17:03:06 <bmwiedemann> #startmeeting 17:03:06 <bugbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 12 17:03:06 2011 UTC. The chair is bmwiedemann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:03:06 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:03:35 <bmwiedemann> Hello everyone 17:03:35 <bmwiedemann> As always, today's agenda is on http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Testing_meeting 17:03:35 <bmwiedemann> You can still add to the agenda on the wiki while the meeting is in progress 17:04:29 <bmwiedemann> #topic MS5 experience 17:04:55 <bmwiedemann> I installed it on both my laptops and except for the KDE-NM bug, it worked well. 17:05:04 <Holgi> I ask "our" trainee to do some M5 testing 17:05:15 <Holgi> he found some issues using gnome 17:05:33 <bmwiedemann> openQA is showing some new post-MS5 failures 17:05:44 <Holgi> and found out installation using a nfs repository does not work 17:07:42 <LWFinger> bmwidermann: I have seen that empty resolv.conf, but only when using systemd. 17:08:10 <bmwiedemann> I think, LiveCDs have systemd already default enabled 17:08:59 <LWFinger> I have run MS5 of 3 different real machines and one VM for about 10 days. Problems with systemd and the KDE NM applet. 17:10:06 <LWFinger> With systemd, no mount of /home on one machine. Others are OK there, but empty resolv.conf. 17:10:14 <jradzuweit> Hi 17:10:25 <LWFinger> Hi. 17:10:49 <bmwiedemann> I heard that coolo+fcrozat plan to make systemd the default. or maybe they even did for current Factory. 17:11:45 <LWFinger> I still need to check bugzilla and update existing reports or file new ones as appropriate. 17:12:08 <LWFinger> At least, GRUB lets you change it if necessary. 17:12:12 <bmwiedemann> LWFinger: was the /home mount something special? crypto or so? 17:12:41 <LWFinger> No. Plain simple ext4 partition. 17:13:32 <LWFinger> I need to check /etc/fstab on this one against the ones that work to see if any diffs. 17:14:44 <jradzuweit> still are 11 bug new for systemd 17:15:05 <jradzuweit> s/bug/bugs/ 17:17:26 <LWFinger> I'm in the process of doing an update on the system with the most systemd problems. That involved 1751 packages. Perhaps it will be better. 17:18:45 <bmwiedemann> will be good to stress systemd as much as we can before our one and only Beta (in 10 days) 17:18:58 <LWFinger> Yes. 17:21:37 <jradzuweit> I will put focus on systemd as well, 17:22:40 <jradzuweit> me is getting a beer 17:22:59 <LWFinger> Have one for me. 17:24:20 <bmwiedemann> let's move to the next topic 17:24:32 <bmwiedemann> #topic oSC 2011 17:25:09 <bmwiedemann> aparrently it started yesterday 17:25:22 <bmwiedemann> and I found many nice topics and interesting people to talk to there. 17:25:24 <Holgi> ;-) 17:26:01 <bmwiedemann> tomorrow there will be testing BoF by me at 09:30 and another testing BoF by Jiri Slaby afterwards at 10:30 17:26:33 <bmwiedemann> and Wednesday afternoon will have my talk on "one year of openqa.o.o" 17:27:32 * Holgi will join 17:27:52 <LWFinger> Are the contents of talks like yours normally posted on the Internet? 17:28:04 <jradzuweit> and afterwards some testing experience by SEIDEL, Conny (AMD Advanced Micro Devices) 17:28:19 <bmwiedemann> not sure. I can publish my slides anyway 17:28:30 <LWFinger> Please do. 17:29:39 <jradzuweit> yesterday there was atalk about automated kernel testing 17:30:16 <bmwiedemann> http://openqa.opensuse.org/opensuse/doc/openqa-osc2011.odp 17:30:16 <jradzuweit> by MARSIK, Vilem 17:30:48 <LWFinger> I have seen discussion about kernel testing on the Linux Kernel Mailing List. 17:32:27 <LWFinger> bmwiedermann: Thanks for the link. Downloaded already. 17:33:09 <jradzuweit> maybe we could put them on the wiki? 17:34:31 <bmwiedemann> to be useful standalone (without talk), the slides could use some additions. 17:35:26 <bmwiedemann> however, I think, that automated testing (kernel and otherwise) will improve soon 17:36:19 <LWFinger> It is a necessary step - systems are too complex for only manual testing. 17:37:10 <bmwiedemann> it's the only way to ensure that systems become better instead of replacing old bugs with new ones. 17:37:37 <LWFinger> Or keep the old ones as well. :) 17:38:56 <bmwiedemann> yep 17:40:16 <bmwiedemann> let's move to next topic 17:40:24 <bmwiedemann> #topic OpenBugsDay #3 17:40:39 <bmwiedemann> participation was rather low this time 17:40:49 <jradzuweit> yes 17:40:55 <bmwiedemann> maybe because the task was not so interesting or useful? 17:41:32 <jradzuweit> in germany it was one of the sunny days 17:41:44 <jradzuweit> so a lot of poeple are went swimming 17:41:45 <LWFinger> I really have no idea why, but very disappointing. 17:42:01 <jradzuweit> I think we need some more marketing 17:42:09 <LWFinger> I guess sunny days are too few to waste. 17:42:24 <bmwiedemann> there was already a news.o.o article about our next great event... the Beta Pizza Party 17:42:55 <jradzuweit> I think we need more often some reports on testing 17:43:04 <LWFinger> I missed that. I wonder how good virtual pizza is. 17:44:24 <bmwiedemann> you could have your own pizza, but I admit that it might not be the same 17:44:26 <LWFinger> I write a contribution every week to the Weekly News. What more? 17:44:54 <jradzuweit> some more on the mailing list 17:45:05 <jradzuweit> it is rarely used 17:45:06 <Holgi> LWFinger: I really like this :-) 17:46:16 <LWFinger> My stuff is always sent to the ML, as well. Holgi: Thanks. 17:46:59 <bmwiedemann> I could write more updates on openQA results to the ML 17:47:46 <LWFinger> That would be usefil. I don't always check openqa.o.o as often as I should. 17:48:08 <jradzuweit> the time between posts are quite large, sometimes are weeks between posts 17:48:21 <jradzuweit> I think people loose interest 17:54:10 <bmwiedemann> we should communicate more of our testing work over the testing ML 17:54:27 <bmwiedemann> e.g. the systemd focus 17:54:43 <LWFinger> Please send me any thoughts on additional publicity on OBD #4 and on getting testers for the Beta. 17:56:40 <bmwiedemann> OK 17:56:54 <LWFinger> I fear the systemd will be a big problem with 12.1 GM unless there is a real push on testing. 17:57:44 <LWFinger> With Fedora using it, I'm a little surprised that it not better, but ... 17:57:55 <bmwiedemann> btw: the Pizza Party is still pretty on top of http://news.opensuse.org/ 17:58:08 <jradzuweit> UBuntu is not better either, but it looks smarter 17:58:41 <bmwiedemann> there is also still trouble with nouveau and KMS 17:59:44 <bmwiedemann> #topic open discussion 17:59:52 <LWFinger> Those are old, continuing problems. None of my nVidia adapters work with nouveau, but the workarounds are well-known. 18:00:21 <bmwiedemann> having nvidia fail out-of-the-box is still bad 18:00:26 <bmwiedemann> for GM 18:01:49 <LWFinger> I'm running kernel 3.1 already - there will not be much help there. 18:02:21 <bmwiedemann> any way that we could make "nomodeset" the default for nvidia adapters? 18:03:16 <LWFinger> I don't think that would be too much trouble when GRUB is installed. Good idea. 18:05:09 <LWFinger> I only use the framebuffer driver with 2D acceleration, and the people that want 3D alreay use the proprietary driver. Forcing nomodeset would not cause a problem. 18:05:48 <LWFinger> Where should the suggestion be placed? 18:05:55 <bmwiedemann> opensuse-factory? 18:06:12 <LWFinger> OK, I'll start the ball rollinng. 18:06:35 <bmwiedemann> great. 18:07:22 <bmwiedemann> jradzuweit proposed to have openQA regularly provide preinstalled VM images for download. would be easy to add on my side 18:08:06 <bmwiedemann> this way, people could just pull it and have their kvm or virtualbox start it for testing. 18:08:18 <LWFinger> Those were handy on OBD. I like the idea. 18:09:51 <bmwiedemann> OK. will probably enough to update daily or weekly as zypper up is easy. 18:10:34 <jradzuweit> I think weekly is sufficent 18:11:53 <LWFinger> Weekly should be enough. 18:18:29 <bmwiedemann> jradzuweit wants to write an example report for testing ML 18:19:36 <LWFinger> Good. 18:20:54 <jradzuweit> ok I will post it to the ML 18:21:36 <bmwiedemann> Then let's close today's meeting. 18:21:53 <jradzuweit> and getting more beer :) 18:21:55 <bmwiedemann> Thanks everyone for attending. I will add links to the logs on http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Testing_meeting 18:22:01 <Holgi> enjoy! 18:22:05 <bmwiedemann> #endmeeting