him up and than tell me and I do it even harder 18:54:23 ...except if its me ;_) 18:54:25 dragotin, you hae to promise to videotape that! 18:54:38 everything is video-taped and syncronised by henne 18:54:55 :-) 18:55:00 ok any other statuses to report? 18:55:07 .o0( actually he tried to do a video-sync today 10000times in our office) 18:55:15 dragotin - way cool stuff. thanks for the urls 18:55:46 expect some detailed report about the finished milestone soon 18:55:50 and again, please if something seems strange what we do, please speak up frankly and quickly 18:56:08 dragotin, what if we just simply think you're strange? 18:56:26 and suseROCKs volunteered to double check the retro list if we already interfere with somebody somewhere - thanks for that 18:56:44 yes 18:57:19 ok so we have all the status reports we could possibly get now except for one... Election Committee 18:57:28 warlordfff, can you give us a status on that? 18:57:32 yeap 18:57:37 well 18:57:48 we decided to change the dates 18:57:50 Note: This is actually also Topic #3) 18:58:18 should i continue? 18:58:20 The election is tomorrow and today is my last day here? :-) 18:58:32 nop 18:58:38 darn :-) 18:58:52 should I go on or should I wait? 18:58:58 go on 18:58:59 warlordfff: go 18:59:05 warlordfff: What dates? 18:59:06 ok 18:59:10 so 18:59:22 The time-line we decided for this years elections is the following: 18:59:22 * 28.10. Start of standing up for candidacy, apply for membership 18:59:22 * 25.11. Start of campaign 18:59:22 * 2.12. Ballots open 18:59:22 * 16.12. End of voting 18:59:24 * 19.12. Announcement of the results 18:59:45 that's it for the dates but there are more 18:59:54 * AlanClark notes that the rest of the world reads calendars backwards 18:59:57 I think the dates are up at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election 19:00:21 warlordfff: Write 28th October - or 2011-10-28 to not confuse Alan ;) 19:00:22 yeap they are 19:00:42 well ok 19:00:47 I'm not confused ;-) 19:00:47 ;-) 19:00:49 is this widely announced yet? 19:00:52 ISO format please :) 19:00:56 nop 19:01:10 yaloki, what does DVDs have to do with this? You're off topic! :-) 19:01:26 so we think that we will anounce oficially on lists around the 28 of Octomber 19:01:40 warlordfff: good work, thanks 19:01:46 yeah combine those announcements 19:01:51 yeap 19:01:52 warlordfff, You should announce before then so people can prepare and think about it before standing up 19:02:05 we will also make the announcement on news 19:02:06 they have a month to think about it 19:02:25 suseROCKs: http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/iso-date 19:02:33 Question: Have we stated a cut off date for when one has to be a member in order to vote? 19:02:34 well the first date is for that 19:02:34 and announcements that require immediate actions are always better 19:03:18 AlanClark, traditionally, all applications have to be completed *before* the start of elections. So techically I guess the cutoff date is 1 minute before elections :-D 19:03:18 suseROCKs: I am with henne on that 19:03:42 also 19:03:54 So my qustion is has the membership team been consulted to ensure they can meet that deadline? 19:04:00 * henne gets out the ouzu 19:04:25 we said that we will make a series of articles to promote the elections so more people will vote 19:04:42 the wiki page implies that people have to apply for membership within 4 weeks of Oct 28 in order to be able to vote 19:05:01 oh? 19:05:02 yeap 19:05:04 that's not good 19:05:08 warlordfff - would you please add date for membership application 19:05:25 ? 19:05:31 the election is typically our "membeship drive" as well. If we're cutting people off on membership before Oct 28th, that's opposite of what we have done in the past 19:05:36 this is 28/10 19:06:01 anyone can aply earlier 19:06:16 anyone can apply anytime for member 19:06:17 28/10 = 2.8 19:06:19 warlordfff, so no one who applies in November can vote in December? 19:06:28 warlordfff - 28/10 + 4 weeks = Novmber 25th? 19:06:28 AlanClark: appears to me the date depends on how quickly these things can be processed, not sure the election committee has much influence on that process 19:06:43 AlanClark: yes 19:07:07 robjo - not the process date; the last date someone can apply for membership and be eligle to vote 19:07:08 suseROCKs: it's the same procedure as always, people have 4 weeks to apply for membership 19:07:24 brb 19:07:34 suseROCKs: until 25.11. 19:07:45 d1g1tltom, yes but what robjo is saying and what warlordfff subsequently nodded to is that you have to apply before oct 28. 19:07:50 yeap we only change the dates 19:08:02 noooooooo 19:08:05 or rather what robjo is saying is that the language imiplies you have to apply before Oct 28 19:08:10 read the sceduale 19:08:30 AlanClark: That's what I said, if I apply on Oct 29 and my application isn't processed in time it doesn't matter 19:08:32 suseROCKs: the earlier they apply the higher the chance is the the membership team can look at them 19:08:33 oh you know what we mean man 19:08:59 it all depends on how fast membership applications can be processed. 19:09:13 +1 19:09:21 the people that process the applications need to set the cut off date 19:09:35 and I ask again (question was not answered earlier) has the membership team been consulted on this? 19:09:44 but I don't think this would be a problem 19:09:49 nop 19:09:54 they have not 19:09:58 robjo - good point - do we have a member of the membership team at this meeting that can respond to this question? 19:10:07 wait people please 19:10:10 you need to consult with them. It is not respectful to impose a date on them without their opportunity to provide feedback 19:10:28 +1 19:10:35 the distance between the dates is the same as the previous years 19:10:52 the only we changed is the actual dates 19:10:53 in fact that is what we said in the email invitation to you to join the election team, that you need to communicate with the membership team. 19:10:55 warlordfff: do not assume, ask them please 19:11:08 Please contact them promptly and make sure it is okay before assuming. 19:11:37 The membership team has expressed in the past that they do not like being told what to do. We need to respect their territory. 19:11:52 ok, I will talk to the others and anyway after the meeting i will send the e-mail 19:12:05 ok? 19:12:21 Thank you 19:12:23 thanks 19:12:27 I cannot understand something though 19:12:34 yes? 19:13:09 we did not change the distance between the dates, so why this year you assume it will be a problem? 19:13:27 warlordfff, no you misread. I didn't object to distance 19:13:42 warlordfff: do you know that it was not a problem for the last eleaction? 19:13:49 I was merely focusing on what robjo said was the textual impression of cutoff dates for membership. But that's now clarified. And not an issue 19:14:15 guys, I am the messenger here 19:14:25 don't shoot 19:14:38 who's shooting? 19:14:38 * henne hits warlordfff 19:14:44 * yaloki hits henne 19:14:44 henne is :-D 19:14:54 warlordfff, we are merely asking questions. Can't we do that? 19:14:56 * dragotin hides under the table 19:15:04 warlordfff: yes, all we are asking is that someone from the election committee ask the membership committee how much time they need to process apps prior to election date. 19:15:29 ok 19:15:39 warlordfff - a suggestion for the election wiki page. Would you add a sentence explaining where a list of "approved" candidates will be maintained. 19:15:42 what i once again assume was the following 19:15:52 whatever the answer, that's the date that goes on the page 19:16:17 we have Thomas in the group that was also in the previous election committees ,so that is why 19:16:36 I never thought it would be a problem 19:16:45 robjo, Exactly. Scheduling in the past has often been influenced by membership team's ability to meet the deadlines. We always have a high rush of membership applications during this period compared to the rest of the year 19:16:46 since he did not mention nothing 19:17:16 warlordfff, That's fine, its a learning process :-) 19:17:22 AlanClark: we are not finished yet, I guess we will do that 19:18:03 warlordfff: Thanks 19:18:18 sorry guys there are really a lot of things in that procedure I don't yet know 19:18:20 ok anything else on this topic? 19:18:32 Thanks warlordfff for the update. Keep up the good work! 19:18:34 warlordfff, that's fine and not a problem to ask :-) 19:18:37 did i said about the articles? 19:18:46 yes 19:19:00 ok then nothing else for now 19:19:01 warlordfff: Feel free to ask me as well since I wrote the current election rules... 19:19:16