15:44:27 #startmeeting 15:44:27 Meeting started Thu Feb 17 15:44:27 2011 UTC. The chair is sreeves. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:44:27 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:44:35 ok let do this 15:44:50 welcome to the opensuse-gnome meeting 15:45:12 see the meeting page at - http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GNOME_meeting 15:45:54 anyone have any intro stuff or can we move to the first topic ? 15:46:08 vuntz: thought so ;) 15:46:12 vuntz: you want to sing an opening song ? 15:46:14 sreeves: I want to say I love you for chairing this meeting :-) 15:46:35 * DimStar cheers the chair 15:46:37 vuntz: I'm the only one that would suffer from the singing.... not fair 15:46:46 #topic 11.4 status and blockers 15:47:02 as you know we are at RC1 15:47:36 there are a few very visible bugs in RC1 that are now fixed such as the missing icons 15:47:41 thanks vuntz 15:47:56 * sreeves checks the most annoying page quickly 15:48:42 * vuntz has a list of blockers he'll share afterwards 15:49:36 looks like the other gnome issues on that page are fixed as well 15:50:03 share your list vuntz 15:50:18 I have 4 things 15:50:20 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=671844 15:50:24 openSUSE bug 671844 in openSUSE 11.4 (GNOME) "Mono-based applications (banshee, gnome-do, f-spot) missing from GNOME LiveCD" [Major,New] 15:50:39 no idea what's going on there, waiting for a new gnome livecd to be built 15:50:43 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=667873 15:50:47 openSUSE bug 667873 in openSUSE 11.4 (GNOME) "gnome-panel crashes for all old users after an update" [Critical,New] 15:50:51 need to investigate this 15:51:31 3rd: yelp is using xulrunner192. That's bad because it's old and because this brings xulrunner192 on the livecd. Just for yelp. 15:52:32 4th: some accessibility-related issue in gnome-panel, that mgorse pointed out earlier today. If accessibility is enabled, bad stuff happens because old & new applets both share the PanelApplet GType, but it's two different types 15:53:08 and that's it 15:53:28 hopefully, I should be able to get the two panel bugs fixed 15:53:32 for the 3'rd item - you said it only pulls xulrunner192 in for printing correct ? 15:53:41 and thats currently broken anyway ? 15:53:44 hrm, no :-) 15:54:03 I "ported" yelp to xulrunner20, and it broke printing, among other things 15:54:28 ah - I misread your comments 15:54:37 it felt to me like all the broken things were actually pointing to one unique issue 15:54:47 some functions returning NULL, while we expect something else 15:55:35 so yeah 15:55:48 I guess we need to dive deeper in the yelp & xulrunner192 codes 15:56:03 apart from that, we fixed quite a few bugs in the last few days 15:56:24 vuntz: isn't fedora and ubuntu running into this issue? 15:57:14 sshaw: fedora 14 wasn't using xulrunner20, fedora 15 will have new yelp (webkit-based) 15:57:14 Fedora bug 14 in Red Hat Linux (kernel) "Sound Modules Appear to be missing" [Medium,Closed: currentrelease] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/14 15:57:15 Fedora bug 15 in Red Hat Linux (installer) "Install is dying on package selection" [High,Closed: currentrelease] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/15 15:57:18 good point about ubuntu, though 15:57:34 I'll ask 15:57:57 natty is on yelp 2.91.3 15:58:00 * badshah400 has to leave for a few minutes on an urgent issue 15:58:21 err.. 2.91.10 even 15:58:43 ah 15:59:28 we can't do that, it's too late for us 15:59:41 (especially as it requires at least one new package) 16:00:22 do other people have blockers? 16:00:38 I'm running into an issue 16:00:40 sorry power down here 16:01:04 after resuming my laptop I almost always have to run rcnetwork restart 16:01:22 as per Coolo's last mail, we really need goo dreasons to get any change in now.. as 11.4 seems to be split off now. 16:01:22 it almost reconnect on resume, but seems to fail to update /etc/resolv.conf 16:03:41 sshaw: this just started with rc1 ? 16:03:50 no 16:03:59 I think I have mentioned it in here before 16:04:29 oh, and this really only happens when changing networks 16:04:39 maybe just the networks I'm connecting to? 16:05:57 my 11.4 box is a desktop machine so I can't test that 16:06:10 anyone else see that ? 16:06:15 sreeves: I have an extra laptop you can test with ;) 16:06:20 sshaw: probably better file a bug 16:06:26 sreeves: maybe its a hard drive space issue ;) 16:06:47 * sshaw will file one later 16:07:02 badshah400: do we know if the missing mono stack is new for RC1 ? 16:07:17 vuntz, the artwork situation is solved ? 16:07:40 metalgod: thats the next topic 16:07:44 ok 16:07:47 packagekit ? 16:09:06 duncan updated the zypp backend to use the satsolver directly so it now honors vendor change, locked packages ... 16:09:17 it wasn't submitted yet, though 16:09:53 my vote would be that we should have the conf file setting only do patch updates by default 16:10:11 other opinions ? 16:10:21 makes sense to me 16:10:47 same here... 16:10:53 that would maintain existing behavior but make it easy for people that want to switch 16:11:21 i agree 16:11:41 by default it should use the old behavior 16:11:41 I'll will post a comment in the bug with our unanimous approval :) 16:11:57 s/I'll/I 16:11:57 can you also push duncan to submit his changes asap? :-) 16:12:13 #action sreeves to push on packagekit bug 16:12:20 hrmm 16:12:46 vuntz: metalgod - I forget, is that the way to do an action item ? 16:12:54 sreeves, yes 16:13:16 ah thats right - the bot does not give feedback 16:13:30 anything else before we move to the next topic ? 16:13:34 sreeves: I am not sure, but I think it was also an issue with M6 16:14:27 badshah400: do we know if it's a problem with something not building or a space on the live CD issue ? 16:14:51 sreeves: I don't actually 16:15:18 ok 16:15:38 #topic 11.4 wallpaper and GDM theme 16:15:47 sreeves: I don't know how to find that out either 16:16:24 we would need to check the pattern and see if it is intentionally left out 16:16:33 or ping coolo :) 16:16:42 metalgod: now ask your question 16:17:06 ok 16:17:11 it's solved, yes :-) 16:17:28 vuntz, we will use an old wallpaper from what i understand 16:17:33 nope 16:17:37 we use the 11.4 wallpaper 16:17:44 we have a dynamic version 16:17:47 it's okay 16:17:50 vuntz, it's the same of grub ? 16:17:54 and splash ? 16:17:56 yes 16:17:59 ok 16:18:00 perfect 16:18:09 I'm not a big fan of it, but that's a matter of taste 16:18:19 we should start thinking on gnome3 branding also 16:18:20 where can I see an example of it? 16:18:25 and I encourage everyone to try tennebon-dynamic-wallpaper from GNOME:Apps 16:18:36 it's full of jimmac love 16:18:43 vuntz: tennebon looks better definitely 16:18:51 Ilmehtar: http://openqa.opensuse.org/opensuse/testresults/openSUSE-NET-i586-Build1079-gnome/ooffice-2.jpg 16:19:04 pretty nice that one ^ 16:19:07 vuntz love it 16:19:10 vuntz: its not in factory/11.4 though, is it? 16:19:22 badshah400: tennebon? Not yet 16:19:27 badshah400: I guess it won't make it in 11.4 16:19:35 vuntz: that's a pity 16:19:38 well 16:19:42 yes 16:20:53 anyway 16:20:58 we still have a few days before the RC2 deadline :-D 16:21:08 vuntz: do you have a link to the wallpaper so I can change it on my machine :) 16:21:09 sreeves: tennebon is a new package, though 16:21:22 sreeves: so it's likely blocking on legal 16:21:25 sreeves: yes.. but if you read coolo's mail, you won't get much change in :) 16:22:06 sshaw: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/GNOME:/Apps/openSUSE_Factory/noarch/tennebon-dynamic-wallpaper-1-1.1.noarch.rpm 16:22:07 for the millionth time: i don't like the default wallpaper this time around :( 16:22:41 but I am happy there at least is a default after all that happened 16:22:54 sreeves, i think you should include G:N status for the next topic 16:23:38 well if it is blocked on legal there is not much hope so I guess we just move on 16:23:43 metalgod: your wish is my command 16:23:51 #topic G:N status 16:24:05 i have a word here before the rest of the team 16:24:15 i participated on gnome3 user day 16:24:39 and looks like opensuse and fedora are the distros that people can use to start using gnome3 right after it comes out 16:24:55 so we have a good oportunity to spread even more 16:25:08 I haven't finished pushing all my changes from my gnome3 repo to G:N, but a lot of rq are already pending in G:N for review 16:25:13 fcrozat live image is used by lot's of users 16:25:25 metalgod: next release today :) 16:25:50 fcrozat, awesome we on marketing are suggesting the live image to everyone to try out gnome3 16:26:09 fedora doesn't even an alpha iso had released 16:26:17 they do 16:26:17 so it makes opensuse a good option to try gnome3 16:26:30 would it be possible to have a good solid live image by next wednesday? 16:26:38 something we could give out at scale9x? 16:26:49 sshaw: depends what you call "solid" :) 16:27:06 fcrozat, so we can point that after 3.0 release we can have a repo for 11.4 ready to be installed ? 16:27:07 fcrozat: won't scare users away... More or less works on boot, no messing with stuff 16:27:09 current one (or the next one today) should be even more :) 16:27:21 sshaw: it is already the case 16:27:40 metalgod: well, I plan to move live image to 11.4 when it is released 16:27:50 fcrozat: I've started to download it a few times, but my downloads keep getting interrupted so I haven't had a chance to try it yet 16:27:55 so it should help us getting 3.0 in shape when it is ready 16:28:11 awesome 16:28:13 since coolo just added openSUSE:11.4, can you do that now? 16:28:35 sshaw: it is mirrored all over the world, thanks to opensuse mirrors :) 16:28:40 this is a good marketing oportunity from opensuse perspective 16:28:44 also from gnome upstream too 16:28:49 sshaw: we will either do that in my own repo or in G:N 16:28:56 but yes, it is the idea, don't worry :) 16:29:00 our plans for G3 remains as in http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GNOME_features#openSUSE_GNOME_3_respin ? 16:29:14 now, I give back the mic to people in charge of G:N, like vuntz :) 16:29:21 badshah400, i think as soon as fcrozat rebase his image we can do it 16:29:40 great! 16:29:54 badshah400, even if it's an unofficial way 16:29:56 fcrozat: me, in charge? 16:30:08 vuntz: you are approving stuff for G:N, right ? :) 16:30:16 or is it DimStar ? :) 16:30:16 well, I'm actually not ;-) 16:30:20 * sshaw just saw the bus go over vuntz ;) 16:30:21 but I'm supposed to, yes 16:30:24 hehe 16:30:29 metalgod: the official tag sure does not matter for me :) 16:30:55 I wanted to start approving stuff in G:N today, but got stuck with 11.4 + security issues 16:31:57 vuntz, hi 16:32:13 ok 16:32:27 so we will have gnome3.0 on a repo ready for 11.4 16:32:29 nmarques: meeting going on right now. join with us 16:32:36 and probably an unofficial respin 16:34:12 sreeves, move to the next topic ? 16:34:30 DimStar: you have anything else to add to the gnome:next status ? 16:34:44 sreeves: nope... I have not been much involved in it... 16:34:49 ok 16:35:05 #topic previous action items status 16:35:20 metalgod: this topic is listed as yours 16:35:26 ok so psankar had a bug with wrong action taken when clicking link 16:35:53 he reported a bug but no idea if it's critical 16:36:22 about porting sonar to gtk3 he also did a few tweets and posts but so far nobody jumped 16:36:42 i think we should have this done before gnome3 16:37:06 otherwise we will end up with different themes on a gnome3 environment 16:37:19 also fcrozat to check on driver for r600 in xorg 16:37:27 any news fcrozat ? 16:37:50 metalgod: didn't had time to try to build it for the image. I know we don't have it enabled in factory 16:37:56 I thought that upstream wanted GNOME3 to be themed by them as vuntz mentioned a while back 16:38:04 put it back for next week meeting 16:38:06 what would we need sonar for then? 16:38:16 badshah400, for our user base ? :) 16:38:29 #action fcrozat to check on driver for r600 in xorg 16:39:12 badshah400, well the problem is... if you use the default gtk3 theme (adwaita) and mix with gtk2 apps 16:39:19 things will look wrong 16:39:19 nmarques: distributions were supposed to use the upstream theming as far as possible right? 16:39:43 metalgod: ok, that might be a problem. 16:39:46 badshah400, popular distros always change themes 16:39:48 badshah400, one thing is ship default, other thing is have alternatives available, that's how I see it ;) 16:39:49 and branding 16:40:12 openSUSE branding is very different from other distros 16:40:15 we all know that :) 16:40:18 badshah400, and Sonar kinda became a openSUSE 'calling card' 16:40:35 metalgod: so far yes, I thought that was abt to change with G3 16:40:37 sonar and gilouche before 16:40:59 nmarques: yes, I agree sonar is a great theme, as was gilouche 16:41:15 the default gnome3 theme is also great 16:41:24 (all three from the same author) 16:41:42 yep, jimmac the great :) 16:42:05 the problem is 16:42:06 anyway, I was just wondering; nothing specific so we can move on 16:42:13 or we change to adwaita for gtk2 and gtk3 16:42:20 or we port sonar to gtk3 16:42:36 the first one seems bad for us 16:43:37 metalgod: perhaps, but we should remember we do not have a "dedicated" designer any more 16:43:47 yeah i understand 16:43:51 and not everyone knows css 16:44:15 sounds like we could still use psankar to spread the word about possible sonar port 16:44:32 #action psankar to spread the word about needing help for port of sonar to gtk3 16:44:33 ehehe right 16:44:45 since he is not here he gets it again :) 16:45:22 I wonder if it's really hard to port it to css, btw 16:45:22 it might not be that hard 16:45:23 metalgod: I don't know how complicated option 2 is, but if upstream already is ready with adwaita for gtk3 and 2, we could use that too in the future; i wouild not think that would be a bad thing to do necessarily 16:45:57 badshah400, we will look like fedora and other distros that don't use custom branding 16:46:10 vuntz, yeah it could be easy 16:46:59 metalgod, maybe ask someone from the wiki team? They should be proficient with css ;) 16:48:17 I think that does it for the previous action items 16:48:25 hope someone does the option 2 well, but I am sceptical due to lack of the one "designer" guy :) 16:48:28 honestly i've done a gnome theme based on a known engine 16:48:31 it wasn't hard 16:48:39 ok, that's good then 16:48:44 but i don't have much time to dive on css now 16:48:46 :( 16:49:07 badshah400, also a gnome-shell theme would be wonderful 16:49:10 but thats another call 16:49:23 metalgod, there is a Sonar theme for gnome-shell 16:49:44 nmarques, yes there is but i'm not sure if it isn't already outdated 16:50:18 we have also to see if the current sonar icons fit well with gnome3 icons 16:50:22 symbolic etc... 16:50:38 that's a month job for a designer ehehe 16:51:25 ok should we move on and we will hit this again in next meeting ? 16:51:44 sreeves: yes 16:51:48 #topic project update 16:52:03 sure 16:52:34 we have kind of covered this in previous topics but any general project updates ? 16:52:40 vuntz: metalgod DimStar ^^ 16:53:32 hrm 16:53:49 I think we covered everything already 16:53:53 yeah 16:54:22 #topic QA 16:54:40 when is the submission deadline for RC2 ? 16:54:45 vuntz: i have a question relating to this: is GNOME going to release incremental 2.x versions any more after 3.0 releases? 16:54:59 RC2 is next Friday, so deadline is tomorrow/monday 16:55:00 sreeves: I believe this Friday, that's tomorrow 16:55:10 badshah400, no 2.32 is the last one 16:55:14 badshah400: no more 2.x release 16:55:26 badshah400: some modules might release some 2.x versions, though 16:55:34 for example, there'll be empathy 2.34 16:55:56 but that's because empathy people are nice people :-) 16:56:03 vuntz: okay: for future versions of openSUSE do we plan to have G:2.x repos for those who intend to stick to the classical gnome? 16:56:21 badshah400, gnome3 provides a fallback to gnome-panel 16:56:32 so you don't need to have gnome2 16:56:45 for example gnome:2.32 for the next opensuse release? 16:57:11 badshah400: we might do GNOME:STABLE:2.32 for 11.4 16:57:20 metalgod: still, G:3 is a fresh start; there might be prople wioth too much inertia to move on 16:57:25 but I'm not completely sure about it 16:57:43 vuntz: ok 16:57:54 the issue is that 11.3 already uses G:S:2.32, and for 11.4, we'd need a new glib there, which would break 11.3 stuff 16:58:07 badshah400, we are trying to convince people that if they don't have a 3d supported card they can still use gnome-panel as fallback 16:58:25 do people think there'll be demand for G:S:2.32 for 11.4? 16:58:28 metalgod, and those who have 3D enabled and still want the panel ? 16:58:32 * vuntz would expect people to want G:S:3.0 16:58:47 nmarques, it's suggested that you should use gnome-shell 16:58:49 i would have it as an option if possible 16:58:56 metalgod: ok, i am just worried (I worry a lot usu, so this is natural:) ) after the experience with KDE4.0 etc 16:58:57 to have the full experience 16:59:36 FunkyPenguin: which one? 3.0 or 2.32? 16:59:51 vuntz, personally I would say both 17:00:00 vuntz, we can branch 2.32 of 11.4 17:00:10 we can 17:00:10 and do minor bumps 17:00:17 we can do many things 17:00:42 but that's two projects to maintain 17:00:42 vuntz, yeah, but we only have limited resources so we need to make sure they are used correctly 17:00:43 not available for 11.3 17:00:48 I guess it is a question of manpower actually, so maintaining both might not be possible 17:01:07 vuntz, what is the roadmap upstream for 2.xx 17:01:11 I think it's worth pointing out here that anybody can help maintain G:S:* 17:01:12 i wouldn't mind of not having 2.32 17:01:18 since it's already on 11.4 17:01:22 with more help, we could do both 17:01:27 FunkyPenguin: it's dead 17:01:30 ok 17:01:35 vuntz, do you think I can help with some guidance? 17:01:45 vuntz, ok that's much simpler then - we have G:S:3 17:02:19 nmarques: I don't think the issue is guidance. We just need people to actually check if there are updates (osc collab todo), and package the updates 17:02:32 and we need people to test things, obviously 17:02:32 why work on something that upstream isnt working on? 17:02:44 FunkyPenguin, that's my point 17:02:47 vuntz, I'm planning to stay GNOME2 for at least one more cycle 17:02:58 vuntz, so I can probably help if it's only updating/testing 17:03:13 metalgod, in that case i whole heartedly agree 17:03:18 vuntz, so you got one extra hand within limited knowledge 17:03:35 FunkyPenguin, gnome3 is much more important from marketing point of view 17:03:48 FunkyPenguin: well, it's dead officially, but, for example, there's evo 2.32.2 while we'll ship evo 2.32.1 17:04:08 i already mentioned some reasons that could get more userbase for opensuse 17:04:34 metalgod, have you seen any marketing on GNOME3 by openSUSE ? :) 17:05:12 nmarques, the gnome3 live image is on opensuse thanks to fcrozat ;) 17:05:21 it was being dished out at fosdem 17:05:21 nmarques, no... i only participate on marketing upstream 17:05:24 not opensuse 17:05:26 FunkyPenguin, key word: MARKETING ;) 17:05:35 and we had gnome3 on display at our booth 17:05:51 not only the live image but also packages for a stable release 17:06:01 something that people can actually install and use 17:06:12 metalgod, doesnt matter if they don't know it exists 17:06:14 and opensuse could be the first one 17:06:48 nmarques: I'm hoping to market/display/talk about it at scale9x next week 17:06:59 the problem with openSUSE Marketing is that they are turning into a commercial division and not into a Marketing group ;) 17:07:05 there is also a marketing hackfest, so, I'm hoping to get them on board too 17:07:38 nmarques: its still a young group. We'll see what happens 17:07:56 sshaw, I've jumped that ship some time ago, I don't care ;) 17:08:10 any other questions before we close out the meeting ? 17:08:14 nmarques: I'm not a marketing person by any means. 17:08:24 one question: 17:08:35 sshaw, we are all marketeers ;) either you like it or not 17:08:35 regarding status of http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GNOME_features#Automatic_installation_of_gstreamer_codecs 17:09:08 badshah400: wasn't fully completed 17:09:27 badshah400: but if you have the right repos configured, it will work 17:09:32 is it worth beating the drums about? I am writing down a list of cool stuff we have finally managed to implement and I was thinking of this 17:10:08 vuntz, add packman: zypper in `zypper se ffmpeg`, usually does the trick 17:10:31 vuntz: i tried to play mp3 before fluendo-mp3 was pulled in, but though that package was in the factory-oss repo or non-oss repo, the dialog said "cannot find package" that provides the required codec 17:10:33 nmarques: with the automatic stuff, no need for "zypper in" 17:11:01 badshah400: ah? 17:11:10 hrm, maybe it broke 17:11:13 DimStar: any idea? 17:11:14 vuntz, automatic is weird taking the flash example ;) 17:11:45 vuntz: I know the ability to add a repo is not in; but this is something I expect to work; and it was afaik with M3 17:12:09 this meaning installing fluendo-mp3 when I try to play mp3 17:12:12 badshah400: anyway, without the repo part, I wouldn't advertize it too much 17:12:46 vuntz: ok 17:12:55 vuntz, changing the topic a bit 17:13:21 vuntz, I've tinkered gnome-session, it's not perfect, but it's there... I wonder if you could have a look when you have some time 17:13:49 nmarques: how urgent is it, compared to approving packages in G:Ayatana? 17:13:51 :-) 17:14:04 vuntz, not urgent, but there's one higher priority 17:14:24 vuntz: will have to check the auto pullin... 17:14:46 vuntz, SR 60107 ;) 17:15:24 any other QA questions ? 17:15:54 thanks everyone for the participation. Good meeting. 17:15:57 #endmeeting