18:00:16 <HolgiDE> #startmeeting openSUSE Testing Core Team 18:00:16 <bugbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 6 18:00:16 2010 UTC. The chair is HolgiDE. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:16 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:27 <HolgiDE> #chair bmwiedemann 18:00:27 <bugbot> Current chairs: HolgiDE bmwiedemann 18:02:34 <bmwiedemann> #topic Experience with 11.4-MS4 and/or factory-tested 18:03:38 <ReferenceSeete> Seems to be shaping up nicely. Nouveau has made a solid improvement since 11.3 18:04:15 <bmwiedemann> ReferenceSeete: in terms of performance or stability? 18:04:50 <ReferenceSeete> Both. I haven't had a crash or screen corruption so far. Additionally the system moves at a usable pace. 18:04:54 <LWFinger> I still have an i915 problem with drm in 2.6.37, but that is upstream. 18:06:02 <bmwiedemann> I had installed Factory-tested on my old Via-based laptop and fbdev graphics are sometimes awfully slow. 18:06:18 <LWFinger> I agree, 11.4M4 looks pretty good. Cannot burn CDs due to k3b problem. 18:06:58 <HolgiDE> LWFinger: I succeeded doing that als root :-> 18:07:28 <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: Kodos for factory-testing. It is good to do a rolling update without woryy that system will boot. 18:07:36 * HolgiDE I'm using M4 on my workstation without major problems 18:08:00 <bmwiedemann> LWFinger: the burning is like https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656502 18:08:03 <bugbot> openSUSE bug 656502 in openSUSE 11.3 (KDE4 Applications) "K3b input/output error burning bluray BD-R" [Critical,New] 18:08:54 <bmwiedemann> and yes, factory-testing is a nice thing to have :) they broke factory twice during the first 36h after I published factory-testing :D 18:09:09 <bmwiedemann> err. "factory-tested" 18:10:17 <bmwiedemann> I also had problems with sntp on factory after MS4 18:10:35 <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: I need to read that bug report carefully. I'm not sure it is the same as mine fails on startup. 18:11:36 <LWFinger> HolgiDE: I really hate to log into a GUI as root. I also have 11.3 on that box and can burn from it. 18:11:57 <HolgiDE> LWFinger: that absolute correct to not use it as root 18:11:58 <bmwiedemann> which bugs should we put on the most-annoying list? the k3b one and the zypper one? 18:12:24 <bmwiedemann> kdesu k3b could work 18:14:07 <HolgiDE> bug #656060 from M3 is still open 18:14:31 <HolgiDE> bug 656060 from M3 is still open 18:14:33 <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: I get an error box saying a configuration file now writable, but that should be fixable. 18:15:01 <LWFinger> Edit /now/not/ 18:18:02 <HolgiDE> otherwise no additional big issues from my point of view 18:18:44 <bmwiedemann> next topic would be "GNOME 3.0 Redux" - whose is that? 18:18:49 <LWFinger> None for me either. I had a small one with Build 0908 that was fixed on 0909. 18:19:08 <ReferenceSeete> That topic is mine. 18:19:31 <ReferenceSeete> I spoke with Vincent Untz "vuntz" about GNOME 3 18:19:31 <HolgiDE> bmwiedemann: maybe you want to add bug# ti minutes with #info 18:19:41 <HolgiDE> s/ti/to/ 18:20:11 <ReferenceSeete> I was just looking for claification. First about openQA's capability and second about what sort of commitment is possible from the team itself 18:20:19 <bmwiedemann> LWFinger: do you have filed your k3b issue on bugzilla? 18:20:34 <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: not yet 18:23:09 <bmwiedemann> #info discussed bug 657605, bug 656060 and an unfiled k3b bug as most prominent issues with M4 18:24:29 <bmwiedemann> #topic GNOME 3.0 Redux 18:24:56 <bmwiedemann> so the idea with GNOME 3.0 is to have automated testing for it on the openQA system? 18:25:19 <ReferenceSeete> Well that's one idea. But i'd like to know if it's even possible. 18:25:34 <ReferenceSeete> G3 uses openGL and I'm not sure how far along that is in KVM. 18:25:46 <bmwiedemann> Mesa can do openGL 18:25:52 <bmwiedemann> in pure software 18:26:09 <ReferenceSeete> So I'm asking before this goes to far and expectations develop. 18:26:20 <ReferenceSeete> Software raster, yes? 18:26:48 <bmwiedemann> yes. I suppose I should give it a try when I have some spare hour. 18:27:37 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: what info could you collect from vuntz 18:27:41 <ReferenceSeete> Ok, I told Vincent I would ask about this because I was unsure and some online reports on OpenGL + Virt weren't too encouraging. 18:27:46 <bmwiedemann> I recently learned that you can use the "Add On Product" checkbox on the second installer screen to use extra repos 18:28:28 <ReferenceSeete> Vuntz was A) excited that we were talking about testing it B) unsure if automated testing would work due to openGL being needed. 18:28:41 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: I see 18:29:21 <ReferenceSeete> Additionally he mentioned that they are still looking at bringing a G3 liveCD online, but it isn't high priority at this moment. 18:29:55 <ReferenceSeete> Since the GNOME Team's respin is due after 11.4 is out, we can help them test much closer to GM. 18:29:58 <bmwiedemann> I am not sure how much openGL they use, because Mesa is often lacking behind the standard 18:31:20 <ReferenceSeete> Right now it's not critical and it may not be feasible, but I just wanted to have accurate information. 18:31:42 <ReferenceSeete> My other question was if people are available to looking at the G3 respin when the time comes. 18:31:53 <bmwiedemann> #action bmwiedemann will evaluate feasability of automated GNOME 3 testing on openQA 18:32:27 <ReferenceSeete> Seeing as this would take us in the "break period" I didn't want to over commit the Team. 18:32:54 <ReferenceSeete> Still, it would be good to be able to tell the GNOME Team "look we've got a sub-team of 4 who can help you on this" or whatever the number is. 18:33:23 <HolgiDE> as long as openqa does the work ... 18:33:45 <ReferenceSeete> Hehehe, well yest openqa would be a massive help. But that's up in the air right now. 18:34:24 <HolgiDE> :-) 18:34:33 <ReferenceSeete> Think about it, and we can look into solid commitments at the next meeting. 18:34:46 <ReferenceSeete> That way people can get a good look at schedules and whatnot. 18:35:03 <bmwiedemann> ReferenceSeete: I only have two laptops here, one with fbdev which will be too slow and one with intel that I would prefer to not break, so I will mostly do VM-testing of GNOME3 18:35:30 <LWFinger> ReferenceSeete: If you notify the testing ML when you would like testing, I'll spread the word on the forum. 18:35:52 <ReferenceSeete> Sounds great. Any testing will help. 18:36:52 <ReferenceSeete> I'll let vuntz know where things stand for now and hopefully things will continue to take shape as we approach release. 18:36:55 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: but that will not start before we get the gnome3.0 live dvd? 18:37:25 <bmwiedemann> HolgiDE: there are repos for that, that could work, too... 18:37:30 <ReferenceSeete> Right. Of couse we could test the preview packages and report upstream. 18:37:45 <ReferenceSeete> But I know that right now the focus is on 11.4 18:37:47 <HolgiDE> ok 18:38:21 <ReferenceSeete> I was just curious about our capacity to help out a fellow team with their side-project. 18:39:34 <ReferenceSeete> It's sort of funny for me because I'm a KDE guy, but I like that as a project all the desktops get love. So I'm trying to help us make a good first impression, like with Smeegol. 18:39:58 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: wow 18:40:03 <bmwiedemann> #info ReferenceSeete will notify opensuse-testing ML when GNOME3 needs testing 18:40:39 <bmwiedemann> I like helping things look good :) 18:40:50 <LWFinger> ReferenceSeete: Include repo info as well. 18:41:04 <ReferenceSeete> LWFinger: Ok, I'll do that. 18:41:42 <bmwiedemann> and pointers on how to setup, how to use the cool new features etc 18:42:18 <bmwiedemann> #topic Transcripts of past meetings 18:42:25 <ReferenceSeete> Sure thing. 18:42:27 <bmwiedemann> last topic on prepared agenda 18:42:35 <ReferenceSeete> This topic is mine as well. 18:43:28 <ReferenceSeete> When I got around to put up the last meeting's minutes, bmwiedemann had already slept, ate, and posted them. So I put up the archive minutes I had on file. 18:43:50 <ReferenceSeete> The problem is a number of the meetings I attended were from Web-clients and I didn't save the output. 18:44:20 <ReferenceSeete> So it's just a call for anyone who happens to still have those transcripts to either post them or e-mail them to me so I can post them. 18:45:23 <ReferenceSeete> r.seete AT googles-email-service .com 18:45:31 <bmwiedemann> I thought, we posted most of them on the old wiki 18:46:01 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: which transcripts are missing? 18:46:45 <ReferenceSeete> Many of them. 18:46:46 <bmwiedemann> http://old-en.opensuse.org/Special:Search?search=testing+meeting&go.x=0&go.y=0 18:46:57 <ReferenceSeete> Although I do need to look at the old wiki. 18:47:48 <ReferenceSeete> From this link however bmwiedemann is right that quite a number are archived. 18:47:57 <ReferenceSeete> I'll make new pages for them. 18:48:31 <bmwiedemann> very good :) 18:49:10 <bmwiedemann> #action ReferenceSeete will make new pages from old-en testing meeting transcripts 18:49:13 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: http://old-en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Testing_Core_Team/Meetings 18:50:22 <ReferenceSeete> I guess that closes the prepared agenda. 18:50:53 <bmwiedemann> yes. you can come up with more topics now. 18:51:54 <ReferenceSeete> Actually I have a question. Not sure if this has been addressed before. 18:52:45 <LWFinger> I still need to de extensive wireless testing. No problems with quick test, but not ready for discussion. 18:52:49 <bmwiedemann> so ask it :) 18:53:27 <ReferenceSeete> It looks like I may have an interview for a position here but I'm a recent graduate and don't have many references (yes, yes, irony). 18:53:38 <ReferenceSeete> So I was curious if A) it's possible to get a reference from volunteering in the oS Project and, 18:53:53 <ReferenceSeete> B) who would give it if it was possible? 18:54:23 <LWFinger> For B), I think Holgi. 18:54:42 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: I'm not familiar with the reference stuff because we don't use that in Germany 18:55:16 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: what would that mean if someone is getting in touch with me? 18:55:19 <bmwiedemann> of course, quite a lot of your work will be visible publicly online. from meeting transcripts to git-commits. 18:55:24 <ReferenceSeete> A reference is basically a social stopgap for employers to avoid heavy research. 18:55:49 <ReferenceSeete> But yes, they would e-mail you and say "do you know this person? In what capacity have you worked together?" 18:56:05 <ReferenceSeete> "have they done A or B" 18:56:50 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: ok, I'm willing to do - but I would like to discuss this further by e-mail, e.a. learn what you want me to answer 18:57:15 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: if someone really get's in touch with me 18:57:20 <ReferenceSeete> Well I don't want you to answer anything special. 18:57:40 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: I also give you my contact details in e-mail if necessary 18:57:41 <ReferenceSeete> Just that I volunteer with you and such. But yes, we'll talk through e-mail. 18:58:04 <HolgiDE> ReferenceSeete: ok 18:58:31 <ReferenceSeete> Thank you. 18:58:38 <HolgiDE> welcome 18:58:42 <LWFinger> ReferenceSeete: Best of luck with the interview. 18:59:11 * bmwiedemann hopes that Luck will not be needed 18:59:28 <ReferenceSeete> Thanks. I still have to get a call back to schedule a time. Should be next week though. 18:59:51 <HolgiDE> bmwiedemann: next topic - next meeting? 18:59:53 <bmwiedemann> LWFinger: do you want to discuss the wireless testing some more? or do you need any help? 19:00:00 <ReferenceSeete> I hope luck isn't needed either, the testing round went quite well, but interviews are less objective.. 19:00:11 <ReferenceSeete> Yes, need any help wireless testing? 19:00:49 <LWFinger> bmwiedemann: Not ready yet. As to help, if anyone has a problem, let me know. 19:01:26 <bmwiedemann> OK. 19:01:38 <LWFinger> I have not had any problems yet. In addition, I have seen nothing from the forums. Looks good. 19:01:49 <bmwiedemann> #info report wireless issues to LWFinger 19:02:14 <LWFinger> Actually, I take any networking issues as well. 19:02:30 <bmwiedemann> #topic next Testing Core Team Meeting 19:02:43 <HolgiDE> Thu, Dec 16, openSUSE 11.4 Milestone 5 release 19:02:51 <HolgiDE> not sure if that's the final date 19:03:21 <HolgiDE> but my recommendation would be to have no meeting before x-mas 19:03:24 <bmwiedemann> last two milestones were 3-7 days late 19:04:05 <bmwiedemann> 2010-12-27 would be first Monday after x-mas 19:04:26 <HolgiDE> most people are probably on vacation 19:04:50 <HolgiDE> what about 2011-01-09 ? 19:04:53 <bmwiedemann> HolgiDE: vacation could mean that they have time for a chat ;) 19:05:11 <HolgiDE> bmwiedemann: not if you won't spent your vacation at home 19:05:26 <ReferenceSeete> Could do both... 19:05:54 <ReferenceSeete> Have an 'informal' meeting for those who can come in December and a 'full' meeting early/mid January. 19:06:00 <LWFinger> 2011-01-09 is a Sunday. 19:06:23 <HolgiDE> LWFinger: you are right - correct date 2011-01-10 19:06:48 <bmwiedemann> that is already quite close to Milestone 6 of 6 19:06:53 <HolgiDE> ok, who thinks that he would be attending on 2010-12-27? 19:06:57 * HolgiDE can not 19:07:00 <bmwiedemann> (2011-01-20) 19:07:21 <ReferenceSeete> I should be able to, family commitments should end the 26th. 19:07:22 <LWFinger> I could be here on 12-27. 19:07:23 * bmwiedemann could probably 19:07:49 <HolgiDE> ok, then go ahead 19:07:57 <bmwiedemann> we could also create a doodle 19:08:13 <HolgiDE> then let's schedule january meeting after M6 19:08:39 <bmwiedemann> 2010-11-24 or 31? 19:08:56 <bmwiedemann> err 2011-01-24 or 31? 19:08:57 <HolgiDE> I don't mind 19:09:33 <bmwiedemann> the latter is better to compensate for slipped releases and give some time to test 19:09:39 <HolgiDE> ok 19:10:19 <HolgiDE> so 2011-01-31 then? 19:10:31 <ReferenceSeete> Sounds fine. 19:10:36 <LWFinger> OK. 19:10:58 <HolgiDE> fine 19:11:09 <bmwiedemann> #agreed next meetings on 2010-12-27 18:00 (optional) and 2011-01-31 18:00 UTC 19:11:43 <HolgiDE> fine 19:13:04 <HolgiDE> #endmeeting