19:30:06 #startmeeting 19:30:06 Meeting started Sat Jan 28 19:30:06 2012 UTC. The chair is anditosan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:30:06 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:30:10 there we go 19:30:11 :D 19:30:23 welcome everyone today to our meeting and welcome also to our new members 19:30:36 members? you mean it-s :-p 19:30:49 unless theres someone else lurking.. 19:30:49 before we get into the neaty greety of this meeting, are there any announcements to be made? 19:31:05 hehe yes, I will give him a little time to introduce himself 19:31:06 :D 19:31:10 #info coffee is awesome 19:31:22 no annoucements? 19:31:53 darn 19:31:53 awesome! moving on. it-s, would you please introduce yourself to the rest of our team 19:32:00 I knew I got disconnected 19:32:11 all you missed it-s-PC was us calling you names..now you can introduce yourself :) 19:32:12 anditosan: what did I miss? 19:32:19 alright 19:32:47 in case you didn't get my email on the mailing list 19:32:48 it-s, nothing, go ahead :D 19:32:50 My name is Eugene, and I'm a graphic artist from Canada 19:33:05 ooh Canada 19:33:21 it-s-PC: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2012-01/msg00018.html 19:33:43 I'm a part of KDE Oxygen team, and KDE www team 19:33:57 it-s-PC: as Canada is so small place :D on East or West Coast ? 19:34:02 This early winter OpenSuSE team has contacted me and asked to come and help you guys 19:34:11 Toronto 19:34:17 it-s-PC: welcome ... 19:34:22 welcome! 19:34:31 and thus I'm here 19:34:56 * tigerfoot really appreciate the work done on oxygen (I hope to see the gtk3 themes as default :D) 19:34:56 awesome, well I am sure we are glad to have you around. the more artists the better :D 19:35:00 when you say 'openSUSE team'..I guess you mean SUSE? are you one of their 'boosters'? (SUSE employees paid to do openSUSE stuff) 19:35:33 I mean SUSE team yes 19:35:45 * tigerfoot think good guys :D 19:35:52 as in the employees of SUSE 19:36:11 ok that's all about me 19:36:19 awesome, welcome! 19:36:25 moving on... 19:36:29 now maybe you guys cold tell me who you do 19:36:36 damn 19:36:39 what you do ;P 19:36:44 lol, yes we can 19:37:27 I am anditosan, from Chile, living in the USA. Work on artwork for the team and some artwork requests from marketing. I also participate as an ambassdor around town. 19:37:32 or andy :D 19:38:17 anditosan: we can do that here https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/groups/14741/artwork/ to make future introductions simple ? 19:38:30 simon123, you're tha man! thanks 19:38:44 awesome, I guess that does it. Could we mve on? 19:38:47 anditosan: also we have to ask jdd to add more operators 19:39:06 simon123, please do. I asked him not knowing if there were any others 19:39:57 are we ok to move on team? 19:40:32 #topic Wallpaper Contest Conclusion 19:40:36 Wallpaper Contest Conclusion 19:40:46 before getting to this let me explain something 19:40:54 I'm Richard, from England, I seem to get myself involved in tons of stuff, currently artwork, marketing, gnome, and the ambassador programme.. I alsouse a lot of Novell/SUSE stuff in the office, so I get to see stuff from tons of different angles 19:40:58 and..yup, now we can move on ;-) 19:41:53 my name is marcus (as you can see from my nick ;)) and i am living in Switzerland. I am a linux user since the early 90th and did a lot of contributions (not only to opensuse). suse related activities are listed on my connect page 19:42:00 a couple of days ago someone entered our voting poll and delete quite a few of the votes from it. What we had not realized was that anyone who has a doodle account and participates in a poll can do that. So, it's my bad for being so naive. But fortunately we have a vote count history and the newer votes I have the results 19:42:27 you can find our candidates here http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wallpapers 19:42:33 now the results in order 19:43:09 these are the number of votes from the first design to the last 19:43:11 25 19:43:16 21 19:43:19 38 19:43:21 11 19:43:22 56 19:43:24 24 19:43:26 15 19:43:33 11 19:43:34 9 19:43:36 13 19:43:40 30 19:43:42 51 19:43:47 46 19:43:59 that means, marcus and Ilmehtar are the winners!!!!! 19:44:09 it's an awesome design! 19:44:18 with lightray 19:44:19 56 being lightrays, and 51 and 46 being two of your chamleon designs? 19:44:28 that is accurate, yes 19:44:58 which were the ones that got 38 and 30? just curious.. nice to see such a spread on the vote 19:45:06 Ilmehtar went ahead and predicted his design to be the winner :) so he has done some work with this design already and will try to put it in ML 1 next week 19:45:47 well, since Ilmehtar has already started using lightrays and seeing how it's coming on top, I think we should stick with it 19:46:00 that was the swirls wallpaper by me and opensuse 1 by lars gardmo 19:46:23 definitively, Ilmehtar knows how to package them :D 19:46:31 marcus: curiosity - why call it 'lightrays'? there are no rays there :) 19:46:57 ray tracing ? 19:47:17 it is a special ray that is swirling around :) 19:47:25 hrhr 19:47:49 looks more like some sort of a vegetation 19:47:52 it is a ray of light coming from above letting the geeko shine 19:48:13 depends on the viewers eyes i guess ;) 19:48:16 anyhow 19:48:31 and understanding of physics :P 19:48:32 should we offer suggestions to be worked on the wallpaper that marcus created ? 19:48:41 I'd like to propose actually packaging those top 4 who didn't make it in some sort of 'wallpapers-extra' package for 12.2 - as these will be straight wallpapers all I'd need would be the design, in the 4 resolutions/aspect ratios we use (16:9, 16:10, 5:4, and 4:3) 19:49:03 well it' 19:49:22 well it's rather flat at the moment, so some texture would do it well 19:49:27 we can also call it swirls 19:49:48 that would be great 19:49:52 a little colour management and probably that will do 19:49:56 do you have checked out the svg already? 19:49:56 I like that idea 19:50:08 Ilmehtar, what 4 who didn't make it do you mean? 19:50:20 you can also move or modify the swirls a bit if you want 19:51:00 alright 19:51:12 anditosan: I'd like to have your 2 chamelon designs, and your swirls, and opensuse 1 in the wallpaper-extras package we're going to put together - having only 2 wallpapers in there doesn't seem like 'enough' to me, and a few extra wont hurt :) 19:51:13 anditosan: should we move to assignments? 19:51:18 the only not know yet is the packaging for plymouth which has a chance to enter in factory ... 19:51:25 sounds good 19:51:34 will talk about that with fcrozat at fosdem ... 19:51:51 please let me know what do you want me to do with the design of my wallpapers to make them more awesome 19:51:54 it-s-PC, here you will find the svg source: http://www.marcusmoeller.ch/share/oS/12_2/opensuse_lightray_nologo.svg 19:52:20 marcus: it's not yet in the git repo ? 19:52:24 marcus: thanks 19:52:27 they're in the git repo :) 19:52:37 I will provide my sources shortly 19:52:39 Ilmehtar: okay. 19:52:41 I put them there today, along with the sources for everything I've used the design in :) 19:52:56 cool, thanks 19:53:11 Ilmehtar: cool, don't forget to add a new size for openSUSE - ARM :D 19:53:16 team, can you give me a couple of suggestions to make my designs better? 19:53:39 anditosan, was it you who made the photos of the geeko? 19:53:53 i guess it is yours, isn't it? 19:53:54 yes 19:54:01 the chameleon is mine too :D 19:54:18 when it comes to resizing/reuse of lightrays, all I've done is the odd tweak to the gradient to make sure it still gets darker near the edges, and I've resized all of the 'rays' but keeping them proportional.. that should make it pretty easy for us to swap out and change 19:54:19 ok, the background on the photo whith the big chameleon is way to light 19:54:24 ok 19:54:26 besides that it really looks good 19:54:33 awesome, I can tweak that 19:54:34 it-s-PC: especially if you're going to be tweaking things and adding texture :) 19:54:53 Ilmehtar, please be careful darkening the edges too much, that sucks on kde 19:55:12 marcus: I've done my best to never let it get any darker at the edges than it is on your 16:10 original 19:55:14 marcus, agreed! 19:55:15 because the k menu is located in the bottom right 19:55:19 Ilmehtar: may I talk to you about it in details later? 19:55:19 ok 19:55:27 it-s-PC: sure! 19:55:29 awesome, moving on 19:55:36 #topic Action List Assessment (What to do next) 19:55:55 please mention the tasks that you will be engaged on and a possible timframe for them to be done 19:56:10 or if there are any task requests from our members 19:56:42 as promised, i would offer my help with the kdm theme, creating one with userlist support, as this seems to be a feature (at least suse) users need. 19:56:53 marcus: would you allow me to play with your artwork then? I'll show you the final result 19:56:53 marcus: bottom left the k menu no ? :D 19:57:02 I want to get a draft, working version of the full branding package committed and in milestone 1, which means (for me) it needs to be done by thursday night. 19:57:07 it-s-PC, of course. i made it for that 19:57:16 it-s-PC: you're free ... please do 19:57:19 we can only improve / grow / learn together 19:57:43 marcus: thanks! 19:57:45 as of right now, bootsplash, kdm, and the gnome dynamic wallpapers are the only things that dont have a 'lightrays version' done in our git repo 19:58:10 is plymouth switch set, already? 19:58:21 Ilmehtar: bootsplash is not that difficult with scripts laying in -art repo 19:58:28 no, it's not, so we're still assuming bootsplash for now 19:58:31 ok 19:58:40 are we looking to have the same design image in accross all these modules, kdm, gdm, splash screen? 19:58:47 marcus: plymouth is only an option, but it seems fcrozat will try to get it in factory, 19:58:47 bootsplash? 19:58:50 tigerfoot: yes, but I'm having to dig out some really old scripts as this design calls for the logo to be in the middle :) which is cool 19:59:11 Ilmehtar: someone has to touch thread about Plymouth to get answers fast 19:59:16 I'm fine doing the gnome dynamic wallpapers (though suggestions on what transitions/effects/colours to use would be great) - I'm also okay with doing the bootsplash unless someone else wants to take it on 19:59:18 the wallpaper / login / splash should not contain the geeko, only the bootsplash 19:59:27 I'm least happy about doing kdm 19:59:31 simon123: we will see Frédéric at fosdem next week.end 19:59:36 the wallpaper / login / splash will not contain the geeko 20:00:10 ok, so they will be different than the wallpaper? 20:00:17 Ilmehtar: for kdm this time we have to integrate all optionnal things, like the ad login, users list etc ... to avoid the missed part in 12.1 20:00:17 Ilmehtar, just place the geeko in the middle and a status bar below. there has been themes like that. if i find one, i will send you a template 20:00:59 is there a way that we can design a custom kde/gnome bootsplash to show difference between the wallpaper and the loading process? this was pointed out by suseROCKs and darkmatter 20:01:06 marcus: that's the plan, I'm digging out the old scripts from 11.1 which followed that model :) I don't think it'll be a problem, just a fun learning curve for me 20:01:15 ok, fine 20:01:43 anditosan, at least there will be a status bar on it 20:02:31 marcus, that would be awesome. Some members of the community mentioned to me that they wanted to see difference between the wallpaper and the window manager loading modules 20:02:56 one thing on plymouth - plymouth wont be in milestone 1, so it's probably not worth worrying about it now.. this 'crunch' to get things packaged for Thursday is so we can get MS1 out there with at least somethign that will resemble our finished designs - if it-s-PC and others are going to change lightrays, that's cool, more fun work but plenty of time before release to get it in there :) 20:03:26 Ilmehtar: I wasn't planning on doing anything about it for now :) 20:03:39 Ilmehtar, we will have to make sure to contact other members that work with plymouth. To date, it has never worked on my laptop or any other computer I have installed it on 20:03:51 :D 20:04:06 ok I believe this solves part 4 of our meeting 20:04:11 awesome piece of software :) 20:04:16 it-s-PC, so we are already waiting for the first results ;) 20:04:16 are there any other task requests to be made? 20:04:19 as long as we keep all the relevant sources in git and keep everyone in touch with what others are doing, I'm really quite excited about how much further ahead we already are on 12.2 than we were at at this stage of 12.1 :) 20:04:29 who's taking on kdm..anyone? 20:04:38 Ilmehtar, so true! 20:04:39 i will do as mentioned 20:04:53 but if andi wants, i am fine with that, too ;) 20:04:58 cool cool 20:05:15 I have never done a KDM theme, I would have to learn about it first. I would rather learn from marcus first, that ok? 20:05:26 #action marcus - kdm stuff 20:05:31 how about I do it? 20:05:38 you can test my results and comment and improve anditosan 20:05:47 #action anditosan - resize wallpapers and prep them for packaging 20:05:57 marcus, thanks :D 20:06:01 #action Richard to work on using current lightrays draft in bootsplash and gnome-dynamic wallpaper, and then get branding package built for MS1 20:06:15 coming from KDE community I think I'm the best candidate to work with KDE parts :) 20:06:23 probably 20:06:45 I'd be tempted to put fuzzy feet embedded into the images if I was doing it ;-) 20:06:58 it-s-PC, i would suggest you just improve and customize the design and sent the results to the list. if you got no hosting space to upload them, you can either mail them to me, use minus (or something similiar), deviantart or git. 20:07:15 * suseROCKs yawns awake and says hi to everyone 20:07:25 it-s-PC: but don't forget user images in kdm (it was quite a few that wanted them back) 20:07:29 suseROCKs: morning sleepyhead 20:07:31 Ilmehtar, please wait with the dynamic wallpaper for it-s-PC improvements 20:07:51 * suseROCKs blows morning breath on Ilmehtar 20:07:54 marcus: good point..okay..for MS1 I'll just cheat and the dynamic wallpaper wont be dynamic at all :) 20:08:01 could we agree on 2 weeks or so Ilmehtar it-s-PC 20:08:05 * anditosan suseROCKs is only awake cuz of me! 20:08:46 marcus: but I'll keep the package and scripts 'as if' we have different wallpapers for morning and night so we can then easily implement it-s-PC changes 20:08:47 marcus: I can work on it in git directly, if it's allright with you 20:08:56 #action Work on default wallpaper 20:09:05 anditosan: like this ^^^ 20:09:13 i am not sure who can provide you git access 20:09:18 exactly my friend! 20:09:22 it-s-PC: ping coolo I think 20:10:06 it-s-PC: coolo, yaloki, jos, rlihm, vuntz..there's quite a list of admins actually http://gitorious.org/+opensuse-developers 20:10:13 I see someone has just posted an idea for a wallpaper on our FB Group Page. We need to figure out a way to channel them into this team 20:10:38 suseROCKs, good! I can take a look at it and contact the artist :D 20:11:09 suseROCKs: https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/groups/14741/artwork/ and pay attention to new people there 20:11:33 ok, it seems that there are no other tasks to be set now, can we agree to move on to the next section? 20:11:46 agreed 20:12:05 * suseROCKs disagrees just to be rebellious and annoy Ilmehtar 20:12:16 #topic Ideas and Goals Discussion 20:12:44 ok I have a question before we move on 20:12:44 we all have some ideas about artwork and the team. I heard one from it-s-PC recently and we would like to hear some more about it 20:13:00 it-s-PC could you propose the idea we discussed? 20:13:03 especially since I just walked into the meeting :-) 20:13:04 i still got the idea to offer a little gift for the winning concept (at least next time), e.g. a bamboo tablet or something like that 20:13:12 anditosan: we discussed a few of those :) 20:13:27 it-s-PC, hehe then the most relevant? 20:13:41 sorry guys, before that suseROCKs has a question? 20:13:51 Are we only discussing relating to 12.1 artwork or general artwork stuff? 20:13:53 well as i mentioned before I would like to make sure there are better guidelines in place, but this is a long term goal 20:14:03 suseROCKs, nostly 12.2 20:14:10 ops I meant 12.2 :-) 20:14:19 suseROCKs, yes 20:14:42 suseROCKs, we are coming to the general discussion now with ideas and then later with our Q&A 20:14:45 The reason I ask is because we will have a request very soon to the artwork team to design some posters for distribution beginning March 1 to promote the openSUSE Conference in Orlando 20:14:49 I think that having a general per release design idea would help improve the aim of the team in general 20:14:58 ok then I will hold off until then 20:15:13 for instance, you know how Ubuntu got those release names? 20:15:19 suseROCKs, camy agrees with you 20:15:21 it-s-PC: we have release names in openSUSE 20:15:39 I know, but they are internal for the dev team 20:16:01 and they are mostly ugly ;) 20:16:03 I would like to propose our own "release name" just for the art team 20:16:11 marcus, +1 20:16:12 it-s-PC: asparagus isn't awesome enough? ;-) 20:16:19 hrhr 20:16:26 anditosan: jdd added all that he can recognize as operators to the artwork group on connect :) 20:16:41 how this will work is that - right before the new release cycle we would get together and pick a "theme" to follow for the release 20:16:44 simon123, thanks so much! 20:16:55 we already defeated the idea of using the green of asparagus, successfully 20:17:03 for instance if we had a theme like "Origami" for this release 20:17:15 it would make everyone's life so much easier 20:17:19 in terms of creating a wallpaper 20:17:40 one common ground we agreed on was that it has to be green 20:17:45 making sure the whole of distro looks somewhat "origami-ish" 20:17:46 etc 20:18:10 I'm not debating the base color :) 20:18:21 it-s-PC, +1 20:18:29 then i would suggest to find better internal names and use these 20:18:36 not just a name for the art team. 20:18:39 I'm proposing a design detection set 20:18:49 I'm not so sure.. 20:19:04 I think we shouldn't impose on the dev team 20:19:10 don't get me wrong, I like the idea, I get where you're coming from and if we were a larger team, I'd be fully behind it 20:19:17 who obviously has their own agenda 20:19:30 Ilmehtar: it has nothing to do with the team size 20:19:42 however, we're not a large team, and this is the first time we've been able to really get a solid number of submissions from the wider community to consider as part of the artwork process 20:19:45 Ilmehtar: I mean right now look at the wallpaper submissions you got 20:19:52 it-s-PC: a design detection set ?? 20:19:56 it-s-PC: go on :) 20:20:18 it-s-PC, I like the idea of having a theme for the team. I would suggest however to make sure that contributions made by new members be directed that way too. Many times they are new to the team and do not know about these ideas. 20:20:30 Ilmehtar: there is no basic idea there. they are all just random splashes of someone's creative mind 20:20:34 Ilmehtar: but, if there was an idea behind it 20:20:45 it would make the artist's life so much easier 20:20:59 it-s-PC: what's wrong with the random splashes? hmm.. 20:21:08 Ilmehtar: they are random 20:21:16 Ilmehtar: theming a distro is not easy 20:21:18 so you're saying, you think we got less submissions than we could have, because we weren't giving potential artists a starting point to begin making their submissions from? 20:21:19 Ilmehtar: you sit there not sure where to start 20:21:25 Ilmehtar: where to get inspiration from 20:21:29 Ilmehtar: what should it look like 20:21:46 Ilmehtar: absolutely 20:21:55 Ilmehtar: here is an example 20:22:15 Ilmehtar: I come to you and say Ilmehtar - make me a picture 20:22:23 no no, I get ya 20:22:25 Ilmehtar: how do you know what to do now? 20:22:29 and I see your point 20:22:41 Ilmehtar: but then if I asked you to make me a picture of a sunset - now you have a basic idea 20:22:54 but I'll counter with this - I agree, we should have a theme, but I'd like to still accept submissions that dont match that theme too 20:23:01 it-s-PC, Ilmehtar, at the same time, having a theme helps branding. People can recignize openSUSE better through unified visual cues 20:23:04 clues 20:23:26 I'm not sure if theme = branding 20:23:42 anditosan: note for bot, ask coolo if he accept to share the creation of release name, perhaps it's boring him afterall ? 20:23:46 ah no, branding has nothing to do with this :) 20:23:47 Ilmehtar, for sure! I am also trying to see if more artists join us that way. I offer my help to the new people all the time 20:23:48 ok, guys i am off for now. let me know if you need something. 20:24:00 marcus: good day 20:24:04 branding is a consistency throughout all releases, whereas a theme is unique to a specific release (or event) 20:24:09 tigerfoot, noted! 20:24:30 #action, request coolo to unite release code names with the artwork theme idea 20:24:37 * tigerfoot think mantis is a bug, and should be put like it is in bugzilla ... 20:24:53 you guys know that all these #commands aren't working without bugbot being opped? 20:24:59 suseROCKs, I might not have used the right lingo here, but it is what you said 20:25:02 ..... 20:25:02 Ilmehtar: obviously we can't stop the newcomers from submitting what they want :) 20:25:11 cucumber would have offer a large palette of green :D 20:25:23 anditosan: can you op bugbot please :) 20:25:31 good night marcus. 20:25:41 tigerfoot, but large cucumber may not be the right intention for some genders :-) 20:25:43 it-s-PC: well then i'm cool with the idea.. 20:25:49 I tried! let me check again... 20:25:53 anyways. this is the first suggestion 20:26:13 anditosan, type /op bugbot 20:26:14 1) common design direction per release cycle 20:26:50 and then I would also like to start a contest "My Dream OpenSuSE" :) 20:26:53 #info opping the bugbot is kind of important 20:27:20 where anyone (not just designers) would show us what you perceive as best SuSE for them 20:27:27 it-s-PC: Dreamed openSUSE, that's inspire me 20:27:47 the point is to get a feel of what the community wants to see 20:28:01 it-s-PC: nope not that... 20:28:16 tigerfoot: what? 20:28:28 you're too young, and doesn't have to read all awfull thread we have on ML ... 20:28:54 it-s-PC: to keep sometimes a sane brain, you have to not know what community want :D 20:28:56 tigerfoot: not sure what you mean there 20:29:18 tigerfoot, are you implying we're insane? :-) 20:29:20 otherwise, we only will have kinda of Dali's design 20:29:25 #action marcus - kdm stuff 20:29:46 #action anditosan - resize wallpapers and prep them for packaging 20:29:49 suseROCKs: absolutely ... all the other knows already that fact about you and me ... 20:29:49 that's the reason I want this "action" under way :) 20:29:55 to know what people want 20:29:57 #action Richard to work on using current lightrays draft in bootsplash and gnome-dynamic wallpaper, and then get branding package built for MS1 20:30:05 #action it-s to Work on default wallpaper 20:30:14 * tigerfoot prepare a new filter for mail :D 20:30:14 tigerfoot, But why imply the obvious? Just state it. We are insane! EOD! :-) 20:30:23 so, we are not like Ubuntu, where comunity wants a), and distro delivers x) 20:30:59 it-s-PC: nope hopefully, community want everything, and its opposite, so we offer none :D 20:31:25 LOL with pleasure 20:31:31 init 3 20:31:31 it-s-PC: it's a worthy goal..but iwhat if the community wants abcefghiklmnopqrstuvwxyz - and we can only deliver a 20:31:44 tigerfoot, I believe if we all agree on something first at the artwork team, many will see that a certain design idea is sticking with part of the community. It could make people's attitudes change 20:31:47 there is never such thing :) 20:32:04 there is a common consensus between the users of a set tool 20:32:14 :) 20:32:29 it-s-PC: replace users, by contributors, and we agree :D 20:32:47 I don't think that's fair 20:32:53 tigerfoot: common consensus between contributors? in openSUSE? are you serious? you KDE hugging hippy! :-p 20:33:10 OpenSuSE has a ton of users outside of the contributing community 20:33:30 * suseROCKs gently reminds it-s-PC that it is "openSUSE" 20:33:35 Ilmehtar: I've only one dreamed openSUSE, have gtk program using my qt/kde widget when I need to save or open a file :D 20:33:44 it-s-PC, I think the best test of that would be to send out an email to the community about it. You will notice trends but the community is very spread as to what they would like to see. I have asked myself :D 20:33:49 it-s-PC: what I'm trying to illustrate with my poor attempts at humour in teasing tigerfoot, is, opensUSE is a bit of a weird community where differences are actually embraced 20:34:16 tigerfoot: awesome! you can communicate that :) 20:34:38 it-s-PC: it's more than that, I'm fighting to get it real :D 20:34:47 we're the distro for people who want KDE *and* GNOME, who want to use the same distro for their home computer as their servers, we cater for the crazier ideas while also trying to provide a baseline standard platform for general use 20:35:05 tigerfoot: I'm with you there :) getting read of that awful Gnome file opener would be a blessing! 20:35:14 with crappy hack sometimes, and big hopes that nobody want gnome 3, so only kde-framework 5 will survive :D 20:35:16 We're the distro that tries to be everything for everyone 20:35:28 Ilmehtar: I offer you a beer friday, I promise 20:35:38 both KDE and Gnome are nothing but desktop environments. and as such they can be made look quite similar 20:35:40 so assuming that our userbase, or our contributor base, has a common consensus..is something I find humorous 20:35:50 I don't necessarily want to see which desktop people want 20:35:56 but how they see it 20:36:01 the only thing I think openSUSE users and contributors have in common is that we have little in common apart from the fact we're using openSUSE :) 20:36:11 I dont want my GNOME to look like KDE 20:36:18 I want KDE to look like KDE and I want GNOME to act like GNOME.. 20:36:29 it-s-PC: okay I get your point, and that's why I thank oxygen guy for the oxygen gtk3 theme 20:36:32 Ilmehtar: you missed the point 20:36:58 Ilmehtar, Quit missing the point! 20:37:00 I want to have a kinda of unity in my work process. 20:37:23 then I can forgive dev to use gtk in place of qt/kde 20:37:25 :D 20:37:36 imagine for a second to be desktop agnostic. if you are using GNOME imagine there is no KDE at all, and if you use KDE imagine there is no GNOME, etc 20:37:56 the second part sound nice :D 20:38:04 i can imagine that, but doing so misses my point, but I'll humor you so please continue 20:38:05 * suseROCKs can only imagine the former 20:38:22 so while being desktop agnostic imagine what would you like your desktop to look like 20:38:28 * anditosan I don't have imagination, lol 20:38:37 like a osx lion :D 20:38:43 okay, go on 20:38:47 * tigerfoot run away 20:38:49 an imaginary desktop X 20:38:50 like BeOS 20:39:02 tigerfoot: very good! 20:39:05 yeah Be was cool 20:39:20 anditosan: great! 20:39:21 it-s-PC: no no I was joking, I prefer my kde look 20:39:24 * anditosan tigerfoot and I are best friends now! 20:39:35 well it's really MY kde look 20:39:57 now I have tow points of input "OSXlike" "BEOSLike" and I can analyze both to find similarities 20:40:07 * tigerfoot needs something like 4 days to finish a fresh kde to act, react and look like I want 20:40:08 I dont want an imaginary desktop X though.. I like my GNOME 3 desktop, I embrace what that entails, the differences it has from other desktops, and I think there is nothing wrong with openSUSE offering that whole suite of offerings...difference isn't bad :) 20:40:35 tigerfoot, so true! 20:40:50 but what's cool, is I can if I want ... 20:40:51 Ilmehtar: and still after our discussion I know that you dislike the default GNOME3 app launcher 20:40:55 I should point out that there's a few themes being packaged with GNOME 3.4 which for some reason cannot run in test in 3.2. 20:41:03 just let me my freedom ... look at my car :D 20:41:26 so whatever you're doing may require a bit of retesting once 3.4 development in factory is ready soon 20:41:26 Ilmehtar: and that gave me a few pointers 20:41:28 anyhow 20:41:32 that was the idea No 2 20:41:42 to get the feel of the community 20:41:54 ok, thank you it-s-PC 20:42:04 and indirectly get some people to get a feel of how contributing works 20:42:10 are there any other ideas that we would like to propose before moving on? 20:42:11 it-s-PC: I think the most easy is a kinda of contest like show me your desktop 20:42:27 tigerfoot, agreed! 20:42:28 tigerfoot: works! 20:42:38 easy and simple to end user to submit a print screen 20:42:42 tigerfoot: you see it's the kind of contest where anything goes 20:42:56 tigerfoot: if you are happy with your desktop - show me your desktop 20:43:26 for those who want to 20:43:34