18:00:52 <wstephenson> #startmeeting
18:00:52 <bugbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 12 18:00:52 2011 UTC.  The chair is wstephenson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:52 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:24 <wstephenson> #action tigerfoot think about how to execute next release cycle better (calendar, task allocation)
18:01:51 <wstephenson> #action tittiatcoke think about how to execute next release cycle better (calendar, task allocation)
18:02:00 <wstephenson> ok to move on?
18:02:12 <tigerfoot> yeap
18:02:22 <wstephenson> * repo planning
18:02:26 <wstephenson> afaik this is 2 things:
18:02:39 <wstephenson> kdepim46 going forward and KR46 needed or not
18:03:10 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: are you ok to maintain kdepim46 until there is a release?
18:03:13 <cb400f> do we expect KDF to go to 4.7 beta?
18:03:14 <tittiatcoke> Wouldn't KR46 replace KR45 ?
18:03:31 <tigerfoot> wstephenson: kr46 is in fact distro/stable after 11.4 release ?
18:03:32 <Linuxsusefan> KR46
18:03:42 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Yes. I am fine with it. It is running with the OBS _services, so it is just pressing a button to update :-)
18:03:47 <remur_030> tigerfoot: +1, do we really need all the leaf updates?
18:03:55 <rabauke> people will call for KR46 as soon as there is a new minor release
18:03:56 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: yes, subject to javier's open-pc needs
18:04:04 <remur_030> this is up to javier though
18:04:22 <tittiatcoke> open-pc needs ?
18:04:23 <cb400f> tigerfoot: no, stable will be 4.6.1 or so.. the version whores will cry and yell if they can't get 4.6.2/3/4 etc., so they can complain again about the regressions
18:04:24 <rabauke> and IMHO it's better to keep KR45 users out of KDF unless os 11.5 will feature KDE 4.6
18:04:34 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: open-pc uses a KR45 based repo
18:04:39 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Aha. Ok
18:05:02 <remur_030> wstephenson: just pushing the 4.5.x updates into the usual update stream still is a no go?
18:05:11 <javier> all people are talking to me at the same time
18:05:24 <wstephenson> remur_030: theoretically  maintenance is open to it
18:05:36 <wstephenson> but it would be painful for people on slow connections
18:05:38 <javier> I think KR46 would be good until we have 11.4
18:05:43 <cb400f> whut? releasing 4.5 as an official update to 11.3?
18:05:47 <rabauke> wstephenson: and it would cause plasma issues
18:06:05 <remur_030> wstephenson: that'd be an update after every month, but right =/
18:06:05 <tittiatcoke> I guess here tumbleweed would help :-)
18:06:12 <wstephenson> and making it optional would be messy, we'd end up asking "are you using 4.6.1 or 4.6.x"?
18:06:16 <rabauke> wstephenson: that's another issue to make sure for 11.4, update causing plasma to crash because of 4.4 config files.
18:06:26 <remur_030> cb400f: whops I meant 4.6.x ...
18:06:27 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: yes, tumbleweed's job sort of
18:06:36 <wstephenson> rabauke: not on my radar, is there a BR for it?
18:06:57 <cb400f> I protest in the strongest terms against burdening people with minor upgrades full of regressions
18:07:01 <rabauke> wstephenson: I always tell people to back up their crashing configs and submit them. not sure if they do
18:07:19 <wstephenson> cb400f: so against a KR46?
18:07:25 <remur_030> cb400f: it's supposed to be only fixes, no idea if kde upstream really limits itself to that though =/
18:07:30 <cb400f> as official update, most certainly
18:07:31 <javier> wstephenson: tittiatcoke: replacing KR45 with KR46 is OK for me as long as upgrade from 4.5.x to 4.6.x go OK
18:07:32 <wstephenson> cb400f: people who want 4.6 should use KDF then?
18:07:49 <wstephenson> javier: what would you do for open-pc then?
18:07:51 <cb400f> if someone wants to maintain it, and someone adds it as unsupported repo, that's a different matter
18:08:17 <wstephenson> cb400f: i tend to agree, we make it easy enough to keep up with OBS repos
18:08:33 <cb400f> but yeah, unless KDF goes to 4.7 beta I don't see much reason for KR4.6
18:09:00 <javier> wstephenson: we aren't using KR45 directly, remember? Well, I would test 4.6.x first and see how it goes
18:09:00 <rabauke> I do, because people should not KDF if they do not want to test.
18:09:02 <tigerfoot> +1 for cb400f
18:09:08 <remur_030> cb400f: 4.7beta should be about 4.6.4, people will miss out on 4.6.5
18:09:30 <remur_030> about the same time as 4.6.4
18:09:57 <rabauke> KDF should not be advertised but for testers IMO. KRx is where people who just want to update should be directed. That way they are in charge of version changes, i.e. they have to change the repo.
18:10:09 <cb400f> more importantly they'd be moved to beta ... most of them completely unprepared
18:10:28 <cb400f> but if KDF stays on 4.6 until 4.7 final, then it's a different matter
18:10:39 <wstephenson> i do think KR45 has been a success in insulating ppl from sudden betas
18:10:52 <rabauke> and KR46 would be consistent with the existence of KR45. People get confused if 4.5 is in KR45 but 4.6 will be in KDf and 4.7 maybe again in KR47 etc.
18:10:54 <cb400f> but I'm not sure what we want to do.. I guess 4.7 comes in july... 11.5 will be out in mid november
18:11:03 <wstephenson> we did get a few people complaining in surprise when 4.6 landed in KDF, but fewer than before
18:11:05 <rabauke> just add a new KRx repo for every version and everybody is happy
18:11:25 <cb400f> rabauke: they always get confused.. they also get confused if KDF and KR46 both have the same version
18:11:28 <rabauke> wstephenson: yes, because most use KR45
18:11:54 <cb400f> and they'll get even more confused if we did KR45, KR46 and don't do KR47
18:11:56 <javier> yes, too many repos perhaps?
18:12:02 <rabauke> cb400f: I don't think so since they can follow the same naming and KR45 -> KR46 is more obvious than KDF ever will be.
18:12:04 * dev001 mumbles ... there are those of us who focus strongly on production-ready, NOT always the bleeding-edge of Factory ... the KR45 repos have been HUGELY valued!!
18:12:22 <rabauke> cb400f: that's why there should be a KR47 if KDE 4.7 is released
18:12:44 <cb400f> you want production ready.. use tested, supported stuff in the distro
18:12:54 <rabauke> It's just consistent to supply KRx repos for every KDE version.
18:13:09 <cb400f> KR45 has caused people a lot of problems with plasma nvidia crashes, and other smaller or bigger hickups
18:13:11 <dev001> cb400f: itired old discussion.  i  would if 'distro' had what was needed.
18:13:15 <wstephenson> cb400f: and as another data point compared to opensuse-gnome we're doing a fantastic job of offering multiple KDE versions for multiple opensuse releases.
18:13:22 <Linuxsusefan> rabauke: +1
18:13:26 <rabauke> cb400f: and how would that have changed if kr45 was kdf?
18:13:28 <javier> maybe we could rename KR45 to something else that doesn't need to have its name changed when a new kde version arrives
18:13:58 <cb400f> rabauke: it's also a lot of work, and a distraction from KDF.. less people on KDF.. less testing for opensuse+1
18:14:05 <rabauke> javier: why? the name mediates the content, that's perfect and exactly what kdf does not do
18:14:19 <cb400f> and a support mess with a friggin load of different repos with more or less the same versions
18:14:26 <rabauke> less people on kdf is good, because we do not want "casual" kdf users IMHO
18:14:41 <cb400f> casual users don't use kr45 either
18:14:53 <rabauke> IMHO KR45 was a huge success and thus this kind of naming and repo should continue.
18:15:03 <rabauke> they do
18:15:03 <javier> rabauke: to have less repo... it would be less confusing I think.... KR45, KR46, ...
18:15:23 <cb400f> let's look at the numbers again.. ~250.000 people using OSS... maybe 20k, or 30k using the very most popular OBS repos
18:15:51 <wstephenson> coolo: got your OBS repo usage stats handy?
18:16:18 <dev001> rabauke +1.  *all* our users are on KR45 --  casual & otherwise
18:16:28 <rabauke> javier: if the repo name is mediating the content the number of repos does not confuse users. everybody knows that kr45 is kde 4.5 and if he wants kde 4.6 guess which repo he will look for.
18:16:39 <cb400f> most casual users can't even figure out how to add kde:updatedapps and kde:extra in community repos list
18:16:48 <cb400f> those repos are not even among the most popular
18:16:58 <rabauke> confusing is to have to change from KR to KD and back again, not from KRx to KRy
18:16:59 <javier> rabauke: I agree on that
18:17:25 <javier> rabauke: maybe we could have KR4x on the repo community list
18:17:30 <rabauke> cb400f: kr45 is less popular than kdf?
18:17:41 <rabauke> javier: that would be nice indeed
18:18:14 <cb400f> I don't think coolo released stats that recent.. but I wouldn't be surprised if it is
18:18:19 <rabauke> so over time more and more people will learn that KDE x.y is in KRxy which is straight forward and easy to remember.
18:19:00 <cb400f> which means, more work for us, and less people testing Factory KDE
18:19:08 <tigerfoot> especially if we communicate about that.
18:19:09 <cb400f> all in all, poorer opensuse releases
18:19:29 <wstephenson> i see your point
18:19:39 <rabauke> people using kr45 do not submit bugs.
18:19:49 <javier> rabauke: not true
18:19:50 <rabauke> testers use kdf
18:19:53 <wstephenson> but i'm not sure that it's due to KR45 taking testers away from KDF
18:19:55 <tigerfoot> cb400f: when it crash under KDF the bug goes upstream not Novell
18:20:03 <rabauke> javier: bnc or bko bugs?
18:20:08 <javier> bnc
18:20:14 <wstephenson> and IIRC KDF is *the* most popular OBS repo by quite a long shot
18:20:17 <rabauke> ok.
18:20:19 <wstephenson> s/shot/way/
18:20:42 <javier> cool :-)
18:21:06 <rabauke> Given that there are people who maintain KRxy I think it is the most obvious and thus best naming scheme and should be kept for all KDE releases.
18:21:10 <cb400f> tigerfoot: it's not just about crashes.. and drkonqi is not the only way to report bugs you know
18:21:23 <rabauke> wstephenson: how would that be if there was a KR46 repo?
18:21:29 <tigerfoot> cb400f: unfortunately I know that :-)
18:21:29 <cb400f> it's also about getting the right stuff in.. default configuration... packaging errors etc.
18:21:34 <dev001> " people using kr45 do not submit bugs"  ... um, srsly?  not.
18:21:47 <rabauke> dev001: I meant bnc bugs
18:21:52 <krop> upstream gets reports from all kinds of repo
18:22:04 <dev001> bnc being @novell?
18:22:08 <krop> (we even get some KDE 4.3.x reports)
18:22:11 <rabauke> exactly, but kdf is for novell bugs.
18:22:15 <rabauke> dev001: yes
18:22:22 <ctrippe> javier: but the number of bnc bugs is ~10 to 1 for KDF to K45
18:22:33 <javier> ctrippe: right
18:22:42 <cb400f> I wonder if we would do upstream a favour by disabling drkonqi for certain repos :-)
18:22:58 <javier> so, what to do?
18:23:05 <dev001> rabauke: still, disagree. we use KR45 extensively.  bugs are filed typically FIRST @ novell, and we come to opensuse* irc to annoy people -- first.  it's "our" distro.  that's where we focus resources -- first.
18:23:11 <rabauke> is there somebody willing to maintain KR46?
18:23:12 <javier> is KR45 stealing potential KDF testers?
18:23:18 <wstephenson> dev001: bko=bugs.kde.org, bnc=bugzilla.novell.com
18:23:18 <javier> rabauke: o/
18:23:19 <krop> cb400f: upstream refuses bugs from outdated versions already
18:23:25 <dev001> wstephenson: ah, thx
18:23:42 <cb400f> ah, good
18:23:44 <rabauke> dev001: since KR45 is not a suse release bugs at novell often don't make sense though
18:24:26 <rabauke> reporting bugs from kdf at bnc does make most sense.
18:24:46 <rabauke> If there is nobody willing to maintain a KR46 the question whether to create it is useless anyway.
18:24:58 <wstephenson> folks, we're heading up on the hour mark and we have a lot more ground to cover. what's the best way to proceed on this topic?
18:25:00 <dev001> rabauke: may be factually the case.  but, imo & experience, KR45 *is* our 'release' -- distro is simply not an option for us.  as for @novell bug-reporting, and related #irc, it's where the expertise/interest lie.  mostly ...
18:25:01 <javier> btw, ctrippe thanks for the bug triaging stuff you're doing for KR45
18:25:03 <javier> :)
18:25:28 <javier> rabauke: I am willing to help maintaining that repo
18:25:36 <ctrippe> javier: welcome
18:25:58 <rabauke> javier: since you do KR45 you can judge the workload. is it doable?
18:26:02 <cb400f> maybe kr46 could just be links from KDF.. like kr45 was before KDF went 4.6beta
18:26:22 <rabauke> and of what use is kdf to 4.6 anyway after 11.4 got released?
18:26:28 <javier> rabauke: yes, it is. i am not the only person maintaining it
18:27:21 <javier> dirk has uploaded tarballs to KR45, others have sr'ed new versions of some packages, ...
18:27:49 <javier> and now dirk is testing tarballs in KR45 instead of home:dirkmueller:KDExy
18:28:08 <rabauke> shall we jsut do a vote on whether kr46 seems sensible to each one of us?
18:28:28 <javier> my main concern is "stealing KDF testers"
18:28:38 <wstephenson> rabauke: i think that's premature
18:28:45 <rabauke> kdf is finished as soon as 11.4 is released
18:28:46 <javier> including myself... I am not using KDF because I am maintaining KR45
18:28:50 <remur_030> rabauke: it's javiers baby, I don't think we can tell him what to do
18:28:56 <wstephenson> let's list the issues and discuss it on list?
18:28:57 <cb400f> nope, then kdf becomes 11.5
18:29:04 <wstephenson> * stealing KDF testers
18:29:09 <wstephenson> * consuming team time
18:29:14 <cb400f> it's not like kdf will lie idle for 4 months
18:29:27 <rabauke> 11.5 is far away and will not feature whatever will be in kdf after 11.4 got released.
18:29:27 <wstephenson> * easily identifiable for version whores
18:29:27 <javier> maybe we could have a discussion on opensuse-kde ml?
18:29:36 <javier> about this KR46
18:29:58 <rabauke> 11.5 will hopefully feature KDE 4.7 :)
18:30:00 <Linuxsusefan> rabauke: if the user does not have more in the repo to be confused jungle, it makes sense to build next to the kr45 KR46 ... otherwise look that is no longer a man who when to have kde4.x how and where
18:30:19 <rabauke> Linuxsusefan: I agree
18:30:30 <cb400f> rabauke: KDF will be updated with every release inbetween.. as has always been the case
18:30:43 <cb400f> only question is if it will go to 4.7beta or wait for 4.7final
18:30:59 <cb400f> and of course kdf will also be used to update all the apps, and link them to kde:updatedapps
18:31:07 <rabauke> cb400f: if peope want to help 11.4 and hence that KDE version, they should use STABLE thouhg
18:31:24 <rabauke> so kdf steals STABLE tester! ;)
18:31:36 <Linuxsusefan> rabauke:I take care of the German wiki page kde, how can you explain that to the users what is contained where. is already difficult enough
18:31:53 <cb400f> if 11.4 was properly tested we wouldn't need to fix it afterwards
18:32:05 <rabauke> Linuxsusefan: I know. the whole "factory" term is confusing.
18:32:30 <rabauke> cb400f: if that was true 11.2 was properly tested because there was no KR45
18:32:49 <cb400f> Linuxsusefan: do you know the kde_repositories wiki page?
18:33:27 <Linuxsusefan> cb400f: yes, the german wikipage of kde
18:34:19 <wstephenson> so
18:34:26 <wstephenson> time to move this to the list :)
18:34:27 <tigerfoot> next topic
18:34:32 <rabauke> the nice thing about KRxy is that there is no need for a wiki explanation since everybody who knows that KR45 contains KDE 4.5 will easily know where to get KDe 4.6
18:34:49 <wstephenson> *  tapping and Synaptiks - enable it and fix broken X default? (cb400f)
18:34:59 <cb400f> the list won't help... question is who will maintain it, who will support the users.. and what are the plans for KDF wrt. 4.7beta
18:35:12 <cb400f> ok, then
18:35:19 <wstephenson> cb400f: right, but we aren't coming to a decision here and we have other things to handle more urgently
18:35:20 <rabauke> if they are ok with it, the same people that do things for KR45
18:35:47 * rabauke is all for changing X defaults regarding tapping!
18:35:48 <cb400f> since 11.3 Xorg ships with tapping disabled cuz apparently this suits gnomers, this makes kde users annoyed, and makes them think their touchpad is not supported by suse
18:36:14 <rabauke> very annoying for users who do not have a clue where to search for it.
18:36:30 <tittiatcoke> Is this a configuration setting or ..  ?
18:36:31 <cb400f> so I'm wondering if we couldn't/shouldn't fix this problem via synaptiks default settings
18:36:39 <rabauke> tittiatcoke: yes
18:36:53 <wstephenson> cb400f: have you got a url for the "suits gnomers" bit?
18:36:56 <rabauke> synaptiks sticks to X's defaults
18:37:01 <cb400f> here's a mailing list link http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2010-06/msg00256.html|Touchpad
18:37:35 <cb400f> there's also a bugreport somewhere... with some heated discussions
18:37:39 <wstephenson> ok. i'm in favour of enabling it
18:37:54 <wstephenson> although one of my laptops is very annoying when tapping is enabled (too sensitive)
18:38:06 <wstephenson> it's worse than being used to tapping and unable to do so
18:38:14 <rabauke> maybe also enable "disable tapping while typing"?
18:38:17 <wstephenson> other way around
18:38:22 <cb400f> I was thinking that too
18:38:23 <wstephenson> it's better than...
18:38:29 <wstephenson> rabauke: +1
18:38:42 <rabauke> Then we need a good timeout. let me check mine.
18:39:06 <cb400f> yeah, iirc 1 sec is the default.. that's too long
18:39:34 <tigerfoot> I've 2.5sec
18:39:41 <rabauke> .8 seconds
18:39:59 <rabauke> tigerfoot: that's really long! :)
18:40:32 * krop must vanish. bbl
18:40:34 <rabauke> cb400f: one second was too long for me as well
18:40:44 <cb400f> yeah, you can go get coffee before you can use your touchpad after typing :-)
18:40:47 <tigerfoot> yeap but when you are using mainly your keyboard, and a part of your hand rip on that damned touchpad, I don't want my mouse flying around:-)
18:41:10 * tigerfoot have also dual stick on his lappy :-)
18:41:14 <rabauke> anybody else using that feature?
18:41:15 <javier> yes, please enable tapping :-)
18:41:35 * mrdocs comes back after emergency trip to supermarket for diapers for missdocs
18:41:43 <tigerfoot> and add the disable it if a mouse is plugged ...
18:42:07 <wstephenson> tigerfoot: is that an option in synaptiks?
18:42:24 <rabauke> tigerfoot: that bit is tricky since I do have to ignore some "mice" or have the touchpad disabled all the time.
18:42:27 <mrdocs> ahh well that explains why my touchpas kinda sucks... + enabled and guive synaptiks a good default
18:42:27 <tigerfoot> kcm_touchpad I thing ..
18:42:47 <cb400f> kcm_touchpad is dead, long live synaptiks
18:42:52 <wstephenson> mrdocs: i hate those trips
18:42:58 <tigerfoot> no synaptiks ..
18:43:06 <mrdocs> wstephenson: yeah sucks.. :)
18:43:09 <mrdocs> brb
18:43:33 <rabauke> I have to ignore broadcom corp device and ps/2 mouse
18:44:10 <tigerfoot> rabauke ok if that cause more trouble just forget, I've no pb to change whatever default is done ...
18:44:39 * tigerfoot think I've change over the years, >70% of default choice anyway ...
18:45:14 <wstephenson> ok so summary is 'enable tapping and disable while typing with 0.8' seconds?
18:45:41 <tigerfoot> go with that ...
18:45:44 <tittiatcoke> I will take this action point, as that I have packaged synaptiks anyway :-)
18:46:10 <cb400f> who can tell that to the meetbot?
18:46:16 <wstephenson> me
18:46:26 <mrdocs> cb400f: you can if you take op
18:46:39 <wstephenson> #action tittiatcoke 'enable tapping and disable while typing with 0.8 seconds' for synaptiks in kdebase4-opensuse config
18:46:50 <tittiatcoke> The first testing package I will send to cb400f :-)
18:46:59 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: not in the synaptiks package itself, ok?
18:46:59 * cb400f watches world dom barometer skyrocket
18:47:16 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: :-)
18:47:30 * tigerfoot have to go in 10minutes ...
18:47:32 <wstephenson> * k3b 2.0.2 without hal requirement? (cb400f)
18:47:35 * mrdocs in 5
18:47:53 <wstephenson> jack be nimble, jack be quick then
18:48:00 <tigerfoot> k3b no hal work  and regonize my drive ...  thx cb400f
18:48:01 <cb400f> the guy sent a mail to the list.. I just wanted to make sure someone was on it
18:48:02 <wstephenson> cb400f: summary pls
18:48:09 <wstephenson> no
18:48:17 <wstephenson> #action wstephenson review hal k3b 2.0.2 list
18:48:27 <mrdocs> we need a release  tho
18:48:33 <tittiatcoke> cb400f: But 2.0.1 also works without hal.
18:48:38 <cb400f> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2011-01/msg00019.html
18:48:40 <wstephenson> * Akonadi and mysqld running on livecd and for fresh user (cb400f)
18:49:09 <cb400f> again, just wanted to draw attention to this bugreport which I consider quite important https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=661844|
18:49:13 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 661844 in openSUSE 11.4 (KDE4 Workspace) "Akonadi starts on login" [Normal,New]
18:49:44 <cb400f> einar77 said there should be a hidden option to fix it easily but I can't get it to work.. I tried asking in #plasma but no answer
18:50:02 <cb400f> (guess they're tired of anti-akonadi whiners)
18:50:35 <cb400f> but I think it's silly to run an empty mysqld for every user.. when only a fraction is using kmail/korganizer/kaddressbook
18:50:47 <wstephenson> cb400f: i'll look at it, last time it was krunners. i guess it's the calendar integration in the clock widget now.
18:50:59 <wstephenson> #action wstephenson handle bnc#661844
18:51:08 <cb400f> yup.. it's the clock, and the calendar events runner
18:51:35 <wstephenson> i see in the BR. good BR.
18:51:40 <cb400f> if you remove the clock and disable that runner the problem is solved, but I can't make akonadi not start by adding "showevents=false" to plasma-desktop-appletsrc
18:51:51 <wstephenson> i think i can get to the bottom of that
18:52:04 <wstephenson> * KPackageKit status and damage control
18:52:16 <tigerfoot> :-) oh that one
18:52:20 <wstephenson> who owns that?
18:52:23 <mrdocs> did packagekit get to Factory ?
18:52:33 <wstephenson> just checking
18:52:43 <cb400f> that's me too.. it was partly because I was confused if kpk intentionally replaced kupdateapplet
18:52:53 <mrdocs> i even bribed the gnome folks to get it done :)
18:53:06 <tittiatcoke> :-)
18:53:17 <cb400f> but also there are some critical bugs... kpk crashes if sw_single is open when it checks for updates... might be fixed in pk 0.6.11 according to dantti
18:53:21 <rabauke> PakcageKit is in G:F
18:53:29 <wstephenson> 0.6.11 is in oF and GF
18:53:30 * mrdocs fixed a security bug for them
18:53:35 * mrdocs pats OBS
18:53:42 * tittiatcoke sees that mrdocs is practising his bribing skills already :-)
18:53:47 <cb400f> and (k)pk wants to install vendor change updates.. but I think duncan is on that
18:54:12 <wstephenson> cb400f: so it dies if something else has the zypp lock?
18:54:12 <cb400f> so, actually for now there's prolly not much for us to do
18:54:22 <cb400f> in ms5 it does
18:54:22 <wstephenson> great. i like these kinds of points
18:54:31 <rabauke> there are issues witht he backend, which seem to be os's issue and some with the frontend, which is upstream
18:54:31 <cb400f> but dantti said it's a bug in pk-qt
18:54:38 <wstephenson> we do need to TEST online updates with kpk
18:54:45 <cb400f> which should be fixed in 0.6.11... ms5 had 0.6.10
18:54:47 <mrdocs> can we get it for  ?
18:54:51 <mrdocs> er
18:54:57 <wstephenson> rabauke, cb400f do we have one list of all these issues?
18:54:57 <mrdocs> can we get it for  11.3 ?
18:55:03 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: If PackageKit is in Factory, I guess we have to send the update of KPackageKit also to o:F
18:55:07 <cb400f> there are test patches for 11.4 of inkscape
18:55:10 <rabauke> I'm testing kpk on os factory
18:55:23 <cb400f> so you can test it if you install factory version of inkscape
18:55:45 <cb400f> .. or you can add KUP and watch kpk suggest to install 15-20 beta/git revisions :-)
18:55:48 <rabauke> one issue with the frontend is that it does not allow the user to add an update repo.
18:56:37 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: kpackagekit is in both oF and KDF, is there a newer version?>
18:56:50 <remur_030> rabauke: is it really intended as a full featured yast/zypper alternative?
18:56:59 <cb400f> but anyway.. next item.. we need to test it with pk 0.6.11 and follow https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=637764
18:57:01 <wstephenson> rabauke: afaik PK is not intended to handle repo add/remove/modify
18:57:03 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 637764 in openSUSE 11.4 (GNOME) "Packagekit updater applet in GNOME sees upgrades/updates from all repositories irrespective of vendor changes" [Major,New]
18:57:07 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Nope :-)
18:57:08 <rabauke> maybe it would be helpful to have a wiki page that helps users to debug whether it is a frontend or backend issue.
18:57:23 <rabauke> wstephenson: yes, but it could open yast
18:57:27 <wstephenson> rabauke: are you volunteering?
18:57:32 <wstephenson> rabauke: and that doesn't work for you?
18:57:37 <rabauke> wstephenson: I reported it already.
18:57:41 <remur_030> rabauke: I think dantti wanted to add it
18:57:58 <wstephenson> rabauke: i meant for a wiki page?
18:58:02 <rabauke> within the last days there was no feedback on the bugs. We'll see
18:58:07 <wstephenson> sth like my NM page at userbase.kde.org
18:58:23 <rabauke> wstephenson: I can add my knowledge to one, yes. where should I put it in the wiki structure?
18:58:47 <cb400f> btw.. kpk also appears in systemsettings as "software management"... same as sw_single in yast... maybe a bit confusing
18:58:55 <mrdocs> eew
18:59:00 <wstephenson> rabauke: openSUSE:KDE_11.4_packagekit
18:59:04 <tigerfoot> cb400f: +1
18:59:26 <wstephenson> cb400f: i can rename it if you make a bug for me to not forget it
18:59:41 <cb400f> but it creates i18n issues etc. :-|
18:59:46 <rabauke> wstephenson: ok
18:59:54 <wstephenson> cb400f: it will go through the suse i18n channel
19:00:02 <cb400f> ok, I'll create a bugreport
19:00:17 <cb400f> will you #action me ?
19:00:32 <wstephenson> #action cb400f report kpk naming clash with sw_single
19:00:45 <wstephenson> #action rabauke write  openSUSE:KDE_11.4_packagekit
19:00:50 <wstephenson> next
19:01:01 <wstephenson> * Switch off nepomuk/nepomuk+strigi by default in 11.4?
19:01:08 <mrdocs> +1
19:01:14 * mrdocs dinner
19:01:16 <cb400f> I vote nepo on, strigi off, same as 11.3
19:01:16 <mrdocs> bbiab
19:01:24 <rabauke> http://trueg.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/someone-requested-excerpts-for-query-results/ would be one useful nepomuk feature. :)
19:01:32 <wstephenson> i don't think nepo off is realistic
19:01:36 * tigerfoot too hungry ... heard the wife cry ....
19:01:39 <cb400f> exactly
19:01:39 <wstephenson> rabauke: was that never merged?
19:01:51 <tigerfoot> just limit the folder it has to index ...
19:01:55 <rabauke> wstephenson: at least it is not shown in kde 4.6
19:01:56 <wstephenson> cb400f: and what about strigi only on xdg-user-dirs?
19:02:03 <remur_030> wstephenson: how does that strigi only for xdg-folders working out?
19:02:14 <tigerfoot> wstephenson: the trueg thing ( context is not in our build )
19:02:25 <cb400f> I think it's too risky - too heavy on resources and power... and not a very good search ui anyway
19:02:25 <rabauke> strigi si crashing dolphin etc. atm, so that one would have to be solved first
19:02:27 <wstephenson> tigerfoot: i'm loath to add patches
19:02:36 <tigerfoot> :-)
19:02:40 <cb400f> better make it opt-in for the peope who actually want desktop search
19:02:52 <rabauke> another issue with nepomuk is that its db never ever decreases
19:03:04 <tigerfoot> can agree with cb400f ...
19:03:09 <wstephenson> well with the controller applet it will be easily enableable
19:03:10 <remur_030> rabauke: you might want to explore the past? ;-)
19:03:23 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Would it be possible to add the latest patches  from Trueg ?
19:03:30 <tigerfoot> rabauke: and the backup things crash ... systematic ( upstrean bug reported )
19:03:45 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: i am going to give him some more feedback and see what he says
19:04:14 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: a 30 minute hang on login while it reorganises is not acceptable
19:04:33 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Ok. I can indicate that since this morning, virtuoso is keeping quiet :-)  But krop indicated that with him he did not suffer from this hang on the first run
19:04:44 <wstephenson> i don't know the size of krop's db
19:04:50 <wstephenson> i assume it's proportional to that
19:04:50 <tittiatcoke> krop ^^
19:05:04 <wstephenson> he's away
19:05:06 <tittiatcoke> I will check with krop later.
19:05:16 <wstephenson> anyone against cb400f's "same as 11.3" suggestion?
19:05:27 <tittiatcoke> I think this is a good default setup
19:05:47 <wstephenson> ok i hear no objections
19:05:49 <wstephenson> next
19:05:51 <wstephenson> * Q&A, misc
19:06:33 <wstephenson> any takers?
19:06:37 <tittiatcoke> I have one question with regards to versioning packages come from git
19:06:44 <wstephenson> oh yeah, i saw your mail
19:07:00 <tittiatcoke> KDE itself is slowly moving to git (kdebindings has moved today) and the question is now how to versioning this ?
19:07:10 <wstephenson> unix timestamp seems more exact than just the date
19:07:29 <tittiatcoke> dirk packages Unstable using YYYYMMDD, but the _obs services is using the timestamp of the last commit.
19:07:41 <wstephenson> i guess dirk didn't respond to your mail?
19:07:45 <tittiatcoke> nope :-)
19:08:13 <wstephenson> i'll poke
19:08:29 <wstephenson> do you have strong feelings either way?
19:08:30 <tittiatcoke> Thanks :-)
19:08:54 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Well, as said using the unix timestamp would be confirm the current obs _service services
19:09:03 <tittiatcoke> adrianS chose for that one :-
19:09:06 <tittiatcoke> :-)
19:09:51 <javier> is this the largest kde meeting ever? :p
19:09:56 <javier> I mean longest
19:10:01 <wstephenson> no, we started late
19:10:08 <wstephenson> we've gone over 120 minutes before :)
19:10:16 <wstephenson> any more Q&A?
19:10:20 <wstephenson> because i'm hungry
19:10:32 <mrdocs> wstephenson: no excuse :)
19:10:47 <tittiatcoke> Nothing from me
19:10:55 * cb400f wants to know more about that work permit :-)
19:10:57 <mrdocs> btw, would 1600 CET be a possible alternative time ?
19:11:07 <mrdocs> for meeting ?
19:11:28 <wstephenson> so an hour earlier?
19:11:29 <mrdocs> i know its awkward for dads :)
19:11:37 <cb400f> bit early for me.. maybe 16.30?
19:11:39 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: That would be 2 hrs earlier
19:11:50 <wstephenson> doh
19:12:05 * wstephenson is fine either way
19:12:31 <mrdocs> can we try it next meet and if attendance drops i will shut up :)
19:13:47 <wstephenson> mrdocs: suggest it on list please, too many people have had to leave by now
19:13:57 <mrdocs> wstephenson: will do
19:14:07 <wstephenson> ok so that's it
19:14:15 <wstephenson> thanks for coming, it's been a great meeting
19:14:21 <mrdocs> exactly
19:14:23 <wstephenson> we had enough stored up since our last full meeting :)
19:14:26 * mrdocs dinner for real
19:14:31 <wstephenson> best of luck for 2011
19:14:43 <wstephenson> let's make kde on suse rock
19:14:51 <tittiatcoke> Yeah
19:14:56 <wstephenson> and thanks for all your commitment and hard work in 2010
19:15:08 <javier> well, I want to use that I've been translating the kde quick guide into Spanish... 40% is done so far :)
19:15:09 <tittiatcoke> and let's go to the moon with KDE Unstable :-)
19:15:12 <javier> say
19:15:18 <javier> not use
19:15:27 <wstephenson> javier: cool!
19:15:44 <javier> and I want to motivate other to do the same ;-)
19:15:47 <javier> *others
19:15:53 <wstephenson> get duncanmv to help maybe
19:16:10 <javier> I mean translating to other languages
19:16:14 <javier> not just es
19:16:17 <javier> ok
19:17:14 <cb400f> wstephenson: #endmeeting
19:17:19 <wstephenson> #endmeeting