18:01:49 #startmeeting 18:01:50 Meeting started Wed Apr 6 18:01:49 2011 UTC. The chair is henne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:02:11 #meetingtopic openSUSE Project Meeting - http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Project_meeting 18:02:27 Welcome to the openSUSE Project Meeting! 18:02:32 This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. 18:02:37 The topics for this meeting are: 18:02:44 1. Old Action Items (30 minutes) 18:02:51 2. Status Reports (15 minutes) 18:02:56 3. openSUSE conference(10 minutes) 18:03:01 4. permission@ requests (10 minutes) 18:03:12 5. Organization of this meeting (10 minutes) 18:03:18 6. Where do we need to improve? (15 minutes) 18:03:22 7. Questions & Answers (30 minutes) 18:03:33 a full agenda 18:03:43 so let's roll 18:03:46 first topic 18:03:53 #topic Old Action Items 18:04:01 Project action items you can find in bugzilla with this link. http://bit.ly/opensuse_action_items 18:04:04 Aren't we supposed to take a roll call nowadays? 18:04:20 lo 18:04:25 lo 18:04:34 suseROCKs: correct 18:04:36 suseROCKs: its not on the agenda... 18:04:48 we didnt do it the last couple of times 18:04:55 I thought we did 18:04:57 * mrdocs2 is juggling a sick kid 18:05:01 that's why I brought it up 18:05:11 mrdocs2: dont drop it 18:05:17 mrdocs2, that may be why the kid is sick. Wait 30 minutes after eating before juggling 18:05:25 okay roll call. whos here? 18:05:30 Me! 18:05:30 pong 18:05:32 * henne is 18:05:41 here 18:05:57 * mrdocs2 waves 18:06:04 prusnak: ? 18:06:19 alan? 18:06:22 AlanClark sent his regrets owing to travel 18:06:29 i see 18:06:48 do we have a quorum ? 18:06:54 si 18:07:00 bon :) 18:07:06 do we need a quorum? :) 18:07:14 bonbon? 18:07:19 usually a good idea 18:07:25 so can we get on with the topic? :) 18:07:28 dragotin: bon = good in .fr :) 18:07:32 yes please 18:07:39 * prusnak waves 18:07:45 Project action items you can find in bugzilla with this link. http://bit.ly/opensuse_action_items 18:07:46 but i thought we start at 1900 UTC 18:07:48 cool 18:07:51 There are only 2 18:08:14 prusnak, as mentioned in last meeting (actually just afte rlast meeting) 19:00 changed to 18:00 due to DST 18:08:20 Bug #676693 and Bug #676694 about the GNOME3 promo DVD's 18:08:25 openSUSE bug 676693 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce GNOME 3 promo DVD/CD iso" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676693 18:08:26 openSUSE bug 676694 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce GNOME 3 promo DVD/CD sleeve" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676694 18:08:33 suseROCKs: please fix the wiki then 18:08:42 * vuntz updates the sleeve bug 18:08:42 vuntz: any status updates on those? 18:08:49 we have sleeves 18:08:56 iso is being worked on 18:09:09 suseROCKs: or i'll do it :) 18:09:10 hard to have it while GNOME 3.0 is not out yet ;-) 18:09:12 vuntz, any idea of the ETA? I'm working on annaouncement 18:09:12 vuntz: are the sleeves printable? 18:09:30 henne: I sent them to aj and he was happy 18:09:53 vuntz: okay. because this was a problem for the 11.4 promo dvd 18:09:59 wonderful 18:10:05 I like to help on Gnome 3 DVD Sleeve 18:10:18 terrorpup, as vuntz said... It's done 18:10:18 vuntz: can one see that sleeve somewhere? 18:10:29 suseROCKs: re ETA: for? GNOME 3.0 or our image? 18:10:38 vuntz, our image 18:10:43 cool 18:11:03 don't know, fcrozat is working on that 18:11:16 then there are two more action items about the KDE promo DVDs 18:11:16 3.0 image in the next few hours, promodvd image for monday, I guess 18:11:52 kult 18:12:03 vuntz: as always blazingly fast. nice job :) 18:12:03 when is the KDE promo DVD coming, I thought we were doing openSUSE LIFE as well 18:12:17 then there are two more action items about the KDE promo DVDs 18:12:19 credits should go to fcrozat and DimStar, not me :-) 18:12:19 Bug #676695 and Bug #676696 18:12:26 openSUSE bug 676695 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce KDE promo DVD/CD iso" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676695 18:12:26 vuntz: Rlihm reviewed them and was not happy - and Andreas N did not answer yet 18:12:27 openSUSE bug 676696 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce KDE promo DVD/CD sleeve" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676696 18:12:41 sorry for joining in late on the GNOME sleeve/ring design 18:12:46 AJaeger: ah, wasn't aware... He didn't have mail access for most of last week, so he couldn't answer 18:13:04 vuntz: Mailed him yesterday, rlihm is not back that long... 18:13:23 so he was back, not sure he got mail access fixed; but he went in GNOME release mode too... 18:13:26 henne: The KDE ones are on track, should finish anytime onw 18:13:38 vuntz: If you see him on IRC, please ping him... 18:13:56 he's away right now 18:14:13 vuntz: I meant Andreas 18:14:30 yes, he's away right now :-) 18:14:47 (he's andreasn on gimpnet, btw) 18:14:47 vuntz: Ok ;) Just double checking since rlihm is away as well ;) 18:14:56 henne: Next AIs ;) 18:15:19 well if anyone needs help on those sleeves, let me know 18:15:44 okay thats it for project AIs 18:15:46 Board action items you can find in bugzilla with this link. http://bit.ly/opensuse_board_ais 18:15:48 are we doing opensuse life pressed dvd? 18:16:05 terrorpup, we never have before, I don't think. 18:16:06 not that I know of no 18:16:08 terrorpup: No, we're not. 18:16:24 jos talked about it SCALE marketing meeting 18:16:43 oh, that sucks. that would be a nice one to have a very limit run on 18:16:55 then tell jos to show up at the project meetings next time you see him :) 18:17:02 (fwiw, I'm not going to follow this meeting; I'm busy releasing GNOME 3 just right now -- if you need me for a topic, ping me) 18:17:10 vuntz: ping 18:17:16 henne: I hate you :-) 18:17:17 vuntz: just testing ;) 18:17:22 see, it works! 18:17:27 vuntz: i'll always need you 18:17:47 I propose a resolution to ping vuntz evey 20 minutes for the heck of it 18:17:55 hehe 18:17:59 suseROCKs: -1 18:18:03 henne: Love too. I need to catch up with him. 18:18:19 suseROCKs: 20 mins is too seldom ;) 18:18:25 so who talk to jos about LI-F-E dvds? 18:18:27 hehe 18:18:43 vuntz: ping 18:19:03 bear454: minutes not seconds! 18:19:11 should we even be doing it? They're a spinoff (and a damn good one) but if we do for them, what do we do for other spinoffs that demand equal attention? 18:19:11 * bear454 ducks 18:19:25 suseROCKs: we just do our best 18:19:39 next thing you know you're pressing discs for the entire SUSE Gallery 18:19:59 right 18:20:05 okay lets see what Jos comes up with on his own 18:20:15 lets continue with board AIs 18:20:21 bear454: that may become a serious hassle ;) 18:20:27 Board action items you can find in bugzilla with this link. http://bit.ly/opensuse_board_ais 18:20:34 henne he asked us about what DVD to press at the marketing hackfest 18:20:48 terrorpup: please take it up with Jos 18:20:53 terrorpup: okay? 18:21:08 and I remember that we ask about getting some of the LIFE ones pressed, even Calos agree as it would be good for schools 18:21:18 henne: np will do 18:21:22 ok 18:21:30 Bug #670594 18:21:34 openSUSE bug 670594 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Write an announcement about the new process of creating the foundation." [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670594 18:22:06 this one is really getting embarrassing... 18:22:23 the whole foundation topic is 18:22:53 henne I'm wondering if who will be part of the seats are decided? 18:23:10 also I can't join foundation ML I don't know why 18:23:28 izabelvalverde: everything is undecided. we are talking about the announcement of the opening of the process... 18:23:34 there a maillist? 18:23:42 henne thanks 18:23:48 terrorpup: thats exactly what this announcement is for 18:24:16 I'll take this one over 18:24:24 and work with the news team on the announcement 18:24:38 okay? 18:24:50 agreed 18:24:56 was this blocked because of the news team? 18:25:00 henne: Let alan review it as well - otherwise agreed 18:25:11 alan wrote it 18:25:15 prusnak, no just alan juggling too many things lately. 18:25:50 when i look into the bug there is a draft by alan from 8th march 18:25:51 prusnak: Ah, didn't read the bug before 18:26:07 and comment about news team taking it over 18:26:09 Then let's move forward... 18:26:17 prusnak: But nobody told the news team ;-( 18:26:18 was there a miscommunication? 18:26:29 So, henne is part of news team, let him drive it ;) 18:27:03 m 18:27:05 hm 18:27:39 prusnak: Speak up. To me it does not look like miscommunication but lack of communication - it was not handed over to the news team... 18:27:52 (at least not to my knowledge) 18:27:54 yes. thats the case 18:28:03 okay, i just wanted to make clear what was the problem 18:28:10 so we can (try to) avoid it in the future 18:28:11 no one is driving this topic anymore... 18:28:14 in any way 18:28:43 frankly i find this very strange 18:29:11 but hey, thats me... 18:29:42 hrm 18:29:50 okay lets continue if no one is interested :) 18:29:59 ill take over and talk to the news team 18:30:02 it's not strange, it's unfortunate 18:30:08 thanks for taking it over 18:30:09 well the draft itself looks good 18:30:25 Bug #670589 18:30:28 openSUSE bug 670589 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Review the openSUSE Strategy Document" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670589 18:30:58 im rtrying to get with Alan on that one 18:30:58 mrdocs: did you do anything to it? 18:31:08 except review none 18:31:23 well as agreed in last meeting, if review isn't done by today's meeting, we go ahead and post as is 18:31:29 suseROCKs: +1 18:31:30 yup 18:31:30 yes please 18:31:35 so go for it 18:31:39 Awesome 18:31:47 if need be we revise 18:31:54 Could you do me a favor and check with Alan again? I had some conversation with him last week and he has some more comments on it. 18:32:12 AJaeger: about the strategy documment? 18:32:18 Let's just ask him - and quickly resolve those if there are any. 18:32:24 prusnak: Yes. 18:32:32 no 18:32:49 So, I suggest send an email to Alan and if no answer by Friday - release. 18:33:10 alan is traveling this week, so even if we agreed on an extension, Friday isn't realistic 18:33:16 sorry. we procastinated like 5 months on this now!# 18:33:21 Then make i Monday. 18:33:28 if there was no comment since 9th feb then i really doubt there will be one until friday 18:33:30 jeez 18:33:32 or monday 18:33:37 or anytime 18:33:50 henne: I agree and I'm as unhappy as you are - but a few more days will not hurt - and let's make it a quick deadline. 18:34:11 so what do we do if this one passes again? 18:34:13 make a new one? 18:34:26 business as usual ; 18:34:27 is alan aware of the todays deadline? 18:34:29 and frankly after 6 months of "doing the strategy" i don't really think it matters 18:34:34 anymore 18:34:41 What I keep hearing is "there's some changes that need to be made" which is fine... but I'm not hearing is *WHAT* needs to be changed 18:35:13 lets vote please 18:35:15 I second what henne plus I think one (more) hard deadline until monday doesn't harm 18:35:24 +1 18:35:30 stragey for opensuse or the foundation 18:35:32 no problems here 18:35:35 opensuse 18:35:38 but if there is no reaction until monday > release 18:35:47 ok what exactly are we voting? 18:35:53 to release or to wait til Monday to release? 18:35:59 its simpole 18:36:13 do we want to extend the deadline till monday or not? 18:36:18 -1 18:36:21 -1 18:36:33 wouldn't stragey be more marketing? 18:36:46 umm you just double-negatived :-) 18:36:48 monday +1, but im not going to make a fuss 18:36:57 terrorpup, no strategy is all encompassing about the focus onf the Project 18:37:04 monday +1 18:37:12 but as a very hard deadline 18:37:12 terrorpup: Jos asked the board in December(!!!) about reviewing this document and putting it up for a vote for the membership 18:37:41 suseROCKs: your vote please 18:37:43 delayed serveral times and then i got on board and wanted some more time 18:37:47 seems the board isn't so much interested in strategy ;-/ 18:37:56 rhorstkoetter: yeah we all agree on that very strongly i think ;) 18:38:04 I want to vote for Monday but I'm feeling it sends a very bad message to ourselves that we can continue to procrastinate and ignore deadlines we set for ourselves. 18:38:07 dragotin: Some members of the board were very involved. 18:38:19 yet the strategy document is so very important it deserves the attention that its been ignored for so long 18:38:20 suseROCKs: just make up your mind :) 18:38:22 suseROCKs: Alan is not here today, let's give him a chance. 18:38:37 ok, just when you heard strategy, it usually marketing, I will shut up now 18:38:41 dragotin: I am.. just it got drowned by other issues 18:39:01 ok I put in a +1 for Monday with a rider wagging my finger at the continued missed deadlines on this matter and don't mess up our other deadlines again in the future please! 18:39:17 * AJaeger will not ask for another extension - thanks. 18:39:35 okay. monday it is then 18:40:29 prusnak: you ok with that ? 18:40:31 I am 18:40:36 i voted 18:40:51 and the vote is over, so what's not ok to be with? 18:40:52 :) 18:40:55 okay i have updated the AU 18:40:57 AI 18:41:13 Bug #682098 18:41:17 openSUSE bug 682098 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Decide how we go forward with contributor gifts." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/682098 18:41:37 * rhorstkoetter afk for 2 minutes 18:41:37 Did I send my updated text to the board? 18:41:47 this is what AJaeger brought up on the mailinglist 18:42:05 henne: I wrote an update to my first email some time after - did I send that one? 18:42:20 Btw. I can post my email to bugzilla if you like, there's nothing secret in it. 18:42:33 yes you did 18:42:49 AJaeger, if there's nothing secret in it, what's the point? Post something more interesting like your banking PIN number 18:42:54 Or we can discuss elsewhere - I just think a large forum will not help. 18:42:58 if its to be a t-shirt, It would be *awesome* to do a different design. Something about making openSUSE happen ? 18:43:18 bear454: Let me quote the beginning of my text, ok? 18:43:55 In the past, Novell had a list of contributors to openSUSE. Novell 18:43:56 send them one openSUSE box product as thank you. That list has grown 18:43:57 over the last 15 years and includes upstream authors of some projects, 18:43:59 AJaeger: i am wondering why you ask the board this 18:43:59 beta testers and translators. 18:44:00 Right now that list contains around 300+ entries. Looking at the list of 18:44:02 contributors, I see that it is a pretty unfair selection of folks. There're 18:44:03 people in it, that haven't done anything for openSUSE 11.4 and there are 18:44:05 people missing. 18:44:06 So, this whole concept of who gets a "Thank you" needs a reevaluation. 18:44:44 i think T-shirts and stickers are good replacement for opensuse boxes 18:44:45 has there been any input from the marketing folks ? 18:44:51 re 18:45:10 henne: I wanted to bring it to the board so that a) the know that Novell is not doing this in the same way as we did in the past and b) to help find a new way for it. 18:45:13 if we are doing promodvds by ourselves, we can add some of these as well, but i don't think that is necessary 18:45:29 AJaeger: a) sounds right. b) very wrong 18:45:44 b) is ask for advice ;) 18:45:44 this is something for the marketing team 18:45:47 i think 18:46:07 * tigerfoot see a hot potatoes flying 18:46:10 henne: If that's the advise of the collected wisdom of the board, I'll take it up with them ;) 18:46:34 I never got a boxset, I want one. :( 18:46:56 terrorpup: thats exactly why we don'T want to do it anymore like we did it in the past 18:47:07 Exactly that is the problem. Some people received a box set in the past that are valuable contributors - and many others like terrorpup never got one... 18:47:17 anyway 18:47:18 I never got one in the past. 18:47:20 terrorpup, Its really expensive to send individually to everyone and our list of members has grown a lot since we used to do that 18:47:24 this is something for the marketing team 18:47:26 if you want a totally new idea: reward contributors with development hours (something like "get your favorite bug fixed") 18:47:27 It's a tottally unfair process - and it does not scale. 18:47:29 agreed? 18:47:33 henne, I disagree 18:47:40 i move we ask the marketing folks to discuss and come up with proprosals 18:47:57 This is about giving thanks from the Project to the Project's contributors. It's not about selling something. 18:48:00 henne agreed 18:48:02 proposals for us to review and procastinate on for 6 months? ;) 18:48:59 henne: just in time for 12.1 :) 18:49:01 henne: only 4 months procrastination, so it doesn't interfere with 12.1 prep 18:49:05 I believe marketing team can work on it and make a proposal 18:49:08 sounds good? 18:49:26 voting again? 18:49:47 ok 18:50:07 what's the exact question to vote upon? 18:50:08 well, T-Shirt are nice, but I like to get a pin, like what they use to give out in the boxes back our SUSE 6 or 7, when the words under saying openSUSE contributors, I think that with a nice cert would be awesome 18:50:36 not a button, a geeko pin so I am clear 18:50:37 yup 18:50:48 exactly 18:50:53 VOTE: do we want to let the marketing team decide how to take the contributor rewards to the next level? 18:51:02 and cert to put on the wall is a nice thing 18:51:07 +1 18:51:10 +1 18:51:13 +1 18:51:15 henne: Assign the AI to me,I'll discuss wit hthe marketing team and come back with a proposal. 18:51:21 add a poster cheat cheet 18:51:31 AJaeger: no need to 18:51:45 AJaeger: we don't need a proposal... 18:51:49 just do it 18:51:54 * terrorpup show tigerfoot that he has the master sheet anyway 18:52:07 henne: I typed while you typed. 18:52:14 i c 18:52:18 okay next AI 18:52:19 * cboltz wonders if the "get your favorite bug fixed" idea scared everyone who knows my list of open bugs ;-) 18:52:25 So, let me rephrase: Assign the AI to me, I discuss with the marketing team and take care of execution ;) 18:52:29 New rule! No typing while others are typing! :-) 18:52:34 Bug #670590 18:52:37 openSUSE bug 670590 in openSUSE.org (Board) "user search for bugzilla" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670590 18:52:40 AJaeger perfect 18:52:56 prusnak: have you seen any progress here? 18:53:05 i opened a new bug 18:53:19 learned that it is now being solved by completely another people 18:53:24 henne: bwiederman has a nice tool for openbug day .. 18:53:28 cboltz: I doubt we have very much development time to assign so your idea is hard to realise 18:53:33 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=682324 18:53:43 and after initial chit-chat they're silent know 18:53:56 so some progress, but far from ideal 18:54:07 with a random list ( cool for user that don't know what to search ) I feel lucky ! 18:54:10 prusnak: did you see any CC mails? 18:54:28 prusnak: with my last bugzilla change i saw them discussing it with me in the CC 18:54:31 prusnak: that bug is inaccessable :\ 18:54:37 see that on http://openbugs.zq1.de/?topic=kde 18:54:59 mrdocs: ah yes, another thing, the bug is NovellOnly and I cannot unset it 18:55:09 yeah thats the product 18:55:21 no CC mails 18:55:25 oic 18:55:49 prusnak: you can CC mrdocs so that he can see the bug 18:55:54 okay then lets wait what happens 18:56:13 thats it for AIs then 18:56:20 is this ever going to get fixed? I'm starting to think this is a pie in the sky dream 18:56:58 hint for everybody: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userlookup.cgi 18:57:02 #info henne took over Bug #670594, we postponed 670589 18:57:06 openSUSE bug 670594 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Write an announcement about the new process of creating the foundation." [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670594 18:57:06 #undo 18:57:06 Removing item from minutes: 18:57:16 then copy&paste the mail to bugzilla 18:57:32 it's really only the icon/link to userlookup that is missing 18:58:11 (and I'm not sure if the bugzilla team is aware that userlookup.cgi works for everybody - my experience says: don't tell them ;-) 18:58:30 I think we better not tell them. They'll see it as a bug and close it down :-) 18:58:32 cboltz: agree ... 18:58:45 #info GNOME and KDE promo DVD's are on track. henne took over Bug #670594, we postponed Bug #670589, gave Bug #682098 back to the marketing team and decided to wait for feedback on Bug #670590 18:58:57 openSUSE bug 670594 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Write an announcement about the new process of creating the foundation." [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670594 18:58:57 suseROCKs: that's exactly what happened in the past :-( 18:58:58 openSUSE bug 670589 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Review the openSUSE Strategy Document" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670589 18:58:59 openSUSE bug 682098 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Decide how we go forward with contributor gifts." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/682098 18:59:00 openSUSE bug 670590 in openSUSE.org (Board) "user search for bugzilla" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670590 18:59:10 okay next topic then 18:59:37 henne: I assign 682098 to myself then... 18:59:43 (on behalf of the marketing team) 19:00:02 AJaeger: sure 19:00:19 AJaeger: please also change the component :) 19:00:31 #topic Status Reports 19:00:38 Teams and individuals send various status reports around. For instance Coolo sends one for the distribution to opensuse-factory, the OBS team publishes meeting minutes on their mailinglist, the boosters their "What are the boosters up to" blogposts. Are there any questions regarding those or do we need to discuss anything in detail? Or does anyone wants to give a live status report of something? 19:01:06 I'm sure everyone is aware of the new Versioning scheme for our next releases? 19:02:05 yes we are 19:02:13 * tigerfoot happy can open a bug, I'm on 11.5 will be on 12.1 in few days :-) 19:02:39 I guess that means we need to update bugzilla to have 12.1 component? 19:02:47 or is it already? 19:02:52 coolo will take care of all of that... 19:03:03 no need for us to do anything :) 19:03:20 anything else on status reports? 19:03:54 manugupt1, prusnak, v|_|ntz: would you care to give a little one about GSoC? 19:03:54 I have none 19:04:01 i do 19:04:09 oops.. we forgot to ping vuntz periodically 19:04:28 yes 19:04:30 vuntz: is full G3 launch actually don't ping 19:04:35 vuntz: ping 19:04:38 this week :) 19:04:38 :) 19:04:38 lol 19:04:43 we've had a lots of discussion on opensuse-project mailing list 19:04:44 we could do now together. ping vuntz on 3 19:04:45 1 19:04:45 2 19:04:46 henne: I have completely lost track about it as I am applyine myself 19:04:49 which is good 19:04:50 vuntz: ping 19:04:52 ping vuntz 19:04:56 vuntz: ping 19:05:00 rofl 19:05:07 this is awesome funny 19:05:08 But you can get a lot of proposals from my region 19:05:09 ping dos attac 19:05:13 currently we have 16 mentors and 28 students in melange tool 19:05:29 I can see the headlines now... "openSUSE impedes the release of GNOME 3!" :-) 19:05:43 so i am not afraid we'll have problems to fill all given slots 19:05:54 phew... ;) 19:06:07 good 19:06:08 are they equally distributed? 19:06:11 Deadline is Friday, isn't it? 19:06:13 prusnak: theres a rule only 20% of slots will be given 19:06:14 students application deadline is on friday 1900 UTC 19:06:26 20% of the number of students I believe 19:06:31 henne: what do you mean by equally distributed? 19:07:11 prusnak: ideas vs number of students applying 19:07:18 prusnak: is there 1.75 student for any mentor 19:07:24 every* 19:07:32 sucks to be .75 of a student 19:07:32 ah yes 19:07:34 or is one of the projects overloaed? 19:07:43 there are around 18 ideas 19:07:47 for 28 students 19:08:05 1 idea has 4 students, 3 ideas have 2 students 19:08:08 rest is 1:1 19:08:13 * mrdocs is afk 5 mins 19:08:33 so yes, we have pretty good distribution of ideas 19:08:37 prusnak: do you see students for the Hermes things? 19:08:50 dragotin: no 19:08:54 dragotin: none yet 19:08:55 :-( 19:09:07 go to http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2011 19:09:10 * henne gives dragotin a ikea cookie 19:09:11 all mentors can view ideas at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2011 19:09:19 you can review and vote for the proposals 19:09:47 they only love the shiny stuff, not the hard bread 19:09:49 but i guess we'll send an email to opensuse mentors once the list of ideas is closed 19:10:54 okay 19:11:02 anything else? 19:11:35 okay next topic then 19:11:40 #info no questions about the status updates. prusnak gave a short update on GSoC: We have 18 projects, 16 mentors and 28 students in melange right now. 19:11:56 #topic openSUSE Conference 19:12:22 so where are we at with the conference? 19:12:35 Web page is http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Conference_Planning_2011 19:12:38 well as Jos sent out an email on this yesterday inviting people to join up 19:12:58 and I think while prusnak and AJaeger are looking for locations, we should go ahead and do other planning, and not wait for that detail first 19:13:18 I had today a meeting in Nuernberg with some folks and we've rejected what I had so far - a hotel is not the right place - and decided to look at some more community like places. 19:13:24 I plan to start a thread on program/theme discussion to get the ball rolling. Planned ETA for that is tomorrow 19:13:25 AJaeger I don't know if is fixed but Jos and I tried to add few things and didn't work 19:13:25 Good dates are just before or after Kernel Submit ... 19:13:40 I got great help from our facitily folks. 19:13:44 suseROCKs: appreciated 19:13:56 AJaeger, Can't we just rent the castle and dungeon? 19:13:59 tigerfoot: A very bad idea - people will be for 10 days in Prague and adding another 4.... 19:14:04 that must happen *quickly* 19:14:07 ... is too much for them. 19:14:07 beer garden 19:14:32 all the beer, fun and location thing is not the problem 19:14:50 more that we need a motto, an idea, attracting CFP and such 19:14:59 we plan to have 3 proposals before Easter - and if we're lucky we can even be further at that time... 19:15:01 AJaeger: but anyway they stay around for Oktober Fest :-) 19:15:15 dragotin, and you can count on that to begin tomorrow (or possibly even tonight after the meeting) :-) 19:15:16 conference is for me now the topmost priority until Easter 19:15:33 dragotin: Yes, right. A motto is the most important thing. 19:15:40 AJaeger: bad idea to use floating holidays as relative measurements 19:15:58 i gave up with looking for a venue in prague, i had to solve other issues 19:16:00 Wasn't Easter last Sunday? 19:16:03 and it is too late for prague anyway 19:16:04 I would target to have a motto that is related to the collaboration thing 19:16:08 izabelvalverde: I could edit the page today, if you failed, send me what you wnat to edit and I do it... 19:16:19 suseROCKs: 23 April 19:16:22 Guys, easter is Friday in two weeks 19:16:30 Friday?? 19:16:54 actually the sunday after friday in two weeks 19:16:55 suseROCKs: Friday to Monday :D 19:16:56 yeah jesus came early... 19:16:57 dragotin: "april's fool? No, we are serious about it!" ;-) 19:17:03 Once we have a motto, we can start with thinking about program, speakers, keynotes - even if the date is not final yet 19:17:07 cboltz: not bad actually 19:17:20 something alike that direction 19:17:23 AJaeger thanks ... just like to add some name 19:17:27 suseROCKs: good friday is my target ;) 19:17:43 .o0( good friday :-) 19:17:55 So I have to wait two more weeks for the 75% off After-Easter Candy sale :-) 19:17:59 cboltz: Good idea but not many will get it. Continue thinking in that direction 19:18:06 do we (/you) want to focus on collaboration again ? 19:18:21 of course not the same as last year 19:18:29 #info we're searching for a motto, connected to last years (collaboration across borders) 19:18:31 yaloki: it was a powerfull topic and I liked it. 19:18:36 really 19:18:52 but I think the openess and will to collaborate is associated with our community already 19:19:03 and we should try to continue that path 19:19:05 yaloki, my hope next time we'll blend the successes of the last two years. Making sure we extend more time for actual project discussion/collaboration but also the sucess of the second one where we extended a hand out to the world. They can be balanced. Not one or the other like we did last time 19:19:19 I don't think it should be our main topic 19:19:34 yaloki: send patches :) 19:19:34 yaloki: specific reasons? 19:19:38 FOSDEM or other conferences (where everyone is present anyway) are more suitable venus from 19:19:42 s/from$// 19:19:56 yaloki, well, join in on the thread when I post it soon :-) 19:20:01 alas, I think we do have enough issues to solve on our own 19:20:10 it'll be in -project until (as Jos says) people bitch and we move on to a conference list 19:20:11 yaloki: hehe, thats true 19:20:13 and I am the last who would voice against collaboration 19:20:27 suseROCKs: okay 19:20:37 point taken 19:20:46 but then please chip in to find a better tlopic 19:20:49 topic 19:20:52 do we want the same duration 4 days ? 19:20:59 ok, thought it was the topic now and here :) 19:21:20 yaloki: not really. suseROCKs/Jos want to move it to -project@ 19:21:27 tigerfoot, specifics about the conference should be on the ML. Here we cover the high-level overviews. Otherwise we'll never finish our meetings if we get bogged down in details 19:21:36 ok, will add my cents there then 19:21:54 suseROCKs: please try to speed the whole process up, we're already really late 19:21:57 okay cool 19:21:58 and bear454 is anxiously awaiting another topic to come up :-) 19:22:11 #undo 19:22:11 Removing item from minutes: 19:22:15 dragotin, ok I will speed it up from tmw to tonight. That's as speedy as I can get it :-) 19:22:45 #action suseROCKs start discussion about the conference motto on opensuse-project@opensuse.org 19:22:47 no, I mean, set target dates when we come up with a CFP and such 19:23:01 dragotin, exactly 19:23:01 so that the discussion doesn't go endless [if possible] ;-) 19:23:14 okay anything else regarding the conference? 19:23:20 already plan to put a cap on when the discussion should end and move on to the next line 19:23:37 It will be more community/geeky as last year I hope 19:23:40 location must be determined early too 19:23:52 as it will be important for people to decide whether they will/can attend or not 19:24:20 yaloki: do you think location is that important for the decision? 19:24:22 there are people working on the location thing 19:24:29 dragotin: totally 19:24:34 yaloki: I'm working on location - but we're soo late that dragotin and myself think we should do location and motto in parallel 19:24:35 * henne agrees 19:24:36 yaloki, in the last meeting it was decided to look at NUE or Prague. Simply because the bodies are there to look at locations. If you have suggestions of other locations, go for it. I'd like to see something that's easy for everyone to get to 19:24:37 yaloki: do you mean town-wise or venue wise 19:24:37 dragotin: price for flight, etc... 19:24:38 yaloki I sent an email with both ideas defense 19:24:50 * bear454 wishes the conference time aligned with a Novell/SUSE Hack Week 19:24:54 * VenomVelvet suggests Dresden 19:24:55 yaloki: so town wise 19:25:09 all on -project then? okay 19:25:17 again like last week: we don't need to find a citys name 19:25:39 we need to find a location in a city that can hold our event, is payable, reachable etc. etc. 19:25:43 the campus 19:25:46 so come up with a plan 19:26:02 and you stand a chance :) 19:26:05 I believe city and date are the most important thing to start 19:26:13 exactly 19:26:19 with a host location 19:26:28 The Campus in Dresden of the Technical University. In direct vicinity of the Main Station, which is connected to the airport as well 19:26:48 VenomVelvet: come up with a plan means doing it :) 19:26:49 VenomVelvet: don't discuss it here, please make a precise proposition on the mailing-list 19:26:53 VenomVelvet: can you be a local conact and organize it there 19:26:58 other projects to a "Call for location" 19:27:00 yes exactly 19:27:02 VenomVelvet: We need also local organisators - and we have those in NUE and PRague 19:27:02 VenomVelvet: with a potential location, costs, availability, etc... 19:27:08 But honestly, I think its too late 19:27:24 we should quickly ACK on NUE and go for it 19:27:26 its not too late 19:27:27 ok, if it is too late... 19:27:34 it isn't 19:27:36 henne: If we do it this year, it is late already 19:27:37 and plan for Prague and others 2012 19:27:38 if we have a plan by ASAP its okay 19:27:45 no matter which plan 19:27:45 but it's a lot more than "oh, this place would be cool" :) 19:28:11 VenomVelvet: (I didn't mean to imply you said that btw) 19:28:13 just saying 19:28:18 there are a *lot* of details 19:28:34 Just remember one of ther easons that NUE and Prague have had preferential treatment is because many SUSEans are there already and reduces our costs of shipping them to another location. 19:28:37 where to ship stuff, have someone who can ACK lots of boxes and hardware and finds a place to store it 19:28:41 etc... 19:28:43 * yaloki speaks from experience 19:28:44 Cost is a big factor no matter where you look 19:28:50 yes. its 500 people that expect something 19:28:58 keep that in mind. come up with a plan 19:29:01 yesterday 19:29:07 or the day before 19:29:10 lets please continue 19:29:24 yep 19:29:28 topic++ 19:29:41 VenomVelvet: please don't let this discourage you. if you think you can pull this off. do it :) 19:29:44 Let's use mailing list and add also comments to the wiki page I mentioned initially. 19:29:45 VenomVelvet: please make the proposal on the list, with as many details as possible :) 19:29:54 ok 19:30:25 #topic permission@ requests 19:30:36 now bear454 can wake up :-) 19:30:37 Several requests for use of the trademarks have been received through permission@. The board has needs to vote. 19:30:47 first: b.i.b. Bielefeld training, use of the openSuse logo on the cover page 19:31:04 crap..meeting today!? and I've been on the phone all day.. crap 19:31:21 henne, not if its "openSuse" :-) 19:31:39 i'm with suseROCKs on this one 19:31:45 what's the b.i.b. in "b.i.b. Bielefeld" ? 19:32:02 yaloki: name of company 19:32:14 i'll give this a +1 if we add to the answer that they can't make any official claims about any certification 19:32:15 yaloki: I didn't look it up 19:32:23 a company that does opensuse trainings for monies ? 19:32:38 yaloki: :-) 19:32:41 yaloki: its a public thing i think 19:32:44 hm, well, if they give back x EUR per training 19:33:11 yaloki, as we don't have the mechanism to receive monies yet, we came up with a solution in last meeting.... 19:33:33 yaloki: http://bib.de/ 19:33:37 Any requester that uses openSUSE trademark where money is involved, gets a 1 year permission grant and must file for renewal 19:34:13 can we please vote? 19:34:23 +1 with the yearly renewal 19:34:29 +1 (already voted per email actually) 19:34:37 +1 with the yearly renewal 19:34:40 +1 if we add to the answer that they can't make any official claims about any certification and a yearly renewal 19:34:44 +1 19:34:47 okay 19:34:59 yes add henne's disclaimer 19:35:20 second: openSUSE Certified Appliances 19:35:41 bear454, You're up! ;-) 19:35:50 :) 19:36:21 this is actually not a trademark but a certification issue i think 19:36:56 as the only certification we have is association to the project this is a non-issue i think 19:37:05 bear454, Care to clarify? 19:37:51 Bear types with a pencil, so be patient.... 19:38:01 seeking permission to mark/market SUSE Studio appliances built to openSUSE kiwi configs as openSUSE product 19:38:32 link from software.o.o, report on news, etc. 19:39:02 you don't need to seek permission for that... 19:39:07 can we agree on that? 19:39:08 go for it 19:39:17 the distinction is that these appliances are 1:1 with what openSUSE officially distributes; I'd rather not just consider them derivations 19:39:39 henne: I'm not sure whether the current version of the trademark guidelines covers this. 19:39:47 That's why cschum is revisiting them.... 19:39:54 henne, in my conversation with bear454 I think he acknowledges he does not require formal permission for that, but feels it is respectful to get official trademark approval. Can't say I see anything wrong with that :-) 19:39:56 * yaloki thinks it's a huge can of worms 19:39:59 interesting question 19:40:09 yaloki: ? 19:40:20 suseROCKs: either you have to or not 19:40:29 what does it represent in the first place, to be "an opensuse product" ? 19:40:43 developed by the opensuse community ? 19:40:43 yaloki: the association to the project 19:40:56 thats how we effectively handle it today 19:41:00 based on openSUSE X built with Suse Studio 19:41:03 and should handle in the future i think... 19:41:13 okay, so I do openSUSE + packman on it and call it an opensuse product 19:41:38 yaloki: That's covered in the trademark guidelines - you have to remove the openSUSE trademarks. 19:41:40 difference, is, this isn't just 'based on openSUSE' - it is openSUSE, in a different package 19:41:40 yaloki: if you do it as opensuse initiative, sure why now? 19:41:43 not? 19:41:55 AJaeger: so how is it an opensuse product then if I have to remove the trademarks 19:41:57 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 19:42:11 henne but it raises the question what is an opensuse initative. 19:42:29 Do I just do something and call it such? Official blessing? 19:42:34 it like this super artificial question with the fail geeko 19:42:38 which weve never been clear on before. Although I think we're starting to get an idea of what "initiative" means nowadays 19:42:45 we are putting up walls for contribution 19:42:48 for NOTHING 19:43:10 I don't know 19:43:17 surely don't want to put up any walls 19:43:23 I would check with Cornelius again 19:43:28 I know we do not want it too complicated but still, if X subscribes on the openSUSE mailing lists and states he will do the "openSUSE Y project", do we recognize that as part of openSUSE? 19:43:35 but without a somewhat clearer definition, you'll never be able to clarify what is an opensuse product and what isn't 19:43:41 Let me try another perspective, I'm a Studio developer looking to be responsible for maintaining virtual formats of openSUSE desktops 19:43:44 exactly 19:44:07 AJaeger: depends on X, Y and other things 19:44:26 AJaeger: but by default, yes 19:44:28 bear454: then you just do it. no need to seek anyones approval 19:44:49 henne, perhaps you didn't read earlier? it wasn't "need" it was "want" 19:44:51 OK done - who reviews my work? 19:44:55 henne: I would not be sure about that. Check with the studio-smallprint again 19:45:04 bear454: yer mom 19:45:22 he *wants* the support and to show respect. Look how many are out there that are supposed to get approval and are ignoring us? He's doing the conscientious thing. Don't down him for that. 19:45:24 I think bear454's case is fine, let's just approve it. 19:45:30 dragotin: hes a studio developer... 19:45:48 a symbolic +1 can go a long way. Gives them sense of security and support from the project. 19:45:48 ok, sorry than 19:46:08 suseROCKs: yeah right. and soon everybody asks to whipe their ass 19:46:21 and we approve, review and god knows what everythign 19:46:37 i'm sorry but this destroys years of hard work we have put into this project 19:46:41 ok fine, so let's be unfriendly from now on and discourage people from taking the cautious approach of asking us and just bypassing us completely 19:46:46 to be an open flurishing and cool project 19:46:55 bear454: mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate to consider the issue in general, because we had that sort of unanswered questions with the previous board too, it's not about your request specifically 19:47:08 henne, Then just simiply +1 about it instead of arguing over and over whether he should or shouldn't do it. 19:47:18 +1 takes about 1/5th of a second 19:47:37 plus we can say its an endorsed [roject 19:47:42 project even 19:47:49 * henne endorses bear454 in all ways possible 19:47:53 mrdocs: same question, what makes it endorsed or not ? 19:48:00 henne: and my mom, too? 19:48:00 and bear454 knows that 19:48:11 yaloki: exactly there is a lot of grey there 19:48:15 I don't consider trademark approval to be a sign of endorsement and we shouldn't imply that at all 19:48:22 * yaloki wonders whether we need a technical comittee to have a look at such things 19:48:37 bear454: yes! 19:48:43 a trademark permission simply acknowledges their existence and states that we don't object to their existence that's all 19:48:45 yaloki: volunteering ? :) 19:48:59 sure, but it's more complex than that 19:49:07 would have a negative side effect too 19:49:15 and tbh we don't want to become fedora 19:49:20 no no no 19:49:28 too much bureacracy already 19:49:31 yep 19:49:58 but again, and I don't have the answer, what makes it an endorsed project or not ? 19:50:21 I think "endorsed project' is a wholly different topic from "trademark permission" 19:50:29 vote to acknowledge bear454 as official maintainer of openSUSE desktop releases in virtual formats ? 19:50:34 there is no trademark permission here... 19:50:34 yaloki: Exactly. We all consider openSUSE Education a part of openSUSE - but why? 19:50:37 because at some point, a conflict will come up, as well as the question "okay, why him and not me ?" 19:50:46 obviously an endorsed product would get trademark permission. But a trademark permitted project is not necessarily an endorsed project 19:50:59 AJaeger: because it's long term contributors who run it 19:51:11 AJaeger: very difficult to define as rules 19:51:21 suseROCKs: correct 19:51:24 and very unneccesarry 19:51:40 i suggest we do not need rules, but policy 19:51:46 different 19:51:47 henne: there's no endorsement if everything is endorsed 19:52:03 and I hate rules 19:52:09 same 19:52:16 but the legitimate question will come up "why him and not me" 19:52:20 policy is guidelines 19:52:20 suseROCKs: per our earlier conversation a few weeks ago.. I may be unavailable to discuss the topic .. just got crazy busy.. again.. I'll do my best to be here. 19:52:26 yes then dont invent imaginary situations where you would need some 19:52:29 "because I know him and I don't know you" ? 19:52:47 we don't have this situation 19:52:50 anyway, let's noch block the meeting on that :) 19:52:54 henne: we will, definitely 19:53:08 henne: just like we had a few other situations where we decided not to define anything 19:53:11 why? we have sub-projects since years 19:53:20 henne has a good point. It's better to wait until the situation arises before we discuss endlessly, than preemptively. 19:53:32 suseROCKs: exactly 19:53:40 I'm really really getting nervous with all of this 19:53:46 we have people like bear454 asking permission 19:53:53 we have people like AJaeger asking for permission 19:54:01 we have people like kostas asking our permission 19:54:15 henne: yup... friction, even if we do not want it 19:54:20 we are getting to the point where people feel not safe enough anymore 19:54:23 henne: would you feel better if I hadn't asked? I can withdraw my request if it really bugs you 19:54:25 to do whatever the fuck they want 19:54:29 henne: I didn't ask for permissions - I asked for ideas! 19:54:30 and thats what this is about! 19:54:31 but at the same time, trademarks must be protected 19:54:39 henne: that will *never* happen when legal is involved 19:54:43 mrdocs: yes. no argument about this 19:54:45 it's trademarks 19:54:47 henne, why are you assuming its fear that leads to questions? Why can't it because they are being respectful? 19:54:52 yaloki: this isnt trademarks! 19:54:57 there is no "do whatever the fuck they want" when novell has the trademarks 19:55:14 and especially not when we make it impossible to make derivatives because we "just" need to remove the branding 19:55:20 (next to impossible to do) 19:55:38 this is like so many other things in the legal space 19:55:42 a matter of risk 19:55:54 henne: the name openSUSE is trademarked so, sure, it's a trademark thing :) 19:55:55 yaloki: it should be easy to remove the branding with the branding packages - if not, file a bug! 19:56:03 how much riks do you think has bear454 to get sued by novell for trademark infringements? 19:56:22 but we're already working on new debranding-guidelines which make it much more easier 19:56:30 dragotin: awesome, much needed 19:56:33 why would bear454 debrand anything? 19:56:38 and AFAIK studio will support them quikcly 19:56:38 but bear454 wasn't doing it out of minimizing risk, he was doing it out of deference and reverence to the project. Can't you guys appreciate that?? 19:56:52 why would izabel ask for permission to flip the friggn geeko for a fail whale picture? 19:56:57 henne: how much risk is there of pissing someone off by just deciding to go off and do it. Just 'cause I work for Novelll doesn't make it right for the project 19:57:02 henne: because it's trademarked 19:57:10 henne: and because novell owns the trademark 19:57:25 maybe a trademark use request isn't the right arena, but if not - what is? 19:57:48 bear454: ask for proper regulations around studio 19:57:51 bear454: no risk at all if you do it as part of the project 19:58:00 which I do... how? 19:58:13 and therein lies the quesiton that AJaeger aptly raised earlier 19:58:21 bear454: you discuss it on the ml's for instance. youre a member. you blog about it 19:58:37 bear454: youre the studio guy 19:58:47 you can't express this in policy or rules 19:59:03 if you try to you will hinder contribution 19:59:25 henne: if you don't give any guidelines at all, it's confusion, and it's exactly as bad as too many rules 19:59:41 I'm sure you guys have better stuff to argue about - I withdraw my request. 19:59:45 yaloki: the new trademark guidelines have these guidelines 20:00:07 bear454: no this is the most important argument of this whole meeting imho 20:00:30 we are starting to turn this fun project into some policy driven rules monster 20:00:55 it is already 20:00:57 on the trademarks 20:01:03 you have to ask for the right to use the trademarks 20:01:24 not if the trademark holder gives a general allowance for "good" things 20:01:27 just saying "let's have no rules" won't solve it 20:01:43 yaloki: i'm not saying "let's have no rules" 20:01:43 which the new trademark guidelines will do 20:02:25 dragotin: okay 20:02:38 i'm saying: tell people, like bear454, that they don't need to seek permissions. tell them that often and loud 20:02:45 didn't cornelius already post a draft on project ? 20:02:48 henne: ok, why ? 20:02:49 so we get rid of this trend we see 20:02:56 dragotin: several iterations 20:02:59 henne: here is a middle ground 20:03:36 1. studio rules need cleaning up 20:04:06 mrdocs: the new trademark guidelines are part of that 20:04:11 and thats WIP 20:04:17 dragotin: good news then 20:04:22 so 20:04:47 * dragotin worked on "Based on openSUSE" artwork / branding today 20:04:58 as cornelius pushes me 20:04:59 in this case then i move we give bear454 his blessing and then move on once we have the new trademark guidelines 20:05:16 I second the motion 20:05:17 +1 20:05:22 henne: just trying to understand. when you say people like bear454 don't need to seek permission, why? no one needs to seek permission ? 20:05:31 * henne dribbles some Held bier on bear454s head 20:05:53 henne: it should be Old Toad :P 20:06:06 yaloki: no because he's from the openSUSE Project 20:06:06 mrdocs: you're the Old Toad here :D 20:06:45 yaloki: because he does something which is within the interest of the openSUSE Project 20:06:48 henne: okay, but that's just moving the issue :) what makes someone "from the opensuse project" ? (and no, common sense doesn't apply, it's legal risk :)) 20:06:50 yaloki: :-D 20:07:17 yaloki: openSUSE member? 20:07:20 yaloki: yes. thats the layer of indirection I want us to stop at 20:07:21 but anyway, we won't solve it here, because there is no solution ;) 20:07:42 if somebody prints a geeko on a cup, he doesn't have to ask as its in our interest to have as many geekos as possible everywhere 20:08:14 if somebody from the project prints a geeko on his cup 20:08:29 at least the new trademakr guidel. say it this way IIRC 20:09:07 henne, Printing on your own stuff that you only use for yourself ('his cup") has nothing to do with trademark usage 20:09:09 okay. bear454 should just do it 20:09:18 okay, same example: I make an opensuse distro with packman on it, it's totally going to spread opensuse, why would I need to rebrand as I wouldn't need to ask for permission 20:09:22 :D 20:09:25 sorry :D 20:09:42 bear454 should definitely do it, that's not the debate :) 20:09:44 yaloki: yes you wouldnt have to. that doesnt mean that this is okay 20:09:48 yaloki: go and read the trademark guidelines, this is answered 20:09:57 okay, my bad 20:10:07 let's move on then :) 20:10:17 we have a motion on the virtual floor 20:10:36 third request is about old toad 20:10:43 anyone knows any news here? 20:10:55 Alan isn't here so probably not 20:11:09 let's just send him an email and ask him what the status is 20:11:41 please skip the one-year rule for this approval 20:12:02 we are still waiting for alan... 20:12:09 okay then this is postponed 20:12:09 otherwise Old Toad will end in one year 20:12:35 bear in mind that the brewery is doing that to do US a favour, thats not big money or something 20:12:52 so nobody, not me and not the brewer will renew in one year 20:12:53 oh i know.... i think its a terrific idea 20:13:02 it will stop than. 20:13:14 and for those not at FOSDEM, it was a huge hit for openSUSE 20:14:07 * mrdocs has not served that much beer since uni days 20:14:09 #info We agreed that we grant permission to B.I.B. for one year with the disclaimer that they can't make any official claims about any certification 20:14:16 dragotin, the renewal is just a formality, barring any unforseen issues, but if the case is stated that such a 1 year renewal will cause problems, we're open to hearing about that and making proper adjustment 20:14:59 since when is the 1 year renewal default? 20:15:09 it isn't 20:15:18 which is why I said what I said to dragotin 20:15:38 k 20:15:55 next ? 20:16:22 #info We agreed that bear454 doesn't have to seek permission and that he should just do it [tm] 20:16:35 well, well 20:16:36 and his mom, too 20:16:45 #info No news on the Brewery Request. Postponed 20:17:01 and his socks 20:17:12 what's the particular problem with the brewery request? 20:17:25 rhorstkoetter: legal review 20:17:29 IMO it's pretty desirablee 20:17:35 rhorstkoetter: Alan wanted to ask Novell legal. 20:17:35 mrdocs: I see 20:17:46 i never understood why but he wanted to and did 20:17:50 its hanging there now... 20:17:54 rhorstkoetter, no problem. Just need to do a legal check to understand liability since this is a consumable good that has the openSUSE trademark in it, and we, the Project, will distribute it as well in some venues 20:17:55 booze + US company and its panic everwhere 20:17:56 vuntz: why don't I have GNOME3 yet? 20:18:17 bear454: your mom has it I'm sure 8) 20:18:18 I had the notice in mind that we already accepted this but I may be wrong with that one 20:18:20 bear454: everyone was pinging him 20:18:25 okay this is going to end bad. i know it... 20:18:26 :D 20:18:30 bear454: we're checking legal liabilities still ;-) 20:18:35 #twss 20:18:37 suseROCKs: understood 20:18:48 meeting is not over yet? 20:18:58 * vuntz just released gnome 3, if that's of interest to people here :-) 20:18:59 but i totally thing the concept rocks 20:18:59 vuntz: I broke the meeting 20:19:00 neext topic 20:19:09 vuntz: really ? :) 20:19:10 vuntz, It's not over yet until we have reached our quota of pinging you :-) 20:19:19 Congratulations vuntz 20:19:20 vuntz: gratz! where will be the GNOME:STABLE:3.0 repo ready? :-))) 20:19:22 #topic Organization of this meeting 20:19:29 bear454: epic break actually ;) 20:19:34 vuntz: awesome - congratulations to the project 20:19:35 i wanted to ask one question 20:19:43 we merged the board/project meetings 20:19:48 and only do this timeslot now 20:19:51 dragotin +1, thanks vuntz 20:19:57 just checking: is this good? 20:20:11 i like it so far 20:20:12 i think it is 20:20:20 how come when I asked that question a month ago, I got battered for it? (throws arms up in air) 20:20:26 we have community here as well 20:20:33 I wouldn't do it (from my experience from another board in FOSS) 20:20:58 prusnak: will come soon; hopefully before week-end 20:21:00 * henne sends vuntz a release ping 20:21:03 okay 20:21:09 and then I have a request 20:21:22 I run the project meeting since day 1 now 20:21:26 vuntz: great, i'll buy you an icecream :) 20:21:27 henne, I am satisfied with it, with just one exception. Although it hasn't happened today, in some past meetings, it wasn't clear to community which votings were "project" votes and which were "board votes" 20:21:47 thus we would see people +1 on something that the board votes on. We need to make it clearer what is a board vote and what isn't 20:21:50 henne: you do it great, so "no". 20:21:51 * mrdocs buys ice cream for vuntz as well 20:22:08 mrdocs: since beer is in legal review? 20:22:19 suseROCKs: I tried to in the intro sentences 20:22:27 bear454: vuntz isn't so much in beer 20:22:29 bear454: inside joke about vuntz 20:22:38 suseROCKs: you know? the stuff that is also on the agenda 20:23:26 henne, all I'm saying is its the one confusion spot here that resulted in the merger of two meetings. Clarity of which is specifically project and which is specifically board. But I guess time will resolve those confusions 20:24:30 Maybe just before asking to vote we say "Board members, please vote" ? 20:24:36 okay 20:24:41 ill try to do that 20:24:44 * bear454 asks the board permission to vote on project stuff... and waits for henne to remark on his mom 20:24:55 now to my request. I want to make running this meeting round robin 20:25:12 bear454: i switched to socks now 20:25:13 henne: +1 20:25:24 we all should share in the work 20:25:26 henne, I don't see a problem with that. We all have access to run the meeting when someone else isn't around 20:25:30 bear454: You should have two votes - one for you, one for your mom ;) 20:25:42 4, don't forget my socks 20:25:44 round robin from which group? the board? 20:25:55 prusnak, yes 20:25:59 prusnak: from the regulars 20:26:24 meaning AJaeger should be part of the round robin? 20:26:36 and dragotin 20:26:40 suseROCKs: I stepped in several times already for henne ;) 20:26:48 terrorpup: 20:26:54 suseROCKs: If that means I can vote on board topics, I'm in :) 20:26:55 cboltz 20:27:00 AJaeger, for project meeting yes. But not for the combined meeting. 20:27:01 henne: stupid? I am here for fun! 20:27:22 dragotin: and I am not? :) 20:27:27 dragotin, How can it be fun with me around? 20:27:28 henne: ;-) 20:27:38 no, but honestly, this is board duty 20:27:48 why? this is the project meeting 20:28:20 maybe at the end of each meeting we can find a volunteer for next meeting 20:28:28 this meeting is productive because we have iron henne doing it 20:28:35 henne: ? 20:28:40 because we'll have to deal with irregularities anyway (vacations, etc.) 20:28:46 Sorry but I'm against that. This is just another attempt to dilute the existence of the board. 20:28:48 if you robin it around, it will get confusing, I bet 20:28:55 terrorpup: i was saying you shold be in the round robin group managing this meeting 20:29:13 the robin round should be with a fixed group of people. Not "hey anyone volunteering for next meeting?" 20:29:26 ok, I don't mind . 20:29:28 yeah I don't think this will work either 20:29:33 henne: I see that you don'T want to do it all the time (which is sad) but let the board be responsible 20:29:58 +1 dragotin We have the powers to op the channel and run bugbot. Keep it simple 20:30:03 dragotin: stop trying to weasel out! :P 20:30:13 henne: it's just that we all love you for managing the meeting and I fear it would be uncomparable less organized otherwise 20:30:21 There's six of us, easy to round robin it. 20:30:24 rhorstkoetter: ah nonsense 20:30:26 * bear454 LOLs 20:30:42 henne: he's soooo true 20:30:46 * dragotin hugs henne 20:30:46 rhorstkoetter: really. i'm not doing anything. just sticking to the script 20:30:47 henne: that's my VERY honest opinion 20:30:54 * mrdocs can find his BOFH hat for meetings 20:31:00 I mean, we've stepped in before to run board meetings when henne isn't around. I've done it once or twice 20:31:03 .o0( now it becomes romantic slowly ) 20:31:07 rhorstkoetter: thank you 20:31:16 I'm not kidding, i.e. this isn't sarcastic in any sense 20:31:28 rhorstkoetter: i didnt take it as that 20:31:29 no henne is the master of this 20:31:39 yeah but henne wants to share 20:31:42 dragotin: :) 20:31:44 yes, we all agree on that, but we should not burn him 20:31:56 henne: that is a valid request 20:32:00 well, let me know if you need my help, I don't mind 20:32:01 within the board 20:32:01 okay then we round robin inside the board 20:32:06 can we agree on that? 20:32:10 +1 20:32:18 yes, let's start with that 20:32:20 +1 20:32:34 either way +1 20:32:47 alright 20:32:50 which becomes a null vote :-) 20:32:51 while I understand henne's request I'm against it due to reasons outlined 20:32:55 but we have to deal with irregularities 20:33:08 you know, alan there, rupert there, we have to make sure that meeting will happen 20:33:32 then the next one is pavol 20:33:35 so how do we get ACK from the person that should do the next meeting? 20:33:44 prusnak, as henne pointed out, the meeting is pretty well scripted, and its no super feat to step up if the assigned person can't show up 20:33:55 you see ... difficulties arise 20:33:59 should I NAK/ACK now or sent an email a day before that I cannot attend? 20:34:00 In fact I had in my mind that if henne and alan didn't both show up today I was oging to step up at the last moment 20:34:15 it's not like we have a problem filling in the spot. Henne just wants to make sure he's not the default all the time. 20:34:44 suseROCKs: but henne is the default for a good reason 20:34:47 isn't he? 20:35:01 yeah but henne doesn't want to be the default anymore :) 20:35:07 henne: sorry, I respect your request but I feel it a bad approach 20:35:09 ive asked him 20:35:16 rhorstkoetter, yes because we got lazy and just let him do it. And he diliegently did so, kudos to him. But he deserves to not have that expectation all the time 20:35:26 as if one thing works within this meeting it's henne's lead 20:35:43 rhorstkoetter, Are you saying the meetings that henne wasn't present were bad meetings? 20:35:52 okay, i'll do the next meeting 20:36:05 prusnak: good 20:36:05 can we please give it a try? 20:36:14 henne: certainly 20:36:23 if prusnak cannot do it, i will 20:36:27 rhorstkoetter: if its too bad, ill make a scene. you know me ;) 20:36:30 henne, Nothing to try, imo. We already do so unofficially. Now we make it official :-) 20:36:37 henne: I know 20:36:40 okay 20:36:51 next ? 20:37:02 then by the power invested in me by the alphabet: pavol runs the next meeting 20:37:14 +1 20:37:18 "vested" not "invested" 20:37:30 suseROCKs: too pedantic 20:37:32 is that a board vote or a project vote? 20:37:33 :P 20:37:33 #info we agreed that we round robin the meeting lead by alphabet 20:37:43 #undo 20:37:43 Removing item from minutes: 20:38:07 #info we agreed that we round robin the meeting lead among the board members by alphabet. next meeting is pavol 20:38:10 henne: for the sake of the other board meetings ... may you provide a cheat sheet for scripts during the meeting? 20:38:12 question.... what alphabet is that? 20:38:18 #topic Where do we need to improve? 20:38:18 and after a round let the audience vote :) *SCNR* 20:38:21 s/meetings/members 20:38:28 rhorstkoetter, Seriously? 20:38:33 The agenda isn't a script? 20:38:34 rhorstkoetter: will do on board@ 20:38:52 well I got excite that I could help 20:39:03 suseROCKs: yes, seriously .. do not underestimate what henne does as meeting lead 20:39:19 topic guys 20:39:19 * mrdocs does not 20:39:26 where do we fail? 20:39:28 you'll remember my vote against round robin in time ;) 20:39:29 This topic is about quick, small, actionable problems we have. Stuff we can solve between this and the next meeting. Everybody can add ideas to openFATE 20:39:47 is membership cloaks and emails sorted ? 20:39:55 Dominian, Are you here? 20:40:31 what people added you can see here: http://bit.ly/opensuse_improve 20:41:02 #info there are no new things on openfate 20:41:22 http://identi.ca/group/GNOME 3 Officially Released... http://bit.ly/gTKSMU 20:41:25 and many of them don't apply to our topic 20:41:49 #action henne send vuntz a diff to the reminder mail text that includes instructions how to participate in this section 20:41:51 terrorpup, You're not saying that needs to be fixed, are you? :-) 20:42:12 i'll add https://features.opensuse.org/310880 20:42:40 we need to find a way to publically welcome new members 20:43:02 even if a news.o.o item listing the new folks 20:43:07 mrdocs: no just that it been release 20:43:15 mrdocs, We're supposed to publish it in OWN. But, I don't know if there's any activity in the membership team right now for any new batches 20:43:32 ok 20:43:50 speaking of which, prusnak. Anything going on over at membership team? It's been pretty quiet 20:43:54 but IMO we should make this more visible somehow 20:43:57 so what can we do about that? 20:44:07 are there no applications? or as the team gone into hibernation? 20:44:28 henne: first thing is knowing who has beed approved 20:44:43 mrdocs, I guess we can also do an announcement on -project: Please welcome the following new members. In addition to news.o.o announcement 20:44:55 suseROCKs: at minimum 20:45:14 mrdocs, and that's the issue here. If we don't know whether there are any approvals happening lately, then the discussion of announcing them is moot. 20:45:20 yes, i have to look at membership approval process again 20:46:23 okay sounds like 3 AIS 20:46:26 plus as a wish list, I would love that the board could send a mail to members.o.o that all members receive 20:46:36 To me, the more important issue is to look at if there's any possible way to expedite the cloak/alias process. Because frankly, seeing those "Where's my..." in admin@ is getting annoying 20:46:39 1. suseROCKs/mrdocs comes up with a text for the announcement 20:46:59 2. prusnak make sure the process still works 20:47:07 3. henne automate this 20:47:10 henne: 1. is having the list of new members 20:47:28 er 20:47:29 mrdocs: look at 3 :) 20:47:52 henne: 0. is having the list of new members+ their contributions/participation 20:47:56 mrdocs: connect has a nice API and I already have some tooling on my plate for it 20:48:04 henne: good 20:48:06 * rhorstkoetter just out of curiousity ... is this the longest board meeting ever happened? just for the record 20:48:22 mrdocs, you're saying you want the announcement to give an explanation of each member's reason for acceptance/contributions? 20:48:27 rhorstkoetter: the microsoft meeting was longer i think ;) 20:48:40 suseROCKs: what i want to say is: 20:48:40 mrdocs, if that's your idea, I'm against it. It's tooooo time consuming 20:48:46 henne: that may be the case ;) 20:49:00 suseROCKs: no, just some general text on top 20:49:08 suseROCKs: the rest i can tool i think 20:49:16 suseROCKs: no... you can never thank you enough to people who contribute 20:49:18 henne, I agree that's what I'm saying 20:49:37 rhorstkoetter, All meetings of the board since the beginning of time has been set for 2 hours. We're still 11 minutes from that mark. 20:49:38 i can also do 1. i think 20:49:54 suseROCKs: I am here now. 20:49:57 suseROCKs: we're 49 minutes over 20:50:00 sorry.. lots going on.. 20:50:11 suseROCKs: we actually are 49 minutes overtime 20:50:11 henne: i will gladly help with 1 20:50:12 henne, what are you talking about?? 20:50:18 you started the meeting an hour earlier than I got here? 20:50:30 oops i mean rhorstkoetter ^^ 20:50:40 Since when have our meetings been 1 hour set? 20:50:53 the meeting started 8pm CET, now it's 10:50pm CET 20:51:08 umm 20:51:13 no it didn't 20:51:17 suseROCKs: you were there when the meeting started at 18:00 UTC 20:51:21 hence the meeting started at 18 UTC and now its 10m to 22:00 UTC ;) 20:51:28 point is we should recognize as publically as we can all the people who are contributors.. aka as henne says" people who get shit done" :) 20:51:29 yes which is 1:50 hour ago 20:51:32 that's 2 hours 50 if my maths are correct 20:51:33 please stop doing drugs, or do more :-) 20:51:43 rhorstkoetter, Remind me not to depend on you for your maths :-) 20:52:00 ok but let's close up anyway 20:52:21 #action prusnak make sure that the membership process works 20:52:38 suseROCKs: save it till next meeting then? hehe 20:52:44 Dominian, how about you send your discussion to the project ML and show your work so far? I think its worth something the project as a whole should look at 20:52:52 #action henne script a "we welcome new member" mail with connect 20:52:54 Sure. 20:53:03 suseROCKs: I'll write something up and try to get it mailed out within the next few days. 20:53:13 suseROCKs: while this really isn't important ... the current meeting lasts for 2 hours 53 minutes 20:53:14 #action mrdocs help henne with texting 20:53:17 Dominian, Cool 20:53:19 okay next topic 20:53:30 texting :-) 20:53:33 thus I'm not entirely sure what's going on with your math skills ;) 20:53:55 #info We want to have a "We welcome new members" mail. We're going to try to script this out of connect 20:54:05 #topic Question and Answers 20:54:19 * mrdocs has a mini report 20:54:30 she threw up while you juggled her? 20:54:45 suseROCKs: no no such drame 20:54:48 drama 20:54:51 #info there where no questions on the wiki 20:55:09 mrdocs: shoot 20:55:36 just as a follow-up I have pinged the Attachmate folks for a webinar... waiting for reply 20:55:52 that's all :) 20:56:08 hasn't everything changed by now? 20:56:18 i mean this was a timing issue right? 20:56:28 and tons of time went by... 20:56:29 henne: not even your socks have changed 20:57:01 mrdocs, what we're not seeing is even the items you'll be using in the webinar. Has this been prepped yet? 20:57:07 bear454: there it is! the point where it would get bad! 20:57:24 I notice youpinged miller to do it around the 15th... which gives us on the board less than a week to give feedback on the material to you 20:57:29 mrdocs: can't we just ship you there now? asap? :) 20:57:33 henne: just be glad you switched to socks ;) 20:58:03 henne, shipping won't work. Attachmate has too many locations to cover in the US and worldwide. 20:58:08 henne: if end up with a may date it might work :) 20:58:13 suseROCKs: then we pick one 20:58:21 However, i will be paying Miller a courtesy visit in a few weeks when I go there 20:58:29 bear454: extraordinary socks fetish? 20:58:35 * rhorstkoetter just wondering 20:58:42 mrdocs: can you push for that? 20:58:44 mrdocs, I'm not sure if you understand the urgency here... This *must* be done before the merger is completed 20:58:56 mrdocs: I can see if i can get some money out of someone 20:58:59 suseROCKs: i suggested next week 20:59:04 That was the whole reason we were rushing to see it happen in February before the presumed official merger was to take place first week of March 20:59:15 we're only lucky that the merger didn't happen yet 20:59:15 suseROCKs: it would be best 20:59:35 suseROCKs: not must 20:59:38 what is it needs done? 20:59:52 no its a must do before June 21:00:02 before June? 21:00:13 bear454: presentation about openSUSE to Attachmate 21:00:16 ah the beergarden season. youre right ;) 21:00:21 henne, according to alan and Mller, once the merger is completed, everyone will be so busy with go that it will be ages before we can get our heads in to give presentation 21:00:35 Bellingham office is an openSUSE haven 21:00:36 so yes now is a must to get them to ingrain openSUSE in their heads right from the start 21:00:39 so the time is now 21:00:51 suseROCKs: we're still first. and neither novell nor attachmate can plan as far as i understood 21:01:13 suseROCKs: so if we set a date for may now we're still first :) 21:01:24 Michael Miller's been doing a standup job promoting openSUSE internally 21:01:29 henne, but their priorities change once the merger is approved 21:01:38 suseROCKs: if its done it done 21:01:40 but okay 21:01:40 and the merger can be approved any day now. We're all just waiting for SEC to give its blessing. 21:01:42 henne suseROCKs middle of may is feasible to do in person in WA 21:02:01 mrdocs: please see what Michael says to this 21:02:04 guys you're not listening... 21:02:15 suseROCKs: can you please let us try? 21:02:20 According to Michael and Alan, after the merger is completed, it is not feasible to expect to be able to get time in line 21:02:40 even if we set a date now. Those plans will get changed because of things they need to do to implement the merger that will be timeconsuming for many months 21:02:49 suseROCKs: can you please let us try? 21:02:55 So we need the webinar going THIS month, not later. Because SEC can approve any day now. 21:03:01 suseROCKs: realistically the merger will not complete before June 21:03:10 the webinar can happen this month 21:03:15 yes 21:03:16 and mrdocs goes there in may 21:03:25 suseROCKs: is here in April 21:03:31 mrdocs, even my personal appointment with michael is unsure. He literally has his bags pre-packed right now ready to take off on a plane as soon as the merger is approved. 21:03:32 i have offered to do a remote in April 21:03:47 mrdocs, do it! 21:04:02 but even before then, do we even have the materials ready for the webinar? 21:04:03 suseROCKs: im waiting on Alan and Michale 21:04:10 i have started 21:04:20 ill add it to a webpad this weekend 21:04:34 well I keep hearing the opposite from them that they've been waiting for you 21:04:52 suseROCKs: i proposed 11-15 April 21:04:53 so somewhere here there is obviously a breakdown 21:05:01 and waited for a reply 21:05:02 so 21:05:07 waiting for godot 21:05:18 Anything I can do to help, as I'm local, please let me know 21:05:21 simply need to re-ping everyone 21:05:33 mrdocs: can you try to call michael tomorrow and get this sorted? 21:05:33 bear454: yes welcome and appreciated 21:05:49 henne: yes i have desk time to do that 21:05:58 mrdocs: that would be awesome 21:06:01 or Friday. I think Michael is on the road until Friday 21:06:49 henne: i will do my best in the next 48 hours... i completely know how important it is 21:06:51 mrdocs: please also ask if its possible to visit the engineers in may 21:06:52 ok anything else? 21:07:03 henne: noted... 21:07:12 mrdocs: that would be even more awesome... 21:07:13 an important audience 21:07:21 well a pool of newbies :) 21:07:27 * bear454 plans on next years openSUSE Conference in Seattle :D 21:07:27 lol 21:07:28 henne, michael already indicated in email to the board a while ago that a personal visit isn't possible if funds are required 21:07:53 suseROCKs: i can do it once I am based in the US 21:08:08 with the help of bear454 21:08:14 * mrdocs takes a bullet for openSUSE in the wallet :) 21:08:37 their 3 big offices are Seattle (HQ), Houston, TX (NetIQ), and Bellingham, WA 21:08:40 mrdocs: i can also try to get you some funding 21:08:42 well in any case, I'm scheduled to meet Michael at the end of April, tentatively. But not going to do the presentation. leaving that to mrdocs as its his task 21:08:44 which really is not a problem at all, for something important 21:09:06 * henne knows all the hidden accounts 21:09:08 henne: short money for airplanes 21:09:11 heh 21:09:23 the misc account :) 21:09:24 suseROCKs: we already know michael 21:09:35 yeah and? 21:09:46 i'm way more interested in having someone speak to the egnineers 21:09:47 ok so 21:09:52 but thats sorted now 21:10:01 henne, and that's what I said... I'm not doing an onsite presentation 21:10:07 ok 21:10:12 just a courtesy visit with Michael and anyone else he drags me around to shake hands with 21:10:24 #info mrdocs to follow up with Attachmate and have webinar ready for next week 21:10:44 henne: ok with that ? 21:11:16 #action mrdocs talk to michael and get the webinar appointment straightened out and also see if there is a date in may where mrdocs/bear454+socks could visit the engineers 21:11:28 heh 21:11:44 bear454: where are your socks ? :) 21:11:47 okay cool 21:11:59 Okay that's it then. If you have more, don't hesitate to bring it up on the appropriate mailinglist. 21:12:16 #info The next project meeting will be in two weeks. Same channel (#opensuse-project), same time (18:00 UTC). 21:12:20 Thank you all for participating. Good night and good luck! 21:12:26 * mrdocs high fives henne for another good meeting 21:12:30 #endmeeting