15:10:56 #startmeeting 15:10:56 Meeting started Thu Feb 10 15:10:56 2011 UTC. The chair is wstephenson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:10:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:11:02 tittiatcoke: buienradar suggests so :) 15:11:17 so whatta we got? 15:11:22 Agenda: 15:11:29 * old action items 15:11:33 * status report 15:11:37 * 11.4 stabilisations 15:11:41 * Q&A, Misc 15:12:05 remur_030: are you ok to do minutes again? 15:12:34 sure 15:13:04 #topic Team meeting - old action items 15:13:11 * wstephenson to contact i18n team with regards to openSUSE guides. 15:13:13 not done 15:13:21 * javier to further explore the live cd listings on kde-apps 15:13:28 done, Beineri gave him the listing account 15:13:30 seems German guides are underway and due 23rd 15:13:38 * all Check kde packagekit frontend http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_11.4_packagekit 15:14:08 pkgkit works fine on two 11.4 systems here 15:14:12 3 actually 15:14:17 different archs 15:14:44 sebas: did you test online updates, app installation, distro upgrade, ...? 15:14:51 I think it misses notifications. 15:15:09 I didn't test distro upgrades, the others work fine 15:15:11 i didn't test it myself, too busy 15:15:12 it's not meant for dup AFAIK 15:15:34 rabauke: not sure notifications are really needed, the icon being visible or not is enough distraction imo 15:15:35 Does it follow vendor settings from zypper, etc ? 15:16:00 and it lacks the option to actually add an online repo 15:16:02 seems so, but I didn't make sure 15:16:06 or at least start the yast module 15:16:26 it's an update notification and installer, not a package manager 15:16:35 so it should be kept small and focused on just that 15:16:42 rabauke: i added that patch, should be in RC1 15:16:51 sebas: the button is already there 15:17:04 the main problem is the zypp backend 15:17:11 which button? 15:17:12 as cb400f has been saying, it's been hacked 15:17:22 at least that is how I understand the developer who wanted to know how to access yast inst_source 15:17:26 ok, then I'm not having the update running maybe, I only have configure 15:17:39 and review, and hide 15:18:12 duncanmv gave me some pointers how to fix it, but i haven't got my hands dirty yet 15:18:14 if there is no icon in the systray if there are no updates available because there is not update repo how does the user find that button? 15:18:31 rabauke: why should there be no update repo? 15:18:52 since it's a mixture of C, boost C++ and libzypp data structures that scare a namby-pamby Qt developer like me. 15:19:07 remur_030: who knows. but kupdateapplet did have it for a reason. 15:20:01 there should be an update repo after a 11.4 GM install/upgrade 15:20:22 anyone else should be able to use yast to configure an update repo 15:20:50 +1, low profile updater should be enough to keep the system uptodate 15:21:49 do you get a notification after a kernel update to reboot? 15:22:19 wstephenson, I have a little bit free time now. We can work together with that (and with duncanmv) 15:22:20 for everyones information, there is an 11.4 test update repo with all the usual classes of updates 15:22:28 anaumov: it's too hard for you. 15:23:20 remur_030, rabauke: did you test it? 15:23:27 I know what happened to me when mum or dad told me "it's too hard for you" :) 15:23:30 IMHO the notifications "you should reboot" etc should not autohide 15:23:44 sebas, :) 15:23:53 no I didn't yet, waiting for 11.4 rc1 to be honest 15:24:01 the "affects package manager" works correctly. same for "reboot needed", i.e. the notification is shown 15:24:31 good. which notifications are missing then? generally 'update available'? 15:25:21 * sebas still thinks that no notification is just fine in this case 15:25:27 it doesn't need direct action 15:25:37 more of a "upgrade when you get some time" thing 15:25:48 wstephenson: first of all the version in 11.4 does not distinguish between security and other updates. and the notification that updates are available is missing as well. 15:25:59 how distinctive is the icon? 15:26:10 it's a greenish smear. not monochrome. 15:26:12 easily recognizable, I find 15:26:31 I do think that notifications must be there because the icon might appear while the user is away and security updates should definitely get the attention and acknowledgement of the user. 15:26:36 * cb400f tends to agree that the icon popping out is enough 15:26:36 sebas: i think security updates should be notified 15:26:48 even more so if the icon is hidden after a while. not sure though if that happens. 15:27:10 wstephenson: I think they should be installed automatically 15:27:17 http://i.imgur.com/G9Dcq.png << icon 15:27:28 oh and I just noticed that there is another icon added to the systray in case a reboot is needed so there is kind of a permanent notification for that case. 15:27:51 cb400f: the icon does not tell you anything regarding the importance of the updates 15:27:58 hm, the icon is passive there? 15:28:09 right yes ... that seems a bug 15:28:42 I'm having a similar bug in lion mail, maybe that's why I didn't notice 15:29:20 #action report bug: update icon is passive when updates are available 15:29:43 would anyone else find a monochrome icon more pleasing? 15:30:07 for reboot? or in general? 15:30:15 wstephenson: whose AI is that? 15:30:20 http://wstaw.org/m/2011/02/10/plasma-desktopYZ2111.jpg shows the second icon 15:30:51 wstephenson: do you mena the icons apper i.e. the next kpackagekit version uses? 15:31:17 rabauke: no, since we're not shipping apper in 11.4 15:31:29 maybe we can steal them from it though, are they nice? 15:31:29 those do distinguish between the different kind of updates but the "security" one is a joke regarding its signal. 15:32:54 colored systray icons are for 'active' processes and monochrome ones for background stuff right? 15:33:21 monochrome for "workspace", colour for "applications" 15:33:30 it depends on whether you want something standing our or not. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=264051 15:33:33 KDE bug 264051 in Oxygen (icons) "kpackagekit/apper needs "alarm" icon" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 15:33:38 remur_030: active icons are the ones in the tray at all times, passive ones are in the extender 15:33:52 ^^there you can see the icons 15:34:14 wstephenson: hm right poor choice of words, I meant it in the spirit of cb400f 15:34:16 https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=56380 15:34:24 direct link to the picture 15:35:07 IMHO security updates need to shout at the user and wait for acknowledgement of their notification. 15:35:20 and what is the gear for? 15:36:11 wstephenson: propably supposed to hint at 'inner workings' of the system 15:36:19 is there a chance we will get something fixed for 11.4 for this? 15:36:46 wstephenson: do you mean new icons? 15:36:55 new icons, changed notifications, etc 15:37:11 I think rabauke is right, persistent notification for security updates (if we can distinguish that), the icons are too tiny to really catch attention anyway 15:37:13 dantii is away since weeks, so I guess not 15:37:45 anyone want to try to patch that into kpackagekit? 15:37:53 guess the kupdateapplet icons could easily be "ported" if we wanted 15:37:55 and I wonder if he will make changes to kpackagekit or that he will implement it in Apper 15:37:56 apper does already have the code 15:37:59 and it works 15:38:06 yet it is not released yet. 15:38:15 i think sebas might have a point but it's too late to rework the update notification UX for 11.4 now 15:38:24 is apper much more than a name change? .. is it fundamentally different? 15:38:30 sorry for my dumb question, but what is apper now? 15:38:45 so i suggest we make it similar to kupdateapplet for now 15:38:48 it's the successor of kpk 15:38:50 ie patch in a notitification 15:38:57 i think it is the next version of kpk + new name 15:39:18 remur_030: Apper is the successor of kpk. 15:39:23 cb400f: the UI is different and it does distinguish bettween the categories of updates. other than that there is not much that can change in such an app. :) 15:39:39 ah ok, so it's mainly rework and rebranding instead of a whole new approach 15:39:48 yes 15:40:12 I feared apper might relate to apt 15:40:16 och no 15:40:28 moving away from packagekit would be a lot of work 15:40:34 I think it does actually since apparently that pk-backend is "the best" 15:40:55 better than yum? .. that would be a laugh :-) 15:41:00 does anyone want to try adding a notification to the 0.6.11 kpackagekit we are shipping? 15:41:48 ok, then let's move on, i'll work on the backend. 15:41:59 #action wstephenson, duncanmv fix packagekit-zypp some more 15:42:12 * all test phonon-gstreamer + pulseaudio combo 15:42:14 I could have a look at the icons from kupdateapplet and see if they could/should replace the kpk ones 15:42:18 #action anaumov study packagekit-zypp 15:42:24 :) 15:42:33 maybe we should put an explanation of the icon into the "hello user" message when starting kde since there is no way the user might guess what the icon stands for 15:42:44 even less so without notifications 15:42:46 cb400f: good suggestion 15:42:52 give it some continuity 15:43:02 #action cb400f patch in icons from kupdateapplet 15:43:16 that would help indeed 15:43:36 so, PA + gstreamer 15:44:27 installing streamer plugins via kpk seems to work on 11.4 but fails on 11.3. 15:44:51 the shortages regarding fading and euqalizer have been mentioned already 15:45:17 i have some bugs: 668757, and i can't find the other one atm 15:45:21 openSUSE bug 668757 in openSUSE 11.4 (KDE4 Applications) "invalid sound card (HDMI output) selected by default by Kmix" [Major,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.novell.com/668757 15:45:28 reporter claimed that amarok and firefox together blocked sound 15:46:22 there were some complaints on -factory ml too about borked sound.. do we know the week points of PA? .. Flash? skype? other stuff? 15:46:23 i have no problems, but then i have boring intel systems 15:46:34 wstephenson: you sure that's the right report? 15:46:48 I guess I fall into the same category :-) Boring lenovo lappie 15:47:17 flash and skype should be ok 15:47:21 actually I think they said most problems were with intel hda... but it seems to work for me too 15:47:40 remur_030: no, but i can't find actual BRs for the other ones 15:47:50 cb400f: flash and skype always were the problem for me with pulseaudio, once firefox flash took alsa nothing else could use sound anymore 15:47:52 "[opensuse-factory] 11.4 M6" from De Donn Washburn etc 15:48:21 but washburn has problems with _everything_ ... _always_ 15:48:33 if something else had sound before they worked, but I am unsure who was to blame here 15:48:33 yes 15:48:47 i need to talk to saschpe about it too, he has problems, is sane, and down the hall. 15:50:14 ok, nothing much else to discuss 15:50:24 * wstephenson make phonon 4.4.4 pkgs 15:50:26 done 15:50:41 * discussion on repo naming etc to deferred to next meeting 15:50:49 rabauke: this was yours from last meeting 15:51:06 did you mean rename the actual repos or just improve their descriptions and wiki help? 15:51:20 please let it be the latter, renaming causes mass indigestion 15:51:38 wstephenson: sorry, I've been really busy and haven't yet found the time to look into it 15:51:45 saschpe: same here 15:52:03 (for "your problem" == it) 15:52:58 wstephenson: btw. maybe it's not entirely pulse's (or kde's pulse integration) fault, I've had issues with only alsa. However. they went away after a reboot. rather strange it is 15:53:27 ok, we're not going into it in detail now either 15:53:44 * wstephenson shakes rabauke 15:54:08 wstephenson: we can keep it as discussion point for later and move on for now I guess 15:54:14 ok 15:54:17 remur_030: you have the floor 15:54:24 Huh? 15:54:27 #topic Team meeting - 11.4 stabilization 15:54:36 ah, not status before? 15:54:46 bah :) 15:54:50 #topic Team meeting - status 15:55:40 * wstephenson 's status: Fosdem, cleaned up UI jargon strings upstream, started looking at gross memory leaks too. 15:55:50 11.4rc1 wwith kde4.6.0 going out right? 15:56:00 it's out 15:56:27 last week: 11.4RC1 submissions, sometime several times over because the factory reviewers have become militant about changelog entries 15:56:40 * tittiatcoke status: Updates Unstable based on the KDE packages that moved to GIT 15:57:31 also: obexd updated, bluedevil obsoletes kbluetooth correctly now, packaged kamoso and qt-gstreamer for fun, fixed akonadi autostart when clock events are not shown. 15:57:39 anyone tested that in RC1 yet? 15:58:08 * cb400f just dupped during the meeting 15:58:09 wstephenson: sorry, was away. 15:58:30 rabauke: ok, we're coming back to that after status and 11.4 stabilisation efforts 15:58:33 I'm constantly dupping. 15:58:37 * wstephenson tested it now 15:58:37 hmm.. obexd not in default install :-( 15:59:11 did dup fail or did the patterns? .. not 100% sure the snapshot repo is up to date though.. only updated ~300 packages 15:59:15 or the deps 15:59:15 maybe we should call Apper Duppy if we don't get the backend fixed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duppy 15:59:58 :-) 15:59:58 "malevolent ghost or spirit that zypper dup's your system without being asked to" 16:00:06 cb400f: I had the same suspission but my release files states RC1 16:00:31 bluedevil 10.2-1.1 doesn't seem to have requires obexd 16:00:37 1.0.2 16:00:54 cb400f: yeah that's on my todo 16:01:22 gah.. and obexd still wants evolution-data-server 16:01:39 cb400f: ah but look what's in the obexd package :) 16:01:55 nothing important. 16:02:10 so bluedevil will pull in obex-client and obex-data server 16:02:20 ah :-) 16:02:20 and the gnomes will udpate obexd and get those too 16:02:32 * cb400f tells zypper to abort 16:02:48 i actually spent time testing 11.3 gnome update, during fosdem. 16:02:54 "OK OK! Exiting immediately..." ;-) 16:03:18 wstephenson: do they do a good job at it? 16:03:26 cb400f: could you add an impa account to your 11.4 and test? 16:03:38 remur_030: well the obexd bit works 16:04:18 cb400f: regarding that kontact crash 16:04:32 rabauke: hm? I use imap on 11.3 kdf, should this be any different? 16:04:38 rabauke: already have.. also already rebooted.. no crash 16:04:53 then why can I reproduce with a livecd? 16:05:01 build 1034, which I believe you tested with is old anyway 16:05:05 rc1 is 1056 afaik 16:05:16 cb400f: I disabled planner and special dates 16:05:45 and I took the live cd the download section gave me. 16:06:02 hrm.. obexd-client want to pull obexd ... which pulls half of gnome 16:06:42 I'll download the 1056 and try again 16:06:47 rabauke: you can't trust the download section, use: http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/ 16:06:57 download section pushes ms6 16:07:04 but since I can reproduce it with kdf on 11.3 it should still be valid 16:07:09 not the daily rebuilds 16:07:30 remur_030: should be the same 16:07:40 rabauke: bugid? 16:08:06 cb400f: grumble, ok, i should have tested kde upgrade too 16:08:33 any more status? 16:08:52 nope 16:09:00 can you poke dirk with https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656144 16:09:04 openSUSE bug 656144 in openSUSE 11.4 (X11 Applications) "Root user Qt4 applications not using Oxygen-style by default" [Minor,Reopened] 16:09:13 or can/should someone else handle it? 16:09:44 http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en now pushes RC1 btw 16:09:54 one guy even thought he was getting yast-gtk because of the sad qt widget style on yast :-) 16:09:56 cb400f: dirk is on holiday this week. 16:11:37 cb400f: Is it properly fixed when setting the correct style with qtconfig ? 16:11:41 we configured qt to use !oxygen a while back because oxygen was doing some stupid stuff over dbus that caused apps to block 16:11:56 tittiatcoke: using "desktop settings" in qtconfig should work, but it doesn't 16:12:10 setting "oxygen" in qtconfig works, but that's not correct.. that's a hack 16:12:31 cb400f: Maybe it is the issue that wstephenson is indicating. 16:12:40 why became window deco that powerful? 16:12:48 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514056 16:12:52 openSUSE bug 514056 in openSUSE 11.2 (KDE4 Applications) "dbus hangs when kfmclient is run by root" [Normal,Closed: upstream] 16:13:07 wstephenson: I guess it is a patch to Qt ? 16:13:08 remur_030: you mean widget style 16:13:29 wstephenson: right 16:14:53 ok, that looks unfixed 16:15:13 cb400f: and we have to live with 656144 until it is 16:16:08 :-( .. too bad.. that'll be an FAQ in #suse 16:16:37 hmm.. my imap test account subscribed to opensuse@ tells me that a guy from the lug is posting there :-) 16:16:47 #topic Team meeting - 11.4 stabilization 16:16:57 since this is what we've been discussing anyway 16:17:31 yeah, rabauke pointed out the nvidia bug yesterday and I was kinda shocked how many user are affected and how many dupes there were 16:18:20 oh, yeah.. we should try to verify on 11.4... and force sndirsch to make 256.x.x.x for 11.4 if it happens there too 16:18:24 so i hoped earlier in the release cycle that we would get 4.6.1 out in time for 11.4 but it's scheduled for feb 28th, which is just too risky for 11.4 GM on March 11 16:18:34 meanwhile cb400f pointed out that we have alot of users not running bare opensuse anymore but spiced up with other repos, add tumbleweed and evergreen to the mix we lack people running plain opensuse 16:19:13 remur_030: conclusion, not enough plain 11.4 testing from those able to do good testing? 16:19:18 cb400f: someone already said it happens on M6 as well =/ 16:19:50 wstephenson: yeah, I know I failed at that too 16:20:00 I plan to try over the weekend... if I can get the crap blob to compile... often a problem on the milestones etc. 16:20:04 at least with kr46 kde gets a lot of testers 16:20:22 also testing alone isn't enough, on the nvidia bug we had a lot of people reporting this 16:20:44 well admittedly at least to me it looked like the usual nvidia vs plasma case 16:21:07 most people in here running 64bit propably doesn't help either =/ 16:21:13 yep. what i'd like to do is establish if it's unique to opensuse 16:21:20 anyone know? 16:21:32 wstephenson: the kde bug report is long and there was not a single non-suse report 16:21:39 +1 16:21:57 we should find out what nvidia version is pushed by kubutno 16:22:11 wouldn't surprise me one bit if all of those suckers are using oooold nvidia 16:22:35 there will surely be people building their nvidia drivers so they would have got it as well even if the official kubuntu driver was older 16:22:35 cb400f: i know similar stuff happened before, but atleast arch or fedora users should have chipped in on it 16:22:52 plus kubuntu users propably have nvidia repos as well 16:23:07 yep, not a single non-opensuse user in >100 comments 16:23:19 but how can it be suse specific and happen on 11.3 and 11.4 with various different kernels etc. 16:23:22 :-( 16:23:38 if it walsk like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, chances are it is a duck. 16:23:59 s/duck/lizard 16:24:02 cb400f: i guess it's some patch somewhere to a shared library that has a rarely used codepatch before 4.5 16:24:10 and how to tell which part of the duck is sick? our xorg, our gcc? 16:24:13 sadly people didn't check the vanilla kernel... 16:24:29 s/codepatch/codepath 16:24:35 this is one of those times when i wished i had llunak around 16:24:39 wstephenson: that's the hard part, but it's still an opensuse issue. 16:25:56 how good is nouveau on 11.4? ;-) 16:26:18 cb400f: propably still not good enough power managment for mobile chips =( 16:26:29 however good it is, people will still use nvidia. 16:27:00 yep, if only because they have a newer card and do not use tumbleweed to get an updated vouveau 16:27:37 wstephenson: would there be someone around at suse who might be better assigned this task? 16:27:41 on tumbleweed they'd have to (re)build the driver constantly 16:27:58 so they'll prolly just use nouveau 16:27:59 llunak: ping 16:28:01 as you said it could be anywhere 16:28:23 they would always get the latest nouveau and thus not need nvidia (if nouveau would be any good) 16:28:24 wstephenson: what is the bugno? 16:28:30 sndirsch is the obvious guy but he's so loaded he's flinging anything with "kde" in the subject at me, irrespective of severity 16:28:46 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=648718 16:28:51 openSUSE bug 648718 in openSUSE 11.3 (KDE4 Workspace) "plasma-desktop crashes with lastes nvidia driver 260.19.12" [Critical,Assigned] 16:28:54 llunak ^ 16:29:37 llunak: the problem is it's only kde, and only opensuse 16:29:51 so upstream and xorg both say it's someone else's fault 16:29:58 it happens with vbox too 16:30:02 and only 32bit systems 16:30:19 cb400f: vbox + nvidia + virtual 3d hardware? 16:30:20 vbox, amarok, and plasma (digital clock) 16:30:22 but you can avoid it by running the app with strace … 16:30:24 or any vbox? 16:30:29 wstephenson: no the vbox gui 16:30:37 ah right 16:30:37 I think it's related to the qt ui 16:30:58 rabauke: propably strace resets some bogus flags 16:31:38 as I understand it people get that "floating point exception" error when just trying to launch the vbox qt ui 16:33:15 what else is a hot 11.4 problem right now? 16:33:19 rabauke: second reboot.. still don't get the kontact crash... instead it's fscking up with kwallet access 16:33:22 i think pim and akonadi and nepomuk are ok 16:33:41 cb400f: did you logout with kmail "open" 16:33:42 although i've seen kwallet access warnings that cb400f mentions 16:33:42 .. and akonadi self test 16:33:53 i opened a bug for akonadi self test 16:34:06 cb400f: that's the "bug in old log" self test warning? 16:34:11 wstephenson: powermanagmeent on desktops 16:34:15 rabauke: yep.. same system, and same setup as before when I had the problem.. only a dup is the difference 16:34:31 wstephenson: yup, looks like it 16:34:42 we should prolly just have stuck with pim4.4.9 :-) 16:34:59 and there is still that bug that "performance" on notebooks does not set brightness to 100% 16:35:12 4.4.10 seems to be a trick to force people to move to pim4.6 faster >:-) 16:35:32 rabauke: what about PM on desktops? suspending after 99 minutes? 16:35:35 "recently installed apps" missing from kmenu 16:35:59 wstephenson: suspending the display after 10 minutes. fixed for 4.6.1 16:36:29 rabauke: Maybe that can be backported to 4.6.0 ? If we find the correct patch 16:36:39 the digi clock still shows no shadow for the date although sebas supposedly fixed that upstream 16:37:12 rabauke: Hm, maybe I forgot that ... I'll check and seek to get it into 4.6.1 16:37:33 tittiatcoke: I have the bugnumer on my other computer so I can "add" it to the meeting minutes on the ml 16:37:49 rabauke: Yes, please. Then I will check and see if I can get it into the packages 16:38:23 it also seems that opensuse patches the battery plasmoid and shows unreadable fonts for the percentage which is displayed on the battery icon. according to sebas that percentage does not exist in upstream kde 16:38:29 tittiatcoke: will do 16:38:46 * sebas checks again :) 16:39:14 rabauke: it does exist, but works fine here 16:39:28 it's an upstream bug though, and it's not 100% fixable 16:39:51 http://wstaw.org/m/2011/02/10/plasma-desktopCs2111.jpg 16:39:55 we're bound by smallest readable font setting on one hand and size of the battery one the other, both we have no control over 16:40:03 sebas: ^^ try to find the percentag on the battery icon :) 16:40:12 huh, never noticed that overlay on the battery icon 16:40:13 it's a matter of colour 16:40:33 grr.. getting phonon errors now too.. "blah blah not working, falling back to default" 16:40:46 oow, that one ... that's a problem with an upstream patch 16:40:51 cb400f: I get that with any but the xine backend as soon as I start amarok 16:41:05 * cb400f 's kneejerk reaction is to blame fdo and gstreamer 16:41:10 it's not there in my trunk build, and it shouldn't since it duplicates already shown information 16:41:13 ok, so it's upstream and I have to reopen those bugs? 16:41:19 I got it now on login for a fresh user on rc1 16:41:27 oh, not upstream 16:41:36 rabauke: only the digiclock shadow 16:41:51 but it's on my kanban list now, so more likely to get picked up than just bugzilla :) 16:41:55 whereever it comes from it should either be removed or fixed to show the "normal" text colour 16:42:07 and some error about saving bookmarks to user-places.xbel 16:42:20 the battery is bugfree (tm), the patch should probably just be dropped 16:42:37 rabauke: removed, it's completely unnecessary 16:42:39 does the upstream battery feature the "time remaining"? 16:42:44 percentage is readable right next to it 16:42:54 yes, but only after fiddling with the config 16:43:05 no ui for that 16:43:06 ok 16:43:25 so opensuse enables that by default and IMHO that should stay 16:43:47 fine with me 16:43:55 * sebas has it on as well 16:43:58 hmm sorry if I interrupt, but this is adressing single bugs, not even pretty big ones, could we do something to get better testing with opensuse 11.4? 16:44:31 remur_030: please 16:44:35 remur_030: what do you suggest? 16:44:37 in general that is? I know we used to do bug squashing sessions, they seem to be out of fashion now, no idea if for a good reason or not 16:45:17 they should be after the release or at some other time.. not 3 weeks before GM is declared 16:45:22 it's obvious there are people reporting bugs on bnc, but most just fix on their single bug and don't help on other ones 16:46:04 I think it will be hard to get more 11.4 testers but kde does get a fair amount of testers via kdf and kr46. 16:46:19 how about divide and conquer? we start handling incoming bugs according to area (pim, mobile, workspace, ...) 16:46:31 a shitload of people will install rc1... whether they can be considered testers or not is a different matter 16:46:38 and by handle i mean good triage, and checking branch for fixes 16:46:43 wstephenson: the bug looks like a toolchain problem ... or at least they are the ones to have a look at it and figure something out 16:47:32 llunak: ok, so if i can get matz or richi to look at an nvidia machine exhibiting the bug you think they'll have enough to go on? 16:48:24 others: thoughts? 16:48:51 right now i feel like i'm the little dutch boy running round putting his finger in whichever leak shouts loudest atm 16:49:01 wstephenson: the single teams won't have more people all of a sudden, but I guess grouping by certain expertise is a good idea 16:49:33 wstephenson: =/ we can't fix most stuff ourself 16:49:41 * tittiatcoke lends his fingers to wstephenson in order to close more holes 16:50:32 remur_030: even if we can get timely triage on incoming bugs, that saves me some time that i can spend on fixing them 16:50:53 wstephenson: the more I think about your idea the more I like it, the usual bugsquashing method was going through all the kde bugs without any certain grouping, so you parctically had to find new information any time 16:50:58 what about a kde bug mailinglist? 16:51:01 I don't know if this would help, but I could validate bugs if they have been solved upstream 16:51:03 there are indeed many holes :-( ... too many late changes.. pim.. phonon.. pulse.. bluedevil... etc. 16:51:08 * cb400f has to leave 16:51:23 chances are if you do 20 strigi bugs in a row you might have an idea where to look at it 16:51:59 rabauke: I don't think we'd scare people off using opensuse-kde for bugs as well 16:52:03 and i don't think it would be that hard, we don't have 20 strigi bugs yet 16:52:15 wstephenson: I have commented in the bugreport and yes, I think the best chance (and possibly only one) is to walk up personally to somebody who knows the dynamic loader and annoy them until they have a look 16:52:27 people randomly dump there bugreports at -kde already 16:52:30 llunak: ok, thanks for looking 16:52:54 remur_030: not sure but if I would get new bugs as email it would be easier to check for things I can try out. 16:53:33 rabauke: ? that is already possible, watch kde-maintainers@suse.de 16:53:36 or just having a stored bugzilla query to run every day 16:54:17 remur_030: ok, then I'll try that one. 16:54:36 ok, i have to leave at 1800 too 16:54:39 there was actually a good wiki for that written by llunak for the bugsqash events I think 16:54:53 what else? 16:55:31 rabauke: I'll look for it later 16:55:40 nothing I guess for now =/ 16:55:41 my issue with the community repos can wait 16:55:44 remur_030: do you want to take the AI to identify areas to assign to people for timely triage? 16:55:46 wstephenson: I guess nothing for now 16:56:02 wstephenson: yes I'll make a mail to discuss it further on the ml 16:56:22 OTOMH i would say pim, workspace, defaults, random-apps 16:56:55