19:02:57 <bmwiedemann> #startmeeting
19:02:57 <bugbot> Meeting started Tue Dec  6 19:02:57 2011 UTC.  The chair is bmwiedemann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:57 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:03:06 <anditosan> thanks you all :D
19:03:10 <bmwiedemann> #chart anditosan
19:03:15 <bmwiedemann> #chair anditosan
19:03:15 <bugbot> Current chairs: anditosan bmwiedemann
19:03:28 <anditosan> bmwiedemann, you're the man! thanks
19:03:40 <anditosan> ok, then
19:03:53 <suseROCKs> and whatever you do, please remember to type #endmeeting at the end!  :-)
19:04:05 <suseROCKs> now repeat the topics so it gets in the transcript log
19:04:06 <Ilmehtar> (he's speaking from experience)
19:04:36 <yaloki> no need to repeat the agenda, just start each point with #topic …
19:04:36 <anditosan> topics repeat
19:04:42 <anditosan> 1. team get to know
19:04:46 <anditosan> 2. Team Organization
19:04:50 <anditosan> 3. Abilities Assessment
19:04:54 <anditosan> 4. Insterest (design)
19:04:58 <anditosan> . Design Goals (only if there is enough time)
19:05:04 <anditosan> 6. Design goals for next release (very on the surface)
19:05:09 <anditosan> 7. Long term design goals, or team goals
19:05:14 <anditosan> 8. Q and A
19:05:24 <anditosan> ok, then topic one
19:05:40 <anditosan> let me ask you to introduce yourserlf briefly, we would like to get to know everyone that's one the channel, as well as welcome the ones who are joining us.
19:05:55 <anditosan> who can start?
19:05:56 <bmwiedemann> #topic 1. Team Get-To-Know
19:06:01 <anditosan> heheh thanks
19:06:11 <Ilmehtar> alphabetical, you first!
19:06:15 <suseROCKs> bugbot needs to be opped before #topic works
19:07:14 <jdd> I'm jdd, mostly interested by making video tutorials, but also early tester. No real "artistic" knowledge
19:08:04 <anditosan> #topic 1. Get to Know
19:08:10 <anditosan> anditosan, Andres Silva, from Chile. Live in the US. Help openSUSE with concept artwork. It's my b-day today, so thanks :D. Next...
19:08:36 <yaloki> I'm Pascal, not good at artwork itself but moderately skilled at inkscape and I'm here just for general support and to keep up with what's going on :)
19:08:39 <suseROCKs> #info   anditosan is 54 today!
19:08:57 <bmwiedemann> congrats :)
19:09:03 <manugupt1> Congrats and
19:09:04 <anditosan> #info incorrect, I am 28. suseROCKs gets his age everywhere
19:09:10 <yaloki> (and if you want to know more, I wrote a book about myself for the board elections lol)
19:09:17 <anditosan> lol
19:09:25 <anditosan> bmwiedemann, your turn
19:09:27 <anditosan> :D
19:09:30 <yaloki> anditosan: ye olde bastard, congrats :)
19:09:42 <anditosan> lol, thanks
19:10:03 <yaloki> folks, just shoot, IRC is line by line anyway :)
19:10:10 <warlordfff> I am Kostas
19:10:12 <bmwiedemann> I'm 33, software developer at SUSE/Nuremberg, my wife is great at painting (see http://kati.silberwellensee.de/ ) but I am good at making ugly art :)
19:10:19 <subhashish> have  a great day anditosan
19:10:22 <warlordfff> and I have nothing to do with art
19:10:28 <warlordfff> and I am 12
19:10:33 <yaloki> bmwiedemann: true, you have that on your CV? :D
19:10:46 <suseROCKs> Bryen here... just an observer and to offer any input on marketing-related discussions here
19:10:53 <bear454> o/
19:11:03 <yaloki> bear454: ohai
19:11:03 <bmwiedemann> I made and maintain http://openqa.opensuse.org for automated testing, but it is also good to see the current artwork and to generate videos for marketing/press
19:11:12 <yaloki> bmwiedemann: +1
19:11:13 <manugupt1> I am Manu, Not a great artist jumps around the corners and sometimes get my hand dirty though I have not done till now
19:11:25 <manugupt1> bmwiedemann: +1
19:11:33 * bear454 begs forgiveness for a flaky connection
19:11:38 <Ilmehtar> I'm Richard, 29, aka Ilmehtar aka Sysrich aka the guy who cant pronounce his own IRC nick. I have no idea what I'm doing here (okay that's a lie) - I used to critique/moan about artwork, started using inkscape to draw my ideas in the hope some 'proper artist' would be able to finish them off, and found I kinda enjoy it
19:11:46 <bmwiedemann> e.g. LinuxActionShow had my video in their openSUSE-12.1 review (around minute 35)
19:11:48 <bear454> I'm on a bus to the airport
19:12:12 <anditosan> bear454, oh man! hold on!!!
19:12:52 <bmwiedemann> who is next?
19:13:04 * bear454 is a developer on SUSE Studio, and an avid digital artist
19:13:06 <anditosan> CarlosRibeiro. :D
19:13:12 <CarlosRibeiro_> great to know some new ones and some old friends, for the new guys for me (I was out of here for my last 5 months),
19:13:16 <CarlosRibeiro_> I worked as professional designer for 6 years when I was 15, and today I'm 34 not more working as graphical designer but 100% focused in openSUSE/SUSE. I helped to creat the Cool folders artwork, also some scale tshits, banners, folders. Also I helped with some artwork for news.o.o at least I hope to be able to contribute with team as much as possible
19:13:51 <yaloki> CarlosRibeiro_: hi carlos :)
19:14:08 <CarlosRibeiro_> also OI contributed with bug reports, some big, small and mediuns events and my blog is here http://softwarelivre.org/usesuse/blog
19:14:16 <subhashish> Hello, I'm subhashish - Subhashish Pradhan from India; have an artistic eye being a somewhat-good painter; just got started in digital artwok by strting with gimp and opensuse-artwork.
19:14:40 <CarlosRibeiro_> yaloki: hello mate, nice to see you man.. You have no idea how much I know about you :D pretty cool
19:14:53 <anditosan> ok, anyone else would like to introduce himself that has not already done so?
19:14:54 <yaloki> subhashish: cool, welcome to the club :)
19:14:57 <subhashish> nice to see you all \0/
19:15:01 <subhashish> thanks yaloki
19:15:15 <yaloki> subhashish: hint, hint: inkscape ;D
19:15:16 <CarlosRibeiro_> nice team
19:15:19 <anditosan> Is it ok if we move on?
19:15:25 <yaloki> wait
19:15:35 <yaloki> I think there are two people we're essentially missing here today
19:15:40 <yaloki> but whom are important to the artwork team
19:15:56 <anditosan> yaloki, can you mention them quikly? :D
19:16:00 <manugupt1> garett and rlihm
19:16:00 <yaloki> it's Robert Lihm (nickname rlihm), who works for SUSE, and is a professional designer (not quite the same as artwork)
19:16:19 <yaloki> true, Garret, for as far as he's still involved in artwork for openSUSE, not sure
19:16:28 <yaloki> and then Marcus Moeller, who did the artwork for 12.1
19:16:30 <CarlosRibeiro_> yaloki: and bruno are missing too
19:16:31 <AlanClark> anditosan - I'm here, but don't need to take time for introduce.  I love inkscape, can't draw a straight line, am a grey hair 29 ;-)
19:16:45 <anditosan> I believe they mentioned in ML that they could not attend, so we will miss them today but we will make sure they get the notes
19:16:52 <yaloki> yes indeed, bruno (tigerfoot) isn't here either
19:16:56 <warlordfff> AlanClark:  Are you 29?
19:16:59 <anditosan> yeah
19:17:06 <warlordfff> I thought you were around 25 :D
19:17:11 <anditosan> AlanClark, you're older by one year than I am. Congrats :D
19:17:16 <yaloki> anditosan: sure, just to round up on the team :)
19:17:17 <bear454> In his dreams
19:17:19 <CarlosRibeiro_> maybe he is not good designer producer, but he mention to be part here and contribute with his crazy ideas
19:17:19 <anditosan> ok, good to move one?
19:17:37 <anditosan> all agree to move on?
19:17:42 <AlanClark> warlordfff: ;-)
19:17:43 <jdd> go
19:17:46 <yaloki> anditosan: please go on :)
19:17:47 <CarlosRibeiro_> go
19:17:49 <anditosan> #topic Team Organization
19:18:29 <anditosan> This one might be hard to firgure out in one hour but, who of the attendants is able to take in requests and either put them on git, or actually code the artwork into the distribution?
19:19:09 <yaloki> I can commit to git
19:19:20 <yaloki> as far as the distribution is concerned, it's "just" a matter of packaging
19:19:25 <manugupt1> I can but not now for the moment as I have b/w limits
19:19:25 <anditosan> ok
19:19:30 <yaloki> and synchronizing with the release team (e.g. coolo)
19:19:41 <anditosan> yaloki, that is good info
19:19:45 <yaloki> I can definitely help with packaging, and Ilmehtar has some experience with that too, specifically on the artwork iirc
19:19:56 <anditosan> ok, this is the reason for the question
19:19:57 <Ilmehtar> yes, I did quite a bit of the packaging for the 12.1 stuff
19:20:18 <bmwiedemann> can I get commit-permission?
19:20:42 <anditosan> the artwork team generates, in a sense, a lot of interest from art ethusiasts. However, they mey not be acquainted with our methods just yet, yet they have  great potential into making significat art contributions to the team
19:20:47 <anditosan> and to the distribution
19:20:50 <yaloki> #info for everyone who wants write access to the git repository, please just send an email to admin@opensuse.org
19:20:54 <yaloki> I'll pick it up from there
19:21:01 <yaloki> meh, I'm not a chair:\
19:21:16 <bmwiedemann> #chair yaloki
19:21:16 <bugbot> Current chairs: anditosan bmwiedemann yaloki
19:21:21 <yaloki> #info for everyone who wants write access to the git repository, please just send an email to admin@opensuse.org
19:21:21 <anditosan> we would like to be extra welcoming to our new contributors in assisting them make the contributions
19:21:35 <suseROCKs> one thing I'd like to mention as part of the organizaiton/prioritization concept....
19:21:36 <yaloki> bmwiedemann: so just bug me on admin@o.o please :) (need to know your github user)
19:21:47 <anditosan> suseROCKs, please go ahead
19:21:50 <suseROCKs> I think its good to be more organized on distro artwork.   We need that, but at the same time...
19:22:01 <suseROCKs> we should realize that artwork is not just limited to distro stuff
19:22:08 <yaloki> indeed
19:22:15 <jdd> I probably have write access to git, but not at all confident with it
19:22:17 <suseROCKs> and that's been something sorely lackinig in the past
19:22:17 <CarlosRibeiro_> right
19:22:21 <manugupt1> Well said suseROCKs :)
19:22:31 <bear454> Are we using a repo on github now, or still the ones on gitorious?
19:22:31 <anditosan> agreed!
19:22:36 <Ilmehtar> bear454: github
19:22:38 <yaloki> bear454: github
19:22:56 <yaloki> if anyone needs help with git, poke me, or Ilmehtar, or tigerfoot (bruno)
19:23:04 <Ilmehtar> subhashish: agreed, I've been pushing hard to remind people of that..the marketing side of things in particularly (and anditosan and I have done a lot of work doing artwork for -marketing along those lines)
19:23:05 * manugupt1 thinks we need a better access place as 2 gigs of downloading becomes out of question if anytime out of sync
19:23:30 <yaloki> manugupt1: yes, but that's a topic of its own, it shouldn't be 2GB in the first place
19:23:37 <yaloki> but that topic is not on the agenda :)
19:23:38 <anditosan> Likely, we would need to sign up for taking, or rather making ourselves responsible, for artwork requests from other teams
19:23:46 <anditosan> especially Marketing
19:23:51 * subhashish passes Ilmehtar's comment to suseROCKs
19:23:52 <manugupt1> yaloki: sorry offtopic
19:23:54 <CarlosRibeiro_> I believe as a artwork team, we need to support news.oo, marketing, project, pr, ambasadors
19:24:04 <yaloki> do we have some sort of plan of what would be needed in terms of artwork for marketing then ?
19:24:10 <yaloki> if not, then that's something to think about
19:24:20 <yaloki> (maybe use bugzilla or something similar)
19:24:25 <anditosan> suseROCKs, what do you say if we keep this topic and sign ourselves up for this type of art over ML?
19:24:27 <CarlosRibeiro_> and distro is just a piece of all thinks I believe we need to take care
19:24:38 <warlordfff> I think Gnome is Using Bugzila for artwork
19:24:44 <yaloki> okay
19:24:48 <bear454> CarlosRibeiro_: AGREED
19:24:51 <Ilmehtar> marketing materials - Presentations, CD Sleeves, Posters, Leaflets..am I forgetting anything?
19:24:51 <jdd> we should here define a place to ask (artwork mailing list?)
19:25:03 <yaloki> well, it's not about tool fetishism, but it's easier to have a list of requests and know whom is working on what
19:25:10 <manugupt1> bear454: We are only a few memebes so most important areas should be focussed first
19:25:13 <anditosan> yaloki, probably the best is to have artwork take on reposibilities now and over time split ourselves into teams.
19:25:19 <suseROCKs> Ilmehtar,  that's the general bit,  but also artwork for news.o.o and other "as-needed" stuff
19:25:23 <jdd> photos, screen shots, tutorials, videos...
19:25:32 <suseROCKs> we don't have any quick-response opportunities
19:25:34 <Ilmehtar> also, here is a question we've had asked before but never really resolved - what do you all think, should our marketing artwork be related to the distribution artwork, or should we consider an approach of 'version neutral' marketing materials?
19:25:50 <manugupt1> Vesion Neutral imho
19:25:51 <suseROCKs> requests sent to ML seem to die
19:25:55 <yaloki> anditosan: well, you will be interacting with a lot of people (who are asking for artwork, or taking care of the packaging, etc...), so some sort of communication tool will be very helpful to track the state of things, what's TODO, etc...
19:26:03 <anditosan> suseROCKs, understood
19:26:11 <bear454> Ilmehtar: IMO that depends on the work.
19:26:15 <anditosan> yaloki, true that
19:26:16 <yaloki> suseROCKs: define "quick-response opportunities" ?
19:26:25 <CarlosRibeiro_> bear454: +1
19:26:56 <jdd> version: most version neutral, but any new openSUSE have to get some original artwork
19:27:12 <bear454> Some materials can be long-lived, and should be neutral
19:27:14 <anditosan> jdd, that's a good thought
19:27:18 <CarlosRibeiro_> I believe we need to create a kind of templates and stardards for both situations
19:27:18 <yaloki> arguably, if the artwork is properly authored (layers, inkscape, ...), then it's really easy to swap out the release, the motto, etc...
19:27:35 <suseROCKs> yaloki,  "I need some graphics for news..o.o"  or "I have this poster concept in mind  can someone help design it?"     Those are things that typically dont' get responded to.   What does morelikely get responded to are distro artwork stuff
19:27:40 <bear454> but obviously things like counter.o.o should reflect release art
19:27:49 <yaloki> suseROCKs: okay, understood, thanks
19:27:54 <suseROCKs> not  a criticism of that, just we don't have an artwork team that is equipped right now to think beyond distro
19:27:56 <Ilmehtar> I personally Iike the idea of both.. version neutral stuff is great, but, lets say for example presentation templates, which rare likely to be talking about a specific openSUSE version, would probably look better looking liek they derive from that version
19:28:21 <suseROCKs> Ilmehtar,   yes
19:28:22 <yaloki> Ilmehtar: a discussion to have, indeed
19:28:32 <anditosan> suseROCKs, could we crash one of the marketing team meetings and assess the artwork needs?
19:28:52 <subhashish> coming to distro I think that shipping of only one distro-branded wallpaper may seem strange..
19:29:06 <suseROCKs> anditosan,   that isn't that simple.   a marketing team meeting wouldn't know of something that's needed 2 months from now.
19:29:13 <yaloki> #info discuss openSUSE release neutrality of artwork: depends on the purpose, and the issue can be alleviated with properly authored artwork (gimp layers, inkscape, ...)
19:29:54 <anditosan> suseROCKs, I see, mostly to understand the "type" of needs they generate and then we could see in our team who is likely to take those requests.
19:30:01 <yaloki> subhashish: we can ship several, of course, but one needs to be the default and what is reflected in e.g. counter.o.o, marketing material, …
19:30:10 <yaloki> subhashish: just for consistency
19:30:16 <jdd> let artists give free ideas, then pick in them?
19:30:26 <yaloki> anditosan: yes, we're back to some sort of tracking :)
19:30:41 <anditosan> yaloki, good
19:30:48 <yaloki> jdd: on each individual thing, of course, but that "list of things" is what we're discussing
19:31:03 <yaloki> we won't solve anything right now, let's collect ideas and tasks, and go on :)
19:31:11 <Ilmehtar> subhashish: for 12.1 we do have a package of additional 12.1 wallpapers but they're hidden away in a rarely used repository :)
19:31:17 <bear454> Iissues on github?
19:31:25 <anditosan> ok, let's have these concerns be defined more in detail. I will be sending out an email about it. We can determine the needs of artwork from other teams and then see how we can integrate those into our artwork team
19:31:33 <anditosan> would that be ok for you all?
19:31:37 <jdd> ok
19:31:38 <bear454> Seems like a nice integrated way to collect requests
19:31:45 <yaloki> #info we should fix the packaging of distro wallpapers: the additional ones are hidden away in a rarely used repository for 12.1
19:31:53 <yaloki> bear454: indeed
19:32:06 <subhashish> so shouldn't the repository be changed to one of the default ones included in the distro Ilmehtar ?
19:32:08 <yaloki> #info investigate using github's issue ticketing for tracking of artwork tasks
19:32:14 <manugupt1> yaloki: If we can have some templated spec files for gnome and kde.. just wondering
19:32:17 <anditosan> yaloki, noted!
19:32:19 <anditosan> :D
19:32:23 <yaloki> manugupt1: possibly
19:32:37 <yaloki> manugupt1: but as said, Ilmehtar and I (and certainly others too) can take care of the packaging
19:32:46 <anditosan> it may seem we can continue this conversation more in detail on ml. Do you agree to move one/
19:32:48 <anditosan> ?
19:32:54 <yaloki> anditosan: yes please
19:32:55 <manugupt1> Ok.. later then
19:33:11 <yaloki> manugupt1: yes, packaging is at the end of the process anyway
19:33:25 <Ilmehtar> our artwork branding packages are really fun, if a little arcane compared to normal pckages :)..lots of scripting so it takes on design and carves it up into all the formats we need in the package
19:33:30 <anditosan> #topic Skipping Anilities Assessment, we know that already. Interest Assessment
19:33:30 <yaloki> manugupt1: can be made really simple once set up, thanks to OBS
19:33:39 <CarlosRibeiro_> can we have a easy step-by-step packing guide with focus on artwork team and needs
19:33:50 <yaloki> CarlosRibeiro_: difficult
19:33:54 <anditosan> in this section, please state what type of design subjects interest you
19:34:01 <manugupt1> yaloki: yes.. I was thinking to have the spec file to wiki and something like get your artwork in a repo and mark the artwork repo as a devel project
19:34:05 <anditosan> #info in this section, please state what type of design subjects interest you
19:34:31 <yaloki> manugupt1: maybe. we can think of how to handle that some time later, when we have artwork for the next distro version :)
19:34:42 <anditosan> I like nature and photography, I like real pictures for artwork. Next :D
19:35:16 <yaloki> me, none, but I can help giving details about the technical nature (SVG vs bitmaps, packaging, batch rendering, ...)
19:35:41 <yaloki> (and licensing!)
19:35:46 <yaloki> licensing is a very important topic
19:35:46 <anditosan> yaloki, thank you
19:36:05 <anditosan> anyone else? :D
19:36:23 <CarlosRibeiro_> hey me
19:36:24 <bmwiedemann> I do some photography ... and then there is my wife painting
19:36:28 <suseROCKs> I suggest someone volunteer to write a good wiki overview of the importance of licensing and how you should license your works
19:36:40 <jdd> i'm interested in the licence question
19:36:46 <anditosan> suseROCKs, very good idea. Noted!
19:36:54 <Ilmehtar> I have pretty broad tastes and enjoy experimenting - I already have concepts for 12.2 that include photography and lazers.. and vectored circles..as you can see, nothing in common.
19:37:00 <bmwiedemann> CC-BY-SA license should work?
19:37:00 <suseROCKs> some of us create work and just give to openSUSE not fully realizing it needs more than just to give.
19:37:03 <jdd> i can do
19:37:04 <yaloki> suseROCKs: which license, not sure that has been debated actually, think we somehow came to CC-BY-SA
19:37:16 <yaloki> s/suseROCKs/Ilmehtar/
19:37:19 <CarlosRibeiro_> I like to see more design I mean, I'm not so good with photos, pic, but I understand that I good wuth layouts, design and 3D models
19:37:32 <bear454> I do some photographic work, but I'm more comfortable in Inkscape, and alright working for print media
19:37:34 <yaloki> CarlosRibeiro_: definitely :)
19:37:35 <Ilmehtar> and like yaloki, strong interest in all the technical side, getting these artworks usable and implemented, packaging and licensing, etc etc
19:37:40 <suseROCKs> yaloki,   sure.  But what about when we create work that we want to give exclusively to openSUSE and not to the entire world?
19:37:42 * Ilmehtar suddenly thinks he likes being involved in too much
19:37:42 <CarlosRibeiro_> so I think I can contribute helping to transfrm great pieces in wonderfull arts
19:37:47 <subhashish> i like abstract designed artwork but at the same time nature's beauty serve as good artwork; currently comfortable in gimp
19:37:48 <yaloki> suseROCKs: do we
19:38:01 <yaloki> suseROCKs: ok, so we need to have a discussion about the licensing options
19:38:07 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: while I'm not sure we have an official policy, CC-BY-SA has been how I've licensed everything of mine
19:38:08 <manugupt1> I can help in Packaging myself but that is at the end of the day
19:38:12 <suseROCKs> if I'm giving my photography to openSUSE  I don't want it to be used elsewhere until openSUSE first uses it.
19:38:19 <anditosan> yaloki, we can. I will note it for our next meeting.
19:38:22 <suseROCKs> that's my personal artistic feeling about my works
19:38:27 <yaloki> #info we need to have a discussion (ML) about licensing the artwork, and which options we have (e.g. if we want some of the artwork to be usable only for openSUSE)
19:38:39 <subhashish> yaloki, agreed
19:38:45 <yaloki> oh, and then there is the trademark :)
19:38:48 <anditosan> suseROCKs, Yaloki, good points. Thank you
19:38:50 <jdd> may we discuss the licencing elsewhere
19:38:56 <yaloki> wonder whether we need to clarify anything on that
19:39:09 <anditosan> ok, thanks for your expressing your interests in artwork
19:39:12 <anditosan> may we move on?
19:39:14 <jdd> just the three last minutes show why
19:39:15 <yaloki> #info do we need clarification on the right to use the openSUSE trademarks ?
19:39:25 <jdd> yes, also
19:39:28 <anditosan> yaloki, likely :D
19:39:46 <jdd> let's use the mailing list for this?
19:39:49 <anditosan> may we move on? what do you all say? :D
19:39:52 <yaloki> jdd: sure
19:40:01 <subhashish> yea
19:40:01 <yaloki> I just wanted to keep it as a point in the meeting log
19:40:27 <jdd> go on
19:40:31 <anditosan> #topic Design Goals. Please state how do you envision openSUSE as a distribution that has good design and artwork. What do you see in it?
19:41:02 <suseROCKs> that's not a simple topic  :-)
19:41:03 <bmwiedemann> it should be pleasing to the eye. unobtrusive...
19:41:09 <yaloki> smooth, polished, and integration (same artwork for different desktop environments, that's something most other distros don't care about at all)
19:41:18 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: to add to your point, it seems the 'correct' artworks for the openSUSE logo are hard to find..they're not on the wiki.. (we have old ones with tm, not correct ones with (c) )
19:41:37 <yaloki> Ilmehtar: they're in the "official" git repo, under 00assets/
19:41:42 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: no, they're not
19:41:43 <suseROCKs> Ilmehtar,   I think lawyers said we  have to use (TM)
19:41:45 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: those, also, are wrong
19:41:47 <jdd> the 12.1 artwork is really good
19:41:48 <CarlosRibeiro_> our germans are better than others gremans - by izabel
19:41:49 <anditosan> smooth, polished. Good fonts, good images, should be a catapult for work, not a stepping stone aka, simplified interface.
19:41:51 <Ilmehtar> suseROCKs: the lawyers said we have to use (c)
19:41:53 <bear454> 1 a solid collection of tools: openSUSE should be the distro artists reach for
19:42:06 <Ilmehtar> suseROCKs: rlihm kept on yelling at me when I did 12.1 artwork using TM
19:42:12 <jdd> use (tm)(c)
19:42:22 <yaloki> and (r) :)
19:42:26 <Ilmehtar> suseROCKs: but we dont have the (c) versions out there publically for anyone to use
19:42:39 <bear454> 2 comunit involvement; revining the aesthetic forstrong appeal
19:42:43 <suseROCKs> (c) doesn't make sense for artowkr.   that's copyright,  isn't that for text?
19:42:45 <subhashish> i feel yast lacks branding.. it is too bare
19:43:01 <jdd> we should also have some contact able to say "yes" use it or "no" don't
19:43:02 <Ilmehtar> suseROCKs: for the logo, geeko+text ..apparently, (c) is correct
19:43:06 <yaloki> subhashish: ugly as hell and causing eye cancer if you ask me ;)
19:43:09 <manugupt1> subhashish: That is something rlihm wants to work upon atleast the openSUSE installer
19:43:15 <subhashish> lol
19:43:18 <jdd> I still have a bugzilla unanswered for month (11.4 :-)
19:43:19 <manugupt1> subhashish: You should speak to him
19:43:25 <subhashish> okay
19:43:33 <yaloki> jdd: that's the board, but we need to find a way to have clear policies, to avoid having to ask the board all the time
19:43:34 <anditosan> awesome guys, thank you for that input
19:43:36 <suseROCKs> i think we better reinvestigate that.  I'm almost certain I was in a conversation at some point where the lawyers said (tm)
19:43:43 <anditosan> are we good to move on?
19:43:45 <jdd> the board do no give answers :-(
19:43:55 <subhashish> no wait anditosan
19:44:00 <yaloki> #info need to clarify whether (tm) or (c) on trademarked artwork
19:44:02 <anditosan> hehe , go ahead friend :D
19:44:10 <suseROCKs> jdd   The board has to be asked a quesiton before it can be given an answer  :-)
19:44:15 <subhashish> what about the sonar theme we lost with gnome 3?
19:44:15 <jdd> go solution is not our :-)
19:44:50 <subhashish> any replacements in line for custom theming with gnome-shell?
19:44:54 <jdd> suseROCKS: I made a bugzilla for that (as instructed) and also sent a mail: no answer
19:45:00 <yaloki> subhashish: from what I've read here and there, someone has at least been working on porting it to gtk3
19:45:03 <jdd> may be they didn't receive it :-)
19:45:04 <anditosan> subhashish, I understand there are a couple of people from artwork who contributed with it. It turned out really good. Although if we were to use tit for next release, we will have to reviewe it in light of this meeting's comments.
19:45:19 <manugupt1> I believe bear454 is one of them
19:45:30 <anditosan> bear454, did you work on "sonar"?
19:45:52 * yaloki brb
19:45:52 <bmwiedemann> yaloki: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Artwork_brand says: openSUSE must have a registered trademark symbol (R).
19:46:07 <bear454> I did a Sonar chrome theme, thats all
19:46:14 <anditosan> thank you
19:46:35 <suseROCKs> bmwiedemann,    yes.    Depending on which piece is actually registered.
19:46:36 <bear454> openSUSE ®©tm
19:46:42 <anditosan> ok, subhashish, let's make a note of that and we can discuss it more in detail with the creators of the theme.
19:46:52 <suseROCKs> (r) for those that were properly filed and (TM) for those that are not filed but "common law"
19:46:53 <subhashish> also we would need a different theme for windows in kde - the oxygen theme is very paiful to the eye
19:47:02 <Ilmehtar> bmwiedemann: oh yes..my mistake..(r) not (c)..either way, all of our assets on the wiki and in git have TM in them and are therefore wrong, and that's my point :)
19:47:12 <bear454> Brb. - need to check into my flight
19:47:17 <subhashish> plus openSUSE would have a different identity..
19:47:24 <subhashish> anditosan, okay
19:47:41 <suseROCKs> #info  bear454  checks into flight to Bermuda triangle
19:47:49 <anditosan> are we good to move on?
19:47:56 <subhashish> yes
19:48:14 <CarlosRibeiro_> anditosan: ok
19:48:22 <jdd> bear454: very nice place for artwork :-)
19:48:45 <anditosan> #topic jumping into Long Term Goals. Please state the ideal opensuse view from other people about our design. What do you think they would say about opensuse's design overall?
19:49:01 <manugupt1> it is openSUSE bugbot
19:49:38 <jdd> openSUSE is the best integrated project ever
19:50:00 <bmwiedemann> would be nice to keep some consistency over releases. like the green, the polished nice look
19:50:16 <subhashish> with the new release cycle openSUSE must have evolutionary artwork for every main.x release
19:50:27 <jdd> get changes smooth and progressives
19:50:38 <subhashish> like evolution in 12.2 and 12.3 inspired by 12.1
19:50:52 <anditosan> #chair Ilmehtar
19:50:52 <bugbot> Current chairs: Ilmehtar anditosan bmwiedemann yaloki
19:51:22 <yaloki> I believe integration is really what is cited most often
19:51:30 <Ilmehtar> bmwiedemann: consistancy..I agree, but how do we do that without being boring?
19:51:32 <bmwiedemann> subhashish: actually, 13.1 should be as close to 12.3 as is 12.2 - major number does not mean anything
19:51:53 <anditosan> I think people will say, "there is nothing lacking in opensuse, and it looks sooo good. A pleasure to work with." Green has never looked so good."
19:52:28 <CarlosRibeiro_> I believe this is a good question to be part of a kind of pool/poll . Like some other questions here, I think is a good idea to have a quickly questionary about openSUSE artwork, publish in some blogs, portals
19:52:35 <yaloki> well, "doing the most awesome artwork" is not really a goal, that's an ideal :)
19:52:45 <anditosan> CarlosRibeiro +1
19:52:59 <anditosan> yaloki, exactly, what is your ideal?
19:53:14 <CarlosRibeiro_> nothing too long or complicated, but I think is a good idea to collect some feddback from outside view, maybe others users from others distros, projects...
19:53:34 <subhashish> bmwiedemann, still in the light of numbering scheme i think that would help differentiate the version nos. atleast
19:53:36 <yaloki> anditosan: consistent, unique (identity), smooth, and integrated
19:53:39 <Ilmehtar> #info investigate using connect/ML/other projects to get wider feedback on Long Term Goals
19:53:54 <bmwiedemann> as I understood, humans can distinguish green shades best (which can make good design hard) - but we can use that to our advantage by using a different green for every release (we already did)
19:54:08 <yaloki> and green is our identity :)
19:54:12 <anditosan> anyone else would like to answer the topic question ?
19:54:18 <anditosan> yaloki, +1
19:54:26 <jdd> we can also have green + other color. Gray was proposed
19:54:29 <yaloki> "Green is good for you" ;)
19:54:32 <jdd> grey
19:54:38 <yaloki> jdd: sure
19:54:44 <anditosan> jdd, those two have always been my favorite for the distro
19:54:46 <yaloki> the installer is green+grey
19:55:01 <yaloki> well, anything works with grey :)
19:55:02 <Ilmehtar> I think after the 12.1 community vote we really must accept that green is the communities choice, at least for now :)
19:55:06 <anditosan> should we revise our color scheme?
19:55:11 <Ilmehtar> anditosan: no
19:55:12 <bmwiedemann> gray/black/white are not really colors - so they are easy to get in. yellowish was also part of openSUSE artwork (11.2)
19:55:23 <Ilmehtar> anditosan: ;-) see what I said right before you asked that ;)
19:55:32 <anditosan> Ilmehtar, noted!
19:55:38 <CarlosRibeiro_> green, yelow, blue, ... I don't think we need to care about this now.
19:55:38 <jdd> green is a starting point, but we can evolve (reasonably)
19:55:48 <Ilmehtar> green is an awesome colour
19:55:51 <CarlosRibeiro_> we need to stablish a way to reintroduce our new phase to the world
19:55:54 <subhashish> jdd, +1
19:55:57 <yaloki> yes, green is great
19:56:05 <anditosan> I think we can make green work so well if we put our expertise to it
19:56:11 <anditosan> awesome, thank you all
19:56:20 <CarlosRibeiro_> like SUSE is here, more closed with openSUSE than ever Novell though about
19:56:21 <yaloki> IMHO green is a *must*
19:56:21 <anditosan> let me now move you to our QA section
19:56:26 <Ilmehtar> so many different shades, works so well with many different things..yes its got its flaws but I've really been surprised how flexible green can be
19:56:27 <subhashish> so green is great but we need a definite way to iterate it
19:56:35 <anditosan> true
19:56:46 <anditosan> do we all agree to do QA?
19:56:51 <yaloki> yup
19:56:52 <jdd> yes
19:56:54 <anditosan> #topic QA
19:57:03 <Ilmehtar> First question - is a mail in from henne
19:57:11 <Ilmehtar> 02:55, 24 November 2011 (MST):	Can you consider merging your IRC channel into #opensuse-project so we have less channels and everybody gets to see what you are doing?
19:57:13 <anditosan> Ilmehtar will lead this part of the discussion as I need to check in back to work. I know, lame. :D
19:57:25 <CarlosRibeiro_> if we start a good plan, strategy for artwork, we will find the correct color for correct ocasion.
19:57:29 <Ilmehtar> What do we all think? I actually like the idea..
19:57:36 <CarlosRibeiro_> \me late =(
19:58:11 <jdd> why merge channels that are anyway temporary?
19:58:59 <yaloki> jdd: what's temporary?
19:59:09 <Ilmehtar> temporary? this channel is permanent, requires ops, draws users, and (IMHO) seperates us 'artworkers' from lots of good feedback we could get if we conducted our business in -project
19:59:12 <jdd> we use it only for meeting?
19:59:13 <yaloki> #opensuse-artwork has been around since some time, with 2 or 3 ppl on it at most
19:59:19 <yaloki> jdd: no
19:59:25 <yaloki> see, it's not used much :)
19:59:32 <AlanClark> +1 for merging with the project channel
19:59:35 <subhashish> Ilmehtar, therein lies the reason for not merging
19:59:54 <yaloki> subhashish: please explain, why not merge
19:59:58 <Ilmehtar> subhashish: you think we should be seperate from a source of good, active, feedback from our fellow contributors?
20:00:05 <jdd> empty channel do not hurt
20:00:11 <yaloki> jdd: they do
20:00:14 <suseROCKs> I endorse a merge as well,  however  I wonder if that's now not a good idea since apparently the booster team has recently un-merged itself from Project yet again
20:00:26 <CarlosRibeiro_> pros and cons. to merge will reduce the gap between us and the project, the cons I don't know yet :D
20:00:26 <subhashish> there could be spokespersons here
20:00:49 <manugupt1> Hmm did it?
20:01:06 <anditosan> do you all think that this could make us confised about artwork?
20:01:08 <yaloki> suseROCKs: but they were mostly using it to sync where to go to lunch :)
20:01:12 <suseROCKs> there must be some underlying reason why the decision to move away from project happened as quickly as it did
20:01:16 <manugupt1> subhashish: : There is no hiearchy in openSUSE you just do what you want to do :)
20:01:25 <suseROCKs> yaloki,   no  they were doing more than that
20:01:26 <bmwiedemann> I am sceptical of merging, as there could be a lot of unrelated discussions, so we would miss out the interesting art-related part
20:01:52 <suseROCKs> bmwiedemann,   then make the artwork channel more interesting  :-)
20:01:53 <Ilmehtar> here's my take - we make artwork, we're awesome, but our artwork has a huge impact across the project. taking our (quiet IRC channel) and merging it with -project is an opportunty to get more people involved in artwork discussions and more visibility to the awesome work we're doing
20:02:07 <yaloki> hm
20:02:15 <yaloki> what about merging marketing and artwork then?
20:02:22 <yaloki> marketing is a bit more active than artwork
20:02:24 <Ilmehtar> bmwiedemann: you make a fine point, but I think the -artwork ML should be kept and serious, non-instant discussions should be kept there..
20:02:31 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: okay, I like that better
20:02:32 <subhashish> right now i'm out of reasons to prpose for a different channel
20:02:54 <jdd> don't think so many people will look at it. We can advertise metting on the project list. cookbook messages do not interest project
20:03:05 <CarlosRibeiro_> Ilmehtar I like your points, but I think could be not so perfect like appears to be
20:03:16 <suseROCKs> jdd,   but IRC is used for more than just meetings
20:03:29 <suseROCKs> its a place where people have "hallway discussions" which are usually the most fruitful
20:03:30 <yaloki> IRC is a lot more about social interaction, actually
20:03:30 <Ilmehtar> CarlosRibeiro_: I think yaloki 's marketing idea is a happy medium between henne's suggestion and keeping things how they are
20:03:31 <jdd> yes, but this part is what I call cookbook
20:03:43 <jdd> not of general interest
20:03:49 <yaloki> both are fine
20:03:54 <yaloki> that's what we do on all the other channels
20:04:07 <yaloki> it's a mix of both focused discussions on a specific topic, and more social interaction
20:04:09 <jdd> yes, it's why I do not read them :-))
20:04:13 <CarlosRibeiro_> Ilmehtar: hummm, right
20:04:27 <subhashish> Ilmehtar,  agreed
20:04:31 <yaloki> jdd: please apply the same reasoning when you post to the mailing-lists then, thank you ;)
20:04:35 <jdd> IRC can work only with little writers
20:04:48 <yaloki> look
20:04:49 <yaloki> the thing is
20:04:51 <yaloki> let's be honest
20:05:06 <yaloki> the artwork and marketing teams don't have the visibility they deserve, right now, in the project
20:05:14 <Ilmehtar> agreed
20:05:15 <CarlosRibeiro_> right
20:05:15 <jdd> on the mailing list one can remove unusefull mails on one second, on IRC it mixes with others messages
20:05:21 <yaloki> being isolated with 4, 5 people on a channel of your own is not going to hepl
20:05:25 <yaloki> err, "help" even
20:05:26 <yaloki> hi marcus :)
20:05:32 <marcus> hi all
20:05:39 <subhashish> hello marcus
20:05:40 <yaloki> jdd: unuseful mails kill this project
20:05:45 <CarlosRibeiro_> marcus: ;)
20:06:02 <yaloki> so I think that's a lot behind the reasoning of merging channels too
20:06:10 <marcus> ok, have you already started (sorry, am a bit late, had to do some sports ;))
20:06:11 <yaloki> less channels mean more visibility, interaction, networking
20:06:19 <jdd> yaloki: it's not my vision, but it's not the place to discuss this
20:06:27 <marcus> the plan is to merge marketing and artwork?
20:06:36 <CarlosRibeiro_> marcus: yep
20:06:41 <marcus> hmm
20:06:53 <marcus> the main problem i see here that artists need to talk to artists
20:06:55 <Ilmehtar> marcus: not 'plan', more 'discussion'
20:06:55 <yaloki> would at least make more sense in terms of topic
20:06:58 <CarlosRibeiro_> I mean, project and artwork
20:07:03 <marcus> and not mainly to marketing ppl
20:07:04 <Ilmehtar> marcus: I disagree
20:07:17 <marcus> as you are a marketing guy, yep
20:07:19 <yaloki> marcus: yes, but being 3 or 4 people on an island and not interact with other people in the project can't be the best option either
20:07:27 <bmwiedemann> marketing needs artwork and artists need to know about the needs of marketing
20:07:34 <marcus> yes, it might be special in this little group of ppl
20:07:42 <Ilmehtar> marcus: that's a little harsh I think, I think its fair to say I've done my fair share of artwork as well
20:07:59 <marcus> but only saying things like it has to be more green are not useful for artists, anyhow
20:08:04 <manugupt1> marcus: My only question is how will we mentor new people if we are restricted in little groups
20:08:08 <CarlosRibeiro_> guys, this is almost the same situation we had in the past with ambassadors
20:08:17 <marcus> Ilmehtar, ok you got two souls ;)
20:08:36 <yaloki> marcus: that sounds pretty elitist, to put it gently
20:08:47 <marcus> not really
20:08:51 <yaloki> marcus: if it's not to work as part of a project, an island is fine too ;)
20:08:58 <marcus> marketing could help us to find more artists, of course
20:09:00 <yaloki> as said, it's also about interaction, visibility
20:09:10 <jdd> anyway is that so important? Merge it if you want :-)
20:09:11 <Ilmehtar> marcus: you dont think the artwork team need more sources of feedback?
20:09:13 <manugupt1> marcus: how?
20:09:14 <yaloki> so people know what others are working on, and such
20:09:16 <CarlosRibeiro_> yaloki: +1
20:09:18 <marcus> there are plenty of marketing ppl on the artwork list atm
20:09:27 <Ilmehtar> marcus: you think we're currently doing fine and dont need more contributors or people to help with ideas, suggestions, and maybe even their own art?
20:09:37 <yaloki> well yes, that's called "duplication", I believe  :)
20:09:46 <marcus> i think we need more artists
20:09:49 <marcus> not talkers
20:09:52 <CarlosRibeiro_> we probably have lots of artist around us, and we are not seein them because we are like in a island
20:09:53 <marcus> at least in this group
20:10:09 <jdd> is that an irc channel problem?
20:10:10 <marcus> CarlosRibeiro_, then let the marketing team help us to find them
20:10:14 <marcus> jdd, nope
20:10:16 <Ilmehtar> how are we going to get more artists if our artwork group act like an elite group who shun others feedback and help?
20:10:27 <marcus> again we are not elite
20:10:33 <Ilmehtar> marcus: then stop acting like it
20:10:34 <marcus> we need more visibility, not comments
20:10:39 <yaloki> um
20:10:46 <manugupt1> marcus: How do we get visibility?
20:10:48 <yaloki> marcus: pick your island then
20:10:51 <marcus> Ilmehtar, i am not acting like this, you are just getting me wrong
20:10:55 <CarlosRibeiro_> I think we need both
20:11:07 <jdd> to get visibility we have to show artwork
20:11:18 <marcus> and therefor we need artists
20:11:23 <marcus> thats the main point atm
20:11:25 <Ilmehtar> no, therefore we need people to see artwork..
20:11:27 <manugupt1> marcus: its a recursion :)
20:11:39 <marcus> and to get artists we need attraction (e.g. prices)
20:11:49 <jdd> we have some (no me :-), and have to show they work (there I can)
20:11:50 <manugupt1> marcus: prizes as in?
20:11:51 <marcus> winning concept gets an bamboo tablet (e.g.)
20:11:56 <CarlosRibeiro_> we need to create something that cause impact is what we need, imho
20:12:01 <yaloki> but afaics marcus is the only one who disagrees so far, at least to the proposal to make #opensuse-artwork a forward to #opensuse-marketing
20:12:03 <manugupt1> marcus: Also we are all about contributing
20:12:20 <jdd> ? henne said project?
20:12:31 <yaloki> jdd: yes, but we could merge it with marketing too
20:12:33 <marcus> yaloki, i do not totally disagree, it just does not solve our main problems
20:12:36 <yaloki> might make more sense
20:12:42 <jdd> why  not?
20:12:53 <yaloki> marcus: that's true, but there are many "problems" / things to improve :)
20:13:12 <marcus> it does not improve things to have more ppl commenting on few contributions
20:13:40 <marcus> i am not sure if marketing and ambassadors are already merged, but that makes sense imho
20:13:42 <yaloki> but it enhances visibility in the project, and interest, and feedback, and possibly more contributors
20:13:43 <jdd> we can comment, but also publish on mailing lists, facebook, google+, wiki, flyers
20:14:02 <marcus> yaloki, maybe
20:14:14 <manugupt1> What marcus is trying to say here is a lot of people commenting puts a lot of stress on the few people working on these artworks, do I get you right?
20:14:15 <CarlosRibeiro_> marcus: humm . dependes of the quality of contributions, don't you think?
20:14:16 <jdd> may be we could give more visible credit to the artists that did the good job
20:14:27 <marcus> i would agree that we could give it a try, but i personally do not expect that big outcome
20:14:35 <marcus> manugupt1, you got it
20:15:05 <bmwiedemann> like with my drafts for 12.1 artwork where some people said, it should be brighter, while others wanted it darker :D
20:15:08 <marcus> i personally did not even get a thanks, for the heavy work i did in the last few month
20:15:16 <marcus> bmwiedemann, jup
20:15:18 <suseROCKs> guys I have to go.  Looking forward to seeing how you guys end up
20:15:19 <marcus> thats what i mean
20:15:19 <yaloki> marcus: see, my point, visibility ;)
20:15:23 <CarlosRibeiro_> numbers of ppl and contributions is important, of course, but if withou quality I think you are right, we will get lots of comments and few positive help feedback
20:15:24 <Ilmehtar> marcus: really? that's surprising, I got tons of thanks..
20:15:54 <manugupt1> marcus: I think everyone spoke of those wallpapers as yours in mailing lists that is credibility :)
20:15:56 <yaloki> how about we give it a try
20:16:08 <yaloki> we can always go back to segregation
20:16:13 <marcus> as mentioned, i think we could give it a try
20:16:14 <manugupt1> marcus: I think we should give it a try
20:16:20 <bmwiedemann> fine
20:16:21 <jdd> go
20:16:24 <subhashish> ok
20:16:44 <marcus> can i bring up the next topic?
20:16:46 <Ilmehtar> #info follow-up merging -artwork with either -project or -marketing IRC channel
20:16:52 <manugupt1> yes
20:16:54 <Ilmehtar> we're at the QA section, so shoot
20:16:58 <yaloki> #info let's try to merge #opensuse-artwork with #opensuse-marketing, and see in a few weeks how it turns out, can always go back if it doesn't
20:17:03 <jdd> and I have to go. See you on the mailing list (artwork) for licence discussion
20:17:23 <marcus> ok, i want to limit the work, we have to do in the artwork sig (as we are so few ppl atm)
20:17:36 <Ilmehtar> sig?
20:17:44 <manugupt1> marcus: sig??
20:17:46 <yaloki> fedora slang for team :)
20:17:59 <marcus> so the idea is to create a basic artwork for grub / boot / maybe login manager
20:18:06 <marcus> and only customize the wallpaper
20:18:20 <marcus> special intrest group
20:18:24 <yaloki> marcus: you mean release agnostic
20:18:57 <manugupt1> Ilmehtar: Did you share your students work at ml.. I think it will be great if you do so :)
20:19:04 <marcus> if i would know what agnostic means maybe yaloki
20:19:21 <marcus> it should be release safe
20:19:23 <bmwiedemann> marcus: means same for every release
20:19:25 <Ilmehtar> marcus: making artwork that isn't changed when new releases are released..
20:19:27 <yaloki> marcus: ah I meant independent of the release
20:19:29 <Ilmehtar> marcus: we discussed the idea of release agnostic stuff earlier on..
20:19:33 <marcus> jup
20:19:42 <marcus> i thing this would improve a lot of things
20:19:45 <marcus> at least for now
20:19:51 <marcus> till we are more contributors
20:19:52 <bmwiedemann> but as I understood, reviewers really liked the consistent theme
20:20:02 <yaloki> yep
20:20:04 <Ilmehtar> marcus: the general feeling seemed to be along the idea of using more release agnostic artwork but still keeping somethings release specific - I'm not sure I share your feeling we dont have enough to do the current workload though
20:20:17 <yaloki> marcus: makes sense as a fallback plan, imho
20:20:17 <marcus> ok, so it should be green ;)
20:20:28 <marcus> ok
20:20:40 <bmwiedemann> and I thought, coolo did some scripting to make many artwork/branding parts from one source
20:20:49 <Ilmehtar> would argue that picking a good 'easy to work with' art for the core wallpaper would also help make the load less
20:21:01 <marcus> bmwiedemann, it still was a LOT of work
20:21:06 <yaloki> it's definitely a valid way to approach it, but maybe we should first see who can take care of what before we jump to the assumption we're not enough people
20:21:14 <Ilmehtar> bmwiedemann: correct - making too much rrelease agnostic would actually make more work for packagers like me
20:21:18 <marcus> Ilmehtar, that was not the point at least not for this release
20:21:33 <yaloki> I mean, a lack of organization (which needs some time to get into place) causes a lot more work for everyone too
20:21:37 <Ilmehtar> bmwiedemann: because we'd have to uncarve all the scripting for the branding packages ;-)
20:22:06 <marcus> no, it oculd still be in the branding package Ilmehtar
20:22:17 <marcus> it's more about a workflow
20:22:57 <manugupt1> Hmm..
20:23:12 <manugupt1> So if I get it right we have 2 things here
20:23:17 <manugupt1> 1. Less no of contributors
20:23:17 <Ilmehtar> some of us artists might not want to follow the same workflow as you..less work is great, but I for one am willing to help out more.. I found it difficult to get involved in some aspects of the 12.1 artwork for reasons totally non-technical..
20:23:41 <manugupt1> 2. Identify issues to minimize the effort
20:24:07 <yaloki> I believe that a lot of improvements can be made in terms of organization
20:24:10 <CarlosRibeiro_> brb
20:24:11 <manugupt1> Ilmehtar: Still no harm in minimizing effort
20:24:12 <yaloki> that already lowers part of the work
20:24:18 <marcus> Ilmehtar, i asked you for some contributions like the libre office splash
20:24:18 <Ilmehtar> manugupt1: agreed :)
20:24:25 <marcus> which i still had to do on my own
20:24:29 <yaloki> and that's not just for the artwork team, but everyone and their interaction with the artwork team
20:25:16 <marcus> atm, i think it will be again a lot of strees to do a streamline design for 12.2
20:25:30 <marcus> unless we get more contributors and clearly define who does what
20:25:30 <yaloki> marcus: well precisely, having a somewhat more structured approach will definitely help on that too
20:25:32 <manugupt1> anditosan: there?
20:25:42 <Ilmehtar> marcus: yes you did, but given I couldnt' find any of the current sources, it did make things rather difficult - this goes back to my earlier points that we should be doing stuff more openly and easily for people to contribute
20:25:53 <Ilmehtar> marcus: I shouldn't be needing to email you to get the correct versions of the openSUSE logo for example
20:26:11 <marcus> me did not had any sources, too. just designed one on my own
20:26:19 <Ilmehtar> marcus: also, as an aside, I still find it ironic that the libre office splash was our only bit of version neutral art in 11.4 and you decided that needed changing :)
20:26:26 <marcus> Ilmehtar, i agree on that, but thats robers false
20:26:31 <anditosan> manugupt1, yes but on the phone :D
20:26:32 <marcus> aeh robert
20:26:35 <manugupt1> Ok.. Lets start figuring out solutions but not point out :)
20:26:40 <marcus> ok
20:26:56 <marcus> just wanted to mention as Ilmehtar asked for more work :/
20:26:56 <manugupt1> Does that sound good to everyone Ilmehtar yaloki marcus
20:26:58 <yaloki> yes, we need to get robert more involved on a few points too
20:27:23 <yaloki> and make sure material, guidelines (including licensing) and such are easily available for all
20:27:27 <anditosan> yes
20:27:28 <anditosan> :D
20:27:31 <marcus> it's not only about being involved but speaking about it.
20:27:32 <yaloki> that's certainly not the case right now
20:27:46 <bmwiedemann> would be nice, if we could have all artwork images in one place (e.g. git checkout) and get it into the right packages/places easily
20:28:01 <marcus> the git repo is already well structured
20:28:01 <yaloki> bmwiedemann: yep
20:28:03 <marcus> at least for 12.1
20:28:10 <yaloki> mh
20:28:13 <marcus> only the counter banners are not in there
20:28:18 <yaloki> I think it should be thrown away
20:28:21 <yaloki> it's way too large
20:28:37 <marcus> it contains a lot of useful stuff
20:28:38 <yaloki> contains artifacts (e.g. 80% of the size of the repo is PDFs that are just rendered from SVGs)
20:28:47 <manugupt1> The git repo??
20:28:51 <marcus> the release subdir only contains release specific stuff
20:28:51 <yaloki> yes
20:29:07 <marcus> there is nothing to throw away in there.
20:29:09 <manugupt1> well something like spideroak would be seriously more helpgul
20:29:15 <anditosan> yaloki, would it be ok if we also took this discussion to robert and then make the change?
20:29:44 <yaloki> manugupt1: mm.. only for read access
20:29:49 <yaloki> but that's really a topic of its own
20:29:53 <yaloki> and it's not an easy one
20:30:13 <marcus> i am fine with the repo as it is atm
20:30:27 <yaloki> 2GB of checkout
20:30:29 <marcus> i even like gitorious
20:30:30 <yaloki> nuff said
20:30:34 <marcus> hrhr
20:30:47 <marcus> i would just do some cleanup around
20:30:49 <Ilmehtar> lol
20:30:53 <marcus> and keep the 12.1 as a template
20:31:00 <CarlosRibeiro_> \me back
20:31:21 <yaloki> marcus: think we need some guidelines too, or, well, that's too much of a word, rather some best practices
20:31:25 <marcus> this is something i can work out together with robert
20:31:42 <manugupt1> Please make #info
20:31:42 <anditosan> friends, I know there are some of us who need to check out. Is it ok to end the meeting now and have the rest of this conversation be off the meeting?
20:31:43 <yaloki> robert definitely should get involved, he said he has some pretty functional layout that could be used
20:31:54 <yaloki> marcus: and it's something that should be worked out on the mailing-list ;)
20:32:05 <marcus> jup
20:32:07 <yaloki> anditosan: yep, sure, thanks for organizing it :)
20:32:12 <anditosan> you bet :D
20:32:13 <marcus> if you can get him there
20:32:17 <manugupt1> anditosan: thanks for organising it :)
20:32:25 <Ilmehtar> anditosan: excellent meeting, we need more! good job
20:32:52 <anditosan> Thank you all, it's great having a bday with a bunch of friends talking on an interesting subject :D
20:32:54 <subhashish> anditosan, nice organization for meeting; thanks!
20:33:21 <manugupt1> good night all
20:33:22 <bmwiedemann> anditosan: you did lead this meeting well.
20:33:29 <manugupt1> happy bday anditosan again :)
20:33:37 <marcus> from me too ;)
20:33:48 <anditosan> Thanks
20:34:02 <Ilmehtar> #endmeeting