15:01:19 <suseROCKs> #startmeeting openSUSE 2013 Board Candidates Open Q&A Debate
15:01:20 <bugbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  6 15:01:19 2012 UTC.  The chair is suseROCKs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:20 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:33 <suseROCKs> #chair suseROCKs digitltom
15:01:33 <bugbot> Current chairs: digitltom suseROCKs
15:02:12 <suseROCKs> Moin everyone in IRC-Land.  Welcome to the 2013 Board Candidates Open Q&A Debate.  first a few things to mention and then we'll continue
15:03:04 <suseROCKs> digitltom (thomas Schmidt) and suseROCKs (Bryen Yunashko) are today's moderators.  Our role is simply to ensure effective flow of discussion and make sure that things are handled in a positive fashion.
15:03:28 <suseROCKs> We'd like to thank all the candidates for the effort to be here today.  it wasn't easy to plan at the last moment and with 8 candidates, scheduling is a challenge.
15:03:53 <suseROCKs> But, while some candidates will be late and some candidates will have to leave a bit early, at least all candidates will be here at some point during the  next two hours.
15:04:31 <suseROCKs> You can read all of the candidates' platform and blogs to get familiarized with the candidates.  Let's keep the ball rolling by going directly to questions.
15:04:48 <suseROCKs> How questions will be asked.   People can ask a main question , and the moderators will put it into /topic.
15:05:03 <suseROCKs> Once the question is in /topic, the candidates will begin answering that question.
15:05:29 <suseROCKs> Now...  I'd like to ask those candidates who are here to identify themselves both by Nick and Real Name so we all know who's present.
15:05:52 <seife> Stefan "seife" Seyfried
15:05:53 <lupinstein> lupinstein a.k.a terrorpup a.k.a Chuck Payne
15:06:06 <znggo> Matt Barringer
15:06:10 <manugupt1> Manu Gupta (manugupt1)
15:06:12 <tittiatcoke> Raymond "tittiatcoke" Wooninck
15:06:23 <robjo> Robert Schweikert (robjo)
15:06:29 <Ilmehtar> Richard Brown aka ilmehtar aka "I can't pronounce my own nick"
15:06:52 <caf4926> me caf4926 carl fletcher
15:08:17 <suseROCKs> Awesome all 8 candidates appear to be here.  Thank you candidates for your effort.
15:08:30 <suseROCKs> digitltom,   before we begin, do you have anything to add?
15:08:47 <digitltom> no ;-)
15:08:56 <suseROCKs> :-)
15:09:16 <suseROCKs> ok so, let's jump right into questions.   I see no early submission of questions, so who here has a question to get the ball rolling?
15:09:42 <anditosan> me me me
15:09:43 <lupinstein> Can Candidates ask questions?
15:10:00 <suseROCKs> anditosan,  state your question
15:10:14 <anditosan> 1. I see some proposals for better communication within the community. What are some specific ideas that you have to improve this aspect?
15:10:51 <znggo> Work reports from the board sent out regularly to the appropriate lists would be a first start IMO
15:11:21 <manugupt1> The second thing I believe is encourage the community to ask questions to the Board..
15:12:05 <caf4926> anditosan: from my point of view if the candidate is well involved in the community already and has a good understanding of user needs, this will help
15:12:21 <seife> I don't have that proposal on my list :-)
15:12:39 <lupinstein> I think we should should social media as a means to get the message out. With google translate, there should not be any excuse to translate any reports, messages so that everyone gets what the board is doing. I also believe board should have an open door when it comes to the community so that the community feel we are here for them.
15:12:57 <Ilmehtar> We have some teams in the project who are doing a great job at communicating, both among themselves and between each other - the growing amount of chatter between the GNOME and KDE teams in particular
15:13:11 <seife> ...but as an opensuse-factory reader/writer, I'm participating in communication with a vital part of the community: the developers.
15:13:28 * znggo would oppose Google Translate being used for any board communication
15:13:33 <robjo> This has many aspects, thus we need to have multiple solutions. There is no general answer. - The board needs to communicate better, we need to figure out how to improve cross linking of teams, i.e. developers/packagers with marketing/art-work with forums.....
15:13:47 <lupinstein> We aren't using a lot tools that could get our messages out to all the members, I like to see openSUSE News come back like when Mann ran it with PDF a coloum from the boards one what we are working on.
15:14:18 <Ilmehtar> I'd like to see more of that kind of open, collaborative communication, and that also means from the board - I like suggestions like Matt's, people need to know what the board is upto, just as other contributors need to know what is going on in their parts of the project
15:14:39 <tittiatcoke> I believe that it is not only the communication to and from the board itself. It is also the communication within the community and with SUSE itself. One improvement could be Newsletters from the Board about topics discussed,
15:14:50 <anditosan> ok
15:15:02 <caf4926> *In my dealings with the board as a forum admin, I have found them to be quite in touch with the community and they certainly worked well with us in the forum team to establish some good ground rules in the forum
15:15:08 * anditosan these specifics are interesting
15:15:46 <suseROCKs> Does anyone have a followup question to this topic?
15:15:55 <manugupt1> caf4926: Can you correct me if I am wrong.. I had an experience last year I would like to discuss it too
15:15:59 <lupinstein> I have seen in the past the board seem to be a bit distant from the community that a lot stuff was only community in the irc channel. We need to be able to take what is spoke here and it out to the community.
15:16:29 <caf4926> manugupt1: not sure I understand your question
15:16:31 <robjo> The communication issue probably needs to be an explicit topic for board/project meetings for a while and then we need to divide and conquer the various aspects. This is a very braod topic
15:16:33 <anditosan> I am interested in knowing what can be done at a team level rather than from the board to the community. Working within the rest of the community to improve their communication is important to me
15:16:47 <anditosan> what do you propose to be done among teams to work on communication?
15:16:59 <znggo> Is that something the board can actually change?
15:17:18 <znggo> After all, if people don't want to talk to each other, they won't talk to each other :-)
15:17:20 <anditosan> what do you think? Should it,? can it?
15:18:44 <manugupt1> anditosan: between different teams or the same... if it is different teams, the teams should move forward and seek help when necessary.. like the news team will need the marketing team and the gnome team needs artwork for their wallpapers and themes.. somebody will have to step up
15:18:47 <robjo> I think the board can suggest a path of communication, i.e. one spokesperson for each of the various teams, this spokes person send announcements/progress/work reports to the announce list for example
15:18:48 <nmarques> I have a question, how can I submit it ? :)
15:18:49 <tittiatcoke> I believe that the board can facilitate communication on team level. Most of the things that disrupts communication is that one team doesn't know what the other team is doing. By providing a communication platform (Maybe even Social Media, openSUSE News, etc), this could be improved. I have seen this between Gnome and KDE teams. Once you identify common goals, communication will follow
15:19:52 <Ilmehtar> I think it should be within the capabilities of the board to encourage and hopefully foster better communication within teams. We've got good examples like the desktop teams, it might be the place of the board to nudge teams to follow similar practices if teams are struggling to have the same degree of communication
15:19:56 <suseROCKs> nmarques,   as soon as this topic is done, we'll ask you what your question is and enter it into the topic.   Shold be ust a few minutes.
15:20:02 <suseROCKs> *just
15:20:14 <lupinstein> anditosan, if you are asking how the board could help to teams communication. Maybe if there are issue of communication problem, the board could help in team meeting, help be a bridge to make sure every can speak.
15:20:14 * nmarques grins evilly
15:20:29 <caf4926> *all of us here are well involved but a huge number of users that are new to the LinuxLand, not necessarilly opensuse members, just don't really know about the communication we have (irc, ML), I meet many who don't even know what irc is and couldn't even set it up. Maybe we need a better news front, that could include a news letter from the board and it's doings..
15:21:23 * anditosan analyzes
15:21:32 <znggo> I don't think the board can force anyone (or any team) to do anything.  Encourage co-operation between teams, sure, but at a certain point it's all volunteers.
15:21:42 * seife also had trouble setting up irc, especially the dark colors of xchat drove me nuts
15:21:46 <manugupt1> suseROCKs: I think we can note this as an idea.. the board reports to the community.. most of us have a consensus
15:21:51 <suseROCKs> many good answers to this topic.  Any more answers before we move on to next topic?
15:21:58 <lupinstein> anditosan, I remember when suseROCKs, yaloki  were on the board, the helped mediate a lot of team meetings. I am will to do that.
15:22:07 <anditosan> aha
15:22:09 <anditosan> :D
15:22:22 <Ilmehtar> as am I
15:22:43 <suseROCKs> ok let's move on to next topic...
15:22:48 <caf4926> *is a konversation user and has no problem reading it or setting it up
15:23:02 <manugupt1> I am if the timings are ok.. sometimes when I am out of the country it will get difficult for me
15:23:04 <znggo> irssi4life
15:23:17 * lupinstein wants to remind everyone, that he is dyslexlic and sorry if his answer are unclear, and will take to make sure he proof reads before posting.
15:23:36 <lupinstein> nmarques, has a question
15:23:44 * nmarques grins evilly
15:23:46 <digitltom> nmarques:  what's your question?
15:25:07 <nmarques> The world changes and the community demands that the Board becomes objective oriented; In such scenario what would propose to youselves as your objectives and what metrics should the community member use to diagnose/evaluate your performance towards achieving the very own objectives suggested by yourselves ?
15:27:04 <znggo> My objectives, like probably everyone elses, would be to a) Push forward a mentorship program and b) Open better communication channels.  The metrics would be: a) Did the mentorship program get off the ground? [Y/N] b) Are people happier with the communication from the board? [Y/N]
15:27:17 <seife> obviously: someone has to define the objectives, and the board needs to report on the fulfillment.
15:28:01 <seife> The question is, if being a board member is something that's attractive in such an environment.
15:28:04 <nmarques> seife, so in other words... there's no initiative required for board members ? :)
15:28:16 <manugupt1> My Objectives : Report quarterly, that should become a norm ; and transparency in cash dealings or a set up where we can work on cashes with SUSE / other sponsors so
15:28:21 <robjo> One objective is to establish objectives ;) From my point of view there are none today. Even in a volunteer "organization" I believe in accountability, from everyone not just the board. The board needs to agree on what is needed, then make it a priority, publicize it and work on it to conclusion. May this be a mentor program financial transparency or other topic.
15:28:35 <caf4926> nmarques: it's a community, the objectives are driven by the community, the board needs to be listening and have good coms to best understand and interpret such
15:29:10 <nmarques> caf4926, Sirko's expulsion was a fine example of the Board listening to the people (behind closed doors, and thats for you AlanClark)
15:29:10 <lupinstein> I want to see the Foundation get set up finial it been talked about 4 years. I think once we do that then we can work setting up education programs for new users. Setting up better ambassador project.   Listening to the community on what works, that that feed back improve on it and share it.
15:29:17 <seife> nmarques: well, the answer to the question is: the board needs to report on the fulfillment of the objectives. The judgement if they are met or not is onto the reader of that report.
15:29:38 <Ilmehtar> one thing I'd like to bring to the community is the idea of defining a 'Goal' for the Project, possibly defining a target audience/use case for the distribution. the metrics for that would be, does the community agree with the need for a goal, and if so, does it select one?
15:30:31 <nmarques> if I would vote, my vote would be for manugupt1 :)
15:30:45 <nmarques> thanks all for the kind answers, I already know what I wanted to know :)
15:30:57 <nmarques> good luck all, and may the best win
15:30:59 <tittiatcoke> As the other candidates already indicate it that the main objectives are driven by the community. However the board elections provides already some objectives where the community can indicate whether or not they are important. Each candidate has it's own goals/objectives of what he wants to establish when he would be elected. Based on the voting we should have quite a good picture of which goals/objectives are important for
15:30:59 <caf4926> nmarques: clearly such actions have to be taken for a reason and should be done under established protocol/rules and with a team agreement
15:31:00 <tittiatcoke> the community itself. The board should confirm them and report on them
15:31:30 <lupinstein> we have SUSE Studio, OSB, and Google Summer of Code. All of which we have worked hard one.  I like to see getting more things out.
15:32:27 <lupinstein> nmarques, that was two years ago. And there was a lot more going one. And it wasn't just AlanClark, it was the whole board. I remeber I was there when a lot of attacks happen.
15:33:31 <nmarques> lupinstein, jump to next topic :)
15:33:46 <nmarques> I already know who has goals defined and who didn't had any ;)
15:34:09 <nmarques> thx all
15:34:10 <nmarques> peace
15:34:22 <suseROCKs> Ok   does anyone have a new question to ask the candidates?
15:34:23 <robjo> The board needs to be more than a "reportor/monitor". It is important to keep the hands on the pulse of the community, no question. But some things just need to be initiated by the board and then set free. Board needs to actively call for volunteers for certain intiatives.
15:34:32 <CarlosRibeiro> \me hands up?
15:34:41 <CarlosRibeiro> yes, I have a question
15:34:45 <robjo> s/reportor/reporter/
15:34:49 <manugupt1> +1 robjo
15:34:56 <lupinstein> The board has a very difficult issue. I think it would be best not to drag that up, since a lot of people probably don't know everything. I think we need to move on. Focus on what the board can do to better the community as a whole
15:35:10 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   State your question please.
15:35:25 <CarlosRibeiro> Dear candidates, any proposal to improve ambassadors program?
15:36:14 <robjo> There was a talk at osc12 concerning the revamped program, is this not sufficient?
15:36:21 <znggo> I don't know enough about the program to answer
15:36:24 <tux93> im not a board member but i suggest to watch kostas talk from osc12
15:36:25 <Ilmehtar> Certainly, warlordfff and others (including myself) have already been working on the Ambassador programme 2.0 - there was a good presentation about it at the openSUSE conference
15:36:27 <robjo> What are the detailed issues you have with the program?
15:36:42 <seife> I'll be honest: I don't know much about the ambassador program, so I don't have an opinion on it.
15:37:15 <CarlosRibeiro> well, I already seen the wonderfull presentation b the kostas at conference, my point is not related with one specific subject, but in general
15:37:43 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro: Yes.. and I believe Richard, Kostas, and Izabel to give their best. Also, recently Agustin seriously indicated a revamped ambassador program,
15:37:46 <lupinstein> CarlosRibeiro, you know I have a very special place for the ambassador program. I love us to give the tools they need. Right, I am sad to see we haven't announce any new ambassador as we have in the past. I like to see the ambassador 2.0 place out so that everyone can read it and give feed back on it.
15:38:04 <manugupt1> So yes there will be improvements :)
15:38:15 <CarlosRibeiro> I believe the ambassadors program is a key program to reach the communicatin improvement to the community, because this ambassadors program appear in my head
15:38:32 <Ilmehtar> I'm not sure I understand the question then. There's already a community effort to improve the ambassador program, it's underway, I don't see why it would need the involvement of the board at this stage, unless theres some problems I'm not aware of?
15:39:04 <CarlosRibeiro> ok, thanks all for the answers
15:39:31 <suseROCKs> any more responses to this question?  If not, I'll turn the floor over to digitltom to handle the next question
15:39:49 <Ilmehtar> if there are any problems that crop up implementing ambassadors 2.0, heck yeah I plan to help out and get that programme running, but I'll be doing that whether or not I'm elected to the board ;-)
15:40:22 <robjo> The ambassador program is very important, I think everyone will agree with that and will certainly get the support from the board and any newly elected member. However, suggesting improvements to a new program (2.0) that has not really seen much light of day yet is a bit pre-mature.
15:40:30 <CarlosRibeiro> Ilmehtar, lovelly is this the right answer I like to see, perfect in my humble opinion
15:40:44 <lupinstein> I like to see us create more pdf like how to install openSUSE, that the ambassador can print out and give to people a long with the DVD that they pass out. I like to see the ambassador become or like teachers so that when they go out they can educate everyone on all the products we have to offer, how to get more people to get into community.  I think if we have our own pdf magazine that would be a big plus for
15:40:44 <lupinstein> everyone.
15:41:13 <digitltom> so, who has another question?
15:41:18 * tux93 raises hand
15:41:30 <digitltom> tux93:  go on please
15:41:32 <lupinstein> The ambassadors our salemen for the community and the more tools and support we give them, the better we look
15:41:33 <manugupt1> Ilmehtar: CarlosRibeiro: What I believe is this programme should start off as soon as possible.. We can always shape the imperfections..
15:41:39 <tux93> my question is about the foundatin: some, not all, of the candidates have posted their plans for it on their plattform, so what are your plans to finally get it started?
15:41:57 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1, +1
15:42:44 <znggo> It would be really great to have a foundation, but I didn't mention it in my platform because I don't know enough about the problems that have been encountered so far in setting one up
15:43:01 <Ilmehtar> a lot has changed in the last few years, SUSE's status as a company, SUSE's relationship with the project. A few years ago there were a lot of frictions which led me to believing we needed a Foundation to exert the independance I felt we were lacking at the time
15:43:35 <seife> is there a consensus that a foundation is wanted / needed? I have skimmed some of the discussions over the last years, but I don't seem to remember that there was an outcome?
15:43:49 <caf4926> seife: +1
15:44:01 <lupinstein> One, I haven't seen or heard were we stand on Foundation. So I like to work with SUSE and see if can push to get started. I really think if we have the foundation it would help community over all.  I think that now SUSE is back as it own. That we will have the support and can move forward, but we need to see what work as been done. Pick up and move forward.
15:44:14 <Ilmehtar> but time has moved on, things have changed, I think SUSE do a much better job of being a sponsor while giving us the room to be our own, independent, Project. If the community still wants one, I'll support it, but I personally would prefer tackling just any 'pain points' which remain
15:44:40 <Ilmehtar> such as the concerns about money, receiving donations, etc - all of which I believe could have solutions that do not require a full foundation
15:44:48 <znggo> seife: for finances, i can see it being useful.  Not having to rely on a company to handle the bookkeeping and legal aspect would be a huge positive
15:44:49 <tittiatcoke> I agree with seife that the bigger question is if a foundation is still wanted / needed.
15:45:02 <caf4926> *too many balls in the air?... whatever the community drives for must have a solid objective and reason, don't just do it for doing it sake
15:45:30 <robjo> The idea of a foundation was born at a completely different time of the openSUSE project. Since the idea was born many changes have occurred at SUSE. I think the idea of a foundation is stuck in peoples head and while it was needed at the time the idea was born I am not certain this is still the case today. Further I am not certain that anyone, or collectively, we have taken stock an re-evaluated whether or not the founda
15:45:34 <caf4926> *or just do it because we like the sound of it..
15:45:53 <manugupt1> tux93: To really answer these questions I feel we need to ask ourselves a few questions.. What are the tasks related to it? Like Finances, More transparency, More paper work, More independence, More sponsors.. The second question is are we ready to have a foundation? I believe no, If you ask why
15:45:54 <lupinstein> Ilmehtar, if we had the foundation we could help the project by getting funds to help the many different teams. That was talk that the foundation would be great for that.
15:46:33 <seife> caf4926: +1
15:46:43 <manugupt1> Then my answer would be we never took the trouble to get independent while SUSE was with us.. so now I believe we should work on the smaller bits and maybe in the next 6 months or so we will be ready
15:47:20 <manugupt1> smaller bits includes reporting and maintaining small amounts of case. etc.. That would be my answer tittiatcoke
15:47:25 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: that might be so, but I'm not convinced we couldn't do that anyway. I would rather investigate options like the Software Freedom Conservancy, rather than push for a full foundation which would have significantly higher administrative burden
15:47:26 <manugupt1> tux93:  .. sorry
15:48:59 <tux93> ok, thanks for your answers, shedding some light
15:49:21 <suseROCKs> Anyone with a new question?
15:49:31 <lupinstein> maybe I am wrong, but if we had a foundation we could get money from the sell of things to help fund us
15:49:54 <suseROCKs> or do candidates wish to continue on this topic for a few more minutes?
15:49:58 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: I dont think you are wrong, but I think there could be other ways to achieve that same goal
15:50:00 <znggo> lupinstein: that's possible without a foundation, the complicated part is how to handle the tax accounting
15:50:13 <robjo> I also think many in the community are a bit naive about what it means to be a foundation. We are not going to get sponsors beating down our doors just because we are a foundation, to name just one example. Fund raising is hard work and requires dedicated people.
15:50:13 <lupinstein> without it, the money would go to SUSE like the money from Google Summer of Code, but I could be wrong.
15:50:18 * seife has 10 more minutes before he has to leave
15:50:42 <suseROCKs> ok let's move on to a new question to give seife a chance to answer one more topic before he leaves
15:50:43 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: if the money goes to SUSE, and SUSE then use that money for what openSUSE want to use it for, where is the problem?
15:50:49 <suseROCKs> question anyone?
15:50:58 <manugupt1> lupinstein: Last time heard, Jos telling in a mailing list that we do get money.. so thats great..  :) but we need some transparency there.. I believe.. which should be a role for the next board
15:51:16 <lupinstein> Well when I talked with AlanClark, but this was when Novell was still in charge, he told me hard to get funds directly to openSUSE
15:51:36 <lupinstein> with the Foundation it would be,
15:51:39 <robjo> lupinstein: The money may go onto the SUSE books, but as long as it flows back to the project and is accounted for what's the problem?
15:51:51 <manugupt1> lupinstein: I think we need it before the foundation
15:52:11 <lupinstein> well I want to sell an ebook, and give a part of the sales to openSUSE
15:52:12 <manugupt1> robjo: the only problem is we do not have any accounts for it..
15:52:37 <lupinstein> it would be hard for me to give to SUSE, because I am not sure if it would all go to openSUSE.
15:52:43 <znggo> robjo: flexibility, independence, and accountability
15:52:51 <robjo> manugupt1: I agree that we need more transparency, in the end what the account is named should not matter
15:52:57 * vuntz has a question
15:53:22 <znggo> robjo: also, possible tax-deductible status
15:53:22 <lupinstein> anyway foundation would be a plus for transparency in my opinion.
15:53:23 <suseROCKs> ok let's revisit the foundation question again soon as there's lots of good discussion here.   vuntz   what's your question?
15:53:29 <manugupt1> robjo: Agreed.. and that is why I say.. Foundation can be a consequence once we handle the more important issues at hand
15:54:29 <vuntz> since the board work can take some time, do you think this will have some impact on your other openSUSE contributions? Are there people to back you up for those contributions?
15:54:32 <robjo> There are areas where things need to be improved, I do not see a Foundation as a silver bullet.
15:54:52 <lupinstein> robjo, if it was a foundation like znggo state, a good tax right off for donations.
15:55:02 <znggo> vuntz: I'll still volunteer to co-admin for GSoC :-)
15:55:24 <lupinstein> robjo, it not. But it would be a big step for us
15:55:49 <seife> yes, it will, obviously: time spent on board matters will not be spent on packaging / bugfixing.
15:55:55 <caf4926> vuntz: likely yes, but I have a pretty flexible day, everyday and my admin and mod team all give great support in the forum
15:55:57 <suseROCKs> lupinstein, let's revisit the Foundation topic if there's still time (we have over an hour left) and focus on new question
15:56:18 <robjo> lupinstein: I get the feeling that the foundation is being pushed just to have. I may be wrong.
15:56:22 <Ilmehtar> I think it's going to have some impact, but as I'm re-arranging stuff in my life to improve the amount of time I have to contribute, I hoping the teams I'm most involved in will probably still see a net increase in my activity
15:56:29 <seife> everything else would be just ignoring the fact that a day has only 24 hours and that there is a life beyond openSUSE :-)
15:56:56 <manugupt1> vuntz: So far.. Last year my only contribution was GSoC organizing and due to my sudden movement to Korea, I was not able to help a lot in GCI ; But I believe that was a transition period for me and I will continue to do this.. Furthermore, I am already talikng to last year's GSoC admins regarding this so that if I am busy / unavailable, there is someone to take care of it
15:57:24 <caf4926> *we are all volunteers (mostly) and it's amazing the support we all give if you ask me
15:57:35 <robjo> To vuntz' question: Yes, I suspect there will be an impact on my other openSUSE contributions. However, when I see this impact occur I plan to ask for help. At this point there is no "backup" person.
15:57:44 <manugupt1> I would limit myself to doing 2 or 3 things successfully rather than try everywhere
15:58:18 <caf4926> manugupt1: such wise words :-)
15:58:21 <tittiatcoke> vuntz: The board will indeed be taking a lot of time and this will reduce the time that I can spend on package maintenance. However I believe that the KDE team is able to compensate and I was only allowed to be a candidate if I promised to still spend some of the time on packaging
15:58:21 <lupinstein> I am only doing Ambassador work there are may of us. Plus, my work on the SELF board.  I wasn't active last year because the birth of my daugter and change jobs, but I am getting more time to work again. I been do a bit of writing and I am will have time.
15:58:58 <Ilmehtar> even if I wasn't shuffling stuff about - yes, there are people already 'backing me up' with my contributions in artwork, and of course the great group of gallant gnomers ;-)
16:00:02 <caf4926> *friends I have to leave for 15 mins, I have a public meeting item to prepare for tonight, BRB ASAP
16:00:06 <CarlosRibeiro> I really need to go to go, even I'm loving to see the candidates answers and statments. Good luck 4@ll , and I hope the best and well prepared candidate get ellected
16:00:12 <suseROCKs> seife,   were you able to answer fully before you have to leave?
16:00:24 <CarlosRibeiro> by thanks you good luck 4 all
16:00:31 <seife> yes
16:00:36 <caf4926> suseROCKs: BRB ASAP
16:00:40 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   we will post the rresults of the debate everywhere after today.  You'll be able to read th e rest soon  :-)
16:00:55 <suseROCKs> seife,   Ok.  Thank you very much for sparing your time for today's debate.
16:01:26 <suseROCKs> let's take a brief break, we've been here an hour and in a couple of minutes we move on to next question 9moderated by digitltom)   everyone stand up and do leg stretches!
16:02:24 <seife> if there are questions people really want *me* to answer, my nick @opensuse.org is the email address to send those to.
16:02:32 <seife> bye!
16:02:32 * malcolmlewis drinks coffee and ignores leg streches
16:02:43 * Ilmehtar wishes he had redbull
16:04:00 * malcolmlewis hides the world stockpile of redbull
16:04:17 <suseROCKs> digitltom,   whenever you're ready to re-start  :-)
16:04:43 <digitltom> so, who has the next question?
16:06:18 <henne> *yawn*
16:06:20 <lupinstein> we have talked about community, but how to the other candidates feel about losing a lot of member to open-slx?
16:07:17 <suseROCKs> henne,    surely you have lots of questions.  You always have good questions to ask  :-)
16:07:41 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: I'd argue whether or not we've lost a 'lot of members' to open-slx - all of their websites community links point back to openSUSE community pages
16:07:57 <henne> suseROCKs: I didn't pay attention so I disqualified myself
16:08:22 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: I think it's nice that we make such a good distribution that they chose to make a derivative of it, and I'm pretty sure most of their contributors are still, directly and indirectly, contributing to 'our' project
16:08:23 <robjo> Loosing contributors/members is not a good thing, but also inevitable, people move on to other things for whatever reason. I was not aware that there was a particular problem with open-slx.
16:08:27 <znggo> i thought open-slx was a SLES clone?
16:08:44 <znggo> s/clone/derivative/
16:09:37 <znggo> anyway, people should choose the distro that best fits them, and if open-slx is better for someone, more power to them
16:09:54 <tittiatcoke> The KDE area didn't loose any members to open-slx, but the loss was more due to the reorganization of the boosters team
16:09:55 <suseROCKs> lupinstein,   perhaps you can expand on what you mean by losing members and the issues with open-slx as seems people aren't fully aware of htis.
16:10:25 <suseROCKs> *this
16:10:31 <lupinstein> well from what I heard, open-slx is taking the work of openSUSE and selling their box edition base on it.
16:10:52 <lupinstein> we lost S. Mann to them, our new editor for years
16:11:32 <lupinstein> We have lost a few others. I know at one point Novell was were that they were trying to set up a new SUSE.
16:12:24 <robjo> Taking openSUSE and building a product on top of it is a great compliment to our work, we should be happy about that. There will always be people that leave the project and move on.
16:13:08 <manugupt1> I agree with robjo
16:13:12 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: we're an open source project - as long as they're not breaching GPL or other licenses, isn't that 'take our stuff and make it better' actually something we quite like? Heck, SUSE have Studio which makes thousands upon thousands of openSUSE derivatives
16:13:14 <lupinstein> I been wiry about open-slx, I hate us to lose good people. I hate to see the work being taking with out them giving something back to us.
16:13:30 <znggo> The first distro I worked for recompiled RedHat packages.  SUSE started out similarly.  I can't complain at all about open-slx.
16:13:36 <lupinstein> true but they give back
16:14:04 <lupinstein> I haven't seen open-slx give anything back, maybe I am wrong
16:14:13 <robjo> Stephan used to work for SUSE, so have others. Some choose to stay involved in openSUSE, other choose not to. I am not certain there is much we can do as a board. Now if there is a "mass exodus" we have to look at the situation but having a handful of people leave is not what I would consider a "mass exodus"
16:16:02 <tittiatcoke> robjo: +1  However we should have a look how this impacts the divers teams within the openSUSE project. It could be that if all of them were working in a particular area, that could create issues in that area. But in general you can not prevent people from switching distro nor community
16:16:23 <lupinstein> I know people are going to copy left, but it would be great to see them give back. Even it is just a little here and there.   I know the board can't control it.
16:17:27 <robjo> tittiatcoke: Yes, if a significant number of people from one team leave it is certainly something that needs attention.
16:17:38 <lupinstein> I remember how before there was a SUSE that the guys were helping out Slackware, because of the work they did, knew they could do a better job and created SUSE. BUt for a while you can see them giving back to Slackware.
16:17:46 <Ilmehtar> lupinstein: the open-slx forums have 58 registered users, I'm sure one or two of them is bound to have contributed something back to openSUSE at some point, and if that hunch is correct that's actually a pretty good rate of return
16:18:21 <lupinstein> anyway, next question I just want to see where every one stood on open-slx.
16:18:25 <znggo> lupinstein: I don't think this is really within the scope of the Q&A :-)
16:18:37 <manugupt1> Also, I can still see packages from sascha.. :)
16:19:29 <suseROCKs> ok    we've covered so much   awesome.   Does anyone have a new question?  If not, we can revisit the Foundations question if the candidates feel they need more time on that one.
16:20:25 <robjo> I am not certain revisiting the foundation question will lead to further information.
16:20:57 <robjo> IMHO it is pretty obvious where candidates stand w.r.t. the foundation.
16:21:09 <suseROCKs> note:  I'm not encouraging its revisit.  I merely promised the opportunity when I interjected earlier to get a new question out so seife could answer one more question before leaving  :-)
16:21:41 <robjo> We can continue to argue over the merits but that is probably not helpful in this context of the discussion
16:21:58 <suseROCKs> However, if there are no new questions or revisits, we can move on to closing the debate.
16:22:14 <suseROCKs> Do the candidates themselves have questions or statements they wish to make in closing?
16:22:52 <Ilmehtar> This has been a great debate, thank you Bryen, Tom, and the election team for helping put it all together, and organising a great election so far
16:23:06 <robjo> +1
16:23:11 <lupinstein> thank Bryen and Tom
16:23:15 <znggo> indeed!
16:23:20 <manugupt1> Thanks  a lot.. Cheers to you guys :)
16:23:20 <tittiatcoke> Ilmehtar: +1  Thanks a lot to the Election team for this
16:23:24 <yaloki> you know, it's funny
16:23:34 <suseROCKs> digitltom,   any other words before we wrap up?
16:23:36 <robjo> Also thanks to those that took the time to ask questions and those following along.
16:23:36 <yaloki> all candidates state the same stuff that has been stated by every candidate every time
16:23:54 <cenuij> sounds like politics to me! ;)
16:24:06 <lupinstein> lol, I have you to base my campain on yaloki
16:24:32 <yaloki> no but apparently assuming everyone who's been on the board is a bunch of lazy morons ;)
16:24:32 <cenuij> touché! :P
16:24:42 <slowhand> ah i missed the debate :-(
16:24:51 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: I was going to run on a platform of "Free beer and laptops for all" but I drank all the money I had for that plan
16:24:57 * henne is definitve
16:24:57 <yaloki> Ilmehtar: damn!
16:25:12 <caf4926> is back
16:25:21 <Ilmehtar> yaloki: and I don't think you're lazy ;-)
16:25:28 <henne> yaloki: at least we had the hawaii retreat
16:25:29 <yaloki> well, we'll see what will remain when the new board members will be faced with reality :)
16:25:32 <suseROCKs> caf4926,   Hi,  we're wrapping up now.  I don't htink you missed much.  Is there any closing statement you wish to make?
16:25:34 <yaloki> henne: ^^
16:25:35 <robjo> yaloki: no one said that, however, the work is not visible.....
16:25:44 <yaloki> hmhm yeah yeah :)
16:25:45 <lupinstein> yaloki, I was amazed you never slept
16:26:04 <lupinstein> you were always working on something.
16:26:05 <znggo> suseROCKs: I would just like to say that I think that teaching dogs to drive cars, as they are doing in New Zealand, will ruin the taxi industry.
16:26:21 <henne> robjo: that's also bs imho. what the board(s) have done is visible
16:26:42 <henne> robjo: what's not visible either can't be visible or simply wasn't done :)
16:26:44 <yaloki> to me we're at a point where the _project_ needs to find what it wants its board for
16:26:50 <yaloki> not the opposite :)
16:26:54 <suseROCKs> znggo,    Hehe.  I agree.   I wanted to get a seeing eye dog so I could drive, but humane society said it was not a good idea to have my dog run alongside my car on the highway.
16:27:10 <yaloki> the board is not a totalitarian regime that decides everything
16:27:16 <yaloki> if that's what you're looking for, try fedora ^^
16:27:20 <caf4926> suseROCKs: No, thanks for looking after us. Whatever happens, lets work together as a community, openSUSE Rocks!
16:27:32 <suseROCKs> ok let's close up...
16:27:33 <robjo> henne: OK, that's why you have a lot of people singing the same tune, "better communication from the board", there is a disconnect somewhere
16:27:35 <lupinstein> yaloki, you had that messy business to deal with as well.
16:27:47 <suseROCKs> digitltom and I would like to express great gratitude to the candidates for making their time available.
16:27:59 <yaloki> suseROCKs: dunno what messy business you mean … ?
16:28:03 <suseROCKs> Gratitude to the community for being here and making this a well flowing debate
16:28:12 <suseROCKs> and my personal gratitude to digitltom for his assistance in this matter.
16:28:24 <henne> robjo: it's the default tune. ask somebody about someone else and they will sing you that :)
16:28:35 <suseROCKs> Everyone  please remember to vote  (But not Chicago-style where we vote often!)  before Deember 16 at 23:00 UTC!
16:28:36 <cenuij> speaking of communities, who will go and create the opensuse official community on new G+ features RE: http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/google-communities-and-photos.html
16:29:12 <suseROCKs> #endmeeting