19:00:51 <warlordfff> #startmeeting
19:00:51 <bugbot> Meeting started Fri Jul 27 19:00:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is warlordfff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:51 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:17 <warlordfff> #topic Have the ambassador done write up on they blog/social media groups
19:01:17 <warlordfff> about 12.2 and what coming out? All this stuff needs to be done .
19:01:35 <warlordfff> So
19:02:17 <warlordfff> what are your thoughts?
19:02:53 <warlordfff> actually I gouess we should wait for the Release notes in order to discuss that
19:02:57 <warlordfff> but
19:03:04 <Eduaraujo> I wrote in my twitter @duddatech, and refer to @openSUSE.
19:03:30 <warlordfff> what we usually do is use all sociall media to spread the word to the world
19:03:53 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo:  yeap that is the way
19:04:18 <warlordfff> also use Facebook, linkedin G+ or whatever else you have
19:04:41 <Ilmehtar> I've already started using my blog to write guides on topics I think people might find important for 12.2 - like my article on battery life. I plan on doing more of that and my usual on twitter and now G+
19:04:50 <warlordfff> a nice thing to do is use your local communities profile in all that
19:05:02 <Eduaraujo> I'll start a blog to share the openSUSE news.
19:05:04 <warlordfff> like we in Greece use openSUSE-el
19:05:20 <warlordfff> also blogging is necessary
19:05:46 <warlordfff> for now we can say things like openSUSE 12.2 is comming
19:05:53 <warlordfff> and other similar stuff
19:05:59 <Eduaraujo> yep.
19:06:16 <warlordfff> working the Beta or the RC edition would help you to expose some of the new features
19:06:54 <warlordfff> generally what we need to make as ambassadors is make a lot of noise around about it
19:07:18 <warlordfff> and when I say a lot, I mean A LOT
19:07:57 <warlordfff> also a nice thing to do is speak to your local community people and have them help you with all that
19:08:22 <Eduaraujo> posters can be helpful too.
19:08:24 <warlordfff> both in English but also in your native langouage too since not everybody speaks English
19:08:43 <warlordfff> I believe we will have posters but this will be after the release
19:09:05 <warlordfff> ask for promo material and spread it around
19:09:14 <warlordfff> think outside the box
19:09:20 <warlordfff> this is really important
19:09:40 <Eduaraujo> a non-official version... svg of 12.1 with some changes.
19:09:58 <warlordfff> I believe we have 12.2 artwork
19:10:07 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar: ?
19:10:11 <warlordfff> do we?
19:10:24 <Ilmehtar> there is a ton of artwork in the github repo, let me just get the URL
19:10:36 <Ilmehtar> github.com/openSUSE/branding
19:10:48 <warlordfff> sorry for that guys but I am still a bit hangovered from last night and my RAM is really slow and limited :D
19:11:13 <warlordfff> tux93:  any possible questions?
19:11:21 <Ilmehtar> we dont have much derivative stuff yet, we need to update the slides and other promotional materials in https://github.com/openSUSE/artwork to make use of the 12.2 branding
19:11:32 <Ilmehtar> that's something I have on my radar for the gap between RC2 and release
19:11:47 <Eduaraujo> posters create a nice visual effect...
19:11:48 <warlordfff> oh Ilmehtar when slides will be available you think?
19:11:59 <warlordfff> ok
19:12:13 <Ilmehtar> I know that's al ittle later than I'd like but I'm splitting my time (much more limited than last release) between bug testing, gnome stuff, and this stuff :)
19:12:22 <warlordfff> we can use the backround of 12.2 for posters
19:12:28 <Ilmehtar> I might try and get the slides done tomorrow though
19:12:32 <tux93> warlordfff: no, maybe a can ask rodger to get access to openSUSE page on g+
19:12:51 <Ilmehtar> it's a great background to layer stuff ontop, it's very 'plain' compared to our 12.1 background though
19:13:12 <warlordfff> I would incourage you to make local pages of openSUSE in G+
19:13:37 <tux93> also a possibillity
19:13:42 <warlordfff> that way you may atract more people into it
19:13:50 <Eduaraujo> ok
19:13:52 <warlordfff> it work for us
19:14:04 <warlordfff> and AFAIK it work for the Spanish too
19:14:30 <warlordfff> also speaking your native langouage is better for most local users
19:14:45 <warlordfff> :D
19:15:24 <warlordfff> anything else around Social media?
19:15:45 <tux93> not from my side
19:16:01 <Eduaraujo> Youtube channel would be fine...
19:16:28 <warlordfff> yeap
19:16:31 <Eduaraujo> local channels...
19:16:34 <Ilmehtar> who'd make the videos for it?
19:16:37 <warlordfff> you can use youtube channel
19:16:46 <warlordfff> mmm
19:16:48 <Ilmehtar> video content isn't exactly something we've ever seen much of from our community
19:16:57 <Eduaraujo> the ambassadors
19:17:21 <warlordfff> someone who is great at video editing, is an artist and he is British? :D
19:17:30 <Eduaraujo> record the videos...
19:17:50 <warlordfff> well we can be seen from now on
19:17:53 <Eduaraujo> saying what is cool about openSUSE...
19:17:58 <warlordfff> we can always make a fresh start
19:18:11 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo: +1
19:18:42 <warlordfff> so who wants to try and make a promo video for 12.2?
19:18:54 <warlordfff> maybe more than one person
19:19:11 <warlordfff> who is willing to take that task?
19:19:26 <Eduaraujo> today, even cell phones shoot video in a good resolution...
19:19:43 <warlordfff> well editing is the problem here as I see it
19:20:05 <anditosan> warlordfff, you should contact mfoxdogg, he created a video on blender for intros for the distro videos. Maybe he can take it further
19:20:09 <Eduaraujo> but a camcorder is better
19:20:21 <warlordfff> I have some ideas but honestly, I have a lot on my plate
19:20:31 <Eduaraujo> It is a problem.
19:20:41 <warlordfff> anditosan:  can you send me an email with his contact and some more details?
19:20:46 <Ilmehtar> phew, good thing I'm not an artist and no good at video editin
19:20:58 <Ilmehtar> (forgive the lag in my replies - watching the Olympic opening ceremony)
19:20:59 <tux93> warlordfff: share your ideas, maybe someone can grab them
19:21:11 <warlordfff> tux93:  you are right
19:21:20 <anditosan> he will be available in a couple of hours at #opensuse-artwork
19:21:33 <anditosan> also victorhck did some trials with blender as well
19:21:55 <warlordfff> anditosan:  my mind is mushed up and what I don't see in e-mail I loose it :s
19:22:09 <warlordfff> so ideas
19:22:38 <Eduaraujo> the youtube idea would make A LOT of noise
19:22:57 <anditosan> ok, I will mention it to him
19:23:03 <Eduaraujo> but editing is a problem
19:23:04 <anditosan> I don't know his email, that's why
19:23:06 <warlordfff> i was thinking in making something where many ambassadors and developers will speak in fron of the cammera giving details for the new edition and at the same time showing that to the video
19:23:49 <Eduaraujo> ok
19:24:17 <warlordfff> anditosan: ok in that case I will try to be later in opensuse-artwork and talk with him, also we could continue that video thing to tha mailing list
19:24:28 <warlordfff> what do you thing?
19:24:31 <warlordfff> what do you think?
19:24:35 <anditosan> yeah, and also right now you should talk to Zanqdo
19:24:39 <anditosan> at artwork as well
19:24:45 <anditosan> he is a professional animator
19:25:15 <warlordfff> well i will be at artwork channel and you can tell me there what to do, is that ok with you anditosan?
19:25:31 <anditosan> yes, come in right now and I will introduce you
19:25:40 <warlordfff> not right now
19:25:44 <warlordfff> after the meeting
19:25:47 <warlordfff> :D
19:25:58 <warlordfff> not feeling so multitasking today :s
19:26:13 <warlordfff> anditosan:  will you be around?
19:26:23 <anditosan> I will yes
19:26:28 <anditosan> lol
19:26:39 <warlordfff> is there someone else who would like to take that task from me?
19:26:58 <warlordfff> tux93: maybe you?
19:27:03 <Eduaraujo> nope.
19:27:39 <warlordfff> come on guys I am a poor, timeless firefighter
19:27:44 <warlordfff> tux93: maybe you?
19:28:01 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar: you?
19:28:11 <warlordfff> anyone
19:28:28 <warlordfff> you want me to beg? LoL
19:28:53 <Ilmehtar> warlordfff: take what task? video? no, I seirously have NO interest in video at all
19:29:05 <warlordfff> ok :(
19:29:12 <warlordfff> so
19:29:26 <warlordfff> should we move on to the next subject?
19:30:15 <warlordfff> 3
19:30:18 <tux93> yes, bring the video-subject back up on the ml, i'll think about it
19:30:27 <warlordfff> ok
19:30:32 <warlordfff> we have a winner
19:31:01 <tux93> you want me to crash and burn don't you? :D
19:31:02 <warlordfff> tux93:  maybe i will also tell the guys to talk with you, I believe I have your e-mail
19:31:24 <tux93> everyone on the ml has it
19:31:35 <warlordfff> tux93: not exactly :D I am just trying not to crush myself
19:31:43 <warlordfff> thanks
19:32:01 <warlordfff> so should we move on?
19:32:05 <warlordfff> 3
19:32:08 <warlordfff> 2
19:32:10 <warlordfff> 1
19:32:12 <Eduaraujo> ok
19:32:27 <warlordfff> #topic When press DVD will be our for 12.2. Until when will the Gold Master be ready for download, please torrent it. That way we can seed and getting to all the ambassadors faster. When can we make orders for parties.
19:33:04 <warlordfff> Now AFAIK Media are usually out a week or so after the release
19:33:31 <warlordfff> but seeding torrents would be great
19:33:34 <Ilmehtar> that seems more like a general marketing question to me rather than ambassador one..and that'll be something to speak to AJ about - certainly nothing we can do..we're at the whim of our SUSE sponsors when it comes to press DVD's
19:33:56 <warlordfff> actually Ilmehtar you are 100% right
19:34:29 <warlordfff> but if someone has any questions here we could answer
19:34:52 <warlordfff> anyone?
19:35:09 <warlordfff> does everybody knows how to order media?
19:35:39 <warlordfff> http://software.opensuse.org/promodvd
19:35:46 <warlordfff> here it is just in case
19:36:34 <warlordfff> and remember to ask for stickers, and everything else also
19:37:15 <Eduaraujo> we depend on this to make our requests for marketing materials.
19:37:18 <warlordfff> does anyone had any kind of problems ordering stuff from there?
19:37:58 <warlordfff> who of you have actually ordered stuff from there?
19:38:09 * tux93 has
19:38:26 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo:  you?
19:38:47 <warlordfff> I heard of some problems the Brazilians had with Customs
19:39:06 <warlordfff> are those problems over?
19:39:17 <warlordfff> do you happen to know?
19:39:34 <Eduaraujo> I wrote to AJ and he said that applications should be made after the release because they are out of stock at the moment.
19:39:48 <warlordfff> yeap, that is true
19:40:20 <warlordfff> I still have 100 out of 2000 I got though but some LUG asked for more so ...
19:40:35 <warlordfff> oh
19:40:39 <warlordfff> an idea
19:41:08 <warlordfff> you people could write an upgrade How-to in your native langouage
19:41:16 <warlordfff> everybody should do that
19:41:37 <warlordfff> what do you think?
19:42:46 <tux93> +1, i guess best place would be wiki
19:43:14 <warlordfff> yeap
19:43:20 <Eduaraujo> I haven't nothing. In september I'll make my application.
19:43:37 <warlordfff> do you have a translation team for your local wikis?
19:43:53 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo: ?
19:44:00 <Eduaraujo> no.
19:44:04 <warlordfff> haven't done nothing? on what?
19:44:37 <Eduaraujo> marketing materials.
19:44:51 <warlordfff> ok
19:45:08 <warlordfff> you can co-operate with the other Brazilians
19:45:16 <warlordfff> you guys are doing great there
19:45:18 <Eduaraujo> ok.
19:45:43 <warlordfff> but you could write a How-to in Portuguese
19:45:47 <warlordfff> :)
19:46:08 <warlordfff> about the upgrade from 12.1 to 12.2
19:46:48 <warlordfff> anything else on that?
19:46:56 <Eduaraujo> ok.
19:47:30 <Eduaraujo> Our team is in deficit, the ambassadors listed on the map there are few that are active.
19:47:40 <warlordfff> classic
19:48:07 <warlordfff> that is why me and Ilmehtar are working in a new ambassador program those days
19:48:10 <Eduaraujo> I always communicate with Izabel.
19:48:18 <warlordfff> actually for a year and more
19:48:22 <warlordfff> yeap
19:48:34 <warlordfff> Izabel is the best you can find
19:48:48 <Eduaraujo> she is.
19:48:48 <warlordfff> also Luiz Machado is doing Great work
19:48:52 <Ilmehtar> yup
19:48:57 <warlordfff> and Carlos
19:49:19 <warlordfff> arg, I love most of the Brazilians so don't get me start
19:49:23 <warlordfff> :D
19:49:56 <warlordfff> anyway if this subject is over we could move on
19:50:04 <warlordfff> what do you think?
19:50:41 <warlordfff> 3
19:50:45 <warlordfff> 2
19:50:47 <warlordfff> 1
19:50:57 <warlordfff> #topic 12.2 launch party
19:51:06 <warlordfff> oups my favourite
19:51:09 <warlordfff> :D
19:51:16 <warlordfff> so any plans anyone?
19:51:40 <warlordfff> we had 6 party for 12.1
19:51:41 <Ilmehtar> no plans from me, release week is the worst week of the year for me at work ;-)
19:51:54 <warlordfff> well you can do it later
19:51:58 <diamond_gr> I guess a big release party in Prague!!!
19:52:09 <warlordfff> diamond_gr:  yeap ;-)
19:52:35 <diamond_gr> when's the 12.2 release?
19:53:05 <warlordfff> I think 4th of September
19:53:08 <Dominian> diamond_gr: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap
19:53:18 <Dominian> 5th of Sep, according to that.
19:53:37 <warlordfff> oh
19:53:41 <warlordfff> lost a day
19:53:44 <Dominian> :)
19:53:44 <warlordfff> :)
19:53:50 * diamond_gr Dominian are you sure ;-) he he
19:54:15 <Dominian> I'm not sure of anything, I just go by what is published officially by the openSUSE project.  That link is to their Roadmap
19:54:18 * Dominian shrugs
19:54:23 <warlordfff> I just wonder about 12.3 but it is still to early for that
19:55:03 <Eduaraujo> I am planning a big release party in my city. But we depend on the mail delivery of our marketing material...
19:55:28 <warlordfff> well there is that too
19:56:00 <warlordfff> but this should not be a problem
19:56:07 <tux93> is there anything special to consider when planning besides having enough install-media?
19:56:18 <warlordfff> you can make a presentation and spread the .ISO by USB
19:56:31 <warlordfff> tux93: well
19:56:42 <Eduaraujo> warlordfff: in which month you think it's the better??
19:56:42 <warlordfff> we don't base the Parties to the media
19:56:49 <warlordfff> we make real parties
19:57:01 <diamond_gr> guys, it's a party. you go to drink beers, have a cake.
19:57:03 <warlordfff> Celebrating the new edition of the software
19:57:14 <warlordfff> diamond_gr:  +!
19:57:18 <warlordfff> diamond_gr: +1
19:57:29 <diamond_gr> media? anyone can download the ISO, install it
19:57:35 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo:  every month is perfect for a party
19:57:48 <diamond_gr> or get the promodvd from an event
19:58:00 <warlordfff> what we do is drink beers and talk to people about the new edition
19:58:06 <warlordfff> mostly
19:58:20 <warlordfff> having people relaxed is easier to be heard
19:58:30 <warlordfff> at least in our culture
19:58:50 <warlordfff> adjust this to your culture, this is really importand
19:59:21 <warlordfff> just because it works for us doesn't mean anything actually, but think outside the box
19:59:46 <warlordfff> do it your way, not the usual way, if you know what I mean
20:00:02 <warlordfff> give the Release party your signature
20:00:26 <warlordfff> The openSUSE PRoject is both the people and the software
20:00:39 <Eduaraujo> warlordfff: I am saying that taking into account the delay in mail delivery in relation to the month of release.
20:00:58 <warlordfff> yeap, I got you Eduaraujo
20:01:16 <warlordfff> you can have a release party even 5 months later
20:01:33 <Eduaraujo> ok
20:01:41 <warlordfff> the thing is to have people around to talk about the new Release
20:02:04 <warlordfff> ok the 1st week would be perfect burt any day is Great
20:02:39 <warlordfff> the thing is to spread the word everywere
20:02:51 <warlordfff> have more than one Party
20:03:15 <warlordfff> find other people to organise Release Parties and send them material if you have
20:03:45 <warlordfff> ask LUGs and Hackerspaces to organise parties too
20:04:15 <warlordfff> we have great Software so i don't think that someone will say no to you
20:04:50 <warlordfff> you don't have to do it all by yourself
20:05:03 <warlordfff> asking help is good
20:05:13 <Eduaraujo> ok
20:05:21 <warlordfff> :D
20:06:20 <warlordfff> half of the parties we made in Greece was organised by  LUGs and other community members
20:06:45 <warlordfff> people like to know new things
20:08:02 <Eduaraujo> new things are welcome everywhere...
20:08:15 <warlordfff> yeap, you got the meaning ;-)
20:08:29 <warlordfff> so give people new things
20:08:46 <warlordfff> give those who don't know openSUSE
20:08:58 <warlordfff> ;-)
20:09:10 <warlordfff> anything else to this?
20:09:15 <warlordfff> oh
20:09:23 <warlordfff> almost forgot it
20:10:01 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar - anditosan are we going to have any Release Party Posters?
20:10:30 <Eduaraujo> is important to get people to enchant.
20:10:32 <Eduaraujo> and delight when we overcome people's expectations.
20:10:40 <warlordfff> yeap
20:11:48 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar: ?
20:12:04 <Ilmehtar> warlordfff: dude, i'm not really an artist, I'm far more of an implementer - taking folks artwork and making it work in the distro..I'm not the right person to ask.
20:12:16 <warlordfff> :(
20:12:25 <warlordfff> anditosan: ?
20:13:03 <Eduaraujo> so let's do what nobody has thought before, that is thinking outside the box.
20:13:29 <warlordfff> yeap
20:14:00 <Eduaraujo> have we a preview of the 12.2 artwork?
20:14:51 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar:  gave a link before I think, in the start of the meeting
20:15:07 <Eduaraujo> like wallpaper,  GUI??
20:15:14 <Ilmehtar> http://github.com/openSUSE/branding this is where all the branding packaging is put together
20:15:28 <Eduaraujo> ok, thanks
20:16:46 <warlordfff> move to the next one?
20:17:02 <Ilmehtar> please, I need to get moving..
20:17:07 <warlordfff> #topic Wiki page where the ambassadors can post their launch party, dates,location.
20:17:37 <warlordfff> now we had tha  pages in the past
20:18:26 <warlordfff> but you can also put your Parties in http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_events
20:18:49 <warlordfff> I just cannot find the link to that other page, sorry
20:18:52 <tux93> http://en.opensuse.org/Launch_party
20:19:09 <warlordfff> tux93:  you are a life saver dude, thanks :D
20:20:18 <tux93> that has to be meaningfull coming from a firefighter
20:20:41 <warlordfff> :D
20:21:12 <warlordfff> tux93:  are you going to be on osc12?
20:21:37 <tux93> i hope so, but i'm not certain yet
20:21:57 <warlordfff> I hope you will
20:22:09 <warlordfff> the more the better
20:23:03 <warlordfff> now should we move to the next subject?
20:23:16 <Eduaraujo> let's go.
20:23:27 <warlordfff> #topic openSUSE Summit and OSC12
20:23:46 <warlordfff> anyone who would like to help knows how to do it right?
20:24:22 <Ilmehtar> I plan to be at teh summit but as I haven't heard from the travel sponsorship team I haven't been able to book anything yet (and I'm terrified I wont be able to afford it as prices are rising now it's getting closer)
20:24:23 <warlordfff> so nothing to tell about this actually
20:24:57 <warlordfff> so lets go to the final topic about Travel fund
20:25:04 <warlordfff> what do you think?
20:25:13 <Ilmehtar> oki
20:25:22 <tux93> right
20:25:43 <warlordfff> #topic Travel fund for the ambassadors and address any questions on that.
20:25:49 <warlordfff> ok
20:25:51 <warlordfff> so
20:26:06 <warlordfff> let me tell you a few things about this first
20:26:25 <warlordfff> we have the money and we really want to spent it all
20:26:27 <Eduaraujo> travel support applications deadline expired last week.
20:26:31 <Ilmehtar> my biggest issue with the travel fund is that for events like the Summit, I worry that the process started too late, and is giving its answers so late that prices are going to be higher than originally quoted by the ambassadors - how will the fund deal with it if it an ambassador finds that they cant afford a significantly higher price because airfairs and accomodtion have increased during the del
20:26:31 <Ilmehtar> ay?
20:27:00 <warlordfff> wait please to finish those I would like to say and i will answer everything
20:27:53 <warlordfff> so
20:28:15 <warlordfff> We want to give everyone the change to come
20:29:01 <warlordfff> but as it should be done, those who work and those who need the money should get them
20:29:10 <warlordfff> trust me, this is not easy
20:29:40 <warlordfff> but me and Izabel are really trying to make things right
20:29:47 <warlordfff> so now hit me
20:29:49 <warlordfff> :D
20:30:51 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar:  you might are right but the thing is to see what we can do from now on with this
20:31:09 <Ilmehtar> I know it isn't easy buddy, I'm not suggesting it is, I'm purely raising an issue that could be a major point of concern..how are you going to deal with it if/when ambassadors find it's going to cost them more than they originally quoted for?
20:31:30 <Ilmehtar> I know in my case I'm going to find it very difficult, especially at this brutally short notice, to find extra money to get myself to the summit
20:31:35 <warlordfff> I know that, I also have a problem with it
20:32:03 <anditosan> warlordfff, it's just a matter of requesting them via the mailing list
20:32:36 <warlordfff> anditosan:  yeap but if we reach the limit of the money we must share the money the right way
20:33:28 <warlordfff> now I guess we will reply soon to the people who asked money for the Summit
20:33:30 <Ilmehtar> warlordfff: I think anditosan might be talking about your artwork requests :)
20:33:45 <warlordfff> mmm
20:33:52 <Ilmehtar> warlordfff: if I dont get a reply by the 30th, then I'm very stuck, because I am *required* to confirm whether I'm going or not by the 1st, because I'm meant to be a speaker
20:34:03 <warlordfff> yeap
20:34:09 <anditosan> yes sorry, I was off for a minute
20:34:19 <anditosan> if it's about money matters, please talk to Jos
20:34:29 <warlordfff> I thing that this will be setled in the weekend but honestly I cannot promise anything
20:35:05 <warlordfff> anditosan:  the reason that the TST was made was not to ask Jos
20:35:13 <warlordfff> :D
20:35:21 <warlordfff> also Jos is off those days
20:35:36 <warlordfff> anyway
20:35:42 <Ilmehtar> very dissapointing - what is the point of the programme if it takes so long we cant practically book travel and accomodation anyhow? and ends up causing knock on effects that prevent the smooth planning of the event itself? I'm not going to be popular if I say 'I dunno' if I can attend my own sessio nor not ;-)
20:36:27 <warlordfff> this only happened in Summit
20:36:44 <warlordfff> and again, we are trying and mistakes are done
20:37:05 <warlordfff> for oSC it will be better I think
20:37:38 <Ilmehtar> I don't think I'll be comfortably relying on it :-;
20:37:39 <Ilmehtar> :-/
20:38:11 <warlordfff> I know dude and trust me that I totaly get you but I really cannot do nothing
20:38:12 <anditosan> I see
20:38:25 <Ilmehtar> warlordfff: that's fine, if you can't, who can?
20:39:04 <warlordfff> what I meant is that you have to wait for an answer
20:39:06 <anditosan> let's send it up the project ml
20:39:23 <warlordfff> wait a minute please
20:39:44 <anditosan> ok
20:40:22 <warlordfff> we will send replies on time
20:40:45 <warlordfff> it is not 30th of July yet
20:40:57 <warlordfff> so why the panic?
20:41:18 <warlordfff> that was the plan from the beggining
20:41:35 <Ilmehtar> my point is, the 30th of July, is still too short a time for an event that is going to have expensive travel like Summit
20:41:58 <warlordfff> I get Ilmehtar but that does not mean anything, when you guys asked for sponsorship you read the scedule
20:42:17 <Ilmehtar> the price I quoted for hotel and flight back when I first requested was 10% less than when I was allowed to quote again on the 20th of July, and now it's going to be the 30th before I get an answer and can start booking things
20:42:43 <warlordfff> well it is still 1 and a 1/2 month earlier
20:42:48 <Ilmehtar> the plan is the team will sponser 80%..will they sponser 80% of what I quoted, or 80% of what it actually costs me because the prices steadily go up the closer you get to travel dates?
20:43:07 <warlordfff> and we made that announcement a month a go
20:43:12 <Ilmehtar> because in the case of the summit, we're not talking about a few quid, but potentially several hundred pounds more that I'll ahve to find
20:43:23 <warlordfff> why didn't you reacted back then?
20:43:44 <warlordfff> the anouncement was made by Jos at 26/6
20:43:45 <Ilmehtar> Because I didn't realise quite how much and how aggressively Flights and hotel prices would increase within 8 weeks
20:43:56 <Ilmehtar> and that's my point
20:44:02 <Ilmehtar> there is a fatal flaw in the current procedure
20:44:07 <warlordfff> well there in nothing I can do for that
20:44:10 <Ilmehtar> we're not allowed to book until we get a yes/no from the team
20:44:16 <warlordfff> well
20:44:34 <Ilmehtar> but once we do yet a yes/no, will the Ambassador be expected to cover the additional costs that have been incurred due to the length the process took?
20:44:35 <warlordfff> you are right
20:44:50 <warlordfff> next time we will try to make it better
20:45:00 <warlordfff> but for now, thats it
20:45:03 <Ilmehtar> or will the sponsership programme be able to cover the increased costs, not the costs originally quoted by the ambassador?
20:45:19 <warlordfff> nop
20:45:32 <warlordfff> that is written in the TSP
20:45:42 <warlordfff> again
20:45:45 <Ilmehtar> show me where
20:45:57 <warlordfff> you did not knew it, how could we know it?
20:46:11 <warlordfff> wait please
20:46:23 <Ilmehtar> my point is - the extra cost is caused by the delay, the schedule which the TSP is imposing
20:46:56 <Ilmehtar> lets say the process was a 1st-come, 1st served process, you'd get a much faster answer, and ambassadors would be able to book without having to shoulder MORE than 20% because of the increases in travel prices as events get closer
20:47:34 <warlordfff> Remember!
20:47:34 <warlordfff> If your ticket or travel gets more expensive after an amount has been confirmed, the excess will not be reimbursed
20:47:41 <warlordfff> this is it
20:47:59 <warlordfff> again
20:48:03 <Ilmehtar> then I think the TSP programme needs to be reworked to give much faster answers
20:48:06 <warlordfff> there was not a single delay
20:48:43 <Ilmehtar> the schedule is a 'delay'..you had ambassdors (me) ready to book weeks before I was 'allowed' to even put in my request
20:48:43 <warlordfff> you all knew when you will get an answer
20:48:56 <Ilmehtar> and I'm still left hanging, not knowing if I can go, and now not knowing if I can even afford to go
20:48:57 <warlordfff> again you all knew when you will get an answer
20:49:08 <Ilmehtar> as I see flight and accomodtion get higher and higher..
20:49:27 <Ilmehtar> that doesn't change the fact that it would be MUCh cheaper for me, as an ambassador, if I could get an answer much faster
20:49:44 <warlordfff> you are maybe right that this might be a bit late but this was the way it was planned and nobody said anthing before
20:50:15 <warlordfff> I still don't get where we dissagree
20:50:27 <Ilmehtar> well I sure did..I was sending emails asking about the process back in May and either got no reply or got told I had to wait
20:51:16 <Ilmehtar> we disagree where you seem to think it's a good idea to make ambassadors wait for a decision, which increases the cost to the ambassador (who has to field the excess)
20:51:32 <warlordfff> no
20:51:35 <Ilmehtar> where as I feel that the process should be reworked to give a much faster answer to those ambassadors who want to book earlier, and therefore save themselves *and the project* more money
20:51:45 <warlordfff> at start I said I understand that
20:51:59 <warlordfff> and we will try to make it better
20:52:13 <warlordfff> unfortunatelly for now noone can do nothing
20:52:21 <Ilmehtar> if the project approved my sponsership back in may, it would have been 10% less of the projects money than it's going to if it accepts my request now for example
20:52:30 <warlordfff> ok
20:53:04 <warlordfff> so the one who send the request earlier would get sponsored and the others would not...
20:53:14 <warlordfff> is this even close to fair?
20:53:34 <Ilmehtar> is it fair to make ambassadors pay more because of enforced delays?
20:53:49 <warlordfff> we did it that way because we wanted to be fair to all, not to cause problems
20:54:04 <Ilmehtar> yes, I do think it's fair to sponser those who proactive and commit to going earlier
20:54:07 <warlordfff> next time we will try to make it better
20:54:29 <warlordfff> did you know that there would be such an increase of prices?
20:54:33 <warlordfff> No
20:54:36 <Ilmehtar> it shows they're taking a proactive interest in the project, it saves the project money, and it saves them more money
20:54:40 <warlordfff> how could we know that?
20:54:47 <Ilmehtar> yes, I knew there would be some - travel prices ALWAYS get more expensive the closer you get to a travel date
20:54:48 <warlordfff> no
20:54:52 <warlordfff> wait
20:55:03 <warlordfff> we want to give all the money
20:55:27 <warlordfff> why shouldn't we
20:55:34 <Ilmehtar> whats the point of giving all the money if ambassadors cant afford to pay the excess they're going to be forced to pay because they've had to wait for everyone else to put in their requests?
20:55:34 <warlordfff> anyway
20:56:00 <warlordfff> ok
20:56:10 <warlordfff> I think that you don't understand me
20:56:27 <warlordfff> anyway
20:56:40 <Ilmehtar> you think forcing proactive ambassadors to wait for the lazy ones to have an opportunity to put in their request so they can all be considered equally is 'fair'
20:56:48 <warlordfff> what I can propose is since you did not get any answer yet, nobody did
20:56:57 <warlordfff> send the new prices
20:57:07 <warlordfff> not only you
20:57:11 <warlordfff> all of you
20:57:23 <warlordfff> this is fair for all
20:57:26 <warlordfff> ok?
20:57:33 <warlordfff> I am here to help
20:57:35 <Ilmehtar> ok
20:57:39 <warlordfff> I really am
20:58:04 <warlordfff> it is not like I will use the money otherwise
20:58:13 <warlordfff> those money are for there
20:58:15 <Ilmehtar> any other issues? I really need to get going, I'm an hour late
20:58:16 <warlordfff> only
20:58:31 <warlordfff> it is you asking me
20:58:39 <warlordfff> and please don't get mad
20:58:49 <warlordfff> we really try to do our best here
20:59:30 <Ilmehtar> I know, I'm just frustrated, I raised these concerns when I first heard of the TSP, and it's annoying to find myself stuck where I feared others could end up :)
20:59:38 <warlordfff> so this is the same for oSC
21:00:13 <warlordfff> if those who will apply see the prices raising just send us(on time) the new prices
21:00:44 <Ilmehtar> I have an idea..
21:00:48 <warlordfff> Ilmehtar:  you are probably the only who has that problem since you are going there from Europe
21:00:55 <Ilmehtar> probably
21:01:05 <Ilmehtar> but hotels still cost a fair bit :-p
21:01:20 <warlordfff> send all the new prices
21:01:27 <Ilmehtar> not sure if you'll like it, but it's a comrpomise between the idea of first-come first served, and 'everyone wait until everyone has had a chance to request'
21:01:28 <warlordfff> but please do it today
21:01:40 <Ilmehtar> I'll try, but it's 10PM here and I REALLY need to get going
21:01:40 <Ilmehtar> :-p
21:01:46 <Ilmehtar> anyway, my idea before I really have to run
21:01:46 <warlordfff> ok
21:01:58 <warlordfff> I love you anyway dude :D
21:02:42 <Ilmehtar> why doesn't the TSP do some kind of 'banding' approach - 1st wave of requests considered on Date X (nice and early) second wave of requests considered on Date Y (mid way through the process) and the last wave of requests considered at the same kind of distance from the event as you're doing now?
21:03:02 <warlordfff> well
21:03:12 <Ilmehtar> yes, it does mean there is a chance that the last wave will miss out..but it should encorage ambassadors to proactivly work on getting themselves out to those events
21:03:35 <warlordfff> 10 days are ok and there is no actuall reason to make things more complicated
21:03:57 <warlordfff> also there is a ton of other things that you cannot predict in that
21:04:10 <Ilmehtar> I do think the entire process of the TSP was started later than it should have been..like I said, I was ready in May, and I'm a slacker :-p
21:04:37 <warlordfff> well not all people can make plans for 3-4-5 months after
21:04:57 <warlordfff> and everybody should be able to file a request
21:05:10 <Ilmehtar> I know, but should the ones who can make plans 5 months before be punished with higher prices ?
21:05:38 <Ilmehtar> I'm paying more, the project is paying more, I dont see how that helps anyone, because it means theres less money to go around for others
21:05:45 <warlordfff> well as I said I don't think that this is fair for everybody
21:06:09 <warlordfff> we could talk around that but we need a couple of hours
21:06:20 <Ilmehtar> thats why I suggest the banding approach..put aside a chunk of the money for the first round of requests, get them out of the way early, save money there, and then you know exactly how much you have left for everyone else who comes in later
21:06:48 <warlordfff> what happens if the first wave is half of the money?
21:07:13 <warlordfff> do you give them half of the money or do you refuse reinbursment to people?
21:07:32 <warlordfff> and what happens if noone will apply for the next 2 waves
21:07:49 <warlordfff> what would you say to the people you refused money?
21:07:58 <Ilmehtar> you dont make ith alf the money..you say.."Okay, we have 1000 for event X. Lets put 300 aside for the first wave" - you get the first wave of requests, and you accept as many of them as you can. If you spend the 300, then you tell the poor people who dont get in on the first wave "Dont worry, you'll get an answer later on"
21:08:03 <warlordfff> there is a simple problem to think
21:08:16 <warlordfff> mmm
21:08:24 <warlordfff> is not that simple
21:08:29 <warlordfff> and you know it
21:08:35 <Ilmehtar> then you have 700 left, to spend on the later requesters and the ones you couldn't fit in the first wave
21:08:47 <Ilmehtar> why isn't it that simple?
21:09:11 <warlordfff> because there is also the matter of contribution
21:09:30 <warlordfff> because there is also the matter of previously sponsored
21:09:40 <warlordfff> and around 5-10 more reasons
21:09:41 <Ilmehtar> all things you'll know about when the first wave is being considered
21:09:43 <Ilmehtar> I dont see the problem there
21:09:55 <warlordfff> well we disagree on that
21:09:59 <warlordfff> I see
21:10:08 <Ilmehtar> and there's another issue here - this is a mess for our own event..the Summit - what if I was requested sponsorship to an externally hosted event?
21:10:33 <Ilmehtar> How bad would openSUSE look if I was, for example, having to tell FOSDEM "Sorry, I dont know if I can speak or not, because I dont know if I can afford to come or not, because my project haven't told me if I'm sponsored yet or not"?
21:10:47 <warlordfff> Summit and osc has nothing to do with other events
21:10:51 <warlordfff> seperate money
21:11:25 <Ilmehtar> so no way this would happen for another event?
21:11:36 <warlordfff> honestly?
21:12:13 <warlordfff> I don't know, all I know is that all of us in the TST we are trying to do our best for everyone
21:12:51 <Ilmehtar> well I've done my bit to point out an area that could do with improvement if we want to make sure we dont embarrass ourselves infront of other projects and events
21:13:10 <Ilmehtar> now I really have to dash, I'll be around tomorrow
21:13:14 <Eduaraujo> osc and summit would be transmitted... for the guys that can't go
21:13:16 <warlordfff> ok
21:13:27 <warlordfff> Eduaraujo:  I don't know
21:13:33 <warlordfff> suseROCKs:  around?
21:13:45 <diamond_gr> Guys, I think we miss the point.
21:13:50 <Eduaraujo> in a particular site...
21:14:00 <warlordfff> suseROCKs can answer you that about Summit Eduaraujo
21:14:04 <diamond_gr> If someone wants to join a conference, usually pays to attend it.
21:14:10 <diamond_gr> As visitor I mean.
21:14:59 <diamond_gr> If he wants wants to make a presentation (he has something to present) he applies for it.
21:15:17 <tux93> Eduaraujo: i dont know if it'll be transmitted life but i know there are plans to get videos of the talks on youtube http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Conference_todo_list
21:16:16 <warlordfff> well diamond_gr just leave it there
21:16:17 <diamond_gr> If someone wants travelling sponsorship to present something, then it's his problem and not the organization that will provide the money
21:16:26 <diamond_gr> That's what I think.
21:16:37 <warlordfff> that is what I think also\
21:16:40 <warlordfff> anyway
21:16:49 <warlordfff> that is also what I do
21:16:55 <warlordfff> but anyway
21:17:14 <warlordfff> any more questions about sponsorship?
21:18:13 <warlordfff> none?
21:18:21 <warlordfff> should we end the meeting?
21:18:48 <tux93> i think we got everythin covered
21:18:54 <warlordfff> ok
21:18:56 <warlordfff> so
21:19:08 <warlordfff> if there is nothing else...
21:19:18 <warlordfff> #endmeeting