19:00:51 #startmeeting 19:00:51 Meeting started Wed Mar 9 19:00:51 2011 UTC. The chair is henne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:51 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:59 #meetingtopic openSUSE Project Meeting 19:01:06 Welcome to the openSUSE Project Meeting! 19:01:13 This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. 19:01:20 The topics for this meeting are: 19:01:40 1. Old Action Items (30 minutes) 19:02:32 # 19:02:32 2. 19:02:32 # Status Reports (15 minutes) 19:02:32 # Where do we need to improve? For ideas see openFATE (15 minutes) 19:02:38 # Keys to Social APIs 19:02:49 5. openSUSE Domain names 19:02:59 6. Questions & Answers (30 minutes) 19:03:16 let's roll! 19:03:22 #topic Old Action Items 19:03:42 first project AI's. you can find them here: http://bit.ly/opensuse_action_items 19:04:09 Bug #659659 19:04:09 openSUSE bug 659659 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Top feature list for 11.4" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/659659 19:04:15 jospoortvliet: that on is done right? 19:05:19 * henne rattles jospoortvliets cage 19:05:41 well there is a huge document on http://en.opensuse.org/Product_highlights 19:05:45 i take it this is it 19:06:27 Is it finished? 19:06:49 I know they've been running around adding and updating 19:06:56 yeah this is mostly done 19:07:19 manugupt1: right? 19:07:29 Bug #676693 19:07:29 openSUSE bug 676693 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce GNOME 3 promo DVD/CD iso" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676693 19:07:46 Bug #676695 19:07:46 openSUSE bug 676695 in openSUSE.org (Action Items) "Produce KDE promo DVD/CD iso" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/676695 19:07:50 henne, yes mostly done 19:07:58 and the two sleeve bugs that are attached to those 19:08:16 i guess we won't get a status update now beause vuntz and _wstephenson are not there 19:08:30 vuntz is on vacation and _wstephenson is at kde.in 19:08:56 so thats it for project AI's then 19:09:30 next sub-topic is board AI's. you can find them here: http://bit.ly/opensuse_board_ais 19:09:50 Bug #670594 19:09:50 openSUSE bug 670594 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Write an announcement about the new process of creating the foundation." [Critical,Assigned] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670594 19:10:10 AlanClark: you wanted to come up with a proposal for this 19:10:15 whats the status? 19:10:16 I've written a draft and placed it on the portal:foundation wiki 19:10:26 it's ready for review 19:11:06 http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Foundation_Invitation_To_Contribute 19:11:10 it is 19:11:26 you paste faster than i ;-) 19:11:34 and I 19:11:49 henne: beat me for 2 secs 19:11:58 let's have it up for review for 1 week ( best not to conflict with 11.4) 19:12:03 i actually read the bugzilla entries ;) 19:12:14 AlanClark: review for whom? 19:13:07 at a minimum the board members and those that subscibe to the foundation@ mailing list 19:13:10 so far only very few people know about it 19:13:21 ah did you send it there` 19:13:23 ? 19:13:50 not yet - I felt that it would be a distraction today 19:14:25 don't worry, email is very unintrusive :) 19:14:38 anyway. this is a step further then. very well 19:14:57 Bug #670589 19:14:57 openSUSE bug 670589 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Review the openSUSE Strategy Document" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670589 19:15:20 is mrdocs here? 19:15:21 AlanClark: how far did you come here? 19:15:32 AlanClark: he excused himself from the meeting :-/ 19:15:49 I've reviewed it, but mrdocs hasn't. 19:16:25 we either need to assign this to him or vote to release with just my small changes 19:16:35 depending upon time criticallity 19:16:43 well 19:16:50 we're doing the release without it now... 19:17:05 I'd prefer that mrdocs have his look, but not sure how soon he will be able to get to it 19:17:08 i would say we still have thise and next week left 19:17:15 this* 19:17:23 then let's assign this AI to him 19:17:23 but then it should be out 19:17:25 okay 19:17:31 so that he knows it's on his plate 19:18:27 re-assigned 19:18:41 Bug #670739 19:18:41 openSUSE bug 670739 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Setup a meeting to discuss communication with open-slx" [Critical,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670739 19:19:06 we have talked to the Novell people 19:19:21 and now can work on the actual meeting 19:19:28 AlanClark are you any further? 19:20:03 open-slx ask that discussion be after their 11.4 release - March 18 19:20:27 yeah way better 19:20:28 is a time frame Stefan gave me 19:20:53 so put this AI on hold till after that date 19:20:55 so whats your proposal for a date? 19:21:57 the week right after or the last week of march? 19:21:59 good question - let me follow up with Stefan to set up a specific date 19:22:08 okay fair enough 19:22:27 guess that makes the AI mine ;-) 19:22:48 Bug #670797 19:22:48 openSUSE bug 670797 in openSUSE.org (Board) "Merge the board and the project meeting" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670797 19:23:08 this is obviously done 19:24:11 which leaves Bug #670590 19:24:11 openSUSE bug 670590 in openSUSE.org (Board) "user search for bugzilla" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.novell.com/670590 19:24:21 i still didnt came around to do this 19:24:39 i have to move it another meeting. sorry :-/ 19:25:35 thats it for old action items then 19:25:43 henne: isn't that a problem because you need email-addresses when you want to assign a bug? 19:25:50 I thought this was something that was going to take some time so wan't expecting it very soon 19:26:45 #info we resolved 3 old action items and talked about a couple of others. A lot of AIs are postponed because of the 11.4 release which is more important at the moment. 19:27:02 bmwiedemann: read the AI. it has info linked 19:27:08 next topic? 19:27:11 yes 19:27:31 yes 19:27:32 #topic Status Reports 19:27:34 Teams and individuals send various status reports around. 19:27:39 Coolo sends one for the distribution, the OBS team publishes meeting minutes, the boosters their "What are the boosters up to" blogposts for instance. 19:27:45 Are there any questions regarding those or do we need to discuss anything in detail? 19:28:07 Or does anyone wants to give a live status report of something? :) 19:28:49 I can give you a small update for the boosters 19:29:00 as i probably wont come around blogging for the next 2 weeks 19:29:17 we have nearly finished our connect milestone 19:29:40 which means we have put in a lot of work into connect.opensuse.org to make it useable 19:29:57 and to have some useful features on top of the user/group management 19:30:30 so we are going to announce connect next week with the hope of riding on the 11.4 wave a bit :) 19:30:36 hrm.. connect is the new 'member' social site or something iirc? 19:30:50 yes. http://connect.opensuse.org 19:31:00 Yeah I think I've already gotten my account on there.... yes.. I'm on there already 19:31:24 also just today was the arrival of a new booster 19:31:41 finally :-) 19:31:45 his name is Ismail Dönmez 19:32:00 hehe connect.o.o says I have a freenode opensuse member cloak lol 19:32:02 yay! 19:32:04 anyway 19:32:04 :) 19:32:06 he comes over to us from from pardus 19:32:11 henne: oh cool 19:32:38 expect to see more of him :) 19:32:49 aka "cartman" 19:32:50 welcome Dönmez 19:33:13 oh I forgot 19:33:30 the next milestone we will work on is "Increasing Factory Contributions" 19:33:51 we will have a kick-off meeting next week where we will brainstorm how to do that 19:33:57 henne, by the way boosters have forgotten add cartman to the list 19:34:01 there are already a couple of ideas floating around 19:34:28 manugupt1: you mean on the team page? yeah we'll do that 19:34:35 okay thats it from the boosters 19:34:52 anything else we need to discuss? any other live reports? 19:35:23 just a question on GSOC 19:35:49 shoot :) 19:35:55 AlanClark, ask 19:36:50 is there something that needs to be done at the moment, or is it a wait to hear from google? 19:37:03 AlanClark, atm wait from google 19:37:27 If we get accepted we need a panel to choose the best available projects from the slots and then gather mentors for it 19:37:27 ok. by the way thanks to you and vuntz! 19:37:59 That is how other organisations are doing it specially gnome 19:38:06 AlanClark: there might be a possible need for your management kung-fu as soon as it comes to billing... 19:38:33 I can help with that. have you decided how you will create the panel? 19:38:40 AlanClark: but lets cross that bridge when we get there 19:38:52 sounds good 19:39:10 henne, I dont think that will be an issue as of now as vuntz as already filled up on the form stating money will be with google or go to other organisation 19:39:23 ah okay 19:39:42 okay next topic` 19:39:43 ? 19:39:51 yes 19:40:45 * rtyler perks up his ears 19:41:05 rtyler: You sleeping again? 19:41:06 #info henne gave a live report about the current state of the opensuse boosters. the have finished the http://connect.opensuse.org milestone, hired a new booster and are starting a new milestone about how to improve factory contributions next week 19:41:25 AlanClark: henne: manugupt1: on that panel, best is to let mentors choose, put results in spreadsheet and let vuntz & prusnak make last executive decisions... but yes, it is for the future 19:41:41 #info manugupt1 reported that for GSOC its "wait for google" at the moment 19:41:46 henne: http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:11.4 done?!? one image has to change otherwise ready for review sorry for OT 19:42:04 jospoortvliet: we're in the middle of the project meeting 19:42:16 #topic Where do we need to improve? 19:42:41 For ideas see about what we could do see http://bit.ly/opensuse_improve 19:42:50 sorry! 19:43:20 henne: Is that just with the distribution or does that include management over memberships etc as well? 19:43:41 jospoortvliet: i still love you. no worries. keep going honey 19:43:58 * jospoortvliet is happy again 19:44:01 This topic is about quick, small, actionable problems we have 19:44:03 Dominian: anything 19:44:09 Dominian: but as henne said :D 19:44:11 and we can solve between this and the next meeting 19:44:16 ah 19:44:18 nevermind then. 19:45:30 I don't see anything in openFATE 19:45:39 any other ideas? :) 19:47:01 okay then I declare us bugfree as of now! 19:47:12 dont change anything. we're perfect 19:47:19 :) 19:47:22 IMO https://features.opensuse.org/310880 is a very valid request but isn't solvable between two meetings 19:47:22 * henne rides into the sunset 19:47:56 we may split this into sub-topics, review it and think about (at least) subsets to implement 19:48:12 what do you think? 19:48:26 rhorstkoetter: I have to admit, that link goes somewhat along what I was going to bring up 19:48:32 we do need to make this more 'actionable' 19:49:01 a lot of it is already done... 19:49:05 AlanClark: that's what I actually meant. IMO there are some good ideas presented 19:49:08 rhorstkoetter: the only addition I'd make on there is "faster response to admin@o.o email or at least contact of some kind to let people know someone has seen it" 19:49:38 Dominian: like an autoresponder? 19:49:40 rhorstkoetter: Which fits in with the single point of contact point I'd say. 19:49:45 henne: WEll, no necessarily. 19:49:45 thats actionable 19:49:51 but that would work 19:50:16 I've sen ta few emails to admin@o.o with no responses.. although I did talk to darix about it and I KNOW its because of 11.4.. I'm not bitching just making a suggestion :) 19:50:28 Dominian: about what? 19:50:35 suggestion #2 is here with opensuse connect 19:50:36 darix: cloaks. 19:50:38 Dominian: please be ore specific 19:50:53 darix: We discussed it week or so ago.. been a while. 19:50:54 Dominian: we have seen it 19:50:54 suggestion #1 would be very helpful to new users/contributors 19:51:12 Right, but my point is.. why should I have to hunt down someone to find out what is going on? See my point? 19:51:16 I'm preaching the unaccessability of mailinglists for a rather long time 19:51:37 Dominian: because we're a volunteer organization 19:51:40 darix: Like I said.. not complaining, I know you guys are busy. 19:51:55 henne: again, I know this. 19:52:10 so whats your idea how to make this better? :) 19:52:15 I really don't have one. 19:52:19 okay 19:52:20 i saw pavol finishing the irc part on connect 19:52:22 other than find a way to respond to the user. 19:52:30 there is progress on connect? 19:52:31 oh 19:52:35 and i hope to find time after 11.4 is out to sync freenode and the db again 19:52:40 auto responder.. some sort of ticketing system to track the reports.. dunno 19:52:45 yeah 19:52:55 or a bugzilla queue instead of sending emails? 19:52:59 _email_ ticketing system would be cool 19:53:08 darix: Yeah, that's what you and I talked about before. But wanted to just voice the idea here.. you guys do a great job. 19:53:17 AJaeger: everyone can send an email. no one can operate bugzilla 19:53:20 henne: at least that would give the user something to reference. 19:53:32 henne: bugzilla is faster to setup ;) 19:53:42 darix: you guys have a ticketing system right? 19:53:45 otrs 19:53:48 henne: and that way the user can also see who's responded etc etc. and not have to come on irc to hunt people hehe 19:53:49 yes 19:53:51 otrs is an email ticketing system 19:53:55 henne: I'm not opposing to otrs or something like that 19:54:01 tickets@opensuse.org should be working 19:54:01 darix: but its not public or? 19:54:05 no it is not 19:54:11 hm 19:54:35 AJaeger: i think otrs or bugzilla are similar pain(free) to set up 19:54:37 henne: Well, my thought was something how osticket works.. not sure what you guys use.. email comes in.. osTicket sees it.. creates the ticket.. emails the user.. notifies admins etc etc 19:54:40 would a simple OTRS install suffice? 19:54:52 may i point out 19:54:56 Dominian: yeah a ticketing system :) 19:54:57 that as soon as pavol is done 19:55:01 henne: heh 19:55:06 henne: Some don't check meail boxes directly 19:55:16 every user who is signed up as group contact for freenode (and that doesnt only included adrian or me even atm) 19:55:17 henne: but I'm reading up on otrs now.. never heard of it 19:55:20 can do the cloaks? 19:55:28 even the membership officials 19:55:30 darix: if they are group contacts, they should be able to request them yes 19:55:35 so dont make it more complicated than needed 19:55:40 as long as they are on the GC form that was posted to freenode. 19:55:48 darix: yeah but its not only about cloaks 19:55:54 henne: what else? 19:56:02 i'm sure we miss 5% of the admin@o.o mails 19:56:21 darix: Well the cloaks are part of it.. I think its more about better communication all around to members and potential members if that makes any sense. 19:56:44 so any volunteer to setup a OTRS? 19:56:45 henne: we dont 19:56:54 henne: all mails which are not handled yet 19:57:05 are marked as important in my mail client 19:57:18 so i have a pretty good overview what is left and what is not 19:57:34 yeah but sometimes you can't do something about it 19:57:36 i only forgot to answer suserocks with upgrade.o.o 19:57:37 but i guess the idea is to get rid of single point of failure, or not? 19:57:38 like with planet additions 19:57:45 which i actually requested in februrary 19:57:53 or additions to community-opensuse.org etc etc 19:58:03 prusnak: there isnt a SOPF 19:58:10 e.g. planet is handled by pascal mainly 19:58:14 but i can do it aswell 19:58:22 which i would do if i see 3days without a response 19:58:31 but usually i just leave it to him 19:58:37 i was just reacting to "so i have a pretty good overview what is left and what is not" 19:58:57 darix okay. but then we could use a ticketing system "just" for the user features 19:59:10 henne: define user features 19:59:14 like autoresponders, reminders, resolutions etc. 19:59:16 Why would we not distribute general message across all members in a round robin system? 19:59:47 robjo1: Genereal message.. what do you mean? 20:00:20 Dominian: People looking to get involved and sending messages to admin 20:00:44 Well, the discussion is to find a way to handle that in a little different fashion I believe. 20:00:55 mainly so the user doesn't feel forgotten about type thing. 20:01:29 Dominian: how would an autoresponder help with that? 20:01:29 exactly 20:01:39 it would just tell you "some script has seen your mail" 20:01:48 again, I have no idea. 20:01:51 I brougtht he idea up 20:01:55 and instead of adding yet another tool 20:01:56 Well, the different fashion is distribute the e-mails across the membership one at a time. Don't collect them all in one place and expect one or two people to deal with it 20:02:04 lets just fix the specific issues that need work 20:02:17 i hope prusnak is done soon with the whole users to connect migration 20:02:17 okay lets try an autoresponder 20:02:21 I have no knowledge of the interworkings of o.o nor the reat of the foundation. I don't know the setup of the infrastructure nor do I Know how the rest of the communication internally interacts.. I'm just making suggestions :) 20:02:37 darix: from my POV we are done 20:02:51 and then we can finally give the membership-officials the tools to do the cloak part 20:02:51 if connect.opensuse.org is tehw ay to go for such things.. perfect 20:02:57 prusnak: i still know 1-2 features we might need :) 20:03:04 unless there are any comments and i haven't see any, yet 20:03:08 Dominian: no need to apologize for it ;) 20:03:08 we can discuss them later if you want 20:03:40 darix: will you add the autoresponder? :) 20:03:43 darix: just write me an email, please 20:03:46 or shoud I? 20:04:00 *sighs* 20:04:10 an autoresponder is not the solution 20:04:24 henne: the autoresponder was just an example. 20:04:28 the solution is to look into getting more people that feel responsible for specific tasks 20:04:34 and give them the tools to do the job 20:04:39 I don't think in the situation with admin@o.o it would probably do more harm than good 20:04:56 darix: we don't look for a world solution 20:04:58 er.. I THINK in the situation with... damn my grammar is horrid today 20:05:02 henne: me neither 20:05:11 but we seriously dont need yet another tool 20:05:25 darix: so lets improve a bit by setting up an autoresponder :) 20:05:30 *sighs* 20:05:32 well I'll offer my help if its needed of course. 20:05:35 a simple postfix rule 20:05:40 eh 20:05:44 it is like i am talking to a brickwall 20:05:45 this is not another tool 20:05:55 as you dont listen to me anyway 20:05:57 go ahead 20:05:59 its just a small improvement 20:06:25 auto responder from a ticketing system would be more appropriate.. but.. using one in postfix for every incoming email could cause backscatter.. just FYI 20:06:25 as someone who gets those funny autoresponders regularly 20:06:31 i can tell you ... they are useless 20:06:49 to you... 20:07:19 darix: does connect.o.o give the members a way of interacting with the group contacts? 20:07:23 okay.... then we don't do nothing 20:07:30 we need to finish this topic now 20:07:38 k 20:07:44 Dominian: there is a mailinglists for membership-officials 20:07:50 which handles changes to memberships if i recall correctly 20:07:58 someone correct me when i am wrong 20:08:03 really? 20:08:07 another mailing list 20:08:08 argh 20:08:10 yep 20:08:39 So IS connect.o.o going to be the end-all-be-all tool for members? 20:08:42 #info we discussed the ideas on openFATE a bit and cleaned the queue. We then started to think about how we can improve admin@opensuse.org email handling a bit but couldnt agree on a solution. 20:08:51 next topic people 20:09:00 Dominian: yes 20:09:04 darix: ok 20:09:08 sorry, if I may 20:09:10 henne: just one second 20:09:15 sorry to be late to chip into the topic 20:09:20 but as one of the recipients of the list.. 20:09:27 there is just one thing that I find highly confusing 20:09:38 it's the fact that replies to mails on admin@o.o are not CC'd to the list 20:09:48 I know that would create some more junk to ignore for whom is not concerned 20:09:58 but OTOH you never know when an email remains unresponded for weeks 20:10:14 darix: don't you think that would help a bit ? 20:10:24 yaloki: that's a good point 20:10:35 apart from that, I don't think there is any point in making an autoresponder or anything else 20:10:45 there is usually only one or two people who handle each domain 20:10:50 yaloki: i CC the list on each response 20:10:52 if neither of them is reading the mail, well, tough luck 20:10:59 so if you dont see a response that is an open issue 20:11:00 okay but CC'ing the list is not something actionable 20:11:01 darix: me too, but most don't, at least from my impression 20:11:05 because it has no end :) 20:11:10 yaloki: we need to fix that then 20:11:21 okay 20:11:26 so can we continue to the next topic please` 20:11:27 ? 20:11:27 sorry for appending to that topic ;) 20:11:38 youre excused ;) 20:11:52 #topic Keys to Social APIs 20:12:03 Who should generate them (question raised by FunkyPenguin). Someone needs to be responsible for any misuse, updates, changes etc as required by the service. AJ has volunteered, The proposed recommendation is that AJ be the "Keymaster" for these keys. 20:12:52 From the email exhanged on this topic, 20:13:06 I think that most questions were answered 20:13:19 just do it[tm] 20:13:36 but need to designate a person to be the keeper of the keys 20:13:42 AJaeger? 20:13:51 yes 20:13:52 AJaeger has volunteered 20:14:06 so I thought we should make him official :-) 20:14:34 * henne stamps AJaeger as official 20:14:41 next topic? :) 20:14:43 ;) 20:14:56 +1 20:15:50 next topic 20:15:51 #agreed AJaeger will from now on collect the social API keys and act as keymaster. 20:16:05 #topic openSUSE Domain names 20:16:15 Requests from community members for approval for use of the openSUSE trademark within their domain names. Need to reflect the policy in the trademark guidelines 20:16:38 AlanClark: you wanted to say a few more word about this 20:16:52 From last meetings discussion I took the AI to return with a "tighter" proposal. 20:17:19 I would like to move this to email as I'm not ready today to discuss this. 20:17:40 I asked Novell legal for some help on the language, but am awaiting a response 20:17:55 email where? so people know where to look :) 20:18:11 board@o.o? 20:18:49 yes board@o.o 20:19:21 for the specific domain approvals. 20:19:55 Having reviewed the trademark guidelines I don't think they need to change 20:20:04 okay 20:20:24 so this topic is moved to the board mailinglist now 20:21:01 #info this topic is moved to the board mailinglist now 20:21:07 next topic` 20:21:09 ? 20:21:42 #topic Questions & Answers 20:21:56 there are no general questions or additional topics on the wiki 20:22:09 are you guys having any? :) 20:22:20 henne: what is the time of the release? 20:22:23 regarding http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Foundation_Invitation_To_Contribute : I find the "Why" rather vague 20:22:27 in utc or CET or whatever? :D 20:22:33 jospoortvliet: 12:00 UTC 20:22:43 AJaeger: sjeees that is way too early... 20:22:47 meh 20:22:49 ok 20:22:50