18:02:09 <mrdocs> #startmeeting openSUSE project meeting 18:02:09 <bugbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 21 18:02:09 2011 UTC. The chair is mrdocs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:02:09 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:02:11 <AJaeger> dragotin: Yes, meeting! 18:02:15 * suseROCKs wonders if that's going to make dragotin run now 18:02:15 <dragotin> even better 18:02:30 <mrdocs> #chairs prusnak suseROCKs AlanClark mrdocs 18:02:45 <suseROCKs> I assume henne is on FTO? 18:02:51 <mrdocs> #chair prusnak suseROCKs AlanClark mrdocs 18:02:51 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark mrdocs prusnak suseROCKs 18:02:51 <dragotin> he is 18:02:53 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Yes, he is 18:03:19 <mrdocs> #chair henne 18:03:19 <bugbot> Current chairs: AlanClark henne mrdocs prusnak suseROCKs 18:03:23 <mrdocs> just in case 18:03:35 <mrdocs> shall we begin ? 18:03:37 <AlanClark> Have we heard from Rupert? 18:03:47 <mrdocs> not recently 18:04:01 <AlanClark> ok, on with the agenda 18:04:08 <dragotin> I run to another computer, see you soon 18:04:10 <mrdocs> #topic Old Action Items 18:04:23 <mrdocs> #info http://bit.ly/opensuse_action_items 18:05:12 <suseROCKs> I don't think there's anything discussable in that list right now 18:05:24 <suseROCKs> they're almost all stagnated for various reasons 18:05:26 * mrdocs nods 18:06:04 <suseROCKs> hmm that should be a new status item for bugzilla "Status = Stagnated" :-) 18:06:07 <mrdocs> #info http://bit.ly/opensuse_board_ais 18:06:12 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: Stuck 18:06:38 <suseROCKs> thought Stuck meant Breakfast :-) 18:06:41 <mrdocs> bug 670594 18:06:41 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 670594 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Write an announcement about the new process of creating the foundation." [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670594 18:06:58 <mrdocs> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=670590 18:07:01 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 670590 in openSUSE.org (Board) "user search for bugzilla" [Normal,New] 18:07:04 <suseROCKs> all items here is also stagnated/stuck 18:07:09 * mrdocs nods 18:07:16 * mrdocs moves on 18:07:32 <mrdocs> #topic Status Reports 18:07:47 <mrdocs> wstephenson: vuntz anything from Desktop Teams ? 18:08:14 <vuntz> mrdocs: usual package updates 18:08:22 <dragotin> re 18:08:33 <mrdocs> dragotin: ? 18:08:43 <dragotin> yes 18:09:05 <mrdocs> thought you had something to report, other than beer consumption at OSC :) 18:09:08 <suseROCKs> he's just saying he's back in case we didn't miss him, but fact is, we ALWAYS miss dragotin! 18:09:17 * mrdocs nods 18:09:22 <suseROCKs> wait... there was beer??? 18:09:31 <dragotin> sorry, didn't want to confuse 18:09:38 <mrdocs> dragotin: NP 18:09:46 <mrdocs> next any other status reports ? 18:09:58 <suseROCKs> Beta of 12.1 has been delayed by up to two weeks 18:10:02 <mrdocs> yes 18:10:10 <mrdocs> good thing methinks 18:10:30 <suseROCKs> another status update.... Marketing team had its hackfest this past Thurs and Friday 18:10:48 <suseROCKs> a lot of tasks got assigned and we'll see some good results in time for 12.1 release day I'm sure 18:10:50 * manugupt1 will say what he did at the fest 18:10:58 <suseROCKs> go for it, manugupt1 18:11:06 <mrdocs> manugupt1: we are all ears 18:11:09 <manugupt1> Well we plan to work on openqa 18:11:27 <mrdocs> awesome 18:11:28 <manugupt1> We have release announcements ready and me and Jos wants to make it the next big software at openSUSE 18:11:42 <manugupt1> Something like openSUSE Project = openSUSE + OBS + OpenQA 18:11:47 <manugupt1> We have 5 articles ready 18:11:56 <manugupt1> Bernhard is making a 1.0 release soon 18:12:02 <mrdocs> great stuff ! :) 18:12:18 <manugupt1> By 11th october it should be on news / media 18:12:28 <manugupt1> and then a series of howtos if the media agrees 18:12:29 <mrdocs> #info openqa will make a 1.0 release by 11 Oct 18:12:44 <manugupt1> That is what the plan is 18:12:46 * dragotin doesn't really like the equation 18:13:00 <suseROCKs> dragotin, what would you suggest? 18:13:08 <manugupt1> Anyone can chip in here http://ietherpad.com/openqa 18:13:21 <manugupt1> Ok.. We just thought and would like 18:13:31 <dragotin> openSUSE is still more than openSUSE + OBS + OpenQA 18:13:54 <dragotin> for example community :-) 18:14:00 <manugupt1> dragotin: But its not public yet.. something we need to work on I agree 18:14:08 <dragotin> ok 18:14:10 <manugupt1> dragotin: We are the biggest community no one can beat that :) 18:14:19 <manugupt1> The whole world agrees 18:14:20 <AlanClark> I agree with dragotin. There's more to the project. 18:14:20 <suseROCKs> dragotin, well you're right about that. During the "Message BoF' at the conference, people wanted the distro to be distinctively named. "openSUSE" should be generic, while Distro should be something like "openSUSE Distro" or something like that 18:14:30 <mrdocs> + good beer :) 18:14:52 <suseROCKs> and I will be publishing my BoF report tomorrow on the Message BoF 18:14:57 <dragotin> suseROCKs: good point to have openSUSE set free 18:15:24 <mrdocs> anything else for this ? 18:15:29 <mrdocs> any other reports ? 18:15:34 <suseROCKs> how about a conference report? 18:15:41 <suseROCKs> overall stats and such? 18:15:41 <coolo> we can name it coolOpensuse :) 18:15:48 <mrdocs> coolo: :D 18:15:50 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: One has already been published during the hackfest 18:15:51 <dragotin> coolo: lol 18:15:57 <manugupt1> but more are welcome :) 18:16:08 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, yes but I'm saying a status report that is entered into the record here 18:16:20 <manugupt1> Oh.. sorry.. 18:16:24 <coolo> dragotin: of course written with the stereo sign where the O is 18:16:33 <AlanClark> osc11 huge success, what more can be said? 18:16:47 * mrdocs was really sad to miss it 18:17:03 <suseROCKs> Did we raise some decent funds from beer and t-shirt sales? 18:17:04 * AlanClark wonders what happened to the left over beer? 18:17:16 <mrdocs> AlanClark: prolly none left ;) 18:17:19 <dragotin> AlanClark: its in the office 18:17:19 <manugupt1> Awesome beer and pizzas and lots of cheese 18:17:28 <prusnak> i guess we now know why we haven't seen henne since the conference ended :) 18:17:31 <AlanClark> by the way, henne never brewed that root beer for me ;-) 18:17:34 <dragotin> AlanClark: the next event is on october 22nd 18:17:50 <mrdocs> dragotin: where ? 18:17:51 <izabelvalverde> for me was great cause I'll step into wiki team to help henne 18:17:52 <suseROCKs> What s on Oct 22nd? 18:18:11 <dragotin> An event called "Lange Nacht der Wissenschaften" 18:18:21 <dragotin> its a Nuremberg local event 18:18:22 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: awesome... big necessary job :) 18:18:31 <dragotin> of tech companies, universities and such 18:18:36 <suseROCKs> dragotin, are you just saying that to try to get me to twist my tongue? 18:18:52 <dragotin> we have a room there at the university in Nbg. 18:19:01 <yaloki> suseROCKs: now I am, sorry, kids → bed and such 18:19:03 <dragotin> and will see more than 1000 people there probabbly 18:19:10 <izabelvalverde> mrdocs besides a great team ;-) 18:19:22 <mrdocs> yaloki: o/ 18:19:31 <AlanClark> dragotin; glad to see it go to good use 18:19:39 <suseROCKs> Speaking of events... openSUSE Community will be making its first official appearance at Brainshare in 3 weeks from now as special guests of SUSE. W00T! 18:19:51 <mrdocs> yup 18:20:03 <mrdocs> big important place for visibilty 18:20:07 <mrdocs> next 18:20:14 <mrdocs> any other remaining reports ? 18:20:16 <manugupt1> and also comment on this it would be great for a few people I know and have mentioned there http://sysbytes.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/opensuse-india/ :) 18:21:26 <mrdocs> manugupt1: make sure those are on planet and in news where appropriate 18:21:29 <suseROCKs> ok mrdocs I guess that's all the status updates 18:21:37 * mrdocs moves on 18:21:40 <manugupt1> mrdocs: yes.. 18:21:59 <mrdocs> #topic 2012 elections 18:22:15 <bear454> Do we really have to talk politics ? 18:22:18 <yaloki> :) 18:22:29 <mrdocs> who wants to start on that one.. anyone from current commitee 18:22:31 <mrdocs> ? 18:22:34 <suseROCKs> only when it involves your extreme leftist views, bear454 :-) 18:22:39 <yaloki> we have a commitee yet ? 18:22:41 <suseROCKs> mrdocs, I'll take this one 18:22:52 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: go go go 18:22:56 <AJaeger> mrdocs: There's no current committee - just the one from the last election;) 18:23:02 <suseROCKs> no we don't have a committee yet, but AlanClark and I have already begun drafting the request for volunteers 18:23:34 <suseROCKs> it requires the board to review the text and modify where appropriate and then I'll post it ASAP where relevant 18:23:35 <suseROCKs> http://ietherpad.com/board-elections 18:23:37 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: what else needs doing ? 18:23:39 <izabelvalverde> I can step into committee if it needed 18:23:58 <AlanClark> need to mention that we discussed the elections at the osc general meeting. 18:24:05 * suseROCKs adds izabelvalverde to the committee list of volunteers 18:24:36 <AlanClark> Thanks izabelvalverde! 18:24:40 <yaloki> izabelvalverde: kudos 18:24:44 * mrdocs wonders if oy would also help 18:25:06 <AlanClark> we had 2 people volunteer at the general meeting 18:25:17 <yaloki> wstephenson: would you be interested in being in the election committee again? if I'm not mistaken, you were part of it last time 18:25:19 <mrdocs> AlanClark: how many do we need in total 18:25:32 <AJaeger> Deadline of 7th October is too long IMO. Let's get this out and have it closed before the next project meeting 18:25:35 <suseROCKs> 237, mrdocs 18:25:48 <drago> yaloki: I think it was digitltom 18:26:01 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, that's fine too. We litterally made this draft an hour ago and its just a brain dump as of now 18:26:11 <yaloki> drago: oh.. but wstephenson was in in the time before then, I'm pretty sure he was 18:26:11 <AlanClark> AJaeger, I agree 18:26:14 <yaloki> :) 18:26:58 <yaloki> ok, so once we have the committee we need a time frame 18:27:04 <AJaeger> Last year it was digitltom, Sascha Manns, Stathis Iosifidis, Satoru Matsumoto 18:27:05 <mrdocs> exactly 18:27:09 <yaloki> I already announced I'm running 18:27:37 <AJaeger> yaloki: You need to announce it properly once the election committee has declared how to do it ;) 18:27:42 <yaloki> AJaeger: yep 18:27:44 <suseROCKs> yaloki, the time frame is primarily designed by the committee itself 18:27:52 <yaloki> correct 18:27:53 <suseROCKs> so the sooner we get the committee formed, the sooner the time frame evolves 18:27:57 <AJaeger> yaloki: But it means you should not join the election committee... 18:28:03 <yaloki> AJaeger: I know, I won't :) 18:28:17 <oy> mrdocs: yes, I would help 18:28:18 <AlanClark> not to speak for digitom, in talking to him he said he would help. He's not available to lead, but will help with the technical stuff 18:28:28 <yaloki> kudos to oy too! 18:28:40 <suseROCKs> ok so we have two volunteers now 18:28:48 <suseROCKs> do we want to set a cap for number of volunteers? 18:28:52 <mrdocs> oy: yes... i think you have done a lot and certainly are trustworthy 18:28:56 <yaloki> wasn't it 5 people ? 18:28:58 <yaloki> or 3 ? 18:29:16 <mrdocs> 4 last year 18:29:25 <AlanClark> let's cap it at 5 18:29:29 <yaloki> I wonder whether 3 would be sufficient, actually 18:29:33 <izabelvalverde> suseROCKs who's 2? 18:29:35 <AJaeger> "The election is run by an Election Committee that consists of at least three openSUSE members. The Election Committee is appointed for each election by the board. " 18:29:40 <suseROCKs> izabelvalverde, you and Oy 18:29:43 * AJaeger cites the rules 18:29:50 <yaloki> and, as AlanClark said, probably digitltom too 18:30:03 <mrdocs> ok so 18:30:04 <yaloki> so we might have 3 already 18:30:16 <yaloki> oy: weren't you on one of those committees in the past ? 18:30:25 <suseROCKs> well digitltom never really considred himself an active member of the past teams, just a tech assistant iirc 18:30:29 <AJaeger> yaloki: No, he was not. 18:30:31 <yaloki> would be good to know from someone who has been there whether 3 is enough 18:30:38 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: He was active. 18:30:43 <yaloki> hmmm okay 18:30:45 <suseROCKs> ok 18:30:51 <mrdocs> #info izabelvalverde oy and 2 others have volunteered to work on Election Commitee 18:30:56 <AJaeger> yaloki: You need two active and committed people ;) 18:30:59 <mrdocs> any action items ? 18:31:03 * yaloki is being too practical right now :> 18:31:08 <suseROCKs> so does this mean we don't have to do an announcement after all? :-) 18:31:18 <AJaeger> So, should we just make the three the commitee and not do a call for volunteers? 18:31:24 <mrdocs> yeah, we annouce the appointments 18:31:28 <yaloki> AJaeger: +1 18:31:29 <AlanClark> let's do the announcement 18:31:35 <mrdocs> no i we still ask 18:31:39 <prusnak> suseROCKs: please do, but sent it ASAP 18:31:41 * nmarques loves democracy 18:31:48 <mrdocs> so if someone wants to, can raise their hand 18:31:59 <suseROCKs> prusnak, ok but we need to make sure the text is agreeable. 18:32:11 <suseROCKs> Also AJaeger proposes a different deadline date for volunteers. What is the new date proposed? 18:32:23 <AJaeger> mrdocs: Then make a short timeline - next project meeting is on the 5th, so make the deadline the 4th. 18:32:35 <yaloki> AJaeger: yeah true, that's probably better indeed 18:32:36 <suseROCKs> ok I'll modify it then 18:32:49 * suseROCKs modifies and will send out after the meeting 18:33:05 <mrdocs> #action item - AlanClark suseROCKs to make announcement calling for Election Commitee volunteers 18:33:12 <suseROCKs> if there4s any other textual polishings, please speak now or forever hold your peace :-) 18:33:13 <AlanClark> of those who volunteered today, are any of you williing to lead the committee? 18:33:28 <izabelvalverde> I'm not :-D 18:33:36 <mrdocs> #action deadline 4 Oct 18:33:44 <prusnak> the text looks ok to me 18:33:46 <bear454> AlanClark: what's involved in "leading the committee" ? 18:33:47 <mrdocs> next ? 18:33:57 <suseROCKs> mrdocs, I think your action item needed a little more decriptiveness :-) 18:34:02 <bear454> AlanClark: wiki link ? 18:34:15 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: yup 18:34:21 <AlanClark> bear454: keeping the commmittee on track 18:34:33 <AJaeger> bear454: The leading is informal, there's no leader but you need to keep everything on track. 18:34:45 <mrdocs> reporting to the board in a timely fashion 18:34:46 <AJaeger> bear454: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election 18:35:03 <bear454> that sounds like something I'd be *horrible* at :/ 18:35:12 <AJaeger> mrdocs: The election committee does not report to the board - it works on its own once setup. 18:35:20 * mrdocs nods 18:35:39 <yaloki> and tom is there with his experience for the technical side of things 18:35:43 <yaloki> (voting, counting) 18:35:44 <AJaeger> But you don't want to kick it awake every two weeks ;) 18:36:11 <mrdocs> next ? 18:36:17 <mrdocs> anything else to add 18:36:18 <mrdocs> ? 18:36:19 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, it doesn't report per se, but it should give regular status updates to let us know things are on track 18:36:41 <suseROCKs> and that can be done during Project meeting's Status Updates topic section 18:37:10 <AJaeger> Yes, it should inform the community what the status is. 18:37:55 <suseROCKs> ok I think that's all for this topic... /me yields the floor back to meeting chair 18:38:12 <AlanClark> bear454: by the way, you'd make a great lead. 18:38:37 <mrdocs> #topic permission@ requests 18:38:41 <mrdocs> First 18:38:50 <mrdocs> Request for Bronze sponsorship of openSUSE from Heinlein Support 18:38:57 <bear454> GAH 18:39:05 * bear454 volunteers to lead the election committee 18:39:06 <mrdocs> comments ? 18:39:13 <AlanClark> I'll take the lead on this one 18:39:25 <mrdocs> #info bear454 to lead the election committee 18:39:43 <AlanClark> Board members, you should have seen the permission request on this. 18:39:53 <mrdocs> yup 18:39:58 <mrdocs> i see no issues there 18:40:09 <suseROCKs> si 18:40:22 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: there are ? 18:40:29 <suseROCKs> no 18:40:33 <mrdocs> +1 from me 18:40:37 <suseROCKs> si to AlanClark saying we should have read it :-P 18:40:41 <AlanClark> What I would ask from the board is to approve the proposal to add them as a Bronze Sponsor with AJ and I to work the details 18:40:54 <mrdocs> AlanClark: great 18:40:57 <drago> Bronze Sponsor for what? 18:41:02 <mrdocs> openSUSE 18:41:04 <suseROCKs> well hang on AlanClark .... 18:41:06 <AJaeger> drago: Bronze Sponsor for the project 18:41:20 <drago> what will they donate? 18:41:25 <suseROCKs> I welcome sponsors, just like all others. But one thing we've always raised the question of in the past and never quite figured out how to answer is... "What does sponsor mean?" 18:41:33 <AJaeger> drago: Those are the details to work out ;) 18:41:51 <AJaeger> drago: Hosting is one option - as the two of us discussed at osc11 18:41:52 <suseROCKs> so we should approve before the details? 18:42:01 <drago> I see, thanks 18:42:02 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: in this case its money, hardware or services rendered 18:42:24 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: I suggest you let AlanClark and myself continue investigating. 18:42:41 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, that's what I would prefer as well, 18:42:51 <AJaeger> I suggest that the two of us report back before we make a final "signature" under everything, we'd like to have a "go ahead and work out details" 18:42:53 <suseROCKs> unless you are asking us to approve the investigation itself? 18:43:04 <suseROCKs> yes AJaeger +1 to that 18:43:07 <AJaeger> And your guidance on what to look for 18:43:17 <mrdocs> ok I move we ok it as AlanClark suggested then a final ok after the details are understood 18:43:36 <suseROCKs> +1 (official vote) 18:43:37 <mrdocs> a second ? 18:43:47 <mrdocs> prusnak: ? 18:43:55 <suseROCKs> don't go parliamentarian on us mrdocs :-) 18:44:05 <prusnak> i am okay with investigation 18:44:11 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: trying to move things along :) 18:44:19 <prusnak> i don't think we need to vote on investigating 18:44:53 <suseROCKs> no but its fun to use the keystroke combo once in a while to create the + sign :-) 18:45:16 <suseROCKs> next item? 18:45:32 <mrdocs> #info AlanClark AJaeger to further discuss and report final details for Heinlein Support 18:45:43 <mrdocs> Open Source Press ? 18:46:01 <AlanClark> This is another request that came in from @permission 18:46:03 <mrdocs> I'll say a couple things there 18:46:34 <mrdocs> I have had a good experience with them in discussing a book contract 18:47:14 <mrdocs> very pro open source, good people to work with 18:47:16 <mrdocs> eg 18:47:31 <mrdocs> very responsive and reasonable 18:47:49 <mrdocs> i need to re-read their request, but i did not see anything which bites 18:47:50 <mrdocs> but 18:48:15 <suseROCKs> that's all very good and I have no doubt of their professionalism. However they are requesting an exclusive contract to distribute boxed 12.1 DVDs and that's a problem in my book. 18:48:17 <AJaeger> There is one think we should discuss for sure - exclusivity. 18:48:29 <mrdocs> requesting to ship a box.. no issues there, but not exclusively 18:48:30 <mrdocs> and 18:48:44 <drago> why not exclusively? 18:48:49 <mrdocs> its not clear to me if it is meant in German or English or other languages 18:49:05 <drago> they are talking about a *openSUSE* box, right 18:49:07 <drago> ? 18:49:12 <AJaeger> mrdocs: German for sure, the others I don't know 18:49:19 <suseROCKs> drago, For one thing, we have already given approvals to others in smaller groups to distribute openSUSE in their regions. We can't shut them down 18:49:19 <mrdocs> AJaeger: exactly 18:49:33 <drago> so exclusivity would not harm any derivates 18:49:44 <drago> suseROCKs: whom? 18:50:02 <suseROCKs> we'd have to look back our records for whom, but there's someone in England if I'm not mistaken 18:50:04 <izabelvalverde> exclusivity would be better than nothing here in Brazil 18:50:10 <nmarques> may I ask one simple question ? 18:50:18 <nmarques> just plain curiosity 18:50:27 <yaloki> nmarques: just ask :) 18:50:28 <nmarques> when one asks for exclusivity he has to give something back 18:50:29 <Ilmehtar> suseROCKs: SatManUK, you're right 18:50:40 <nmarques> what are they offering for 'exclusivity' ? 18:50:50 <nmarques> what does openSUSE gets from it ? 18:50:51 <yaloki> nmarques: doing it in the first place, I guess 18:50:56 <suseROCKs> nmarques, at this time they are offering nothing except asking for exclusivity. That's the other issue I have 18:51:09 <nmarques> so the answer seems to be quite easy :) 18:51:16 <nmarques> I lay back now 18:51:18 <AJaeger> I think the exclusivity is only about the "box" - and I would not make it any broader. 18:51:30 <suseROCKs> but we hve had problems with "exclusive" distributors in the past. and I don't see why we want to get locked into something that only one distributor gets to do 18:51:47 <suseROCKs> plus in their email request they ask for advertisement space on the .de version of openSUSE website. 18:51:55 <drago> suseROCKs: nobody will make the investment if it is not exclusive 18:52:03 <suseROCKs> That tells me they don't necessarily have a plan to reach out to other markets. 18:52:04 <mrdocs> From the request: " 18:52:06 <mrdocs> We may use openSUSE trademarks, logos, and artwork for the software 18:52:06 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Besides SUSE in the past, there was never an exclusive distributor 18:52:07 <drago> and how many official opensuse boxes do you want to have? 18:52:07 <mrdocs> box openSUSE 12.1. We may use these exclusively, ie. other companies 18:52:09 <mrdocs> like open-slx GmbH are not allowed to use trademarks and logos for 18:52:10 <mrdocs> version 12.1. 18:52:31 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, open-slx claimed to have a contract (though maybe not necessarily "exclusive") 18:52:32 <nmarques> just another question 18:52:40 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Not exclusive! 18:52:41 <suseROCKs> in which case, exclusivitity takes this to a higher level than in the past 18:52:48 <nmarques> how much is worth the german market for openSUSE in value and volume ? :) 18:52:57 <nmarques> that would point how much 'exclusivity' is worth 18:52:57 <izabelvalverde> when in the past exclusively? 18:53:01 <mrdocs> nmarques: good question 18:53:11 <nmarques> mrdocs: ;) 18:53:39 <AJaeger> I doubt they will sell more than 10000 boxes. 18:53:39 <mrdocs> now so we obviously cannot accept their proposal as is 18:53:47 <nmarques> 10.000 boxes ? :) 18:54:03 <nmarques> that's quite a lot 18:54:03 <izabelvalverde> if so great!!! 18:54:04 <suseROCKs> I don't know. I just see repeat problems of the past if we have to do a contract. 18:54:08 <mrdocs> how do we move forward ? 18:54:14 <nmarques> my advice ? 18:54:17 <drago> depends on how they market it, right? 18:54:18 <AJaeger> nmarques: That's a few - we had 200000 in the past. 18:54:21 <bear454> nmarques: be careful with your thousandths separator... in US 10.000 == 10. 18:54:33 <nmarques> take no action until you have all the data 18:54:39 <AJaeger> bear454: I meant 10k ;) 18:54:50 <nmarques> we're talking maybe on big numbers 18:54:56 <nmarques> with zero return for openSUSE 18:54:58 <nmarques> ;) 18:55:04 <nmarques> and we still have to make free advertisment ? 18:55:09 <nmarques> sounds like a very good deal 18:55:11 <nmarques> for them 18:55:12 <nmarques> :) 18:55:15 <AJaeger> nmarques: It's small numbers with the margins they have. 18:55:23 <yaloki> nmarques: there is an implicit turnaround though 18:55:27 <yaloki> nmarques: more users 18:55:29 <drago> nmarques: you could have applied as well :-) 18:55:36 <prusnak> return for opensuse is that there ARE actually some boxes 18:55:40 <nmarques> yaloki: more users? sounds like a falacy to me 18:55:41 <yaloki> right 18:55:48 <drago> and nobody said that there is zero return for opensuse 18:55:50 <AlanClark> mrdocs, I'll take the action item to reply to their request; explaining that we are not inclined to offer exclusive, etc... 18:55:51 <nmarques> yaloki: who buys boxes ? legacy users or new users ? :) 18:55:54 <yaloki> nmarques: well, if they don't do it, there is no boxed openSUSE at all 18:56:06 <nmarques> yaloki: yeah, I'm not against 18:56:07 <yaloki> nmarques: in countries with bad internet connections, it's still very much an option 18:56:11 <yaloki> (and that includes germany) 18:56:12 <nmarques> yaloki: just take something out of it 18:56:16 <nmarques> yaloki: for example 18:56:20 <drago> yaloki: unfortunately true :-( 18:56:23 <mrdocs> AlanClark: let's work on this together as I have had contact with Markus as well 18:56:29 <nmarques> yaloki: they should do the advertisement for openSUSE, not the other way around 18:56:30 <yaloki> nmarques: I see your point, but as AJaeger said, the margin is very low 18:56:43 <nmarques> yaloki: the problem isn't the margin 18:56:51 <nmarques> yaloki: we can't take money from them can we ? :) 18:56:54 <AJaeger> One info: We should really reply to them today, they are time constrainted to hit the christmas season. 18:57:00 <nmarques> yaloki: so the $US or €'s are not worth 18:57:07 <yaloki> nmarques: probably difficult, indeed 18:57:10 <nmarques> yaloki: but we can take other things, like advertisement and promotion 18:57:16 <yaloki> sure 18:57:17 <AlanClark> mrdocs, +1 in working together. I'll draft an email and send it to the board for review 18:57:17 <izabelvalverde> but more users and someone doing what we can't 18:57:18 <nmarques> yaloki: we shouldn't advertise for them 18:57:24 <nmarques> they should be advisertising for us ;) 18:57:33 <yaloki> nmarques: we advertise anyway 18:57:34 <suseROCKs> ok let's let AlanClark and mrdocs proceed to reach out to them to work out more detailed data and then we can make a more informed choice 18:57:41 <mrdocs> #action AlanClark and mrdocs reply to their request of OSP , but to decline the "exclusive" part 18:57:46 <suseROCKs> but I'm not voting for any exclusivity at this time 18:58:00 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: no it definitely needs more definition 18:58:02 <drago> more interesting is if they will provide install support for example 18:58:04 <nmarques> I only suggest one thing 18:58:05 <yaloki> the exclusivity bit is really the tricky part, everything else, well, why would we be opposed to it 18:58:05 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: I'm against exclusivity - and if we do it, limit it in time and region! 18:58:15 <nmarques> dont hand over exclusivity for periods longer than a year or a cycle 18:58:21 <nmarques> so if something goes really out of hand 18:58:33 <nmarques> we have a natural contractual bail out ;) 18:58:33 <yaloki> AJaeger: *definitely* time-limited and requiring re-negotiation for example 18:58:39 <yaloki> we know what happened in the past 18:58:46 <AJaeger> But you can say: We will inform you before we give somebody else the same rights. 18:58:46 <yaloki> nmarques: agreed 18:58:47 <nmarques> AJaeger: +1 18:58:48 <mrdocs> nmarques yaloki even more, specific targets 18:58:51 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, limited may be thecompormise option 18:59:00 <mrdocs> next 18:59:09 <mrdocs> HaiSoft 18:59:21 * mrdocs does not recall seeing that one 18:59:34 <prusnak> bootable usb key thingie 18:59:54 <drago> heh - seems we're hyping :-) 19:00:00 <suseROCKs> distributing bootable openSUSE USB keys? 19:00:00 <AJaeger> And this is not a box - but openSUSE sold in a shop and thus competition to what OSB offers. 19:00:18 * yaloki thinks "OHaiSoft" would be funnier 19:00:20 <AlanClark> This one just came in from @permission, not all may have seen it yet 19:00:35 <mrdocs> AlanClark: no i just searched, can you forward ? 19:00:36 * suseROCKs goes to look for it 19:00:59 <prusnak> 19:38 CEST 19:01:07 <prusnak> subj: openSUSE logo for bootable USB Key 19:01:09 <mrdocs> today ? 19:01:17 <prusnak> yes 19:01:17 <AJaeger> mrdocs: today, 90 minutes ago 19:01:20 <mrdocs> got it 19:01:21 <AlanClark> yes it just came in today. 19:01:21 <yaloki> AJaeger: so it goes back to OSB again, and limiting what that exclusivity means, but that's something that needs to be taken care of anyway, to avoid making it impossible for communities to distribute DVDs and such 19:01:22 <suseROCKs> "I am contacting you because I would like to print the openSUSE logo on a 19:01:22 <suseROCKs> USB Key. This key will be sold with the latest Live version of openSUSE at 19:01:22 <suseROCKs> a reasonable price, across Europe. 19:01:22 <suseROCKs> " 19:01:26 <mrdocs> buried :S 19:02:22 <suseROCKs> that one I can easily _+1 on. Doesn't request any burdens upon us and accepts his own role and burdens for the distribution of the keys 19:02:46 <AJaeger> nmarques: I would have expected you to speak up and ask to get something back for the project ;) 19:03:07 <AlanClark> I'm +1 on this one 19:03:13 <prusnak> +1 here as well 19:03:23 <AJaeger> Haisoft wants to make money with it - anything we won't to have go back t othe project? 19:03:29 <suseROCKs> and we do get these types of requests from time to time, which is why agreeing to an exclusivity contract is not exactly a good thing 19:03:58 <cboltz> AJaeger: maybe some usb keys for free? ;-) 19:04:11 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, well here's what we came up with a few months ago. Since we haven't really gotten a foundation in place, we decided that any requests that have money-making potential will be granted a one-year limited permissions 19:04:12 <AJaeger> I have an additional question on these topics: Currently we have links to open-SLX for the openSUSE 11.4 box. Would we link to Haisoft? 19:04:20 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Ah, ok. 19:04:24 <yaloki> suseROCKs: otoh it could be a bit weird to have *two* resellers propose openSUSE 12.1 boxes on the shelf :) 19:04:25 <suseROCKs> that way we can revisit the issue in the future in accordance with the business plans of openSUSE Project 19:04:47 <suseROCKs> yaloki, I don't think its that weird 19:04:55 <AJaeger> yaloki: Yeah, one DVD, one USB key. 19:05:08 <yaloki> AJaeger: that's alright I think, but having 2 boxed sets.. heh 19:05:14 <yaloki> well yeah, maybe it isn't weird 19:05:19 <izabelvalverde> USB cheaper to ship! 19:05:20 <prusnak> the more the merrier :) 19:05:31 <mrdocs> well haisoft is only proposing live images, not installers 19:05:33 <yaloki> true, true :) 19:05:36 <mrdocs> so 19:05:40 <suseROCKs> yaloki, a store owner/store product buyer isn't likely to buy the same product to stock their shelves from two different vendors 19:05:58 <suseROCKs> +1 Prusnak 19:05:59 <mrdocs> +1 for me as well, if limited to one year as we have done with prior requests 19:06:14 <mrdocs> ok who replies ? 19:06:24 <suseROCKs> I can do it 19:06:33 <prusnak> jfyi there is one no vote from someone from the legal dept 19:06:35 <AJaeger> I suggest another topic: How do we promote these boxes/products from our pages? How prominently do we want this - and this includes also derivates like the open-SLX 19:06:36 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - I'll do it 19:06:38 <prusnak> how do we deal with this? 19:06:51 <prusnak> are we overriding this? 19:06:51 <suseROCKs> ok AlanClark 19:06:52 <AlanClark> suseROCKS - I need to include novell legal on 19:07:10 <yaloki> prusnak: there are only two options: promote all or promote neither 19:07:27 <suseROCKs> prusnak, let AlanClark slap around the legal department until they fear him and give him anything he wants under the sun :-) 19:07:36 <nmarques> AJaeger: sry I missed something... get back what ? 19:07:46 <AJaeger> AlanClark: It's Scott Corfield - isn't he marketing? 19:07:46 <mrdocs> #action AlanClark to contact legal and follow-up with HaiSoft, board votes OK with permission 19:07:49 <nmarques> AJaeger: was answering mails :/ 19:08:02 <AlanClark> Scott is marketing not legal 19:08:04 <AJaeger> nmarques: No problem - read the above discussion on haisoft. 19:08:06 <nmarques> AJaeger: about the USB sticks ? 19:08:13 <nmarques> AJaeger: yeah, I would ask something 19:08:24 <nmarques> AJaeger: a % of sticks for our own marketing and events 19:08:27 <mrdocs> AJaeger: yes good point about our promotion activites 19:08:35 <nmarques> AJaeger: so we can distribute a few to our users/enthusiasts 19:09:00 <mrdocs> AlanClark: ^^ can you add this to your reply ? 19:09:04 <nmarques> AJaeger: I can contact a few companies in Shen Zen or whatever it's called to check for the normal prices of USB sticks (manufacturing costs) 19:09:29 <nmarques> AJaeger: I do have a few contacts, but I would say that the production cost of a 2/4GB stick is bellow 1€ 19:09:43 <nmarques> AJaeger: so asking them a few hundreds would be sane enough :) 19:09:50 <AlanClark> mrdocs: I'll add the request to the email 19:09:58 <mrdocs> nmarques: plus in some countries there is a media tax + duties 19:10:06 <mrdocs> AlanClark: thanks :) 19:10:09 <nmarques> mrdocs: export laws 19:10:13 <mrdocs> anything else on this ? 19:10:25 <suseROCKs> I think we can move on 19:10:35 <nmarques> mrdocs: either way production costs are low 19:10:40 <mrdocs> #topic where can we improve ? 19:10:48 <mrdocs> #info http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:What_to_improve_osc11_session 19:10:58 <nmarques> mrdocs: asking like 500 sticks for our own marketing peeps wouldn't sound unresonable to me 19:11:16 <nmarques> mrdocs: plus the promotion we can give and visibility 19:11:17 <mrdocs> nmarques: i agree if they are making 10k 19:11:33 <nmarques> mrdocs: that's my suggestion :) 19:11:40 <nmarques> mrdocs: but it's really up to you guys :) 19:11:50 <nmarques> mrdocs: and yeah, I'm the mercenary kind :) 19:11:58 <mrdocs> nmarques: let's see what AlanClark comes up with 19:12:03 <prusnak> nmarques: good suggestion 19:12:28 <nmarques> prusnak: yeah, give the tools to our most efforted ambassadors 19:12:36 <mrdocs> nmarques: exactly 19:12:38 <nmarques> prusnak: they will make good usage of them :) 19:12:41 <suseROCKs> I need to step away for a couple minutes 19:12:49 <mrdocs> ok me too 19:13:00 <suseROCKs> does that mean we have intermission? :-) 19:13:22 <mrdocs> #topci 5 min intermission 19:13:25 <mrdocs> gr 19:13:31 <suseROCKs> a first! W00T! 19:13:33 <mrdocs> #topic 5 min intermission 19:13:42 <yaloki> lol 19:13:54 <mrdocs> back @21:18 CET 19:14:02 <prusnak> pee pause break 19:14:14 <andy__> that was intense! 19:15:19 * yaloki watches the queue to the bathrooms 19:15:50 <drago> hmmrmrmm 19:15:52 <yaloki> don't forget washing your hands! 19:15:55 <yaloki> :) 19:17:52 * suseROCKs is back with dripping hands 19:18:12 * mrdocs hopes people also return with favortie $beverage 19:18:24 <mrdocs> we're back 19:18:29 * yaloki DCCs a round 19:18:33 <mrdocs> #topic where can we improve ? 19:18:39 <mrdocs> #info http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:What_to_improve_osc11_session 19:18:47 <mrdocs> Who wants to start ? 19:18:58 <suseROCKs> ok so I was at that BoF led by robjo 19:19:12 <AlanClark> I suggest we table this till next meeting robjo isn't able to attend today 19:19:18 <mrdocs> yeah 19:19:27 <suseROCKs> and though he's not here, I'd like to commend RobJo for fulfilling our request to do the BoF 19:19:27 <AlanClark> unless suseROCKS wants to report 19:19:30 <mrdocs> but it is s meaty subject 19:19:45 <suseROCKs> I'd like to let robjo handle it. He deserves it 19:20:01 <mrdocs> yeah that wiki page is well done 19:20:09 <yaloki> +1 19:20:14 <suseROCKs> +1 19:20:29 <AJaeger> robjo is not here today 19:20:48 <AJaeger> He suggested before the meeting to postpone until next meeting 19:21:04 <mrdocs> #action postpone discussion until robjo can attend 19:21:23 <mrdocs> #topic Q&A 19:21:55 <mrdocs> Jedibeeftrix asks: Any update on Jos's request for assistance with Bretzn and how this will affect opensuse 12.1? 19:22:12 <mrdocs> gah 19:22:13 <suseROCKs> HAH nice jos! 19:22:28 <prusnak> i can answer 19:22:32 <mrdocs> good 19:22:56 <prusnak> next week we have a hackweek in SUSE offices and AFAIK Frank is coming to NUE office to work on integrating Bretzn into 12.1 19:22:57 <suseROCKs> make an action item for Jos to send prusnak a bag of waffles for stepping in for him :-) 19:23:13 * mrdocs grins 19:23:19 <drago> prusnak is right, Frank will be here 19:23:30 <suseROCKs> ahh that leads to another question 19:23:33 <mrdocs> prusnak: good news.. anything else we need to know or do ? 19:23:37 <prusnak> otherwise i don't know about anyone from the community who'd stepped up for this 19:23:46 <drago> still that does not mean that he/we can do it alone 19:24:11 <mrdocs> drago: what help is needed ? 19:24:16 <prusnak> exactly, so if there are any volunteers, you know whom to contact 19:24:24 <drago> mrdocs: coding currently I guess 19:24:31 <suseROCKs> y'know this is actually an old question that was addressed in previous meeting at some point, just never removed from the wiki. 19:24:34 <yaloki> .oO(usually happens that way, with stuff developed behind the scenes...) 19:24:49 <suseROCKs> And we don't really have a way of directly answering that question except for expecting people to read our logs 19:25:13 <suseROCKs> let's add this answer to the wiki page after the question 19:25:33 <drago> yaloki: you mean bretzn? 19:25:35 <mrdocs> well in this case it seems Jos needs to bang the drum for community participation 19:25:56 <suseROCKs> well that kind of leads to my next question, mrdocs, which I'm going to address to drago 19:25:59 <yaloki> drago: amongst a few other cases, yes :) 19:26:45 <suseROCKs> drago, The hackweek itself isn't widely publicized. I planned to write an article but some are telling me this is only for internal SUSE folks and not a broad hackweek for everyone. Can you explain the participatory goals of hackweek? 19:26:51 <drago> yaloki: there has been a very public sprint at the beginning of the year, you remember? 19:27:14 <yaloki> drago: nope, so that might be just me 19:27:28 <suseROCKs> actually I thought it was end of last y ear? 19:27:34 <drago> yaloki: it could always be opener of course 19:27:40 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Hackweek is indeed a SUSE internal event - and this year we're a bit late with organizing it. 19:27:53 <drago> hackweek: Well, yes, the communication sucks 19:28:13 <drago> but AFAIK its of course not "only for SUSE folks" 19:28:13 <yaloki> drago: what I find puzzling is that, typically, the *concept* isn't discussed a lot :\ 19:28:22 <suseROCKs> well its never too late to communicate, but as one person said to me earlier today, no real need to publicize because externally people can hack anytime they want. I'm not sure I agree with that perception 19:28:23 <AJaeger> It's internal but some participants invite others to work with them. 19:28:27 <yaloki> well, effectively, it kind of is 19:28:27 <drago> who tells that? 19:28:47 <yaloki> AJaeger: true 19:29:14 <suseROCKs> so should we or should we not publicize it? 19:29:22 <drago> Why should it be internal? I mean, every Geeko can say "I do a hackweek" and hack with us 19:29:34 <drago> of course, please publicize 19:29:35 <suseROCKs> drago, That's my feeling as well. 19:29:47 <yaloki> drago: but why would that be hackweek, everyone else is doing it during their spare time, just as usual 19:29:51 <AJaeger> drago: Indeed - but you don't want to have to mentor everybody on how to e.g. work the build service. 19:29:57 <izabelvalverde> we have many things to publicize not sure if SUSE should be the main need right now 19:30:27 <suseROCKs> but we've publicizzed hackweeks in the past 19:30:33 <prusnak> hackweek since its 3rd edition is not what it used to be (1st and 2nd one) 19:30:35 <drago> guys, if somebody does NOT want to mentor - granted. He/she can simply say that. 19:30:51 <mrdocs> izabelvalverde: good point and moreover, many of the devs blog about their stuff, during and after it 19:31:01 <mrdocs> prusnak: what's different ? 19:31:02 <drago> But I do not see a reason why we shouldnt beat the drum just because of that 19:31:35 <suseROCKs> mrdocs, but simultaneously, having an actual hackweek may inspire someone who does have skills do do their own hacking but has been procrastinating up to now. That's where publicizing does a good thing 19:31:37 <prusnak> mrdocs: well, if it were not for this meeting you would not learn about it 19:31:39 <drago> we need good marketing and hackweek is a good thing 19:31:44 <drago> so lets talk about that 19:31:50 <prusnak> while back then nat was writing about it literally everywhere 19:31:54 <suseROCKs> plus since hackweek is about anything under the FOSS sun, it enhances our image that openSUSE is more than just a distro. Its a project that fosters all of FOSS 19:32:10 <prusnak> but we faild to find a replacement for him once he started to work on studio 19:32:10 <AJaeger> I think we should write something - with two intends: One the one hand to invite to hack together, on the other to tell that many people are hacking on projects out of their comfort space. So, they might hang around in other channels with other problems than usual. 19:32:37 <yaloki> "invite to hack together" … 19:32:50 <suseROCKs> or invite to just hack, period? 19:33:02 <yaloki> well 19:33:10 <yaloki> there is definitely a need for information about it 19:33:13 <izabelvalverde> "invite to hack together" 19:33:17 <prusnak> but fwiw i think having an internal hackweek is fine 19:33:26 <yaloki> because, inevitably, some people will hackweek on things other people have already been doing in the community 19:33:28 <prusnak> we just have to decide if it is a public event or now 19:33:31 <yaloki> and which they don't know about 19:33:35 <yaloki> so hackweek can do harm as well 19:33:43 <prusnak> because if it is we should sponsor some people to come to the offices 19:33:49 <AJaeger> prusnak: It will be a public event - because people speak about it like we do here ;) 19:33:54 <drago> yaloki: please... 19:34:08 <suseROCKs> prusnak, I don't think we have to get to the point of sponsoring travel, especially since it starts this Monday 19:34:20 <drago> prusnak: of course it is public 19:34:29 <yaloki> drago: "please" what? just saying, needs to be some interaction 19:34:50 <prusnak> drago: really? i learned about it 2 days ago 19:34:53 <yaloki> drago: the potential is there, so, information is needed 19:34:55 <drago> yaloki: interaction is *always* needed, right? 19:34:58 <manugupt1> yaloki: How does that harm the project off topic though 19:35:26 <drago> doing FOSS can never harm, right? 19:35:27 <yaloki> manugupt1: because other people have been doing something during their spare time and then, suddenly, bang, someone else is doing the same without re-using what has been done 19:35:34 <drago> evne if efforts are doubled 19:35:40 <yaloki> oh hell no 19:35:42 <drago> thats one of the mechanisms of FOSS 19:35:51 <yaloki> not if you want to be a community 19:36:05 <drago> I am not saying we should strive for 19:36:06 <drago> surely 19:36:07 <manugupt1> yaloki: Unless entangled in ego issues.. it should not harm imo yes duplication sucks 19:36:20 <manugupt1> But sometime stuff happens 19:36:28 <yaloki> it's a little more complex than that though 19:36:36 <drago> yaloki: where do you see a problem? 19:36:41 <suseROCKs> yaloki, does have a point, and he is speaking from personal experience on this matter as he got "banged" 19:36:41 <drago> yaloki: speak out bluntly 19:37:03 <yaloki> suseROCKs: but it's not even that what I have in mind 19:37:10 <yaloki> well 19:37:12 <yaloki> pretty simple 19:37:22 <yaloki> hackweek, high visiblity, lots of blogging 19:37:30 <yaloki> people with connections, more visiblity and presence in the project 19:37:35 <suseROCKs> but the thing is here, is what yaloki seems to be saying (from my interpretation) is that there needs to be a more orderly fashion of some sort and I don't know if that can be done in such a short time period before Monday 19:37:38 <yaloki> they do something other people have been doing already 19:37:56 <yaloki> those other people not necessarily having the presence and visibility in the project 19:38:06 <yaloki> just imagine how you'd feel 19:38:14 <yaloki> so, I'm just saying, that _could_ happen 19:38:16 <suseROCKs> yaloki, yup I totally can relate to that feeling 19:38:21 <suseROCKs> but how do you avoid that? 19:38:26 <yaloki> and hence we _need_ to spread some information about hackweek to the community 19:38:38 * drago experienced that recently with his Owncloud sync client 19:38:56 <yaloki> so that, even if those doing hackweek don't care, those who could get their stuff overwritten and stampeded have a chance of keeping an eye and say "hey! hey! wait!" 19:38:57 <suseROCKs> its a depressing feeling, for sure 19:39:11 <yaloki> that's all I'm saying 19:39:20 <mrdocs> yaloki: good points 19:39:22 <mrdocs> so 19:39:27 <yaloki> I'm obviously having a few specific cases in mind, but that's not the issue, and nothing I'd discuss here anyway ^^ 19:39:27 <suseROCKs> yaloki, I get it now answer is... how do we address it? 19:39:34 <mrdocs> where do we go from here ? 19:39:39 <drago> we could avoid that using openFATE for example more consequentely 19:39:46 <yaloki> drago: good point 19:40:01 <yaloki> and maybe just send a line or two about that potential situation to those who will participate in hackweek 19:40:02 <manugupt1> But would it be one entry or a lot of different open fate entries 19:40:03 <drago> and if people do not speak about there projects, they're pimped. True 19:40:29 <mrdocs> drago: seems to me that needs to be addressed inside - that is getting devs to pay attention to openfate 19:40:38 <andy__> surely publicity will make people want to share their ideas for hackweek 19:40:42 <suseROCKs> "pimped" Now that's a cool word coming out of Drago! :-) 19:40:46 <yaloki> duplication and forking is not an issue, it's a lot more about the psychological impact and not having the same "weapons" in terms of time, contact to key people on the project, and visibility 19:40:58 <drago> suseROCKs: from the Bugzilla sources ! 19:41:07 <drago> suseROCKs: really. 19:41:14 <mrdocs> hehe 19:41:19 <prusnak> drago: maybe everyone who writes a blogpost about his hackweek project can get one Old Toad :) 19:41:26 <yaloki> eheh 19:41:31 <prusnak> we have to motivate SUSE folks I guess 19:41:49 <suseROCKs> So do we have a solution here? 19:41:50 <mrdocs> and to get more people looking at openfate for ideas 19:41:56 <yaloki> mrdocs: +1 19:42:16 * drago likes to avoid using alcohol as motivation ;-) 19:42:17 <prusnak> because i am sure that out of 200 people having hackweek next week we won't hear a word from 168 of them 19:42:39 <drago> prusnak: true unfortunately 19:42:44 <suseROCKs> agreed 19:42:46 <prusnak> s/Old Toad/big lollypop/ 19:42:49 <mrdocs> prusnak: too bad.. then it begs the question about changing that 19:43:16 <suseROCKs> ok guys... time out for a second so I can say something... 19:43:19 <drago> mrdocs: the only solution is to make a sooo coool openSUSE project so that everybody cares about 19:43:21 <mrdocs> what can the community do to get this in the open and more interactive with the outside wolrd ? 19:43:38 <suseROCKs> I see 2 things... 1) We are trying to hash out the ideal solution here and 2) We need to publicize this very soon 19:43:39 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: go 19:44:01 <suseROCKs> its late at night for many of you, and the complexiity of this discussion tells me that I'm not going to be the ideal person to write up the first draft of the article 19:44:13 <mrdocs> 1. we cannot fix now 2. needs action 19:44:16 <drago> prusnak: try to find out who is in charge of this HW 19:44:25 <AJaeger> drago: Your boss;) 19:44:28 <drago> prusnak: and tell him about the issue 19:44:30 <suseROCKs> I'll be glad to work on the second draft and polish it up for the morning. But wwho can volunteer to write 1st draft tonight? 19:44:33 <drago> AJaeger: I doubt 19:44:53 <AJaeger> drago: That's what I heard yesterday on the hallways - and it seemed a recent appointment 19:45:13 <prusnak> that's the problem, i guess, no one knows who's in charge 19:45:22 <drago> ok, lost... 19:45:33 <prusnak> before it was clear that it is nat or jw 19:46:12 <suseROCKs> I fear you guys might have rushed into this hackweek but I think we're past the point of resolving that and we should just bite it and figure out the best way to go from here for an awesome start on Monday 19:46:50 <AJaeger> prusnak: jw is involved - ask him and roland. 19:47:00 <izabelvalverde> well I hope your hackweek will better that the one last week! 19:47:00 <drago> prusnak: yes, please contact jw 19:47:01 <AJaeger> Can we move on to my question? 19:47:09 <AJaeger> I suggested a few minutes ago to discuss: How do we promote these boxes/products from our pages? How prominently do we want this - and this includes also derivates like the open-SLX 19:47:09 <drago> prusnak: he will understand the issue 19:47:26 <mrdocs> AJaeger: yup you are next :) 19:47:28 <mrdocs> so 19:47:33 <AJaeger> mrdocs: Thanks 19:47:33 <mrdocs> action item ? 19:47:41 <mrdocs> AJaeger: i did not forget :) 19:47:44 <suseROCKs> who wants to write up the first draft ASAP? 19:47:54 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: i can if given some details 19:48:19 <mrdocs> #action mrdocs to try and start a first draft tonight 19:48:27 <suseROCKs> well I'm kinda hoping to shorten the gap here by having the person with the most details do the brain dump into the first draft 19:48:39 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: yes.. i see 19:48:50 <suseROCKs> mrdocs, it needs to be published like tomorrow morning to make this owrthwhile 19:48:55 <suseROCKs> *worthwhile 19:48:58 <mrdocs> by Friday 19:49:10 <suseROCKs> Friday's always a bad day for publication. low readership 19:49:19 * mrdocs nods 19:49:21 <mrdocs> but 19:49:25 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: jw, prusnak, myself can review it tomorrow and publish in the afternoon 19:49:37 <mrdocs> good 19:49:41 <suseROCKs> works for me! :-) 19:49:43 <mrdocs> i need to step away 19:49:51 <mrdocs> bbi 2 19:50:11 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: so please add the action item, then its AJ's turn 19:50:13 <suseROCKs> hmm I think we're actually kind of done with the meeting now, aren't we? 19:50:21 <suseROCKs> oh yeah AJ .... 19:50:30 <andy__> Likely done 19:50:50 <suseROCKs> #action mrdocs to write first draft of hackweek announcement, aj, prusnak and jw will review and publish it by end of day Thursday 19:50:57 <suseROCKs> ok AJaeger you have the floor 19:50:59 <AJaeger> I suggested a few minutes ago to discuss: How do we promote these boxes/products from our pages? How prominently do we want this - and this includes also derivates like the open-SLX 19:51:04 <AJaeger> http://software.opensuse.org/114/en right now contains a link "Buy openSUSE" which links to http://en.opensuse.org/Buy_openSUSE. 19:51:19 <AJaeger> So, how do we want to do this? What are the guidelines to add external links here? 19:51:42 <AJaeger> opensourcepress asked to be included - and open-SLX as derivative are interested as well. 19:51:54 <AJaeger> The Haisoft USB stick is another think to add somehow. 19:51:56 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, my initial thought is to just have a page with the logos of various distributors and people can click to the one they like. But I wonder if distibutors are going to appreciate being all on the same page 19:52:12 <drago> hehe - hard thing 19:52:15 <suseROCKs> but yes we should definitely promote those who distribute us 19:52:34 <nmarques> guys sry for trolling but in the end if possible I have a request to the board 19:52:38 <drago> other projects do not do that btw 19:52:44 <nmarques> just let me know if there's time 19:52:53 <suseROCKs> drago, Just means we're better than the rest :-) 19:52:56 <AJaeger> drago: Other projects don't have a box ;) 19:52:58 <yaloki> nmarques: mail is prolly better, as not every board member is here right now 19:53:03 <suseROCKs> after all, other projects don't even have their own beer! 19:53:04 <drago> KDE does not promote openSUSE :-) 19:53:22 <drago> I know that does not really match 19:53:30 <drago> but still, we don't _have_ to do it 19:53:56 <AJaeger> drago: Right, we don't have to. But we did in the past. 19:53:57 <suseROCKs> drago, but here's the thing. We are not a large community like others. So engaging in a partnership of marketing helps to further our reach where other projects have larger teams to do the work 19:54:20 <AJaeger> But exactly since we don't have to, we should be clear on what we want to promote and what *not* 19:54:28 <drago> AJaeger: right 19:54:34 <mrdocs> AJaeger: exactly 19:54:49 <mrdocs> and that has never been clearly discussed, let alone defined 19:55:00 <suseROCKs> AJaeger, I think any product that is portraying openSUSE under the goodwill clause should simply get a listing on a page. One page listing all of these 19:55:08 <drago> the easiest and most equal solution is to not do it at all 19:55:20 <AlanClark> I think it should be limited to those which " redistribute without modifications" according to the trademark guidelines 19:55:24 <drago> suseROCKs: good compromise 19:55:36 <mrdocs> AlanClark: +1 19:55:53 <AJaeger> AlanClark: So, no derivatives like open-SLX? 19:55:54 <mrdocs> as we then know what is in the tin 19:56:07 <drago> the problem is that we basically promote everything 19:56:16 <drago> ie. openSUSE Edu, Medical etc. 19:56:30 <suseROCKs> we're not really promoting Balsam 19:56:40 <drago> so why do we discuss the "real" openSUSE clones? 19:56:41 <AJaeger> openSUSE Edu and Medical are part of openSUSE - aren't they? 19:56:45 <drago> its really difficult 19:56:58 <AlanClark> AJaeger; still pondering that one. I like the idea of basing the decisionon the trademark guidelines, so that we have a known basis of judgement 19:57:04 <suseROCKs> drago, those are community-grown projects. I'd be likely to promote them but in a different way, not in a products page 19:57:11 <mrdocs> drago: let's be clear, community driven is different 19:57:22 <mrdocs> we 19:57:50 <drago> ok, so lets promote Balsam - they consider themselves community as well I am sure 19:57:52 <mrdocs> let's limit this to commercially driven derivatives 19:57:56 <AJaeger> drago: Yes, it's not easy - and I don't expect an answer tonight. We can table that for the next meeting and thus give everybody of us the chance to come up with a great idea - or realize it's too complex. 19:58:16 <drago> AJaeger: its complex, but we need a solution 19:58:25 <yaloki> .oO(and there's a difference between considering yourself and actually being...) 19:58:28 <drago> and I agree on postponing 19:58:28 <AlanClark> +1 AJaeger. let's put this on the agenda for next time 19:58:34 <suseROCKs> I'll go with AJaeger's suggestion and table it for now.... 19:58:37 <drago> yaloki: sure, but who decides? 19:58:44 <mrdocs> AJaeger: no its not impossible, just needs some thought and reasonably good guidlines 19:58:44 <yaloki> drago: I know, I know 19:58:50 <drago> yaloki: you see my point? 19:58:51 <yaloki> it is complicated, indeed 19:58:57 <yaloki> drago: yes, absolutely 19:59:16 * drago actually saw that coming.... 19:59:17 <yaloki> drago: not the first time we discuss/brainstorm about it, really not easy 19:59:31 <drago> yaloki: right 19:59:47 <suseROCKs> I suggest we make a list of all the possible products (community derivatives, etc.) and then we can have a broader overview of where the examples lie 20:00:12 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: yes, we also need to think about stuff from susetudio 20:00:29 <mrdocs> so 20:00:30 <AlanClark> mrdocs; ugh 20:00:32 <drago> suseROCKs: well, all possible products? You thought of openSUSE beer two years ago? 20:00:47 <mrdocs> AlanClark: yes :S 20:00:49 <drago> suseROCKs: No chance to foresee all products 20:00:55 <suseROCKs> drago, no that's not what I mean. 20:01:14 <drago> suseROCKs: ah, sorry 20:01:23 <suseROCKs> drago, what I mean is we're all throwing in little examples here and htere, but if we can itemize the existing examples, we can then easily divide them into categories and then be able to make a more prudent determination 20:01:38 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: exactly 20:01:49 <suseROCKs> its a helluva lot easier to look at a list of examples than a "oh by the way this one too" :-) 20:01:58 <drago> suseROCKs: good, but than we discuss all over again and again 20:02:10 <mrdocs> so where do we go from here ? 20:02:12 <AlanClark> actually guys, there is one easy answer, that many won't like, but it is an answer. Only post those that sponsor the project. 20:02:16 <drago> but we probably can not avoid that anyway 20:02:37 <mrdocs> AlanClark: yes, definitely a possibilty 20:02:40 <suseROCKs> AlanClark, and that opens up the age old question that's been brought up before... "What is our definition of Sponsor"? :-) 20:02:42 <drago> AlanClark: thats good 20:03:02 * drago drops off now 20:03:04 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: We do have "official" sponsors 20:03:06 <drago> good night everybody 20:03:09 <AJaeger> drago: Good night! 20:03:15 <mrdocs> drago: thanks for joining :) 20:03:16 <andy__> drago: night 20:03:19 <izabelvalverde> drago night ;-) 20:04:07 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: sponsors = money, services in kind, goods in kind 20:04:28 <mrdocs> which can include beer, guns and lawyers :) 20:04:28 <suseROCKs> mrdocs, AJaeger but this question has been raised a number of times in board meetings over the past year and no one has ever come up with an answer 20:05:03 <mrdocs> suseROCKs: well apart from my list above what would you add to that ? 20:05:07 <AJaeger> suseROCKs: Sorry, I don't remember these - might have skipped all of those ;-( 20:05:37 <AlanClark> I don't remember that being an issue either 20:05:51 <warlordfff> hey 20:05:56 <warlordfff> good afternoon 20:06:02 <suseROCKs> it was raised during our discussions with open-slx and they kept banding around that they were the major sponsor of openSUSE 20:06:11 <suseROCKs> and I kept asking... what's their definition and our definition of sponsorship 20:06:12 <yaloki> HAHAHAHAHHahhahHAHAHAHHA 20:06:15 <yaloki> oops, sorry :) 20:06:23 <suseROCKs> what's our expectations vs. the sponsor's expectations, etc. 20:06:30 <suseROCKs> yaloki, exactly! :-) 20:06:36 <AlanClark> ah stepped into that one 20:07:27 <warlordfff> I want to join the election comitie 20:07:33 <yaloki> kudos to warlordfff ! 20:07:37 <warlordfff> do I still have time? 20:07:41 <AJaeger> warlordfff: Great! 20:07:53 <warlordfff> I forgot to write that down yesterday 20:08:32 <mrdocs> gah sorry irc died on my 20:08:53 <yaloki> but as AJaeger said, we should still have a public call 20:09:01 <yaloki> to give everybody a chance to be part of that committee 20:09:06 <yaloki> and not just those who were on IRC today 20:09:15 <warlordfff> ok 20:09:18 <mrdocs> can someone pastebin the recent chat ? 20:09:25 <suseROCKs> and we will send out that email announcement shortly 20:09:26 <warlordfff> one question about something else 20:09:34 <AlanClark> I think we've spent enough time on the this topic today, I'd recommend that we put it on the agenda for next meeting, so that we can think through some proposals 20:09:35 <nmarques> mrdocs: sign me up for the guns... if anyone is handing over G36C's, I could use one :) 20:09:39 <warlordfff> if I have the time? 20:09:40 <nmarques> mrdocs: and save 4000€'s :) 20:09:58 <AJaeger> AlanClark: +1 20:10:01 <mrdocs> nmarques: i was thinking of the warren zevon song :) 20:10:20 <nmarques> guys 20:10:25 <nmarques> mind if I say something :) 20:10:37 <mrdocs> nmarques: sure 20:10:38 <nmarques> you guys need a plan for some sort of 'franchising' the brand 20:10:46 <nmarques> something very well thought of 20:10:56 <nmarques> that would solve the problems with sponsorships and friends 20:11:00 <nmarques> ;) 20:11:11 <nmarques> it shouldn't be a 'per case' thingie 20:11:17 <mrdocs> nmarques: i know exactly of what you are speaking 20:11:29 <AJaeger> nmarques: There are guidelines on what bronce, silver and gold sponsorship means. 20:11:30 <mrdocs> nmarques: is that something you could take on ? 20:11:59 <nmarques> mrdocs: that is something I can help with ;) (help i nthe role of follower, not as in the role of leader) 20:12:19 <nmarques> mrdocs: I have theoretical expertise to do it, but no real life experience on doing it 20:12:24 <nmarques> mrdocs: but it's a start :) 20:12:48 <AJaeger> http://en.opensuse.org/images/2/2f/Sponsoring-concept-opensuse.pdf should be the sponsor brochure 20:13:00 <mrdocs> AJaeger: thanks 20:13:48 <AJaeger> mmh, that one misses bronze sponsorship 20:14:18 <yaloki> can we end the meeting? 20:14:24 <mrdocs> AJaeger: that needs to be pretty and attractive 20:14:26 <mrdocs> yes 20:15:04 <mrdocs> #action postpone discussion for sponsor levels for next meeting 20:15:08 <suseROCKs> +1 to meeting end 20:15:15 <mrdocs> anyone else have anything ? 20:15:24 <mrdocs> 1,2,3... 20:15:27 * yaloki haz stomach bug, wanna share 20:15:29 <yaloki> ;) 20:15:29 <suseROCKs> 3,2, 1 20:15:31 <mrdocs> #endmeeting