14:33:27 <AJaeger> #startmeeting Welcome to the openFATE screening Team meeting 14:33:27 <bugbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 25 14:33:27 2010 UTC. The chair is AJaeger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:33:27 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:33:42 <AJaeger> I'm very sorry that I'm 30mins late on this one ;-( 14:33:53 <AJaeger> I have written as agenda items: 14:34:00 <AJaeger> 1. How to handle openSUSE distribution (see Stano's email)? 14:34:01 <AJaeger> 2. How to handle openSUSE 11.4? 14:34:14 <AJaeger> 3. Using openFATE - questions on workflow and usage 14:34:23 <AJaeger> 4. Q&A 14:34:38 <AJaeger> Anything else to add to the agenda right now? 14:35:05 <AJaeger> #topic How to handle openSUSE distribution? 14:35:58 <AJaeger> So, should we use the Bucket idea and as such enhance openFATE that you can only create features with the generic bucket - and we then later mvoe them to e.g. openSUSE 11.4? 14:36:20 <AJaeger> Stano could you explain briefly the Bucket idea? 14:37:02 <Stano> The whole idea is to avoid 'postponing' features and better follow the real development model 14:37:24 * AJaeger is also tired of cleaning up 11.3 features now ;) 14:37:37 <Stano> This is how I see a feature lifecycle in high-level: 14:38:21 <Stano> 1) someone has a great idea - typically 2-3 sentences 14:38:40 <HeliosReds> I also think Bucket is a good idea. 14:38:59 <Stano> 2) the idea needs to be clarified, looked at from different perspectives, etc 14:39:18 <AJaeger> digitltom: can we implement in openFATE such that people request for "openSUSE distribution" and cannot add 11.4 directly? 14:39:58 <Stano> 3) it's almost clear what is needed to be done, only then we can work on the feature (in openSUSE, this is more importantnly integration) 14:40:39 <Stano> only in step 3) we can reasonably figure out which openSUSE release can have the idea implemented 14:40:43 <digitltom> AJaeger: we can do this, but who should be able to add 11.4 and with which client? 14:41:10 <AJaeger> digitltom: Add it with openFATE in a second step? 14:41:17 <Stano> digitltom: ideally, only status Ready/Marketplace, Implementation and Done can have openSUSE 11.4 14:42:52 <HeliosReds> And there may be deadline for each release. 14:43:03 <digitltom> should be possible 14:43:12 <digitltom> deadlines are already there 14:45:16 <AJaeger> So, consensus? Then let's ask digitltom to drive implementation... 14:45:39 <Stano> yes from my side :-) 14:45:48 <HeliosReds> If the feature is just a minor enhancement, it can be for 11.4, but if it's somehow 'big', it should be for 11.5 (or 12.0?) 14:46:14 <AJaeger> HeliosReds: YEs, depending on the time we evaluate it ;) 14:48:23 <AJaeger> #action digitltom to implement product "openSUSE distribution" bucket for new features so that we do not have to postpone every feature 14:48:35 <AJaeger> ok, next topic: 14:48:40 <AJaeger> #topic How to handle openSUSE 11.4? 14:49:10 <AJaeger> WE have 200+ unconfirmed features in openSUSE 11.4 and I would like to figure out the "good" ones asap. 14:50:09 <Stano> AJaeger: well, we have to get our hands dirty 14:50:31 <AJaeger> My idea would be that we all go through them and get our hands dirty and - either postpone (put them into the bucket) or move them forward. 14:52:00 <Stano> AJaeger: can you remind me how much time we have left for features in 11.4? 14:52:49 * AJaeger just checks http://www.suse.de/~coolo/opensuse_11.4/ 14:53:00 <digitltom> AJaeger: the product database has no feature deadline yet, i need to set this 14:53:45 <AJaeger> Milestone5 is on 16th December and "feature complete" - so basically, we're already too late ;-( 14:55:46 <AJaeger> So, that's 3 weeks of development from now on since checkin deadline for M5 is the 13th. 14:58:59 <digitltom> AJaeger: ok, i've set the feature deadline 15:00:00 <AJaeger> So, what should we do with features? 15:00:12 <AJaeger> Cleanup the list and add the generic bucket? 15:00:19 <Stano> yes, when it's ready 15:01:09 <AJaeger> There only a few we can really move forward - my proposal would be to start now the stuff for 11.5? 15:01:22 <Stano> yes, that's the only sane thing to do 15:01:43 <AJaeger> BUT: I plan to go through the complete list and cherry pick a handful that I push through for 11.4 - and if you have a handfull, add them as well.. 15:02:24 <AJaeger> ok? 15:02:59 <HeliosReds> IMHO, we should review high-scored features first. 15:03:11 * Spyhawk just realized that he's one hour late :] 15:03:22 <AJaeger> Welcome Spyhawk! WE started 30mins late ;) 15:03:26 <Stano> AJaeger: definitely 15:03:32 <AJaeger> Spyhawk: so, you're only 30mins late.. 15:03:36 <Spyhawk> so I'm only helf late :] 15:04:07 <AJaeger> HeliosReds: Yes, high-scored is something... 15:04:32 <AJaeger> ... to look at 15:04:56 <AJaeger> digitltom: Can I search for features with say more than 20 scores? 15:05:14 <HeliosReds> https://features.opensuse.org/preview/query/run?order=score&search_products[]=22236&type=find 15:05:20 <digitltom> AJaeger: you can search for 11.4 and order by votes 15:05:22 <AJaeger> HeliosReds: Thanks! 15:05:37 <HeliosReds> Then click Score. 15:05:48 <AJaeger> Ok, so, I propose: 15:06:12 <AJaeger> We all try to push the features with a score higher than 20 forward for 11.4. 15:06:44 <AJaeger> We go briefly through others and check for features to move forward (each of us only a few) for 11.4 15:06:50 <AJaeger> We move everythign else to the bucket 15:07:12 <AJaeger> We find experts that handle the features in the state new 15:07:37 <AJaeger> and have them evaluate and push to "Marketplace" - and we tell people about those features... 15:08:03 <simon123> https://features.opensuse.org/preview/310229 15:08:10 <AJaeger> Sound like a plan? 15:08:14 <simon123> that is below your radar 15:08:25 <Spyhawk> yup, souds good 15:08:34 <Spyhawk> simon123: I guess we also need to use common sense 15:08:47 <Spyhawk> or quickly find two people to vote for the feature :] 15:08:50 <AJaeger> simon123: As I've said "Go briefly through others" 15:08:55 <simon123> ok 15:09:17 <AJaeger> simon123: So, if you think that feature should be in 11.4, move it forward - just do so ;) 15:09:39 <AJaeger> simon123: But for those under the radar: Select only a handful ;) 15:10:14 <simon123> where that can be published (after the meeting) 15:10:47 <AJaeger> simon123: What do you mean? 15:11:13 <AJaeger> Anybody wants to send out a call for "domain experts" to the other teams? 15:13:08 <AJaeger> OK, then I'll do that. 15:13:21 <AJaeger> #action AJaeger to send out a call for "domain experts" to evaluate features 15:13:41 <Stano> AJaeger: how do we find out the domains? 15:13:58 <HeliosReds> For example, who can be the "domain experts" for https://features.opensuse.org/preview/310229 ? 15:14:14 <simon123> AJaeger: feature 310299 is already 11.4 , but I have strong feeling that NTFS mount must be trivial task (at least) so how to give you a note, or list of features that might be overlooked and are important 15:14:29 <AJaeger> Stano: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening_process#Tags 15:14:49 <AJaeger> So, we add a tag to each feature - and a domain expert looks at features with a certain tag. 15:15:15 <AJaeger> HeliosReds: That one could be base_system 15:16:11 <HeliosReds> I've just added. ;-) 15:18:09 <AJaeger> simon123: What we need is general speaking about features IMO - I don't want to push every single feature 15:18:37 <AJaeger> so, let's add further tags if we need them to the list of tags - so that we can then add "domain experts" to the tag list 15:18:57 * simon123 gives a Medal of Clear Talk to HeliosReds for http://en.opensuse.org/File:OpenFATE_feature_handling_flow.png 15:19:27 * AJaeger claps as well 15:19:54 <simon123> AJaeger: that particular one is low hanging fruit, not much work to implement 15:20:50 <AJaeger> simon123: Yep. 15:21:40 <AJaeger> simon123: Also move the feature to NEW. 15:21:49 <AJaeger> (or whoever just added the tag) 15:22:43 <Spyhawk> ok, then... anything else to discuss? 15:23:34 <simon123> AJaeger: I'm not sure that I can change anything - never applied to be a screener 15:23:53 <AJaeger> simon123: Everybody is allowed to change - like in Bugzilla. 15:23:58 <simon123> ok 15:24:19 <AJaeger> But I agree, the screeners should do it - so if you want to join us, just sign up ;) 15:24:41 <simon123> (where :D ) 15:24:58 <simon123> I still don't see how to change status 15:25:05 <AJaeger> simon123: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_screening#Participants 15:25:59 <Spyhawk> simon123: "Edit products" on features.opensuse.org/preview/<number> 15:26:37 <simon123> done 15:26:48 <simon123> (both) 15:26:49 <AJaeger> ok, topic closed? 15:27:15 <HeliosReds> simon123: Then, click left yellow box. 15:27:34 <AJaeger> #topic Using openFATE - questions on workflow and usage 15:28:10 <AJaeger> Any questions comments on workflow and using the webui? 15:31:49 <simon123> obvious one: Can we have few more words more instead of icons +tooltips 15:32:26 <simon123> I didn't find how to edit feature status without help 15:34:23 <AJaeger> simon123: So, a visual guide or just words in the Webui? 15:34:46 <simon123> at least word next to icon 15:34:49 <digitltom> simon123: don't you have the link 'edit products'? 15:34:58 <digitltom> that's 2 words ;-) 15:35:22 <digitltom> simon123: we are talking about the new client on features.opensuse.org/preview/ 15:35:30 <simon123> yes 15:35:46 <simon123> I have link 'edit products' , but after that I have only two icons with tooltips 15:36:00 <digitltom> ah ok 15:36:40 <simon123> btw, can you make /preview actual default for server / 15:36:53 <simon123> to me it looks fine 15:37:11 <digitltom> that's what we want to decide in this meeting, if it's ready yet 15:37:18 <digitltom> i think so, too 15:37:39 <AJaeger> Ok, then let 15:37:58 <AJaeger> Ok, then let's ask: Should we move /preview into production? Any blockers? 15:38:43 <simon123> It looks much better then the old one 15:39:05 <AJaeger> And we can continue improving it... 15:39:16 <AJaeger> So, any body objecting? 15:39:44 <AJaeger> If not, I suggest digitltom, jos and myself write an announcement announcing the new version and we do the switch... 15:40:30 <HeliosReds> AJaeger: +1 15:40:46 <AJaeger> #action AJaeger, digitltom: Coordinate writing of announcement of new openFATE version and put preview into production 15:41:07 <AJaeger> #topic Q&A 15:41:13 <AJaeger> Any further questions, comments, ideas? 15:41:19 <AJaeger> If not, let's push features around ;) 15:42:34 <simon123> where do we communicate after the meeting. I have a questions about particular features 15:43:30 <HeliosReds> -project list? 15:43:41 <simon123> good for me 15:43:44 <AJaeger> Should we just use a pirate pad where people can add features they have problems with? And then others clean up... 15:44:29 <Spyhawk> fine to me. 15:44:38 <simon123> what I need right now is consent what to do - pad will not solve that 15:44:56 <simon123> besides :) https://features.opensuse.org/preview/310652 15:46:39 <AJaeger> simon123: Then let's discuss on opensuse-project. 15:46:47 <simon123> ok 15:46:59 <AJaeger> And if there's too much need for discussion, we create our own mailing list... 15:47:09 <Stano> :-D 15:47:18 <simon123> (oh no) 15:48:36 <simon123> project list is fine :) (just no another corner where no one looks at) 15:49:54 <AJaeger> ok, can we close the meeting? I try to be available on #opensuse-project if you have any questions - and digitltom is as well ;) 15:50:36 <HeliosReds> It might be helpful to add [FATE] or [openFATE] to the subject, when we post an openFATE-related email to -project list. 15:50:43 <Stano> no furher comments or questiosn from me 15:51:09 <Stano> digitltom: will you send us a mail when bucket product is ready? 15:51:33 <simon123> HeliosReds: good idea (if not forgotten) 15:52:36 <AJaeger> HeliosReds: Let'S use [openFATE] 15:53:10 <HeliosReds> OK. 15:53:31 * Stano has to leave now 15:53:47 <AJaeger> Bye STano! 15:53:48 * simon123 too (Have a fun) 15:54:02 <Stano> bye all! 15:54:03 <AJaeger> Thanks a lot for the meeting - let's meet again in two weeks! 15:54:05 <AJaeger> #endmeeting