14:08:08 #startmeeting 14:08:08 Meeting started Thu Jul 21 14:08:08 2011 UTC. The chair is mrdocs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:08:08 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:08:08 tittiatcoke: is you synaptiks working? 14:08:17 alin: Nope. 14:08:28 tittiatcoke: great makes too... just in time for the meeting 14:08:34 Linuxsusefan: can you repost that link ? 14:08:42 http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_meeting#Next_Meeting:_2011-07-21_Time:_1400_UTC 14:09:48 #topic old action items 14:09:48 Shall we start? 14:09:53 mrdocs: cartman has been link? 14:09:54 good :) 14:10:12 sorry brb phone 14:10:15 now for old action items 14:10:25 there was two issues that are relatively more important 14:10:32 merging KDF fixes back into KUSC 14:10:35 which I did 14:10:40 the other is 14:10:47 the future of phonon-backend-xin e 14:11:00 Now we know that we don't want xine 14:11:12 We can provide gstreamer and/or vlc backends 14:11:24 vlc is more feature complete and stable 14:11:34 cartman: VLC backend at this moment would be difficult as that VLC is not shipped by openSUSE. 14:11:39 indeed 14:11:47 back 14:11:47 My proposal is something like this: 14:11:57 provide phonon-backend-gstreamer as usual 14:12:00 _and_ 14:12:08 gstreamer +1 14:12:12 package phonon-backend-vlc with crippled vlc 14:12:24 now I discussed this with VLC developersd 14:12:45 and DimStar who is from openSUSE Gnome team maintains a full featured VLC repo for openSUSE 11.3 and up 14:12:49 so 14:12:53 cartman: That is already happening in KDE:Unstable:Playground. 14:13:00 good! 14:13:06 so we'll provide a dummy backend 14:13:21 which will be updated by either a) VLC repo or b) Packman 14:13:33 I like a) more but its users' choice 14:13:36 both will work 14:13:41 cartman: But we would need the crippled VLC being reviewed by the legal team. 14:13:51 most ppl already have a packman repo 14:13:55 cartman: Correct. I have been working like that for at least 1 year 14:13:57 has it not been already ? 14:14:00 actually we just need headers 14:14:06 we can even provide empty *.so files 14:14:07 cartman having VLC repo & Packman lead usually to crash ... 14:14:15 tigerfoot: users will select one 14:14:24 I'll myself use VLC repo and suggest that 14:14:29 because Packman is huge 14:14:35 cartman: Not if you want to compile the vlc backend. What I understood from the vlc developers is that we need the core vlc library 14:14:39 and I get VLC fixes fast :) 14:14:54 tittiatcoke: yes core VLC lib. doesn't have any codec etc. 14:14:56 so its good to go 14:15:12 Could the crippled VLC be put in multimedia:libs and linked from there? 14:15:20 it would be nice 14:15:36 cartman: If VLC, then all the packages from packman to avoid crashs 14:15:38 cartman: The next step would be is to submit the crippled VLC to one of the multimedia repo's and have the novell legal team do a review 14:15:52 Linuxsusefan: Packman usually does conflict with lots of stuff :( 14:16:03 tittiatcoke: alright, do you care for it or shall I do? 14:16:11 packman is working on improving that 14:16:21 cartman: I can submit 14:16:27 tittiatcoke: cool 14:16:48 I am testing VLC packages for over a week now and its quite goodf 14:17:08 if we can even integrate this into ksuseinstall it would be even better 14:17:35 any ideas about this? 14:17:54 ksuseinstall has been created by llunak :-) 14:18:18 well one could write a QML app using packagekit to add VLC or packman repo 14:18:21 and do an update 14:18:22 oh well 14:18:25 sounds like a plan 14:18:26 I'll look into that 14:18:33 Ok 14:18:47 anyhow good news is phonon-backend-VLC is quite good 14:18:57 thats all from me for old action items 14:19:08 yes vlc is working nicely for me 14:19:12 it would probably be good to keep the packman mainainers in the loop as well to minimize conflicts 14:19:20 i finally now have a VM with factory 14:19:23 they seem to be trying to improve the conflicts 14:19:35 TheBlackCat: agreed, I'll bridge them with the VLC upstream, we need versions synced 14:19:40 mrdocs: cool 14:19:59 the cool thing with VLC upstream is it has much less stuff 14:20:02 easier to maintain 14:20:07 only multimedia focus 14:20:13 any other old topics ? 14:20:19 cartman: Have a look at multimedia:xine. That one is linked with packman. 14:20:24 plus vlc folks are reactive to security stuff too 14:20:25 none from me 14:20:41 tittiatcoke: yep, crippled xine, same idea 14:20:58 cartman: That is where I got the idea to build a crippled vlc from :-) 14:21:04 :) 14:21:08 but packman is using the same repo to build the full version of xine 14:21:29 yep we need to bridge VLC <-> Packman 14:21:32 mrdocs: let move on to the next topic :-) 14:21:40 #topic status reports 14:22:15 Status of KDE 4.7 rc2 is KDF merge is in progress 14:22:25 will finish tomorrow evening probably 14:22:33 build will take whole weekend I assume 14:22:35 cartman: for Factory you can expect that kdegames4 will fail to build. 14:22:36 cartman: cool 14:22:36 cartman: legal will not let you ship an app that adds vlc or packman repos - don't you think I've done that if I could? 14:22:48 s/I've/I would have/ 14:23:00 llunak: ah, but the yast does it somehow 14:23:08 llunak: gets an XML from some site 14:23:11 let you add the repo 14:23:25 cartman: yes, but there the user does it, not the app, as such 14:23:37 Isn't that what we are suggesting, though? 14:23:42 well we can put some buttons and make them click? :) 14:23:59 The problem is users have no idea what Packman is 14:24:02 nor VLC 14:24:32 cartman: I'm afraid I don't remember all the details anymore, but this is again exactly the same problem that ksuseinstall was trying to fix in the first place 14:24:42 llunak: yup I know 14:24:45 cartman: IIRC the problem is that you cannot have 'add-this-repo' app 14:24:52 no matter how many buttons 14:24:59 the user has to willingly chose it 14:25:10 can you have an "add one of these repos" app? 14:25:27 I guess we can try to workaround that 14:25:49 not fun but well :/ 14:26:04 cartman: you're not located in Nbg, are you? 14:26:09 llunak: I am 14:26:16 lawyers don't talk to me ;) 14:26:25 cartman: then you need to talk to them 14:26:39 this is not a technical problem and so it cannot be solved using technical means 14:26:56 talk to juergen 14:26:58 ok 14:27:13 can we document the current procedure then? 14:27:21 or is it supposed to be hidden too? 14:27:42 cartman: I think that already is documented, the ksuseinstall dialog links to some 3rd party wiki 14:28:11 ok in the worst case we can blog about it, make people notice it easier etc. 14:28:23 sorry. lost connection 14:28:24 * mrdocs nods 14:28:37 any other status reports ? 14:28:43 cartman: first please talk to layers, this is not something where common sense works well, unfortunately 14:28:53 llunak: I mailed them for freetype subpixel 14:28:54 * mrdocs nods knowingly 14:28:56 still waiting 14:28:57 :| 14:29:07 and that has patents expired 14:29:13 mrdocs: yes 14:29:24 cartman: Did you got my message regarding kdegames4 failing for Factory ? 14:29:32 tittiathome: yeah but why will it fail? :) 14:29:49 cartman: you can just walk over to them, they will not bite you (well, at least I didn't get bitten) 14:29:59 llunak: alright :) 14:30:03 cartman: juergen should hopefully still remember the issue from talking to me 14:30:07 they'll just say no instead ;) 14:30:14 cartman: It will fail to detect PyKDE4. The reason for it is that with Factory the python stuff around the DLFCN module is gone (or placed somewhere else) 14:30:42 tittiathome: ok, at least Python bug, can debug it. 14:30:42 So the application Kajongg will not be build 14:30:50 thanks! 14:31:01 I am currently doing some cleaning on KDE:Unstable:SC packages (rpmlint and buildrequires and such), should that be done in KDF now? 14:31:05 llunak: nice to see you around btw, :) 14:31:16 TheBlackCat: yes but please pass this week 14:31:23 nice work btw! 14:31:40 need to get KDF ready for next week's release 14:31:46 sure thing. Can you email when it is safe again? 14:31:50 TheBlackCat: sure 14:31:58 krop: you want to give a status report? 14:32:13 * libmygpo-qt is submitted to O:F (amarok will use it) 14:32:33 * cartman OK'd it 14:32:35 krop: what does it do ? 14:32:35 *libprison submitted to O:F (kaddressbook and klipper will be able to show barcodes in 4.7) 14:32:54 libmygpo gives access to the gpodder.net api 14:33:25 (there are tons of podcasts referenced there) 14:34:19 and for kaddressbook, you'll be able to scan barcodes for every contact 14:34:25 nice 14:34:44 cool! 14:35:16 2 of the 4 concerned packages are currently being reviewed, one was accepted in O:F 14:35:30 anything we can do to speed things up ? 14:35:34 or hepl ? 14:35:38 help even ? 14:35:43 no 14:35:55 its in the legal queue afaik 14:36:35 libdmtx is waiting for the final review, qrencode is now in OF 14:37:04 ok anything else ? 14:37:36 cartman: please release of information about 47 in to post kdf on the mailing list. to get the user with what is found in what repos. it's a good wiki authors for us to know what information about the repositories need to be changed. 14:37:48 ah yes, 14:38:08 Linuxsusefan: I will, don't worry. 14:38:09 I've pushed the alternate akonadi-google resource to KUP, please test 14:38:18 Are herqq and cagibi also planned? 14:38:34 krop: i will test that 14:38:35 cartman: thanks 14:38:40 TheBlackCat: you submitted herqq now, what is HUPNP? 14:38:45 krop: will it work with 4.4.11 also ? 14:38:51 no 14:39:08 it depends on kdelibs >= 4.7 14:39:09 ok i can test elsewhere 14:39:09 herqq was already in the repo, I just added as a buildrequires 14:39:25 it is for the UPnP solid system 14:39:37 TheBlackCat: ok we can think about it. 14:40:25 cartman: I created that package in the past to use it for the UPnP framework, however it caused compiliation errors, so I removed the buildrequire again. Unfortunately I never got to it to test it again :-0 14:40:48 the solid code is quite messy (before 4.6) and I am not sure how far that it is working/building/etc 14:41:11 solid is well not so solid 14:41:21 :-) 14:41:36 I just built it myself, no compilation errors that I saw 14:42:02 cartman: I would say that we can activate the UPnP first in KUSC as soon as you are finished with the synchronization to KDF 14:42:28 TheBlackCat: herqq is building fine, but the solid backend back then caused compilation errors. 14:42:40 tittiathome: okies 14:42:54 I know, I mean I compiled kdelibs with hupnp support and it compiled fine 14:43:02 cartman: cagibi should be brought along with the KDE packages. it is a runtime requirement 14:43:32 alright 14:43:46 done 14:44:15 any other status reports ? 14:45:41 #topic discussion http://cakirerk.org/index.php/2011/06/quickformat-an-exciting-removable-disk-formatter-for-pardus/ 14:45:59 Include Quickformat in default installation? This seems very handy for people that buy an external hard disk etc 14:46:11 Do we have already an openSUSE package ? 14:46:14 im not sure who proposed this 14:46:34 apart from the dude calling KDE "inhuman" its OK 14:47:19 looks like a good idea 14:47:22 indeed 14:47:36 maybe i can take a stab at packaging it in the next few days 14:47:38 It looks like the only opensuse package for it is mine 14:47:45 lol :) 14:47:47 but I never got around to getting it to work 14:47:53 TheBlackCat: obs link ? 14:48:02 hahah. who charges KDE by *inhuman ??? :D 14:48:17 https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=quickformat&project=home%3ATheBlackCat%3Akde 14:49:00 Ah, I remember now, there were some python issues with the repo I was compiling against, at i was waiting until they were resolved 14:49:06 still hasn't happened, apparently 14:49:07 TheBlackCat, mrdocs : its a very good idea. We should include it. 14:49:26 Let's see first if we can fix the issues and have the package tested before we include it 14:49:40 TheBlackCat: tonight later on if i can get some time i will branch it and see if i can make it work 14:49:45 tittiathome: yup 14:49:54 tittiathome: we can fix anything unless its legal 14:49:56 :D 14:50:13 :-) Legal can never be fixed. 14:50:15 #action TheBlackCat and mrdocs to work on packaging 14:50:28 It may work if you just build it against KUSC or something, it is currently being build against KDF 14:51:00 TheBlackCat: what about plain factory or 11.4 ? 14:51:27 I'll try, it was being built in my own repo which is normally compiled agains the version of KDE I use 14:51:34 oic 14:51:34 not hard to add, though, I am doing it now 14:52:02 anything else on this ? 14:52:35 unrelated: KDF starting to build 4.7 rc2 now 14:52:41 will fix fallout today & tomorrow 14:52:47 #link http://cakirerk.org/index.php/2011/06/quickformat-an-exciting-removable-disk-formatter-for-pardus/ 14:52:52 one important thing 14:53:12 #topic Changing the desktop theme for the next release 14:53:17 mrdocs: please? :) 14:53:35 #topic Changing the Desktop 14:53:39 #topic Changing the Desktop Theme 14:53:47 gah 14:53:48 I find Aya desktop theme much better than Air one 14:53:55 #topic Changing the Desktop Theme for Next Release 14:54:01 I think it would be a nice refreshment for the 12.1 release 14:54:04 did you guys use it? 14:54:09 I have 14:54:15 its not bad at all 14:54:22 it looks kind of nifty 14:54:27 can't use qtcurve? 14:54:37 cartman: got some screenies so people can see ? 14:54:43 toothpik: I didn't test qtcurve recently 14:54:55 well the best screenie is sliders, one sec. 14:55:00 k 14:55:34 ks 14:55:49 but isn't Aya the old desktoptheme from the first KDE 4.x releases ? 14:56:15 http://susepaste.org/images/44773020.png 14:56:16 if you have time, give qtcurve another look -- it has lots of options and looks good 14:56:19 this is _pretty_ 14:56:24 toothpik: noted down, thanks! 14:57:02 thank you! 14:58:28 So please give Aya a try and also see if qtcurve is good enough :) 14:58:37 A visual refreshment would be nice 14:58:42 * mrdocs nods 14:59:04 QtCurve is really flexible, so we might want to pick a particular style for it 14:59:21 Seems to be quite a few on kde-look.org 14:59:27 ok 14:59:32 Or even make our own 14:59:43 that needs extra manpower :/ 14:59:44 too late now 15:00:26 Ok. Next topic ? 15:00:46 I have one: network management 15:00:48 qtcurve doesnt work well with non qt app here 15:01:07 new crytal windows are nice otherwise .. 15:01:28 msvec__: I've several againt nm/pnm :D 15:01:50 Guys, I have to leave in about 10 minutes :-) 15:01:57 yep 15:02:01 anything else? 15:02:12 I have a few things I would like to discuss, if possible 15:02:28 one more topic 15:02:30 1 15:02:32 I wonder if there is any plan to update nm/pnm any time soon 15:02:44 msvec__: we'll update it to 0.9 branch for Factory 15:02:54 good 15:02:55 11.4 and lower stays as is 15:03:04 its already updated in KUSC 15:03:05 issue online update of pnm? According to [1] the version shipped with 11.4 lacks basic features like clicking on a ssid to create a connection for it. 15:03:09 and K:R:46? 15:03:18 that one is at May 3 state 15:03:28 http://lamarque-lvs.blogspot.com/2011/07/some-clarifications-about-plasma-nm.html 15:03:53 ok we can do an update but 15:03:57 cartman: I would propose to update pnm to the latest status. For Factory we need to use the NM09 branch, but also the master branch contains quite some fixes 15:04:01 Maintainance team will be pissed if it breaks anything 15:04:14 cartman: yeah 15:04:16 cartman: Which maintenance team ? 15:04:19 ok so you all want an update 15:04:26 but if its doable lets at least try 15:04:31 tittiathome: openSUSE maintainance update team? Unless you mean KR46 only 15:04:34 I would say updating K:R:46 would give us at least some testing 15:04:36 then we can do it alone :D 15:04:44 cartman: I would do it in KR46 and KDF 15:04:49 KDE:updateapps can get it as well, right? 15:04:52 alright 15:04:56 noted and will be done 15:05:05 Hopefully shortest, I noticed a lot of new optional KDE dependencies on ffmpeg, apparently dealing with things like thumbnails, media indexing, and other features. Is there any way to get a stripped-down version of it as well? 15:05:10 Forget about updateing the official 11.3/11.4 repo's :-) 15:05:18 tittiathome: alright :) 15:05:23 #action cartman to work on updating pnm for KR46/KDF 15:05:37 #topic misc Q&A 15:05:45 TheBlackCat: would be awesome if you can cripple it 15:05:49 Debian has one afaik 15:05:51 such a tarball 15:06:01 Would it need to be crippled, or would the headers be enough? 15:06:10 cartman: I can help you on that one :-) I have a nice trick that we can use the same source for all the distro versions and still use the NM09 branch for Factory 15:06:21 TheBlackCat: well if the dependency is on headers only yes but I don't think so 15:06:27 Alright 15:06:30 tittiathome: ah I'll bug you, cool! 15:06:46 QZietgiest is also apparently now being used in a few places 15:06:54 TheBlackCat: I don't think you can cripple ffmpeg. openSUSE already has a crippled version that delivers some headers only, but I guess we can forget that KDE will accept it 15:07:20 I'm ok if we can legally work it out 15:07:21 Do you have an OBS link, I can give it a try at least :) 15:07:23 just the headers I mean 15:09:03 well the thing is basically ffmpeg skeleton should be enough for KDE 15:09:27 Well ffmpeg is one big legal issue :-) 15:09:47 heheh 15:10:01 any other questions? 15:10:12 Do you have a link to the opensuse version? 15:10:28 I don't, I'd recommend looking for Debian one 15:10:58 Would QZietgiest be accepted if I packaged that? 15:11:21 I don't really have an opinion, I met with the Zeitgeist developer, nice guy 15:11:27 dunnow how useful it is 15:11:27 There are several packages that can use that now, including phonon. 15:11:49 but since its an optional KDE dependency 15:11:52 OK with me 15:11:57 TheBlackCat: push it to Extras and we can test it 15:11:58 I think it is intended to integrate it more heavily with nepomuk down the road, so it will likely need to be included eventually 15:12:25 Okay, so the last thing I want to talk about is personal settings vs system settings 15:12:36 TheBlackCat: even when busy i am very attentive to SR's 15:12:45 I am a manager on the KDE forums, and I can tell you this causes a huge amount of confusion 15:13:08 TheBlackCat: how so? 15:13:12 I understand the logic, but breaking with upstream on the naming of such a fundamental program really makes it complicated to give people advice 15:13:42 I don't understand the problem ? 15:13:50 Because every other distribution besides openSUSE goes with the upstream name, system settings. When you are trying to tell a user how to configure something, they are not going to be able to find it on openSUSE 15:14:15 cartman: In the SUSE menu's it is called Personal Settings instead of System Settings 15:14:18 TheBlackCat: I don't understand I always launch systemsetting 15:14:45 It is just the naming of the Menu entry :-) 15:14:55 if you use alt-f2 it is systemsettings -- in the menu it's personal 15:14:56 tittiathome: ah ah in french it's translated configuration du système = system settings :-) 15:15:02 The binary name is the same, but the name used by the application search (krunner) and application launcher menu is personal settings 15:15:06 sounds like a good confusio 15:15:08 +n 15:15:28 cartman: You might want to check with wstephenson what the reasoning behind this was. 15:15:41 I know that we had several discussions in the past also around this same topic 15:15:44 our naming is much more logical so I can see the reasoning :D 15:15:49 I think the reasoning was that they are not system settings, they are personal settings 15:15:53 indeed 15:16:02 you don't need root to use it 15:16:08 but you will find also system setting like kdm settings :-) 15:16:24 policykit etc all of them need root :D 15:16:26 There are a lot more system-related settings there now than there were a few releases ago 15:16:59 Have to leave now. Bye 15:17:10 can't just call it Settings? :) 15:17:15 i would think it should require a Really Good Reason to break with upstream 15:17:41 either way, System Settings sounds fine to me, it can cover "personal system system settings" too 15:19:26 good point -- system doesn't exclude personal 15:19:57 The patch is called systemsettings-desktop.diff and it is in kdebase4-workspace 15:20:29 I'll talk to Will but 15:20:38 we need to maintain our backward compat. somehow :( 15:21:13 With the switch to KDE 4.7 and a new openSUSE release, this seems like the best time to change the name 15:22:12 You could always have a second .desktop file pointing to the same application, right? 15:22:18 alright noted 15:22:22 TheBlackCat: yes 15:22:52 Use System Settings as the default one, and bury personal settings in a sub-sub-menu somewhere maybe (or don't put it in the menu at all, if that is possible) 15:23:43 I'll see that, maybe possible via OnlyShowIn 15:25:11 Final question: how are we going to integrate with the new KDE:Apps namespace? Or are we going to integrate at all? 15:25:26 0 idea there 15:25:39 Didn't have any time due to 4.7 work 15:27:00 Alright, at most it would probably go into updateapps or something, which won't be an issue until later anyway 15:27:36 Time to conclude our meeting then? 15:28:31 anything else? 15:28:37 are we going to get rid of susegreeter for 12.1? 15:29:06 oh yeah, good point 15:29:07 javier: why? besides the fact that default font rendering makes it look very bad. 15:29:46 some people have suggested to replace with something easier to update 15:29:51 Doesn't it conflict with the system settings KDM configuration, or is that somethign else? 15:29:59 ie: a special homepage 15:30:17 Completely different topic, NM 15:30:18 we are talking about the welcome greeter right? 15:30:26 yes 15:30:42 I've no strong opinion about it 15:31:01 but this KDM thingy reminds me of a long standing bug (was it about customising KDM?) 15:31:24 one sec 15:31:52 bug 267903 15:31:56 openSUSE bug 267903 in openSUSE 11.4 (KDE4 Workspace) "KDM kcm module conflicts with /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager settings" [Major,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.novell.com/267903 15:32:35 nice 15:32:43 indeed :) 15:33:24 javier: noted down, lets debug a little tomorrow 15:33:26 That is what I thought we were talking about 15:33:29 while waiting for KDF to build 15:33:31 ok 15:33:33 thanks 15:33:56 javier: thanks for raising this... its an annoyance, pisses people off bug 15:34:06 yepp 15:34:13 4 year old too 15:34:15 neat. 15:34:16 and looks like its not a major rework to fix 15:34:17