08:07:03 <manugupt1> #startmeeting  Collaboration Day-PR and Social Media
08:07:03 <bugbot> Meeting started Tue Dec 21 08:07:03 2010 UTC.  The chair is manugupt1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:07:03 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:07:21 <suseROCKs> oh, starting already  :-)
08:07:21 <manugupt1> #chair jospoortvliet suseROCKs
08:07:21 <bugbot> Current chairs: jospoortvliet manugupt1 suseROCKs
08:07:29 <manugupt1> Its time sir
08:07:38 <suseROCKs> one more hour, I believe
08:07:45 <psankar> i guess there is one more hour
08:07:56 <suseROCKs> nothing wrong with starting up the meetbot though
08:07:59 <manugupt1> Its 1:30 if I remember correctly or is it day light savings
08:08:08 <manugupt1> The new corrections
08:08:11 <psankar> I bet jospoortvliet hasnt had his morning cereal yet
08:08:29 <suseROCKs> or his morning constipation
08:08:45 <sj> yuk
08:08:48 <sj> :)
08:09:14 <psankar> suseROCKs, If you have indian food, there are less chances of constipation ;-)
08:09:34 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   I suggest you to put in some relevant info in #topic   such as the link to your document
08:09:36 * psankar atlast nailed a critsit bug :) after about two weeks of debugging
08:10:07 <psankar> manugupt1, I suggest we end the meeting if we are not having something now. it will record everything needless otherwise afaik
08:10:39 <suseROCKs> so guys... (while this is being recorded)... Tell me what you REALLY think of psankar
08:10:56 * psankar runs away and hides
08:11:09 <sj> and suseROCKs  *
08:11:11 * psankar looks for a nice place to run
08:11:19 <psankar> sj, now you stop me ;-)
08:11:24 <sj> :)
08:11:49 <sj> i had indian food after really long time today
08:12:00 <sj> roti, chana , rice and dal :)
08:12:08 <suseROCKs> and idli?
08:12:10 * psankar too just had the same for lunch :-)
08:12:15 <sj> no :0
08:12:16 <psankar> suseROCKs, idli is a breakfast item
08:12:18 <sj> psankar, wow :)
08:12:24 <manugupt1> Nice..
08:12:30 <psankar> the same. roti, channa, rice and dal
08:12:32 <psankar> and some papaya
08:12:33 <suseROCKs> psankar,  yeah so?   You never had a craving for breakfast item in the middle of the night?  :-)
08:12:49 <sj> and now i ordered some pizza . So i guess i will be fine for sometime :P
08:12:55 <psankar> suseROCKs, hehe. idly is like cereal, you never crave for it. if possible you try to avoid it ;-)
08:13:01 <sj> now=an hour or so back *
08:13:18 <manugupt1> I am ending this meeting :) now
08:13:26 <sj> its a foodie meeting
08:13:27 <sj> :)
08:13:41 <manugupt1> and thinking of changing the meet to foodie meet sj
08:13:53 <sj> hah !
08:15:08 * sj works 8 in the morning :P and is in no mood to hit bed early tonight
09:03:55 <manugupt1> Hi all
09:04:04 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, are you awake
09:05:05 <sj> we are 5 min later
09:05:08 <sj> late*
09:05:15 <sj> what the heck is going on
09:05:21 <sj> :)
09:05:25 <manugupt1> sj, actually we are 1 hour earlier
09:05:31 <sj> really ?
09:05:33 <sj> well , :D
09:05:45 <manugupt1> Hi javier_ :)
09:05:54 <manugupt1> sj, look at this
09:05:56 <manugupt1> http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php
09:06:09 <manugupt1> Now what we need is just text smithing
09:06:21 <sj> i see
09:06:35 <manugupt1> And offcourse the 11.2 box
09:06:36 <sj> could you elaborate a bit more :)
09:07:06 <manugupt1> Ok.. this we are planning as the landing page for openSUSE
09:08:00 <sj> i see
09:08:05 <manugupt1> So this is the design and we need to add text to it and all the links and we will be good to go
09:08:39 <manugupt1> Offcourse the footer needs to be changed
09:08:40 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   you woke me up???
09:08:51 <manugupt1> yes suseROCKs get to work
09:08:55 <manugupt1> http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php
09:09:06 <sj> i am not sure , it will be good to have a slideshow of images instead the 11.2 box image
09:09:27 <manugupt1> Yes.. but we need images for that.. transparent pngs
09:09:40 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Comments sir
09:10:03 <sj> but so manugupt1 everything sounds good !
09:10:03 <sj> so far *
09:10:19 <sj> yep !
09:10:22 <manugupt1> Yes.. if someone does the pngs for us I cannot do them
09:11:03 <sj> manugupt1, see the slideshow here - http://www.whitehouse.gov/
09:11:11 <sj> 4-5 should be enough
09:11:28 <sj> and when i say images/slideshow ,i mean some catchy texts too :)
09:11:59 <manugupt1> Ok.. I get that sir as in www.fedoraproject.org
09:12:06 <sj> creating pngs is not a problem .We need some effecitve content
09:12:11 <sj> effective *
09:12:12 <sj> :)
09:12:30 <sj> yep !
09:12:35 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   ok  I added a few notes to your page
09:12:48 <manugupt1> We have loads of desktop showcases :)
09:12:55 <sj> any link ?
09:12:58 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, where
09:13:13 <suseROCKs> at the top regarding accounts
09:13:29 <sj> we desktop showcases , a 11.3 box pic which will redirect to its original page and so on
09:13:43 <sj> manugupt1, lets say 4 slideshows and it will have
09:13:48 <sj> 1) 11.3 box
09:13:55 <sj> 2) About the community
09:14:14 <sj> well thats all i can get in mind now
09:14:54 <suseROCKs> ok I'll be back in a while, guys!
09:15:30 <manugupt1> 3) on Desktop showcase
09:15:33 <manugupt1> 4) OBS
09:15:38 <sj> perfect !
09:15:55 <sj> we can have the art-team coordinated with us , to get some cool pics and text on them
09:16:21 <manugupt1> sj, I cannot find suseROCKs comments
09:16:51 <manugupt1> Ok.. so we need to give the dimension
09:17:17 <sj> me neither
09:17:22 <sj> well okay !
09:17:39 <sj> rlihm, any approximations ?
09:19:10 <manugupt1> Ok.. one sec
09:19:20 <manugupt1> I will look into it can you hunt for some images
09:19:56 <sj> sure
09:22:53 <sj> this for OBS - http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=File:Obs_Webclient.jpg&filetimestamp=20100520141747 ?
09:23:45 <manugupt1> Ok.. this is approximately 60% of 960px
09:23:58 <manugupt1> Looks too geeky
09:24:08 <manugupt1> Must be a crowdpuller
09:24:15 <manugupt1> but OBS is geeky
09:24:16 <sj> i see
09:24:37 <sj> well i dont think hunting down will solve it , we need to create something
09:25:22 <manugupt1> Look at this slideshow http://news.opensuse.org/
09:25:46 <manugupt1> Check out the forth image... and it will surely rock
09:26:07 <manugupt1> rlihm, did you make these excellent choices and artwork
09:26:11 <sj> sorry
09:26:13 <manugupt1> at news.opensuse.org
09:26:18 <manugupt1> Its ok..
09:26:32 <sj> exactly
09:26:47 <sj> i wanted something exactly the same as here -
09:26:55 <sj> the new.o.o link
09:27:07 <sj> sweet work rlihm  :
09:27:09 <sj> :) *
09:27:32 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) Look at the milestone image can you see 11.4 M4 there
09:28:06 <sj> damn it
09:28:07 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) Look at the milestone image can you see 11.4 M4 there
09:28:11 <manugupt1> ;)
09:29:13 <manugupt1> Back again sj
09:29:19 <sj> yeah !
09:29:35 <manugupt1> Damn it I lost my chair and I wont be able to make #info's
09:29:55 <manugupt1> We need jos or suserock
09:30:03 <sj> yeah
09:30:07 <sj> ping suseROCKs jospoortvliet
09:30:44 <sj> stop whatever heck  you guys are doing , and get here right now :)
09:30:44 <manugupt1> Ok... we will move forward
09:30:47 <sj> jk :D
09:30:50 <sj> sure !
09:31:11 <manugupt1> Words to describe openSUSE This should be fun right
09:31:19 <sj> yeah :)
09:31:29 <manugupt1> Mind you total words combined cannot be more than 170 characters
09:31:35 <sj> do you have anything in mind ?
09:31:37 <sj> okay !
09:31:53 <manugupt1> sj, meta tags
09:32:07 <sj> ...sorry ?
09:32:26 <sj> no i mean words to describe openSUSE  ,do you have anything in mind for that ?
09:32:47 <manugupt1> No.. but these words will be used as meta tags
09:32:55 <sj> okay !
09:33:03 <manugupt1> So this should be simple yet powerful
09:33:26 <manugupt1> Ok.. lets start with my suggestion
09:33:28 <sj> the current one is - Official website for the community-driven, open-development version of this distro. Find information on participation, bug reporting procedure, ...
09:33:29 <sj> sure
09:33:29 <manugupt1> openSUSE
09:33:42 <manugupt1> Just words:)
09:33:46 <manugupt1> Not statements
09:34:11 <sj> example ? I am not sure if words will sound good
09:34:12 <manugupt1> openSUSE, linux, build service
09:34:26 <sj> oh i see what you getting at , sorry my bad
09:35:13 <manugupt1> :) we have our Statements' expert jospoortvliet and helen who is not here as of now
09:35:34 <sj> cool !
09:35:52 <sj> then
09:36:02 <manugupt1> lets begin
09:36:05 <sj> openFATE , geeko (gecko ?) ,
09:36:16 <manugupt1> geeko
09:36:21 <manugupt1> SUSE
09:36:47 <yaloki> morning
09:36:50 <sj> suse studio
09:36:54 <sj> morning yaloki
09:36:55 <manugupt1> morning yaloki
09:37:18 <sj> edu-life
09:37:27 <sj> openSUSE gnome-kde
09:37:37 <sj> LXDE and XFCE
09:37:46 <manugupt1> opensuse medical
09:37:48 <sj> and Medical
09:37:48 <yaloki> playing a game? :)
09:37:50 <sj> yep
09:37:54 <sj> yaloki, the meta tag game :)
09:38:01 <yaloki> umm...
09:38:09 <sj> yaloki,  the one with more number , wins:)
09:38:19 <yaloki> tumbleweed
09:38:21 <yaloki> yast
09:38:23 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) yaloki describe openSUSE with the best
09:38:31 <yaloki> the people
09:38:38 <yaloki> friends
09:38:43 <yaloki> fun
09:38:44 <yaloki> :D
09:38:53 <sj> openSUSE package , download, software
09:38:58 <manugupt1> evergreen
09:39:00 <psankar> MSFT ;-)
09:39:02 <manugupt1> sj, that wont help
09:39:09 <sj> yeah :P
09:39:12 <yaloki> mm
09:39:13 <sj> MSFT ?
09:39:16 <yaloki> it's very important though
09:39:23 <manugupt1> psankar, lols..
09:39:36 <yaloki> sj, manugupt1: but it's very difficult to describe the "mix and match" we have through the OBS repositories in one or two catchy words :)
09:39:37 <psankar> sj, Microsoft. someone always brings it. so, me as well :-)
09:39:39 <sj> zypp
09:39:58 <yaloki> customize
09:40:08 <manugupt1> yaloki, meta tag ketword character limit is 170
09:40:09 <sj> yaloki, i see what you getting at
09:40:15 <sj> psankar, :)
09:40:20 <yaloki> mix-and-match then :P
09:40:28 <HeliosReds_> have
09:40:29 <HeliosReds_> a
09:40:31 <HeliosReds_> lot
09:40:32 <manugupt1> Ok.. I did not
09:40:32 <HeliosReds_> of
09:40:34 <HeliosReds_> fun
09:40:43 <yaloki> HeliosReds_-is-a-cheater :D
09:40:47 <manugupt1> Lols.. HeliosReds :) Good morning
09:41:04 <HeliosReds_> Morning everone!
09:41:21 <sj> morning
09:41:31 <HeliosReds_> I'm already in evening, though. ;-)
09:41:35 <manugupt1> Evergreen
09:41:47 <manugupt1> community
09:42:00 <sj> so manugupt1 did you get something to put in the list/book ?
09:42:05 <manugupt1> Yes
09:42:16 <manugupt1> Thats why I lagged
09:42:27 <manugupt1> The words so far are openSUSE
09:42:27 <manugupt1> linux
09:42:27 <manugupt1> build service
09:42:27 <manugupt1> geeko
09:42:27 <manugupt1> openFATE
09:42:28 <manugupt1> SUSE
09:42:30 <manugupt1> edu-life
09:42:32 <manugupt1> gnome
09:42:34 <manugupt1> kde
09:42:36 <manugupt1> suse studio
09:42:38 <manugupt1> medical
09:42:40 <manugupt1> tumbleweed
09:42:44 <manugupt1> yast
09:42:46 <manugupt1> evergreen
09:42:48 <manugupt1> people
09:42:50 <manugupt1> friends
09:42:52 <manugupt1> community
09:42:54 <manugupt1> OBS
09:43:01 <manugupt1> lxde
09:43:03 <manugupt1> xfce
09:43:05 <manugupt1> smeegol
09:43:09 <yaloki> board, elections
09:43:16 <HeliosReds_> osc
09:43:19 <yaloki> (other projects cannot elect their board members :))
09:43:27 <manugupt1> yaloki, not reqd
09:43:30 <sj> open source
09:43:48 <HeliosReds_> SuSEconfig
09:44:12 <manugupt1> Ok we are at 200 characters now
09:44:33 <manugupt1> So lets strike it to 170 characters I hate that
09:44:43 <manugupt1> sj, wins
09:44:53 <manugupt1> yaloki, is the runner up
09:44:55 <sj> hah :)
09:45:03 * yaloki hands sj a meta cookie
09:45:11 <manugupt1> HeliosReds, was late but made it till the end :)
09:45:16 * sj is overwhelmed
09:45:17 <sj> :)
09:45:52 <manugupt1> So what few words can we remove sj and sir yaloki
09:46:03 <rlihm> sj/manugupt1: sorry, was not at my desk. what did I miss?
09:46:15 <yaloki> manugupt1: remove "people" if we keep "friends"
09:46:21 <manugupt1> rlihm, the news.opensuse.org did you do the image selection
09:46:31 <yaloki> rlihm: manugupt1 just got nikkid
09:46:33 <sj> yaloki, +1
09:46:43 <rlihm> :-D
09:46:50 <rlihm> manugupt1: in the slideshow?
09:46:51 <rlihm> no
09:47:23 <sj> rlihm, do you know the dimension of the box here (wchich shows 11.2 box) - suseware.com/trial/extended.php ?
09:47:25 <rlihm> manugupt1: I guess henne picked the pix
09:47:32 <manugupt1> ok.. we need a slideshow for the front page.. :)
09:47:35 <sj> cool , we got the man :)
09:47:56 <yaloki> if the slideshow doesn't include it already, it really should have the group photo we did at the conference
09:47:56 <sj> rlihm, yeah ! . I was wondering if we can have the same (as the news.o.o) for the frontpage
09:48:01 <yaloki> for the "people" part :)
09:48:06 <sj> yaloki, +1 :)
09:48:12 <rlihm> manugupt1/sj: the place with the box in my mockup is for a slideshow
09:48:18 <manugupt1> So.. henne makes the selection right
09:48:19 <sj> we should try to make as formal and as official as possible
09:48:27 <sj> rlihm, perfect ;)
09:48:32 <manugupt1> We were all thinking along the same lines :)
09:48:36 <sj> manugupt1, we should ask him first :)
09:48:37 <rlihm> :-)
09:48:49 <yaloki> rlihm: what mockup? gotalink?
09:48:55 <rlihm> the display-box is currently 450px height
09:48:59 <manugupt1> yaloki, http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php
09:49:07 <rlihm> and 520px width
09:49:13 <sj> i think yaloki meant the mockup for slideshow
09:49:20 <sj> i am curious too
09:49:26 <sj> rlihm, thanks for the dimensions :)
09:49:27 <rlihm> yaloki: http://static.opensuse.org/themes/bento/extended.html
09:49:33 <rlihm> sj: welcome :-)
09:49:48 <yaloki> rlihm: nice :)
09:49:55 <manugupt1> rlihm, do you remember them
09:50:19 <manugupt1> the dimensions
09:50:20 <rlihm> manugupt1: what do i remember?
09:50:22 <rlihm> ah ...
09:50:31 <rlihm> I just took a look in the css
09:50:47 <gnokii> rlihm: u are old, u remember nothing :D
09:50:59 <manugupt1> Because the css is container_16 grid_9 right and they are all in percentage
09:51:08 <manugupt1> container_16 is 960px
09:51:39 <manugupt1> Or did I miss something rlihm
09:51:48 <rlihm> manugupt1: thats right
09:52:04 <rlihm> if you look with e.g. firebug at the element you get the css for it
09:52:25 <rlihm> manugupt1: it has a .grid_9
09:52:31 <rlihm> that are 520px :-)
09:53:07 <rlihm> but we can change it. It just fit to the image i had/have in my head
09:53:08 <rlihm> :-)
09:53:18 <manugupt1> Ok..:)
09:53:21 <sj> and i think we should go with that :)
09:53:24 <yaloki> you don't want to know about the pictures _I_ have in my head...
09:53:31 <rlihm> :-D
09:53:34 <sj> yaloki, nobody wants to know
09:53:38 <sj> hah :)
09:53:42 <sj> jk !
09:54:17 <yaloki> sj: it involves you, and a goat
09:54:18 <yaloki> :D
09:54:30 <yaloki> manugupt1: so what's the purpose of that meta-tag thingy?
09:54:34 <sj> wow ! . i am "so" impressed :)
09:54:42 <yaloki> manugupt1: wanna make a word cloud ?
09:54:50 <sj> wordle ?
09:54:52 <manugupt1> yaloki, to insert into the site <meta keywords> yes something like that
09:54:55 <yaloki> http://www.wordle.net/
09:55:11 <sj> yep
09:55:22 <sj> so manugupt1 are you taking care of SEO ?
09:55:37 <manugupt1> As <meta tags are missing at places > yaloki No.. but I am adding wherever I can
09:55:48 <gnokii> fuck virtualbox
09:55:59 <sj> ....?
09:56:07 <rlihm> gnokii: tssssss
09:56:11 <sj> it crashes at times
09:57:21 <sj> so lets move ahead , manugupt1 ? ;)
09:57:35 <manugupt1> Yes.. sir..
09:58:16 <manugupt1> One sec please
09:58:23 <sj> take your time :)
09:58:32 <sj> in meanwhile i wanna say something
09:58:42 <manugupt1> Yes... fire it
09:59:10 <sj> i have a feeling that suseROCKs wont show before the sunrise :)
09:59:27 <sj> okay, you can continue :). I was trying to ping him :)
09:59:57 <manugupt1> I am trying to create a woordle and save it to their public gallery
10:00:08 <manugupt1> but I got Java issues
10:00:10 <yaloki> manugupt1, sj: http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/2912150/openSUSE
10:00:39 <sj> looks sweet
10:00:43 <sj> manugupt1, get openjdk
10:00:54 <manugupt1> sj, have both iof them ;)
10:01:14 <sj> well! i am not sure then . shift to chrome :)
10:01:17 <yaloki> sj: what did you want to say?
10:01:35 <sj> yaloki,  oh nothing , just the suseROCKs thingee :)
10:01:44 <manugupt1> Lols.. I am on chrome
10:01:57 <manugupt1> sj, are we determined to pester suseROCKs
10:02:07 <sj> yaloki, the link you just gave for wordle. Is it a test ?
10:02:17 <yaloki> sj: no, it's there
10:02:27 <sj> manugupt1, no was just filling up the gap (when you needed sometime :)
10:02:30 <sj> okay !
10:02:39 <yaloki> sj: but I'm sure there must be something with jquery to do the same ^^
10:02:49 <sj> same here
10:02:59 <sj> i will see if i can find something
10:03:21 <yaloki> as much as I <3 java, a java applet isn't exactly the best thing to include on a page ^^
10:03:45 <yaloki> ah, ok, one can also get a static image
10:04:02 <yaloki> but it's tiny... ¬¬ http://www.wordle.net/thumb/wrdl/2912150/openSUSE
10:04:06 <sj> yaloki,  yep and like this - http://noupe.com/examples/tagcloud/tag-cloud.html
10:04:32 <yaloki> sure, there are tons of (much better than that) tag cloud scripts
10:04:46 <suseROCKs> ok I'm here... what's everyon dissing on me about  :-)
10:04:49 <sj> was an example :)
10:05:08 <sj> damn look whos here to spoil meeting " suseROCKs  "
10:05:12 <sj> :P
10:05:13 * sj runs
10:05:28 <yaloki> do we have a wiki page or piwatepad or something to keep track of this ?
10:05:31 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
10:05:46 <manugupt1> yaloki, we have
10:05:48 <sj> i am not sure , manugupt1 might be knowing
10:05:49 <suseROCKs> so what topic are we focusing on atm?
10:05:49 * yaloki proposes a new private joke: every time someone says pirate pad or pastes a pirate pad URL, everyone must say arrrrrrrrrrr
10:05:50 <manugupt1> at the top
10:06:01 <sj> suseROCKs, meta tags
10:06:04 <yaloki> manugupt1: ah, in topic, okay, purrrrfect
10:06:20 <sj> yaloki,  hah :)
10:06:21 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, did you get up
10:06:26 <suseROCKs> meta tags in relation to?
10:06:39 <yaloki> suseROCKs: just say pirate pad
10:06:44 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   I've been up,  but trying to get things ready before the workers come for remodeling today  :-(
10:06:50 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, SEO
10:07:19 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, :) I could not find your comments anywhere
10:07:22 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   ok  and has yaloki solved all our problems yet?
10:07:40 <manugupt1> yaloki, was a runner up sj won
10:08:01 * yaloki throws a bomb into the room... problem solved :D
10:08:07 * suseROCKs scrolls up to read how yaloki came in second.  This is a first!
10:08:20 <yaloki> suseROCKs: no, works with my gf too
10:08:31 <manugupt1> yaloki, there is a jquery plugin
10:08:46 <sj> manugupt1, are we using wordpress ?
10:08:53 <manugupt1> sj, where
10:08:55 <sj> i see wp-content in the source code ?
10:09:00 <sj> i am not sure
10:09:15 <sj> i meant , in which all places are we using *
10:09:16 * yaloki welcomes kkemenczy
10:09:45 <manugupt1> sj, we use wordpress at lizards, news afailk
10:09:51 <yaloki> yes
10:09:55 <yaloki> it's wordpress
10:10:00 <sj> okay !
10:10:03 <manugupt1> Ok.. what is wordpress
10:10:16 <sj> :)
10:10:19 <yaloki> buggy
10:10:21 <yaloki> evil
10:10:23 <yaloki> nightmare
10:10:25 <yaloki> :)
10:10:35 <manugupt1> I mean which subdomain are you talking about
10:11:09 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, where are your comments
10:11:49 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   in the piratepad?
10:11:50 <gnokii> and a new download plz, uurgh
10:12:06 <manugupt1> At this link http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia
10:12:07 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
10:12:14 <suseROCKs> just look at the information I added to the preparation section, manugupt1
10:12:19 <sj> yaloki,  :)
10:12:32 <yaloki> well it's only funny if at least 2-3 people do it
10:13:17 <suseROCKs> so are you still discussing metatags now?
10:13:29 <sj> now sure
10:13:35 <sj> so whats the conclusion
10:13:47 <sj> we go with jquery-dynacloud or wordle ?
10:13:56 <sj> now=not *
10:14:09 <manugupt1> sj, We do not go anywhere now ;)
10:14:17 <suseROCKs> so I'm curious,   I see everyone submitting their ideas for metatags...  what will be the strategy for selecting the ones that will boost traffic?
10:14:18 <manugupt1> But the words are there
10:14:51 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, sj seems to have drifted away...  also at this moment I wish to have some rather than having none
10:15:04 <manugupt1> the word list here is as follows
10:15:05 <manugupt1> openSUSE
10:15:06 <manugupt1> linux
10:15:06 <manugupt1> build service
10:15:06 <manugupt1> geeko
10:15:06 <manugupt1> openFATE
10:15:07 <manugupt1> SUSE
10:15:09 <manugupt1> edu-life
10:15:11 <manugupt1> gnome
10:15:15 <manugupt1> kde
10:15:17 <manugupt1> suse studio
10:15:19 <manugupt1> medical
10:15:21 <manugupt1> tumbleweed
10:15:23 <manugupt1> yast
10:15:25 <manugupt1> evergreen
10:15:27 <manugupt1> friends
10:15:29 <manugupt1> community
10:15:31 <manugupt1> OBS
10:15:33 <manugupt1> lxde
10:15:35 <manugupt1> xfce
10:15:38 <manugupt1> smeegol
10:15:39 <manugupt1> osc
10:15:41 <manugupt1> open source
10:15:42 <suseROCKs> are we looking at what other projects use as meta tags?
10:15:57 <manugupt1> What do you mean?
10:16:05 <manugupt1> I did not get you
10:16:06 <sj> suseROCKs, not yet
10:16:11 <suseROCKs> a lot of those words are very either specific to openSUSE or very generic
10:16:42 <manugupt1> So what do you suggest
10:16:56 <suseROCKs> so if we're thinking of something like where people are going to use a search engine to find a solution to a problem...   let's just throw out MySQL as an example....   what would have made them see openSUSE at the top of the index list?
10:17:34 <suseROCKs> in addition to the age-old content-needs-to-exist question  :-)
10:18:34 <manugupt1> Right.. so what do we do sir
10:19:04 <suseROCKs> we need to come up with a huge list of words,  and then narrow it down to 20
10:19:24 <sj> i have a list of tags , fedora is using
10:19:45 <suseROCKs> let's hear, sj
10:20:09 <sj> according to the results
10:20:13 <sj> "These are the keywords found on the web page. (Search engines are more likely to list this page as a good result for these keywords.)"
10:20:25 <sj> fedora - 49 - 5.79%
10:20:25 <sj> hat - 16 - 1.89%
10:20:25 <sj> pro - 12 - 1.42%
10:20:25 <sj> free - 12 - 1.42%
10:20:25 <sj> more - 12 - 1.42%
10:20:26 <sj> learn - 10 - 1.18%
10:20:28 <sj> community - 10 - 1.18%
10:20:30 <sj> red - 8 - 0.94%
10:20:32 <sj> software - 8 - 0.94%
10:20:34 <sj> get - 7 - 0.83%
10:20:36 <sj> feature - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:38 <sj> rom - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:40 <sj> project - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:42 <sj> design - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:44 <sj> download - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:48 <sj> end - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:50 <sj> help - 6 - 0.71%
10:20:52 <sj> freedom - 5 - 0.59%
10:20:54 <sj> linux - 5 - 0.59%
10:20:56 <sj> features - 5 - 0.59%
10:20:58 <sj> eric - 5 - 0.59%
10:21:00 <sj> inc - 5 - 0.59%
10:21:02 <sj> system - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:04 <sj> amateur - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:08 <sj> work - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:08 <sj> document - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:10 <sj> ever - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:12 <sj> wide - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:14 <sj> radio - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:18 <sj> friends - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:20 <sj> world - 4 - 0.47%
10:21:22 <sj> operating - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:24 <sj> share - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:26 <sj> benefit - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:28 <sj> people - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:30 <sj> source - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:32 <sj> documentation - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:33 <sj> new - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:35 <sj> best - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:37 <sj> been - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:39 <sj> open - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:41 <sj> full - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:43 <sj> worldwide - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:47 <sj> join - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:49 <sj> built - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:51 <sj> sponsor - 3 - 0.35%
10:21:53 <sj> see - 2 - 0.24%
10:21:55 <sj> north - 2 - 0.24%
10:21:57 <sj> power - 2 - 0.24%
10:21:58 <suseROCKs> wait
10:22:00 <suseROCKs> stop  :-D
10:22:01 <sj> install - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:03 <sj> printing - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:05 <sj> printer - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:07 <sj> driver - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:09 <sj> bit - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:11 <sj> correct - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:13 <sj> only - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:16 <manugupt1> I just generated 4000 words for openSUSE
10:22:17 <sj> tech - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:19 <sj> requirements - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:21 <sj> fight - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:23 <sj> content - 2 - 0.24%
10:22:24 <manugupt1> Does anyone need that too :)
10:22:25 <sj> list - 2 - 0.24%
10:26:41 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   what's the "rhel5" thing all about on your server?  :-)
10:27:05 <manugupt1> This is the total list I could see the ice cream too
10:28:06 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, now we have a list of words
10:28:23 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   ok so according to this,  png is the second most popular keyword?
10:28:37 <manugupt1> Yes..
10:29:37 <manugupt1> A better approximate would be the other csv
10:29:41 <suseROCKs> I think this list is misleading in some ways because it gathers from a variety of usages to our infrastructure
10:29:56 <suseROCKs> BUT...  it still helps us to be able to scan through and cull the ones we think could be relevant
10:30:40 <manugupt1> yes
10:31:02 <manugupt1> so should we start scanning them
10:31:25 <suseROCKs> also think about the kind of users we want to attract to openSUSE
10:31:42 <suseROCKs> what are they most likely to be looking for when they google
10:31:47 * manugupt1 wants to attract everyone
10:31:56 <suseROCKs> not realistic
10:32:21 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   for example, at openSUSE, we target the technical user
10:32:40 <suseROCKs> so...  what keywords fit into that kind of person?
10:32:42 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, yes.. specialy IT professional that just rings a bell for me
10:32:55 <suseROCKs> there ya go
10:33:22 <suseROCKs> Now you have a focus to help guide you through the sorting
10:34:01 <suseROCKs> you could also think about just setting up a few columns that describe types of users, and under each column put in the relevant keywords
10:34:20 <suseROCKs> then... see how they all mesh together.    Possibly you'd find a keyword that fits multiple columns
10:34:41 <suseROCKs> and that would be a clue (I think) that its a strong keyword
10:34:54 <yaloki> for developers...
10:35:01 <yaloki> when I think of a very, very common scenario
10:35:27 <yaloki> developer with windows background, developing in java/php/RoR/django/..., and deploying on linux
10:35:31 <suseROCKs> basements?  :-)
10:35:45 <yaloki> then openSUSE offers the same platform as the deployment platform
10:35:53 <yaloki> but with additional ease of use, both for the desktop (kde, gnome, ...)
10:36:02 <yaloki> and for the administration of the server aspects (yast)
10:36:21 <yaloki> where we're currently lacking, and which would also be a strong point, is packages for those developer tools and frameworks
10:36:47 <yaloki> (eclipse, netbeans, django, php frameworks, some java packages, ...)
10:37:09 <gnokii> yaloki: loves java
10:37:09 <yaloki> I can imagine that that edge might indeed be appealing to developers
10:37:26 <yaloki> gnokii: more than 50% of the applications developed on this planet are being done so in java
10:37:42 <suseROCKs> yaloki,   so you're suggesting find words that speak to that edge, right?
10:38:04 <yaloki> suseROCKs: I'm just saying that as a general "vector" of approach in terms of marketing
10:38:10 <suseROCKs> and the other 50% are done while *having* a cup of java  :-)
10:38:26 <yaloki> if we're still taking about tags/words then, yeah maybe, but it's difficult to catch in a couple of words
10:38:32 <suseROCKs> yaloki,   well I think you're giving some good insights into that.
10:38:56 <suseROCKs> absolutely.    Which is why I think building a big list of words and then narrowing down will help significantly
10:39:03 <yaloki> the key aspect here is that deployment is done on linux in >90% of cases
10:39:09 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   does all that make sense now?
10:39:47 <yaloki> and giving developers the opportunity of developing on the same or similar platform as the deployment platform is clearly a plus
10:42:18 <yaloki> like being able to install and configure apache easily from yast
10:43:46 <manugupt1> Ok...
10:44:55 <manugupt1> I get it somewhat
10:45:58 <sj> sorry guys ! I am gonna get some rest  now !
10:46:09 <manugupt1> good night sj
10:46:30 <sj> :) ! . should be awake soon . so morning :)
10:47:09 <suseROCKs> sj,  I'm glad you came around.  Hoping to see more of you soon
10:47:14 <jospoortvliet> gooooood morning!!!!
10:47:17 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: good night
10:47:19 <jospoortvliet> thanks :D
10:47:34 <jospoortvliet> srry for being late
10:47:36 <manugupt1> Bye.. jospoortvliet :)
10:47:37 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,  tell me where you see the breakdown in confusion
10:47:42 <jospoortvliet> had to catch up to some sleep
10:47:48 <suseROCKs> and heeeeeeeeeere's jospoortvliet!
10:47:48 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#
10:48:18 <manugupt1> Thats how I see the discussion
10:48:28 <izabelvalverde> Hello guys
10:48:29 <manugupt1> And heres izabelvalverde too
10:48:39 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   I think that's a good start
10:48:55 <suseROCKs> ok, this is going to cause suspicion with jospoortvliet  AND izabelvalverde waking up at the same time here  :-)
10:48:56 <izabelvalverde> hi... better later than never
10:49:00 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: morning
10:49:01 <jospoortvliet> hehe
10:49:13 <izabelvalverde> morning
10:49:19 <suseROCKs> this is how rumors get started  :-D
10:49:25 <yaloki> :)
10:49:38 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: no it makes sense, us waking up at same time, we're both in brazilian time zone - her literally, me only psychologically :D
10:49:39 <izabelvalverde> :D
10:49:40 <suseROCKs> Good Morning Ms. izabelvalverde
10:49:59 <izabelvalverde> Good morning Mr. suseROCKs
10:50:04 <jospoortvliet> lol
10:50:14 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   I know the feeling.  I haven't shaken off the Brasilian timezone yet either, and my wallet is still filled with Reais
10:50:37 <izabelvalverde> send to me :-D
10:51:02 * yaloki sends some curry to suseROCKs
10:51:06 <yaloki> suseROCKs: for the rice
10:51:09 <suseROCKs> izabelvalverde,   It's only about $R200.  What can you possibly do with that?  :-D
10:51:12 <suseROCKs> yaloki,    arroz
10:51:55 <izabelvalverde> suseROCKs I can spend in caipirinhas next week :-D
10:52:12 <suseROCKs> no  need.   Carlos makes pretty good ones
10:52:39 <suseROCKs> He won't tell me the secret ingredient though.  F*da-se!
10:52:39 <yaloki> please show some respect, it's full of snow and -10 over here :P
10:52:46 <izabelvalverde> :-D
10:52:58 <suseROCKs> -2C here and we had a pretty decent snow dump here as well.
10:53:03 <yaloki> suseROCKs: you don't want to know... :)
10:53:03 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: u drink caipi? igitt
10:53:06 <manugupt1> I am enjoying 20 C in India :D
10:53:06 <izabelvalverde> yaloki I would exchange with you
10:53:20 <manugupt1> I would not iza
10:53:37 <izabelvalverde> I am not enjoying 35 C :(
10:53:53 * yaloki pulls the waiter and orders a mojito
10:54:23 <yaloki> actually a grog or an irish coffee would be better suited
10:54:34 <yaloki> hmm... irish coffee...
10:55:14 <yaloki> ok, back to marketing
10:55:15 <izabelvalverde> hi gnokii not my favorite but if Carlos can do I can drink :-D
10:55:18 <yaloki> so, 11.4 or 12.0 ? :D
10:56:01 <manugupt1> yaloki, lols..
10:56:17 * gnokii brings izabelvalverde a mojito
10:56:45 <manugupt1> Good morning helen_au :)
10:56:50 <gnokii> huhu helen_au
10:57:07 <helen_au> goodevening manugupt1 , gnokii
10:57:10 <helen_au> hi all
10:57:16 <yaloki> helen_au: hi there
10:57:16 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, you there :)
10:57:24 <manugupt1> Ok.. its evening for you too :)
10:57:36 <manugupt1> Same here in India what time zone are you in +5:30
10:57:41 <gnokii> helen_au: left u some sentence on piratepad
10:57:53 <helen_au> yes I'm just popping in briefly. I'm GMT +10
10:58:15 <helen_au> cool thanks gnokii
10:58:27 <manugupt1> ok..
10:58:31 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
10:58:51 <manugupt1> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
10:59:01 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, are you there
10:59:02 <yaloki> :D
10:59:24 <helen_au> gnokii, ok sure I see re community
10:59:57 <helen_au> hey I don't want to suggest putting contstraints on design ideas, I know sometimes with creativity ideas just flow
11:00:09 <helen_au> but it would be helpful to maybe organize ideas a little bit
11:00:20 <helen_au> that's a couple of things I've tried to write with wrong idea based on image
11:00:25 <gnokii> helen_au: what u mean with that?
11:00:25 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   don't bother jospoortvliet just yet.  he just woke up.  You know us men have to have a long morning pee before we can do anything   :-)
11:00:41 <yaloki> manugupt1: he's in the shower
11:00:44 <helen_au> I would say make a list of words/concepts first, but i know often we don't like to work that way
11:00:47 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: I am catching up to thread
11:00:49 <jospoortvliet> sorry
11:00:53 <jospoortvliet> one more minute :D
11:01:07 * manugupt1 thinks yaloki and suseROCKs are watching jos nikked
11:01:15 <helen_au> gnokii, you see what I mean - just to make sure I have right idea when I start writing?
11:01:29 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: and you know I don't shower
11:01:29 <suseROCKs> helen_au,   Actually, manugupt1 is working on a grand master list of keywords for meta tags.  It might end up being helpful for what you're working on too
11:01:32 <helen_au> so once you have your idea and image, make a clear note about it?
11:01:35 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I'm clean by myself
11:01:43 <jospoortvliet> good evening helen_au
11:01:45 <jospoortvliet> :D
11:01:46 <helen_au> suseROCKs, that sounds like a great idea
11:01:48 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,  I'm not into watching men nekkid.  But damn, that jospoortvliet is CUUUUUUUUTE!
11:01:50 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, hi!
11:02:04 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: so wazzup!
11:02:07 <helen_au> bwahaha
11:02:18 <jospoortvliet> I know some words for the list of keywords if you want them :D
11:02:31 <manugupt1> helen_au, if you need that list its http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia
11:02:31 <helen_au> not that sort of words
11:02:34 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: had jospoortvliet and suseROCKs same room in brazil?
11:02:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, I have a lot of keywords ;)
11:02:50 <manugupt1> still jospoortvliet fire out
11:02:51 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: no I shared with someone else :
11:02:54 <jospoortvliet> duh
11:03:18 <izabelvalverde> :-D gnokii answered already
11:03:20 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: power, flexibility, configurability, openness, freedom, productivity
11:03:24 <jospoortvliet> things based on our strategy
11:03:25 <jospoortvliet> ...
11:03:56 <helen_au> that's a really useful idea
11:04:04 <manugupt1> add security
11:04:14 <helen_au> stability
11:05:07 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: why then he think u are cute, I mean helen_au or izabelvalverde are cute, but u are a man u cant be cute
11:05:14 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup good
11:05:15 <helen_au> with the posters, the issue for me was that I thought they were about one thing (security, or language) when they were about another (openness, community contact)
11:05:23 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I keep saying that...
11:05:27 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
11:05:31 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet is a special case.   He's an exception to the rule  :-D
11:05:31 <helen_au> gnokii, men can too be cute.
11:05:40 <helen_au> dunno about that face fuzz though.
11:05:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, be careful earlier it was michl
11:05:47 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: and that's what my gf keeps saying
11:05:51 <jospoortvliet> we'll never agree on that one
11:05:55 <helen_au> lol
11:05:57 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: LOL
11:06:05 <helen_au> my husband has a moustache, I've forbidden him to shave it
11:06:21 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: lol I know that one, my gf doesn't want me to shave either...
11:06:28 <jospoortvliet> in my face, that is
11:06:32 <jospoortvliet> *too much info*
11:06:33 <yaloki> :)
11:06:38 <yaloki> heheheh
11:06:41 <helen_au> I can't wait till he's out of the army, grows a full beard.
11:06:46 <helen_au> super handsome
11:06:51 <helen_au> anyway that's enough of that...
11:07:06 <helen_au> I don't have a stack of time thisevening so is there any key points I should be looking at right now?
11:07:15 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: he, funny how girls think different about that - my ex wanted me to shave daily...
11:07:25 <gnokii> helen_au: full beard isnt forbidden
11:07:32 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, well you just have to keep your gal happy :)
11:07:36 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: the writing stuff in the etherpad is probably right up your alley :D
11:07:42 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: hehe indeed
11:08:01 <suseROCKs> I have a beard!    I'm just sayin'
11:08:02 <helen_au> gnokii, in Australian army it is, unless you are a Pioneer Sergeant and there's only one of them, or on special mission
11:08:17 <gnokii> aah old fashioned
11:08:25 <helen_au> there's an old saying "a kiss without a moustache is like food without salt"
11:08:37 <izabelvalverde> :-D
11:08:37 <jospoortvliet> btw loving http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j95HbhTl60k
11:08:53 * gnokii <--- and many other had full beard in afghanistan, the mudjaheddin trust man with beard more
11:09:13 <helen_au> yes the guys over there grow beards.
11:09:33 <helen_au> in Sudan he grew handlebar moustache since they didn't know Australian dress code (short)
11:09:55 <jospoortvliet> darn that youtube crashes firefox for me sorry if it does for anyone else, not my intention :D
11:10:48 <gnokii> its not firefox its KDE what crashes
11:11:04 <helen_au> one thing I want to mention - all the funny spelling of acronyms - is a PITA
11:11:28 <helen_au> Education LIFE, particularly.
11:11:31 <izabelvalverde> btw yesterday I tried to run in KDE and got totally lost
11:11:37 <helen_au> YAST is probably too late to change....
11:12:00 * helen_au waves at izabel
11:12:07 <helen_au> run in KDE?
11:12:28 <suseROCKs> you can't run in KDE.  You have to wear a lot of protective clothing and that makes it too hard to run
11:12:30 * suseROCKs ducks
11:12:36 <izabelvalverde> hi helen_au
11:12:57 <izabelvalverde> sorry... tried to use KDE in my desktop
11:13:05 <helen_au> lolz @ suseROCKs  oh the new KDE is so pretty
11:13:22 <izabelvalverde> I was reinstall a machine but I gave up and turned back to GNOME :-D
11:13:30 <helen_au> Is it supposed to not have a toolbar? I discovered adding a launcher widget
11:13:46 <manugupt1> KDE sucks for Intel
11:13:46 <helen_au> did you find the widgets?
11:13:58 <manugupt1> You need to turn of your compositing and stuff
11:14:15 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: well actually works fine here on my GMA950... better WITH compositing
11:14:18 <helen_au> hmm. Pretty sure I was running defaults, will have to have a look.
11:14:24 <jospoortvliet> but they had a big issue in the kernel released with 11.3
11:14:26 <yaloki> manugupt1: hah, just wait for unity ;)
11:14:30 <helen_au> I couldn't get Catalyst to play with it
11:14:30 <jospoortvliet> so you need a newer kernel and xorg for it to work
11:14:34 <jospoortvliet> stupid intel drivers...
11:14:57 <suseROCKs> anyway, manugupt1    back to your spreadsheet.   You've got a good start on the keywords...
11:15:10 <manugupt1> Yes.. sir
11:15:10 <gnokii> I tried KDE4 once, there was a thing "add activity" but no activity was showed after I clicked
11:15:12 <suseROCKs> Now you might want to think of keywords that describe those keywords too and add to the list.
11:15:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   for example, you have banshee listed there.   A keyword for that obviously is "music"
11:16:02 <izabelvalverde> jospoortvliet I tried for Sandro, Cami, Tomaz and you :-)
11:16:49 <helen_au> so you're looking at SEO keywords?
11:16:59 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: btw, did I ever tell you how happy I am that you joined the project ?
11:17:25 <suseROCKs> helen_au,   yup
11:17:28 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: no, not realy, why, you were looking for someone dumb enough to control ;-)
11:17:35 <yaloki> I didn't?
11:17:36 <yaloki> good
11:17:37 <yaloki> hahahahaah
11:17:56 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: sweet ;-)_
11:18:04 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: amazing I didn't. well, then: I'm very happy that you've joined the project
11:18:28 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: but don't bother, just Have Fun (TM) for openSUSE and KDE vs GNOME vs LXDE vs MeeGo vs XFCE vs Unity vs whatever doesn't matter
11:18:43 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: well you make me blush, thank you...
11:18:49 <yaloki> because window maker is the only true one
11:19:02 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: note that as a dutch person I can only handle about 2 compliments a day so thread careful from here on
11:19:19 <yaloki> hm
11:19:42 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: you can imagine that, obviously, now I _totally_ want to know what happens once it overflows :D
11:19:52 <helen_au> is KDE our current default?
11:20:09 <gnokii> no
11:20:12 <izabelvalverde> jospoortvliet wasn't so fun yesterday when my boss called a report later after that :-D
11:20:24 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, have a look again
11:20:37 <manugupt1> helen_au, we dont have a default
11:20:49 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   nice!
11:20:54 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: so u get many problems then with UCA because mandriva has only KDE
11:20:58 <helen_au> Oh ok. (I have to learn to pay attention when I run an install)
11:21:06 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   actually yes we do.  KDE is the default for openSUSE since 11.2
11:21:26 <izabelvalverde> gnokii mandriva will come only on the next order
11:21:31 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, we are trying to ward that off KDE is selected because we have to select one
11:21:36 <izabelvalverde> now is metasys :D
11:21:42 <manugupt1> That my opinion
11:21:43 <helen_au> Reason being is every time I run a distro, every time there's a new release, I agonize about desktops. I think for a lot of people it's actually quite painful to have to choose!
11:21:58 <helen_au> They both have really nice things (as does LXDE/XFCE for lightweights)
11:22:09 <yaloki> helen_au: yeah, we had that discussion very often
11:22:15 <helen_au> so CHOICE while nice, is sometimes a negative! You have to un-choose things....
11:22:20 <yaloki> helen_au: also, it is not possible to give enough information for people to make an educated guess
11:22:32 <yaloki> helen_au: but our focus is on people who are willing to learn, so...
11:22:34 <helen_au> I wondered cos often it's a 'VERSUS' discussion, which is better...
11:22:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, so unchoose because its you who are righting
11:22:40 <helen_au> but I like them both and hate choosing
11:22:45 <yaloki> choice is more important than simplicity
11:22:50 <helen_au> I agree
11:22:53 <helen_au> choice is important
11:23:00 <manugupt1> yaloki, for you and us :) but for openSUSE guys
11:23:06 <helen_au> but I think it would be useful to find clearer distinctions
11:23:07 <manugupt1> Sorry for ubuntu guys
11:23:13 <yaloki> manugupt1: check the strategy :)
11:23:21 <helen_au> I've yet to see a "gnome vs kde" article that really helps me make a choice
11:23:24 <suseROCKs> helen_au,   that was the argument made in favor of having an actual default (which is now KDE) vs. the old days when we didn't have a default.  However....
11:23:46 <gnokii> we havent a default
11:23:52 <suseROCKs> in our market research for the strategy discussion what we found out is that most of the openSUSE users are power/technical users, and thus are highly capable of making their own choices.
11:23:53 <helen_au> of course they are always changing now too... can't wait to see new Gnome too....
11:24:12 <helen_au> suseROCKs, ok that's useful to know.
11:24:19 <manugupt1> Ok.. suseROCKs how do we proceed
11:24:37 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   On the spreadsheet you mean?
11:24:44 <manugupt1> yes..
11:25:09 <suseROCKs> well you said you found 4000 words from the webmaster csv.   Have you gone through them to see what's relevant in each category?
11:25:32 <suseROCKs> the idea is to build a big list in each column and then be able to narrow them down to most fitting.
11:25:58 <suseROCKs> Then, look at common words that exist in each category, which in my opinion defines the strong keyword/meta tag you'd want to use.
11:26:31 <suseROCKs> What do you think?
11:26:58 <manugupt1> Yes I went through them but at the end of the day I find them most of them irrelevant or offtopic
11:27:07 <suseROCKs> ok
11:27:18 <helen_au> example?
11:27:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, like ice cream
11:27:56 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   ok so discuss openly with the rest of the team here and see what people think
11:28:15 <jospoortvliet> darn you lot talk hard and fast
11:28:25 <suseROCKs> also, you may want to put a query out there in the wild (ML, twitter, etc.) with  "What word do you think best describes openSUSE" or something
11:28:28 <jospoortvliet> I guess I can forget catching up to mail in between the discussions huh?
11:28:38 <jospoortvliet> so since I was here last:
11:28:42 * yaloki doesn't think it's fast
11:28:44 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   mail is overrated  :-)
11:28:45 <jospoortvliet> @yaloki I just go sit in a corner, cry
11:28:55 <helen_au> oh yeah I nearly had a fit when I read 'Icecream' - what an awkward name for software.
11:29:00 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: you're just way too nice for this world
11:29:05 <jospoortvliet> @ helen_au:  yes but that's just to help make choices for newbies
11:29:23 <manugupt1> Ok.. since everyone is here I will brief it fast
11:29:26 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: all desktops are created equal for RMS ;-)
11:29:33 <suseROCKs> everybody shut up for 5 mins to let jos finish scrolling up
11:29:37 <helen_au> no the utlity icecream
11:30:03 <manugupt1> Ok..  I will have ice cream
11:30:11 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: no KDE is evil for him
11:30:20 <helen_au> now I"m looking around to see whose baby Icecream is.....
11:30:22 * suseROCKs wonders if jospoortvliet's lips move when he reads
11:30:38 <yaloki> helen_au: hmm... coolo, methinks
11:31:07 <helen_au> yaloki, ok well don't tell him I laughed at his naming choice :)
11:31:17 <yaloki> helen_au: or, at least, coolo would definitely be able to tell you whose baby it is :)
11:31:37 <yaloki> helen_au: I think you only have two options when you need to pick a name for a software project
11:31:52 <jospoortvliet> meanwhile I wonder if rlihm has already started working on the twitter/identica/blogger Bento/SUSE themes ;-)
11:31:57 <suseROCKs> why do I hear a country-western song coming up now?
11:32:08 <yaloki> helen_au: make up an useful but cryptic acronym (e.g. gcc), or pick some funky/funny name that is totally unrelated (icecream) ;D
11:32:25 <yaloki> suseROCKs: because you're in bloody US of A
11:32:25 <yaloki> :D
11:33:25 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: ok, caught up? may we resume? ;)
11:33:51 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: now i have to catch up to all the bullshit you were talking while I was catching up
11:34:01 * jospoortvliet wonders how it's possible to keep up with suseROCKs and yaloki
11:34:09 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: bullshit perpetuum
11:34:23 <izabelvalverde> :-D
11:34:28 <rlihm> jospoortvliet: nope ... just played around with tumblr
11:34:31 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   You do not have to catch up.  You're doing just fine sitting there looking pretty
11:34:48 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: give us your best smile
11:34:53 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: jeeez dude get off that... Sure I might be pretty but that's something only girls (one specific one) get to say...
11:34:56 <izabelvalverde> kids around :D
11:34:58 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   show us some leg!
11:35:00 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: hehe
11:35:10 * jospoortvliet hides in a corner
11:35:52 <yaloki> ok, weren't we about to do something useful?
11:36:09 <suseROCKs> yaloki,   we got jospoortvliet to go sit in a corner.  i think we did somehting useful
11:36:13 <gnokii> yaloki: u are rude
11:36:13 * suseROCKs rimshots!
11:36:24 <yaloki> suseROCKs: we just need to find someone to put into the blue corner now
11:36:40 <yaloki> fayah fayah!
11:37:17 <suseROCKs> ok so usefully speaking... we were on manugupt1's subject of keywords.      jospoortvliet now taht you've caught up...  any suggestions, criticisms, whatnot?
11:37:25 <gnokii> I saw it yaloki cried allah allah
11:37:49 <yaloki> ♫ np: David Bowie - China Girl
11:38:28 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: well I like the list, it's practical. But it should have a few more items from the strategy - like the ones I suggested, helen added one or two too
11:39:03 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0
11:39:03 <jospoortvliet> rlihm: tumblr huh, any fun ;-)
11:39:17 <manugupt1> rlihm, tumblr what are you doing with that
11:39:28 <yaloki> manugupt1: (don't ask!)
11:39:41 * gnokii wondering that there so many names for cotweet, did they really log in since they get an account?
11:39:47 <rlihm> yaloki: so you use tumblr as well ;-)
11:39:54 <yaloki> rlihm: no
11:40:02 <yaloki> rlihm: I think I just confused it with chat roulette
11:40:03 <yaloki> heheheh
11:40:25 <rlihm> yaloki: chat roulette is creasy!
11:40:32 <suseROCKs> "chat roulette"...  what an appropos word
11:40:37 <suseROCKs> or phrase
11:40:52 <helen_au> just one thought re keywords - differentiating between SEO keywords and marketing keywords
11:41:09 <helen_au> eg. 'stability' might be something we want to promote
11:41:15 <yaloki> I don't quite understand the spatial organization of the spreadsheet.. uhm...
11:41:19 <rlihm> manugupt1: I read the docu and play around with it from time to time => http://rlihm.tumblr.com/
11:41:20 <helen_au> but for SEO might be irrelevant
11:41:32 <rlihm> manugupt1: in the last days
11:41:33 <helen_au> SEO is all about what people are actually searching for
11:41:50 <helen_au> when I'm SEOing an article I use google adwords, and brainstorm a bunch of phrases related to the topic
11:41:57 <helen_au> and see what it says are most popular
11:42:16 <suseROCKs> helen_au,    exactly.  Which is why we want to get as big a list as possible and then cull down to words that are relevant to us and relevant to a searcher
11:43:08 <suseROCKs> ok I need to go for a while.  I'll catch up with you all later
11:43:38 <helen_au> personally I'd be keen to have a big list of connected keywords
11:43:49 <yaloki> maybe a mind map would be better suited
11:44:03 <helen_au> you don't want to be reusing the same handful of keywords all the time, or you'll lose the long tail
11:44:14 <helen_au> it's just a starting point, something to jump off with
11:44:30 <manugupta> Ok.. helen_au we have the big list of words
11:44:51 <helen_au> two minutes on Adwords and you know whether people are searching for Kiwi or disk imaging or make custom boot disk.
11:45:15 <manugupta> helen_au, did you have a look at cvs
11:45:22 <yaloki> mmmmmh adwords....
11:45:33 <manugupta> the two of them they are from google web master accounts
11:45:34 <yaloki> that's tricky
11:45:56 <helen_au> what's from web master accounts?
11:46:18 <manugupta> The two csv in the piratepad
11:46:19 <helen_au> I don't like the new adwords format as much as the old one, but it's a terrific tool.
11:46:46 <javier_> manugupta: I would use another colour for the right square
11:46:59 <helen_au> I've got the spreadsheet https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0
11:47:50 <helen_au> oh found opensuse dec ones
11:47:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://suseware.com/dec/
11:48:21 <manugupt1> So we have a list we need to sort it down
11:50:13 <helen_au> ok so one is a list of all the words that show up on openSUSE pages?
11:50:30 <helen_au> and the other is a list of how many searches there are for certain words on opensuse pages?
11:51:01 <manugupt1> Yes..
11:51:35 <manugupt1> I will be back in a while guys
11:52:13 <helen_au> well I don't see a -lot- of point in looking at the word frequency on existing pages. That just tells us what's already there.
11:52:44 <helen_au> what people are searching for is interesting. Why did (suseROCKs??) suggest ice cream was irrelevant?
11:53:35 <helen_au> the other thing is, this is what people are searching for ONCE they are on openSUSE, or that bring them to opensuse. Also we need to know what they are searching for in google that ISN'T bringing them to us but should be.
11:55:24 <manugupt1> helen_au, it was me not suseROCKs :)
11:56:13 <helen_au> manugupt1,so why not include ice cream?
11:57:11 <helen_au> in a sense it doesn't matter because google (I THINK) should ignore the space and pick up opensuse icecream anyway
11:57:49 <manugupt1> helen_au, ok as I see it SEO is for boosting traffics on search engines.. while people maybe looking for ice cream  but that does not provide an overall image of openSUSE project in its meta tags not because the users search it more
11:58:13 <manugupt1> So I prefer OBS, KIWI and stuff more than ice cream
11:58:25 <manugupt1> Thats my viewpoint
11:58:32 <manugupt1> Now what do you say
11:58:36 <helen_au> sure, but there will be plenty of pages optimised for obs, kiwi etc.
11:58:39 <jospoortvliet> kiwi's are more healthy than ice cream
11:58:50 <jospoortvliet> (provided kiwi means the same in english as it means in dutch)
11:59:03 <jospoortvliet> (fruit, hairy brown fruit to be exact)
11:59:05 <yaloki> icecream is a very useful barely known project, but it's less "important" than OBS, for sure
11:59:14 <helen_au> the odd page with small keywords needs to be included
11:59:25 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: when u see jospoortvliet eating ice cream in brazil, take it from him and give him a vitamin pill
11:59:33 <helen_au> so long as you have a healthy hub of content for your key keywords
11:59:54 <manugupt1> helen_au, the problem is our wiki has not been optimised for meta tags maybe soon in the future
11:59:56 <helen_au> there's plenty of room for news articles, blog entries or wiki pages to include a liberal dose of smaller keywords
12:00:13 <helen_au> SEO happens in body text as well as meta tags
12:00:32 <helen_au> also image tags
12:00:34 <manugupt1> Also I think our rss feeds needs to be submitted to various tech forums
12:01:16 <manugupt1> aYes.. helen_au agreed but we can try and help where we can otherwise lets do something else like Sneek Peak of openSUSE that is more important
12:01:27 <manugupt1> For the media
12:02:26 <manugupt1> What do you say mam
12:02:56 <helen_au> sure, I thought SEO was the topic of the moment ... can happily move on
12:03:13 <helen_au> (it's a pet topic of mine as I write one of the top 100 websites of About.com...)
12:03:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, :) Please help me out later then
12:03:49 <helen_au> sure
12:05:11 <manugupt1> Or better if there is an rss feed for your profile point me there
12:06:24 <helen_au> you mean this one? http://en.opensuse.org/User:Helen-au
12:07:40 <manugupt1> helen_au, no the about.com one
12:09:51 <helen_au> back....
12:10:00 <manugupt1> helen_au, no the about.com one with all your SEO feeds ;)
12:10:07 <manugupt1> I can read it when I go to sleep
12:11:04 <helen_au> no I get funky graphical charts provided by our tech team
12:11:08 <helen_au> it's in house I can't show you
12:11:28 <manugupt1> Ok..
12:11:36 <helen_au> they have stats down to a fine art
12:11:45 <helen_au> but really applying it to pages isn't rocket science
12:12:07 <helen_au> you brainstorm your keywords, try to mesh what people are searching for with the topic you're writing on
12:12:21 <manugupt1> helen_au, applying isnt brainstormind is  So we start with our sneak peeks now... as you will be leaving now
12:12:21 <helen_au> and use the text in the pages.
12:12:36 <manugupt1> exactly
12:12:42 <helen_au> sorry didn't mean to hijack...
12:12:58 <helen_au> (the other big thing: quality content, lots of it...)_
12:13:31 <helen_au> I can leave if you like.
12:13:36 <manugupt1> No you are not I just want to finish one http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/Sneek-Peak We can start the artcle here
12:13:44 <manugupt1> I never meant that
12:14:02 <manugupt1> I meant it will get night and you will have to go to bed :)
12:14:14 <helen_au> true
12:14:22 <helen_au> soon
12:14:37 <manugupt1> and helen_au while I agree with all your points we do not have enough man power
12:14:44 <manugupt1> I am sorry you mistook in a different way
12:14:50 <helen_au> not a problem
12:14:57 <manugupt1> Here are the list of features http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
12:15:24 <helen_au> re manpower - really it's no extra. My point is, you can run around in circles making lists, or you can do two minutes keyword research as you write and apply it to your article, job done.
12:15:28 <helen_au> it really is that easy.
12:15:39 <helen_au> ok sneak peak
12:15:46 <helen_au> do we have a list of release notes or something?
12:15:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, I am going to apply the second option now
12:16:00 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
12:16:06 <manugupt1> release notes are not ready yet
12:21:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, is etherpad creating problems for you
12:21:53 <helen_au> no it did say something abou tmissing plugins
12:22:05 <helen_au> I just ignored, it's working I think?
12:22:06 <manugupt1> Java
12:22:10 <helen_au> ah.
12:22:11 <manugupt1> yes its working
12:22:51 <helen_au> openSUSE 64bit LXDE.... I probably need to spend a few mins getting pugins etc.
12:25:57 <helen_au> is there a list of 11.4 planned features? the roadmap is a timeline thing.
12:26:11 <yaloki> helen_au: most probably not
12:26:20 <yaloki> helen_au: because we can't get feedback from the "developers"
12:26:33 <helen_au> you're a developer. :)
12:26:45 <helen_au> oh you mean upstream?
12:26:48 <yaloki> not much at opensuse
12:26:50 <helen_au> like will their projects be ready?
12:26:59 <yaloki> not necessarily upstream
12:27:15 <yaloki> "developers" (well, not really) in the sense of: maintainers of factory
12:27:19 <yaloki> coolo, mostly
12:27:31 <yaloki> as he should know what goes into factory and, hence, 11.4
12:28:14 <helen_au> just need some rough ideas, we can't make it up. Well we could.....
12:28:42 <yaloki> systemd I guess, although AFAIK it'll only be a preview
12:28:59 <helen_au> still preview?
12:29:13 <yaloki> think so
12:29:15 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 you can have an idea here
12:29:18 <yaloki> it's a major change that can break everything
12:29:38 <helen_au> oh righto
12:29:39 <yaloki> and I don't think systemd is quite ready for production yet
12:30:35 <helen_au> ah. pity looks cool.
12:30:58 <yaloki> it does
12:31:20 <yaloki> apart from that, I don't think there are any revolutionary changes
12:32:46 <helen_au> oh right that was the document we started on the other day.
12:32:59 <helen_au> I started a bit of a ramble on wireshark lol....
12:33:32 <yaloki> how so?
12:34:16 <helen_au> sorry the etherpad above
12:34:27 <helen_au> separate train of thought.
12:34:39 <helen_au> http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
12:34:59 <helen_au> nothing revolutionary true but some nice things
12:35:08 <manugupt1> Did anyone call me
12:38:24 <helen_au> tumbleweed is still pretty experimental?
12:38:39 <yaloki> helen_au: we haven't really started yet :)
12:38:40 <helen_au> from message on mailserv today sounds like one maintainer.
12:38:51 <helen_au> likely to be functional by march?
12:39:08 <helen_au> we're talking about it like it's standard issue.
12:39:13 <yaloki> it'll pretty much start as a fork of 11.4, as far as I know
12:39:30 <helen_au> mentioned testbed 11.2 i think
12:39:35 <yaloki> will need some time to put things into place, but that has started
12:39:42 <yaloki> ah, haven't read that one yet
12:39:43 <helen_au> kk
12:40:03 <helen_au> it was just a small aside on list as I was shouting out for help with poster text, Tumbleweed getting amention.
12:40:05 <yaloki> with GKH pushing, no question it'll happen though
12:40:09 <helen_au> cool.
12:40:23 <yaloki> I think we can concentrate on tumbleweed once it has really lifted off
12:40:24 <helen_au> ok well we'll assume so, can always delete the text last minut e :)
12:41:53 <gnokii> helen_au: tumbleweed happens GKH stand behind, evergreen I am not so sure we had this discussion twice but noone step forward
12:42:31 <helen_au> yes I found it hard to dig up anything solid on Evergreen.
12:42:50 <yaloki> helen_au: that's because there isn't anything solid yet
12:42:58 <helen_au> lol
12:42:59 <gnokii> helen_au: as I said make evergreen as the last one, concentrate on the others
12:43:04 <helen_au> yep
12:43:07 <yaloki> it's a lot more difficult and... "political" to set up as compared to tumbleweed
12:43:26 <yaloki> actually, I don't think anything should be mentioned about evergreen at all
12:43:29 <helen_au> well since the poster image was there, I wanted to 'finish the job' and not leave it hanging
12:43:36 <yaloki> until we know how we'll do it
12:43:36 <helen_au> yeah
12:43:41 <helen_au> that might be wise.
12:43:47 <helen_au> gnokii, maybe just file that one for later?
12:43:54 <helen_au> even tumbleweed too
12:44:07 <yaloki> evergreen definitely later
12:44:11 <helen_au> though if they do work out last minute, the're printing etc...
12:44:18 <yaloki> it's also a highly political thing with novell
12:44:24 <helen_au> so in terms of preparing materials...
12:44:33 <yaloki> putting the word out too early or in the wrong way may cause an incident
12:45:15 <helen_au> ok then might be safest to leave totally alone.
12:45:20 <yaloki> yes, please
12:45:20 <helen_au> stupide politice
12:45:22 <helen_au> politics
12:45:33 <lupinstein> good morning all
12:45:38 <helen_au> hey pup
12:45:41 <lupinstein> sorry over slept.
12:45:52 <yaloki> doesn't sound like something to be sorry for :D
12:46:38 <lupinstein> I didn't got to be until 2:3am here.
12:46:48 <lupinstein> thanks yaloki
12:47:27 <gnokii> helen_au: what u mean with one file?
12:47:38 <yaloki> hm, sleep, sounds like I want some of that too
12:47:48 <helen_au> "on file" meaning, save them for later
12:48:01 <helen_au> tumbleweed and evergreen
12:48:04 <yaloki> put it on the stack :)
12:48:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: YOU!
12:48:45 <helen_au> I deleted the notes on the poster
12:48:50 <jospoortvliet> writing master
12:48:50 <helen_au> ME?
12:48:54 <jospoortvliet> yes you ;-)
12:48:55 <helen_au> bwahaha
12:49:03 <jospoortvliet> you're on the poster stuff I see?
12:49:05 <jospoortvliet> that's good
12:49:06 <helen_au> let's hope Linux Format think so
12:49:08 <helen_au> yep
12:49:09 <jospoortvliet> haha
12:49:11 <jospoortvliet> of course
12:49:16 <manugupt1> Look helen_au I said you are the master :)
12:49:24 <jospoortvliet> I could also use you in the feature guide/release announcement
12:49:27 <helen_au> I sent a proposal for the community article to them yesterday..
12:49:31 <jospoortvliet> http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
12:49:34 <gnokii> helen_au: yaloki about the politic, its always the same there are ppl the want an openSLES and that definitly not happen but against an evergreen version what means a longer supported opensuse version there isnt novell against
12:49:37 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: points for that
12:49:39 <jospoortvliet> cool
12:49:42 <jospoortvliet> very cool
12:49:47 <yaloki> gnokii: right
12:49:49 <helen_au> well I had a peek there you seem to be making good progress
12:49:58 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: he thanks
12:50:01 <helen_au> I figure I'll have a look with coffee in the morning
12:50:17 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok, sounds good, I'll still be here when you wake up I recon... hehe
12:50:41 <gnokii> yaloki: helen_au but how I see this, the persons how want that are not the persons they do the work, but wolifR made the right step forward
12:50:44 * yaloki goes to grab some sleep before picking up his daughter at school and going to the doc
12:51:05 <helen_au> yaloki, sleep well!
12:51:08 <yaloki> cu l8r geeks and geekettes
12:51:28 <helen_au> gnokii, sure I see your point there, but I think to be wise, not upset anyone right now, we just put those two "on the back burner"
12:51:33 <gnokii> helen_au: he have some hrs to work to can go sleep :D
12:51:45 <lupinstein> yaloki cya
12:51:47 <helen_au> PLENTY of other work to do right now, and easy  to do something when they are official.
12:52:08 <helen_au> it's hard enough researching documented projects without plucking stuff out of thin air.
12:52:08 <gnokii> helen_au: right, thats the point why I said make them later
12:52:13 <helen_au> yes
12:52:15 <helen_au> agreed
12:52:20 <helen_au> we're on the same page then
12:52:36 <helen_au> I removed most notes too, just in case anyone reads it and gets the wrong idea.
12:52:39 <gnokii> for both motifes exists a second when they dont happen
12:53:00 <helen_au> oh good.
12:53:54 <gnokii> evergreen becomes a motif what make ur release cycle more understandable and tumbleweed becomes a second OBS
12:54:29 <helen_au> sure
12:54:45 <jospoortvliet> morning lupinstein
12:54:52 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: you leaving?
12:55:10 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: afternoon :-)
12:55:13 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: yes, I was planning to do so, why ?
12:55:16 <helen_au> well I'm heading off too, see you in the morning hopefully with some inspiration for 11.4
12:55:20 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: ok when you're back please look at the feature guide http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4  you know what's going on
12:55:23 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
12:55:27 <jospoortvliet> need to be checked...
12:55:36 <jospoortvliet> I can try to make coolo do it but he hates that stuff more than anyone :D
12:55:46 <yaloki> ok, staying in front of the keyboard for one more cig then :)
12:55:48 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok good night and see u tomorrow
12:55:56 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: ha ok will do the same hehe
12:56:06 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: remember what I said about communication cripples? :D
12:56:34 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I choose to ignore many of the things you say, why? ;-)
12:56:38 <jospoortvliet> hehe
12:56:41 <jospoortvliet> yeah
12:57:12 <yaloki> "relying on both shared Free Software technologies as well as openSUSE specific features"
12:57:20 <jospoortvliet> I quoted him during the discussion with $SOMEONE in the last marketing meeting (which got promptly ignored by $SOMEONE, like most things other ppl say)
12:57:20 <yaloki> that sounds like the openSUSE specific features are not opensource
12:57:29 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: good point
12:57:55 <yaloki> dunno about cronie either..
12:58:09 <yaloki> if I'm not mistaken, the idea with cronie is that it is better suited for workstations
12:58:25 <yaloki> because it can catch up tasks that haven't been executed because the host was shut down
12:58:31 <jospoortvliet> fscking pulse audio
12:58:32 <jospoortvliet> meh
12:58:36 <jospoortvliet> no sound here
12:58:38 <jospoortvliet> and I need my music...
12:58:41 <jospoortvliet> meh meh meh
12:59:01 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: thanks, that cronie part is good, can fix that
12:59:12 <lupinstein> ? what are you guys talking about
12:59:15 * gnokii hope jospoortvliet remind one day about the installer slidesho text or how long should there written on Novell gives u openSUSE
13:00:01 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I think it should go asap
13:00:04 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
13:00:30 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: for 11.4 is gone or u think u can make it asap and translate it asap?
13:01:08 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I think we can make it
13:01:16 <jospoortvliet> we can use parts of the feature guide and strategy
13:01:22 <jospoortvliet> so it can be written quickly
13:01:24 <jospoortvliet> relatively...
13:01:28 <gnokii> u are funny
13:01:43 <gnokii> I am not so sure u get what I meant
13:01:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: he well I dunno how much time is needed for translation
13:01:47 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: oh sorry
13:02:18 <gnokii> I install a openSUSE right now and so I have to watch the slideshow
13:03:24 <lupinstein> ah, ok. I thought today was Social stuff, did I miss that
13:03:39 <gnokii> and I find url like http://www.novell.com/de-de/linux in a text funny
13:04:18 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: yeah, better check back on the cronie website though, I might be mistaking it with another cron implementation
13:04:42 * manugupt1 wonders how can the europeans and the ones in US bear the cold
13:05:21 <lupinstein> manugupt1: that's why we have food high in fat
13:05:23 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: damn, ok, I _did_ mistake it with another one :)
13:05:25 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: "has security and configuration enhancements like the ability to use pam and
13:05:28 <yaloki> SELinux"
13:05:38 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: so nothing major
13:05:52 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: yes it's social stuff
13:06:37 * gnokii has also a cotweet account for what it is for?
13:06:39 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: edit IN the doc pls :D
13:07:29 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: just wondering as the pad was openSUSE 11.4
13:07:56 * jospoortvliet also wonders how he survives. Then again, wearing shoes inside, mittens and two sweaters & a t-shirt
13:08:10 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: yeah it's one of the things we work on
13:08:19 <jospoortvliet> however, see topic, anything you want to do please jump on it :D
13:08:24 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: done
13:08:28 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: tnx
13:16:49 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: can the art-team have for 11.5/12.0/12.1 a hackfest?
13:17:06 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: sounds like a plan, yes
13:18:08 <jospoortvliet> I can support about one hackfest/sprint per (my budget) quarter. So  it can be either in May-June-July or August-Sept-Okt. If you want to do it for 12.0/11.5, May-June-July would be best I guess
13:18:10 <gnokii> would be only rlihm, javier, coolo, wstephenson, vuntz and me
13:18:49 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I would request to have ppl new to openSUSE artwork at a meeting. People who've been involved less than 6 months in openSUSE. We need to keep fresh blood flowing in...
13:18:53 <gnokii> would be prefer may, but that can become a problem
13:18:56 <jospoortvliet> (this requirement I want to have for each meeting)
13:19:07 <jospoortvliet> (one is enough)\
13:19:12 <jospoortvliet> (but more is better)
13:19:32 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: for the normal work yes, but this I see like Alan see it
13:19:47 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: let me get my alerts taking care of I will take a look.
13:19:50 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: ok, artwork is different in some ways
13:19:58 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: good :D
13:20:18 <gnokii> some time its better to make, a decision and talk then with the ppl otherwise no result comes out of a discussion
13:20:25 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: anyway, talk to them and see who else can come, find a date, and come back with a rough budget that would be needed and a location. If it's just a few dudes, I might be able to have a second meeting that quarter, that would rock.
13:20:55 <gnokii> for may would be possible to do it on linuxtag, but I am not so sure I am there
13:40:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: btw "[14:20] <gnokii> some time its better to make, a decision and talk then with the ppl otherwise no result comes out of a discussion" that doesn't sound like you very much ;-)
13:41:05 <jospoortvliet> did you just make an U turn?
13:41:26 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
13:42:59 <gnokii> no
13:43:21 <gnokii> but decission have to be by leaders not by ppl they think they are that
13:49:01 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Let me know if you got some time
14:31:05 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: sorry but did I miss the announcement for milestone 5 or exists there not something like that?
14:36:19 <lupinstein> gnokii: I didn't see it either, I looked yesterday when I download m5 to install
15:10:25 <jospoortvliet> sorry for being away for so long, had to get some food
15:10:28 <jospoortvliet> hungry hungry
15:10:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: no milestone 5 announcement still, I'm afraid
15:10:45 <jospoortvliet> nobody wrote it
15:10:47 <jospoortvliet> ...
15:10:59 <jospoortvliet> I wouldn't know how or what...
15:14:26 <gnokii> so jospoortvliet see u the guy!
15:14:32 <gnokii> noone wrote it
15:14:46 <jospoortvliet> so I have to? problem is - I never did it and don't know what is new
15:14:55 <jospoortvliet> I could write something but I need info about WHAT
15:15:03 <jospoortvliet> without something like a feature list - little I can do...
15:15:12 <jospoortvliet> if you know where I could find that, that would be great
15:15:14 <jospoortvliet> if there is something...
15:17:20 <jospoortvliet> anyone interested in doing writing and word smithing, go to http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS pls
15:17:42 <jospoortvliet> we need marketing texts and short descriptions for our websites and folders, posters etc
15:27:13 <polycarp> does the opensuse project include an attendant community or IS IT the community?
15:28:03 * gnokii have to draw now KDE in 2016 fear they dont accept my view
15:28:36 <jospoortvliet> polycarp: good question. I would say the openSUSE project is everything - community + technology/products
15:28:45 <jospoortvliet> but it is fuzzy
15:28:46 <polycarp> thx
15:28:50 <polycarp> yes it is
15:28:51 <polycarp> ;)
15:28:53 <jospoortvliet> project or community is basically ver similar
15:29:06 <jospoortvliet> we call it the openSUSE project, maybe community is wider
15:29:09 <jospoortvliet> includes users
15:29:13 <jospoortvliet> but even that - vague to me...
15:29:19 <jospoortvliet> something we should one day try to make clear
15:29:31 <jospoortvliet> but then again, KDE tried that with their rebranding, they're still struggeling :D
15:29:35 <jospoortvliet> ain't easy
15:30:26 <suseROCKs> hiya aledr
15:31:03 <aledr> hi suseROCKs , having fun with Jos?
15:31:46 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   I don't think they are that similar.   A project is a place where initiatives go forth.  Whereas a "community" can be a much broader term which includes even just users who don't actively participate in the Project, but are nevertheless vital to the sustaining of the Project
15:31:51 * jospoortvliet frowns at suseROCKs to ensure he says The Right Thing (TM)
15:32:12 <suseROCKs> aledr,   I try.  and its very easy to have fun with such a great guy.
15:32:13 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: you are right, polycarp listen to the master
15:32:16 <suseROCKs> (TM) fulfilled
15:32:22 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: hehe
15:32:49 <polycarp> thx suseROCKs
15:33:16 <suseROCKs> polycarp,   But I am curious about your perspective of where things seem unclear to you.   Hearing about it helps us to fine tune our message
15:33:45 <suseROCKs> aledr,   and what kind of fun are you having these days?
15:34:13 * suseROCKs tips his hat to the lovely Ms. izabelvalverde
15:34:20 <polycarp> well, in the 170 word project description, it is good to know whether or not the project has given rise to a vibrant and active community AROUND it or if the project IS it.
15:34:21 <polycarp> lol
15:34:44 <polycarp> I agree that the boundaries are semi-permeable.
15:35:28 <aledr> suseROCKs, not so many... got an exam at college today, i hope it is the last one =D Now I'm happy, just work. Need to fix some packages at OBS
15:35:34 <suseROCKs> well, effective vibrance and activity rely heavily on building the groundwork.  And to this, I believe we're seeing a rise because we have worked to put those pieces together over the years.
15:35:47 <izabelvalverde> suseROCKs such a gentleman ;-)
15:36:59 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: gentleman u must be naming me :D
15:37:25 <izabelvalverde> gnokii ok you deserve it too :D
15:38:06 <aledr> suseROCKs, What about you? Travelling yet?
15:39:18 <suseROCKs> aledr,   Nope.  i'm on blessed break!  3 of the longest at-home months since July 2009!
15:42:00 * manugupt1 wonders why has flickr not moved onto openid yahoo has such wonderful engineers
15:42:37 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: if they did that would rock I don't want to have a yahoo mail account... just for flickr... I use google account for most of my stuff :D
15:43:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, they have added google account just now so
15:43:47 <aledr> gnokii, great colors!!! (talking about screenshots at your post)
15:44:35 <aledr> I prefer the dark one...
15:44:56 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 can use picasa with gmail
15:45:23 <gnokii> aledr: the dark one is history
15:45:25 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, Sure..
15:46:11 <aledr> gnokii, still prefering ;D
15:47:07 <gnokii> yeah problem gnome team like to have another one
15:56:09 <gnokii> aledr: but there is a discussion on gnome list ;)
16:27:06 <anditosan> jospoortlvliet: It looks like you will be involved in a few things that deal with writing, I can help with that if you want. I do creative writing pretty often (I'm a historian, you know?) However, I would be an editor more that a creator.
16:33:15 <manugupt1> So anditosan have a look at this manigupt1.ietherpad.com/4
16:33:23 <gnokii> what no crazy user interface ideas anymore?
16:35:09 <anditosan> hahaha you and I gnokii are going to be best friends one day
16:35:10 <anditosan> :D
16:36:56 <anditosan> I recently decided to create an idea about the chat window for kopete. To simplifiy it by having a sinngle window where you can post your chat lines like you do on facebook or twitter
16:37:01 <anditosan> you can check it out
16:37:15 <jospoortvliet> anditosan: thanks
16:37:38 <jospoortvliet> you can start with either http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 or http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS ;-)
16:37:41 <jospoortvliet> whatever tickles you most...
16:37:45 <anditosan> jospoortvliet: no problem
16:37:48 <jospoortvliet> super
16:37:52 <jospoortvliet> hey guys, I need a little break
16:37:54 <jospoortvliet> or I go nuts
16:37:56 <jospoortvliet> srry
16:38:02 <jospoortvliet> back in half an hour or so
16:38:45 <gnokii> anditosan: sure I saw that, but I am the wrong person for gui design of kopete, we told u often go to KDE
16:39:32 <anditosan> no worries, I know that, I am just answering your question
16:39:37 <anditosan> ;)
16:52:37 <manugupt1> polycarp, jospoortvliet nice work :) on the second etherpad
17:19:54 <suseROCKs> Welcome CarlosRibeiro
17:20:15 <manugupt1> Hi CarlosRibeiro
17:20:20 <manugupt1> How are you
17:20:21 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: Hello
17:20:59 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1:  how are you doing my friend
17:21:08 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   What are you doing that Izabel is losing her connection and timing out?
17:21:11 <manugupt1> I am fine
17:21:38 <CarlosRibeiro> I see in etherpad that we already have something to be done ;)
17:21:47 <manugupt1> Yes.. lots CarlosRibeiro
17:22:38 <CarlosRibeiro> I looking to see if have something that I can give a hand
17:22:50 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, You can give it to a lot of things
17:23:30 <CarlosRibeiro> ;)
17:23:48 <manugupt1> :)
17:24:25 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE Short Descriptions BOF can be found at http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS
17:26:51 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE Sneak Peek can be found at http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
17:27:20 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE a list of keywords can be found at https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0
17:27:42 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Did I summarize todays things correctly
17:48:01 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1:   jospoortvliet  about, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 ,line 13. "This release brings significant improvements to the underlying infrastructure as well as the latest Free Software desktop and server packages."  sounds link the all features and nice things only are available to servers and Desktop.  And about ATM's, Cash register, POS Point of Service/Sale, Multimidia islands, Thin-clients, fat-client... so retail stores,
17:48:01 <CarlosRibeiro> financial market, healthcare sector, educational will not also be able to get benefits from 11.4?
17:48:26 <manugupt1> Obviously they will be CarlosRibeiro
17:49:18 <CarlosRibeiro> so I believe will fits better if we change a little bit like "From desktop to servers, this release brings significant improvements to the underlying infrastructure as well as the latest Free Software packages"
17:49:41 <manugupt1> Yes..
17:49:43 <CarlosRibeiro> and not finish with "desktops and servers"
17:49:52 <manugupt1> :)
17:55:35 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   i get your point, and you're definitely on the mark.  But i think we can come up with someting more descriptive than "underlying infrastructure"   it just comes away sounding like ...  "we don't know specifics"
17:56:45 <suseROCKs> there's just something missing,  some pizzazz to sparkle in that phrase....
17:57:06 <manugupt1> But suseROCKs CarlosRibeiro thats a sneak peek
17:57:09 <CarlosRibeiro> I go what you taling
17:57:17 <CarlosRibeiro> but I'm ot so creative today
17:57:24 <suseROCKs> we need a phrase thtat says  "from A-Z"
17:57:25 <CarlosRibeiro> I got I mean
17:57:26 <manugupt1> so we really dont know specifics it is what can be there and what can we hope in 11.4 thats how I see it as
17:57:49 <suseROCKs> no CarlosRibeiro   you got a good mark on it.  i think its great.   Just trying to figure out what word(s) can get the point of what you're saying
17:58:16 <CarlosRibeiro> ;)
17:58:39 <suseROCKs> Too bad "A-Z" just isn't nice to say in a statement.  :-D
17:59:41 <manugupt1> yes infrastructure
17:59:53 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, add some pizzaz please
18:00:02 <suseROCKs> "... significant improvements to fit your needs as well as the latest Free Software packages"
18:00:06 <suseROCKs> no  I don't like that either
18:00:18 <manugupt1> Lets change the Title too openSUSE 11.4 pizaaz instead of sneek peaks
18:00:27 <suseROCKs> underlying infrastructure is just too alienating I think.
18:01:16 <suseROCKs> c'mon, CarlosRibeiro  and manugupt1   Let's brainstorm.  Think up some words here and we'll find the magic spot
18:01:32 <suseROCKs> underlying infrastructure
18:01:34 <suseROCKs> a-z
18:01:38 <suseROCKs> suit your needs
18:02:02 <suseROCKs> spin the dreidel
18:02:05 <suseROCKs> (ok I made that one up)
18:07:13 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  hum... I was thinking something better than "... significant improvements to fit your needs as well as the latest Free Software packages"  but I agree sounds better
18:07:18 <manugupt1> Ok.. Guys.. Need your attention for a sec
18:07:19 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: +1
18:08:11 <manugupt1> Ok.. We wanted to describe openSUSE in 170 characters and that was a challenge
18:09:28 <manugupt1> So we came up with this
18:09:29 <manugupt1> openSUSE - An international collaboration of developers, sysadmins and users creating a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice, stability and ease of use with some of the most dynamic developer and IT tools
18:10:03 <manugupt1> Break it down to 170 characters sj are you up for the challenge
18:11:07 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, Dominian sj anyone..
18:11:28 <Dominian> ?
18:11:36 <Dominian> Sorry kind of in the middle of a big issue
18:12:06 <manugupt1> Dominian, Ok.. sorry for disturbing
18:12:39 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   you're +1ing the wrong thing.   I'm not opposing your change.  i think you rchange is great.  Just think we can find one word to change and make it sexier.  That's all.    So please....  +1 yourself!  ;-)
18:13:18 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   save two characters.  change " - " to "-"
18:13:32 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  I understand ... so +1 for us ;)
18:13:36 <manugupt1> Done..
18:13:48 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, suseROCKs will win
18:13:54 <Dominian> manugupt1: oh you are fine :)
18:13:59 <Dominian> just saying I'm really really busy right now :)
18:14:02 <suseROCKs> whew.   that 2 character savings thought was hard work!
18:14:24 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: I'm working on that 170 characters
18:14:33 <CarlosRibeiro> at least I'm trying :D
18:15:14 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   Just don't replace any words with F*da-se!  :-D
18:16:23 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  ok and about F#@ing $h|†?
18:16:25 <suseROCKs> uhoh   I think izabelvalverde sensed me swearing and came here to discipline me
18:16:27 <CarlosRibeiro> :D
18:16:53 <izabelvalverde> Hello guys... having fun? :D
18:17:04 <manugupt1> openSUSE - An international collaboration of developers, sysadmins and users creating a free, powerful and stable Linux distribution with choice and ease of use with some of the most dynamic developer and IT tools
18:17:14 <manugupt1> I win 213 characters suseROCKs
18:17:15 <CarlosRibeiro> izabelvalverde:  yes, but to be honest is much better now ;)
18:17:32 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, We are playing wanna join
18:17:54 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   I win.  211 characters... take out the space before and after "-"   :-D
18:18:28 <izabelvalverde> good collaboration is about how to play together as well ;-)
18:18:29 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   you took out "freedom"   :-(
18:18:31 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Cheat
18:18:38 <izabelvalverde> :D
18:18:51 <manugupt1> Yes
18:19:02 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, do you want to know the rules
18:19:08 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   an important metatag don't you think?
18:19:17 <manugupt1> keyword
18:19:26 <suseROCKs> oops  yeah  i mean keyword  :-D
18:19:36 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 tell me the rules
18:19:57 <suseROCKs> Rule 1:  Do not drink Santa's milk and eat his cookies before Christmas!
18:20:15 <suseROCKs> Rule 2:  Do not drink the milk after Christmas because it will be sour and dangerous after sitting near fireplace for a day!
18:20:18 <manugupt1> Look at the last statement by me about openSUSE, we need to get it to 170 characters without loosing its essence a
18:20:24 <manugupt1> I decide the winner :)
18:21:10 <manugupt1> Also ignore suseROCKs rule
18:21:24 <suseROCKs> you want her to drink the sour milk???  Shame!
18:22:06 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, You are not winning..
18:23:46 <manugupt1> Ok.. are there any more changes to it
18:25:29 <manugupt1> So imo I am good to go happy and satisfied :)
18:26:06 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: I got ... openSUSE, a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice based on international collaboration of developers, admins and users creating stability and ease of use tools
18:26:10 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   I don't even know what the prize is  :-)
18:26:33 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   that's even bigger  :-(
18:27:47 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, CarlosRibeiro wins
18:27:47 <manugupt1> 176 keywords
18:27:54 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  no now have 177 Dammit and before we had 210
18:28:02 <suseROCKs> oh  I counted it wrong   never mind  :-D
18:28:16 <manugupt1> 176 chraacters
18:28:31 <suseROCKs> Carlos wins the prize!    What does he get?
18:28:43 <manugupt1> but we loose about the dynamic developer tools and stuff CarlosRibeiro
18:28:56 <suseROCKs> I propose a free all-expense paid trip to Praia Grande for the winner  :-D
18:29:12 <manugupt1> That rocked
18:29:21 <CarlosRibeiro> Keep it the prize for now and I will take at osC 2011 ;)
18:29:44 * suseROCKs spanks CarlosRibeiro   its oSC.   Always capitalize the S!!!  :-D
18:30:02 <manugupt1> I like mine
18:30:07 <manugupt1> so I win :D
18:30:18 <suseROCKs> LOL,  that's cheating, manugupt1   :-D
18:30:50 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, there are plenty of things first I am going to oSC-11
18:31:05 <manugupt1> but seriously grammatically we are better
18:31:09 <CarlosRibeiro> :P
18:31:14 <manugupt1> go through it CarlosRibeiro suseROCKs
18:31:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   Sure.   But question here is, is that description going to pull in searchers?
18:31:40 <suseROCKs> we're losing some keywords here
18:31:52 <CarlosRibeiro> another one a little bit more informal, "openSUSE, a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice based on international collaboration of developers, admins and users creating a nice weekend for you"
18:32:21 * suseROCKs turns off his openSUSE Monday-Friday then  :-D
18:32:42 <suseROCKs> Since I won't use Windows, I guess I don't have to compute on weekdays.  Whoo hoo!
18:32:42 <izabelvalverde> free and freedom in the same phrase looks redundant
18:33:08 <manugupt1> I will be back in a while My Laptop's going to my bros custody
18:33:45 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   Can you briefly describe the purpose of this statement and keywords?
18:33:51 <suseROCKs> so we're all on the same page?
18:36:22 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1:  I got another one, take a look
18:36:24 <CarlosRibeiro> openSUSE, the most powerfull Linux Distro created in collaborative way by international developers, admins and users to give piece of mind and freedom of choice
18:38:41 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, We miss certain points
18:38:50 <manugupt1> 1. Developer Centric tools
18:39:43 <manugupt1> 2. Most powerful is boastful we need not be boastful but should attract them in a nice way
18:40:46 <suseROCKs> unfortunately, grammatically incorrect too
18:40:51 <jospoortvliet> guys and girls I'll be back in 20, really need to go to the toilet now and prepare some foodish stuff - was busy in a call, sorry... will then catch up to the discussion here.
18:41:05 <suseROCKs> uhh  jospoortvliet   Seriously?!?
18:41:12 <suseROCKs> You prepare food in the toilet?????
18:41:15 <manugupt1> yes that too.. jospoortvliet how long do you take to cook suseROCKs is missing you
18:41:25 <manugupt1> terribly
18:42:02 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,    JFYI....  its "peace of mind"... when you say "give piece of mind" it means  you are yelling at the person by "giving them a piece of your mind"
18:42:16 <CarlosRibeiro> ops
18:42:37 <manugupt1> Ok.. I had skipped that
18:42:51 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  do you know what meas ops
18:43:02 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   No.  :-D
18:43:28 <CarlosRibeiro> means like glup
18:43:37 <suseROCKs> hehe
18:43:51 <CarlosRibeiro> but could be "open platform solutions"
18:43:53 <CarlosRibeiro> :D
18:44:11 <suseROCKs> but no,  manugupt1 is right.  This description is for search engines.  So we need unique strong words that people will type in google that end up at our website
18:44:37 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, imagine this way
18:44:52 <manugupt1> You type openSUSE at google
18:45:30 <manugupt1> below opensuse.org you get some text, which is what we are preparing and this is what I hope to achieve with it
18:46:06 <CarlosRibeiro> ok
18:46:11 <manugupt1> So if people come and see the text they say Yes I am smart enough to take it
18:46:14 <CarlosRibeiro> I got the point
18:46:23 <manugupt1> Also Intellingent people use it not dumbos ;)
18:46:53 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   So I have to stop using it now?
18:47:09 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, openSUSE has made you smart enough ;)
18:47:33 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   Sounds like a slogan to me.... "Get smart!  Use openSUSE!"
18:47:52 <suseROCKs> openSUSE - Fill your brain!  (TM)
18:47:54 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, sounds like an aqua velva commercial to me ;)
18:48:22 <manugupt1> rkumar, raghu dixit was awesome sadly I missed him
18:48:32 <suseROCKs> openSUSE - Be like manugupt1!  (TM)
18:48:36 <manugupt1> Specially mysore se...
18:49:05 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, ok.. I get it now :)
18:49:11 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   How about this one...   ABSO!!!
18:49:32 <CarlosRibeiro> :D
18:49:33 <manugupt1> ABSO???
18:49:37 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs:  niice...
18:49:45 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro,   you owe me a dollar!
18:50:28 <manugupt1> Ok..
18:50:46 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1:  ABSO is carlos word, don't worry, it's because My english is too bad, but not much better than my portuguese, so I decided to create my own language and ABSO was the first one
18:51:27 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, ABSO meants Anti Social Behaviour Order
18:51:29 <CarlosRibeiro> so when I have few words more I would like to publish my Carlos's Dictionary
18:51:49 <suseROCKs> LOL manugupt1
18:52:03 <manugupt1> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ABSO suseROCKs ;)
18:52:21 <CarlosRibeiro> or An Business Solution is Open
18:52:41 <manugupt1> I like the 1st one though
18:54:55 <manugupt1> Ok.. so since CarlosRibeiro you sentences have been said no
18:55:07 <CarlosRibeiro> ahahaha -  I just remember about Jos now.... I wonder how is he cooking at toaillet... I imagining if he do some mistakes about ingredients :D
18:55:27 <manugupt1> So I am the winner and I get an all paid trip to oSC paid by jospoortvliet :D
18:55:41 <suseROCKs> all-paid???
18:55:47 <suseROCKs> no just airfare and hotel  :-P
18:55:48 <CarlosRibeiro> :D
18:55:53 <suseROCKs> you buy your own beer and hookers
18:56:16 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, I dont drink beer
18:56:19 <rkumar> manugupt1, :)
18:56:33 <suseROCKs> notice manugupt1 only denied the beer?  :-D
18:56:36 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1:  so you will pay for your own milk :D
18:56:41 <rkumar> suseROCKs, I remember you and awafaa promised me some beer on #ifolder
18:56:46 <rkumar> :)
18:57:02 <suseROCKs> rkumar,   We gave it to you, but you were too drunk to remember it.  :-D
18:57:12 <CarlosRibeiro> I get you beer, ok ?
18:57:19 <manugupt1> I noticed that too but hushh suseROCKs its all been copied into the logs
18:57:51 <jospoortvliet> so I just cooked together a toilet according to suseROCKs? nice, I'll leave it at that and only tell manugupt1 that I am mading an indian pumpkin soup (in the KITCHEN)
18:58:00 <jospoortvliet> all great work btw :D
18:58:07 <jospoortvliet> will now look at it and ruin it ;-)
18:58:08 <rkumar> suseROCKs, oh yeah... now I remember :)
18:58:26 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Indian pumpkin juice YUCK
18:58:42 <manugupt1> No one in India will have that rkumar will you
18:58:48 <jospoortvliet> not juice
18:58:50 <jospoortvliet> soup
18:58:51 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   what parts of the Indian's body do you put in the soup?
18:58:51 <jospoortvliet> jeez
18:58:58 <manugupt1> Not even Soup
18:59:00 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: the balls, of course...
18:59:02 <jospoortvliet> hehe
18:59:03 <manugupt1> Is it spicy
18:59:07 <jospoortvliet> yes
18:59:16 <jospoortvliet> well not like SUPER spicy but a bit ;-)
18:59:17 <manugupt1> I wont dare now
18:59:17 * rkumar is hungry and is going to eat now
18:59:19 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,  are you seriously asking if the balls are spicy?
18:59:26 <jospoortvliet> grrr
18:59:30 <jospoortvliet> did robert lihm show up today?
18:59:32 <jospoortvliet> he promised...
18:59:42 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, stop fantasising about jospoortvliet now
18:59:47 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, yes and he left
18:59:51 <jospoortvliet> hmmm
18:59:55 <manugupt1> he shows up everyday
19:00:12 <jospoortvliet> did he do the theming work on the social media channels (identi.ca and twitter) that he promised?
19:00:19 <jospoortvliet> (or rather, I promised him that he'll have to do that)
19:00:20 <jospoortvliet> ?
19:00:25 <jospoortvliet> I guess not :D
19:00:26 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, be careful I gotta warn you officially now.. Dont thinks so
19:01:14 <manugupt1> Ok.. jospoortvliet You just awarded me an all expense paid trip to oSC-2011 Did you know that
19:01:34 <suseROCKs> hookers and batteries not included  (TM)
19:01:39 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: fine :D
19:02:12 <manugupt1> I am making an #info now ;)
19:02:42 <CarlosRibeiro> about theming
19:02:42 <CarlosRibeiro> somebody is working on that?
19:02:47 <manugupt1> Ok.. no..
19:03:39 * sj is back for sometime :)
19:03:44 <sj> hello peeps :)
19:04:00 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, I suggest we check out what we have covered
19:04:14 <manugupt1> hi sj
19:04:28 <CarlosRibeiro> sj: hello
19:04:46 <sj> manugupt1, hi
19:04:49 <jospoortvliet> hi sj
19:04:51 <sj> CarlosRibeiro,  how have you been
19:04:58 <sj> jospoortvliet, hello :)
19:05:38 <sj> jospoortvliet, how have you been ? :)
19:05:56 <jospoortvliet> sj:  usual - busy but happy  :D
19:06:09 <sj> i like being busy and that makes me happy :)
19:06:23 <manugupt1> sj, I hate being busy
19:06:29 <sj> :)
19:06:30 <CarlosRibeiro> sj:  I've try to be a good boy during 2010, ... you know man, I cannot tell the true, we never know if  santa claus is in this chanell, and I would like to have a nice present from him next 25 ;)
19:06:46 <sj> CarlosRibeiro, haha :)
19:07:03 <sj> alright CarlosRibeiro so how bad were you ?
19:07:13 <sj> that doesnt sound good . jk CarlosRibeiro  :)
19:07:30 <CarlosRibeiro> sj:  Hey Santa Claus, if you are around here, I was a good boy, serious
19:08:10 <sj> yes he was :)
19:08:14 <CarlosRibeiro> so and to prove that I was a nice guy I 'm giving some cents as my contribuition for today Collaboration Day
19:08:31 <sj> jospoortvliet,  am i interrupting the meeting ? you guys can continue
19:08:46 <sj> :)
19:08:47 <manugupt1> sj, we are having fun as usual :)
19:08:55 <sj> cool !
19:09:50 <CarlosRibeiro> ok, I need to back on track and focus on work to be done
19:10:07 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, You there
19:10:10 <manugupt1> also suseROCKs
19:10:14 <manugupt1> you too
19:10:24 <jospoortvliet> I'm here
19:10:28 <jospoortvliet> going through the docs
19:10:29 <manugupt1> I made some comments http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia
19:10:34 <suseROCKs> i'm back
19:10:39 <manugupt1> Check that out
19:10:42 <jospoortvliet> but I will be in a call
19:10:45 <jospoortvliet> with vuntz
19:10:47 <jospoortvliet> about now, sorry
19:10:55 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet,   say hi to vuntz for me
19:11:14 <manugupt1> You need to scroll them down
19:17:41 <manugupt1> Guys I think I will leave now
19:17:55 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, jospoortvliet please can you continue
19:18:33 <manugupt1> I will wait for them
19:23:49 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, jospoortvliet let me know whenever you are alive
19:27:22 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   what exactly is it you need?
19:27:35 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, I need to get some sleep
19:27:47 <suseROCKs> and you want us to do the sleeping for you?  :-)
19:27:50 <manugupt1> So I wanted some one to be here
19:28:25 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Good night I am leaving I am exhausted for today
19:29:14 <manugupt1> Fine with you sir
19:29:14 <suseROCKs> manugupt1,   ok  I gotta talk to the workers now.  Many thanks for all your work!
19:30:01 <manugupt1> So bye all enjoy continue thanks a lot for your work :)
19:52:55 <jospoortvliet> good night manu...
19:52:59 <jospoortvliet> sorry that I missed him leaving...
19:53:11 <jospoortvliet> he did amazing work...
20:01:42 <jospoortvliet> and now, guys, I need to EAT the food I made, sorry!
20:01:46 <jospoortvliet> will be back later.
20:01:50 <jospoortvliet> thanks all, again :D
20:42:11 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: u dont need to eat
20:42:52 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: are you calling me fat?
20:43:06 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: do you want me to beat you up?
20:43:08 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
20:49:05 <gnokii> no I dont call u fat, but only who works can eat, so report what u have done today
20:49:57 <gnokii> btw, I had some nice lamb, an pudding with water from roses (tasted like soap) for dinner and 3 black beer
20:55:12 <javier_> tasted like soap?
20:55:34 <javier_> rose-flavour soap ;)
21:10:46 <gnokii> javier_:  yes
21:19:28 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, hi are you around?
21:19:39 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup!
21:19:42 <jospoortvliet> good morning!!!
21:19:46 <jospoortvliet> slept well I hope?
21:19:48 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
21:19:51 <helen_au> yes thank you :)
21:20:12 <helen_au> question re Tumbleweed: Yaloki mentioned political sensitivity
21:20:15 <gnokii> huhu helen_au
21:20:18 <helen_au> of Tumbleweed and Evergreen
21:20:24 * helen_au waves at gnokii
21:20:35 <gnokii> helen_au: there is only politics in evergreen
21:20:46 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: helen_au: indeed, I think so too
21:20:49 <helen_au> ok so we DO go ahead and say stuff about tumbleweed then?
21:20:49 <gnokii> its about an free version of SLES
21:21:06 <jospoortvliet> the problem with Evergreen /LTS is that it might bump into the business of Novell
21:21:16 <helen_au> oh right that makes sense.
21:21:19 <jospoortvliet> one of the options for doing evergreen was doing an open version of SLES
21:21:25 <jospoortvliet> which wouldn't be appreciated for obvious reasons
21:21:27 <gnokii> about tumbleweed that definitly happen, GKH stnads for it and coolo helped him last week to set it up
21:21:29 <yaloki> helen_au: evergreen, not tumbleweed
21:21:42 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: the reasons aren't necessarily obvious
21:21:48 <helen_au> ok, so we leave evergreen alone but Tumbleweed is LTS desktop so going ahead.
21:21:58 <helen_au> I had mentally lumped them together as both lts
21:22:09 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: there is no problem, there was a clear statement from Gerald last year at conference
21:22:25 <gnokii> and if u read the discussion right, same statment this year
21:22:41 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: well, Novell sees it as a potential business danger; moreover, I heard that Red Hat is not happy with CentOS and they claim that it eats into their business. I personally see the pro's and con's but fact of the matter is that senior management doesn't want it and frankly I simply don't have good arguments to change their minds.
21:22:46 <yaloki> helen_au: no, two different beasts :)
21:22:54 <helen_au> yep I see now.
21:22:55 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: wait wait
21:23:01 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: tumbleweed is the rolling release
21:23:03 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: 1) redhat loves centos, that's a fact
21:23:12 <yaloki> you'll never have a public statement on that
21:23:13 <jospoortvliet> evergreen is openSUSE LTS
21:23:18 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: there is a difference between Centos and evergreen
21:23:22 <yaloki> but I've talked extensively to a former core centos member
21:23:24 <yaloki> now
21:23:31 <gnokii> centos is a RHEL clone, evergreen not
21:23:34 <jospoortvliet> and a potential openSLE would be a bigger issue (and be like centos)
21:23:37 <yaloki> the (understandable) reason for which "openSLE" won't happen
21:23:57 <yaloki> is that the subscription-only sales with SLE are an important part of the SLE revenue
21:24:07 <yaloki> that part would obviously disappear if we have an openSLE
21:24:12 <yaloki> so that's why
21:24:14 <yaloki> and it's a good reason
21:24:21 <yaloki> but it isn't obvious to everyone :)
21:24:29 * helen_au nods...
21:24:42 <yaloki> of course, it's chicken/egg
21:24:56 <yaloki> with an openSLE, it is likely that SLE would get more traction and sales
21:25:04 <yaloki> but there is no guarantee that that'll happen
21:25:07 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: that is the same for CentOS. I know Red Hat was initially not that opposed but I heard that lately they have changed their minds after seeing more of the effects of CENTOS. Apparently they currently believe it hurts their business. Meanwhile you're right in that this will never be stated publicly, one way or another.
21:25:07 <helen_au> would LTS openSUSE have any impact on SLED, even without the support factors?
21:25:15 <helen_au> LTS is a big factor to me.
21:25:27 <yaloki> helen_au: it wouldn't
21:25:30 <gnokii> KDE sucks it need so much RAM I cant open a konsole for install gnoem
21:25:49 <helen_au> gnokii, really how much RAM do you have?
21:25:54 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I agree on that one, there might be a minor impact, with emphasis on minor
21:25:56 <yaloki> helen_au: openSUSE LTS (aka "evergreen") is a different thing, and we're still thinking about the options
21:25:57 <gnokii> 1024
21:26:07 <jospoortvliet> and there are positive effects too so in the end I think it would be a plus
21:26:12 <helen_au> oh that ain't much. Boot straight to CL
21:26:18 <helen_au> install from command line then.
21:26:48 <helen_au> oh jeebus I thought Evergreen was the LTS server. Tumbleweed is the server?
21:27:03 <yaloki> helen_au: no, they're two totally different things
21:27:19 <helen_au> which one is which. (sorry the caffiene hasn't hit).
21:28:04 <helen_au> gnokii, actually with 1024 you'll have to turn off compiz and gnome will be boring, install LXDE
21:28:21 <gnokii> no helen_au tumbleweed is a rolling release distribution of openSUSE
21:28:48 <helen_au> right so I was right the first time.
21:28:54 <gnokii> helen_au: I would do that, when I wouldnt need the KDE side
21:28:58 <helen_au> LTS=long term support rolling release
21:29:00 <helen_au> ?
21:29:04 <gnokii> no
21:29:15 <gnokii> long term support means not rolling releas
21:29:28 <helen_au> aha.
21:29:40 <gnokii> lts means u get apache 2.x and u sty with apache 2.x the next 3 years
21:29:53 <gnokii> rolling releas means u always get the newest one
21:29:53 <helen_au> oh. really? wouldn't it get dated really quickly?
21:30:22 <yaloki> helen_au: it gets updated all the time
21:30:24 <helen_au> so Tumbleweed is rolling release like Arch, always getting new things
21:30:29 <yaloki> helen_au: yes
21:30:51 <yaloki> helen_au: pretty much what you can already get right now, if you add lots and lots of additional repositories
21:30:53 <gnokii> right
21:30:55 <helen_au> Evergreen if it goes ahead would be a server edition long term support, which doesn't change much at all.
21:31:05 <yaloki> helen_au: sort of
21:31:11 <yaloki> helen_au: the fact that it's server oriented is
21:31:26 <yaloki> 1) because we don't think we'd have the manpower to do the maintenance of a complete distro (including the desktop)
21:31:41 <yaloki> 2) because we believe that the most common scenario/need for an LTS distro is for servers
21:31:53 <helen_au> I see.
21:31:57 <yaloki> especially hosted servers where you don't have physical access and where upgrading a distro is always a risky undertaking
21:32:15 <helen_au> mm.
21:32:16 <yaloki> helen_au: so the idea with evergreen would be to start by prolonging an EOL release, e.g. 11.1
21:32:30 <yaloki> helen_au: but concentrate on a small core of the system, to be realistic
21:32:47 <gnokii> yes helen_au thats the point and then stepped another forward and cried for an SLED/SLES version noone wanted that, even jospoortvliet saw that
21:32:51 <helen_au> and as you said earlier, the people who would want that at the moment are probably SLES customers?
21:32:52 <yaloki> helen_au: kernel, glibc, etc... -- for the rest, you can always get newer versions from OBS repositories (e.g. for apache or mysql or ...)
21:33:05 <yaloki> helen_au: no
21:33:15 <yaloki> helen_au: that would be for the "openSLE" option
21:33:24 <yaloki> helen_au: we saw two ways of implementing an "openSUSE LTS"
21:33:36 <yaloki> helen_au: either we do "openSLE", or we make it based on openSUSE
21:33:53 <yaloki> helen_au: the former is next to impossible, except doing it as a rogue initiative against the will of novell
21:33:59 <helen_au> but it's still got the same application - running a server?
21:34:00 <yaloki> helen_au: (and, hence, not as a part of the opensuse project)
21:34:18 <yaloki> helen_au: limiting ourselves to the server is due to the choice we're doing
21:34:25 <helen_au> sure
21:34:32 <yaloki> it's not necessarily the goal per se
21:34:57 <yaloki> if a lot of people join the evergreen project, we could include a lot more software in the support, including KDE and GNOME
21:35:12 <yaloki> but the idea is to start small (kernel, stuff like that)
21:35:18 <helen_au> o I see.
21:35:27 <yaloki> because the tricky thing is, and that's where it is diametrically opposed to tumbleweed,
21:35:33 <yaloki> in order to provide the maintenance,
21:35:45 <yaloki> we'll have to backport bugfixes and security fixes on older versions of things (e.g. kernel)
21:36:02 <yaloki> to avoid pushing newer versions of those packages, which would introduce new risks of incompatibilities and things breaking
21:36:07 <yaloki> so that's quite some amount of work
21:36:18 <helen_au> could that dilute the efforts with openSUSE desktop?
21:36:33 <yaloki> define "openSUSE desktop"
21:36:48 <yaloki> helen_au: you mean the kde and gnome teams' efforts?
21:37:10 <helen_au> well would it be a separate team to maintian
21:37:13 <yaloki> not really, no, as they are focusing on the next release
21:37:19 <yaloki> and they will continue to do so
21:37:34 <yaloki> and only provide e.g. the newest KDE on versions that are not end of life
21:37:43 <yaloki> but they only do when it's possible without too much effort
21:38:08 <yaloki> helen_au: I have no idea whether they would also help us and do the work of patching KDE/GNOME on evergreen
21:38:24 <helen_au> there's only so many hours in a day
21:38:28 <yaloki> helen_au: it definitely wouldn't be part of their work assignments, for those who work for novell
21:38:46 <yaloki> helen_au: as novell will not invest into evergreen, they don't see the need for it or, rather, it's not a priority for them
21:39:08 <yaloki> helen_au: so it's something that will solely be driven and implemented during people's free time
21:39:36 <yaloki> helen_au: it's likely that we'll have some help from the suse security team (marcus & friends) as they already have to do that work for SLE
21:39:44 <yaloki> but we're not there yet ^^
21:39:46 <helen_au> ok
21:39:55 <yaloki> (which is why I said earlier that it's really too early to write anything about it)
21:40:00 <helen_au> yep.
21:40:10 <yaloki> hope that helped clarifying :)
21:40:13 * yaloki bbiab
21:40:27 <helen_au> thanks
21:42:12 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: so now you know everything :D
21:42:15 <jospoortvliet> btw
21:42:31 <jospoortvliet> I wanted to get an article out on these two projects on news.o.o
21:42:34 <jospoortvliet> started something, mostly notes
21:42:44 <jospoortvliet> Izabel offered to help but she hasn't had time yet
21:42:49 <helen_au> well it seems we would want to tread carefully there though.
21:42:56 <helen_au> it's all a bit 'up in the air'
21:43:19 <jospoortvliet> well at news.o.o we can easily say that it's simply about new initiatives being started and they are new so if they don't work out, well, that's how things go...
21:43:23 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
21:43:25 <helen_au> just reading the bit about the Board meetings - lol@email asking to speed an application, I wonder if it was that kid on Facebook
21:43:29 <jospoortvliet> and give pointers as to where to start...
21:43:32 * gnokii sends helen_au a piece of stollen yaloki get none, he dont like it
21:43:50 * helen_au thanks gnokii *yum*
21:44:29 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, talking 'around' the projects... marketing-speak.....
21:44:48 <gnokii> helen_au: we should participatee in K16
21:45:01 <helen_au> K16?
21:45:09 <helen_au> (am I living under a rock?)
21:46:17 <gnokii> its a project from KDE they want a creative work, so like a wikipedia page from 2016 and how KDE look there
21:46:37 <helen_au> hmm.
21:46:57 <helen_au> I think a three-dimensional tabletop, you just wave your hand over and can manipulate icons in 3D
21:47:03 <helen_au> flick them away
21:47:04 <gnokii> I do a comic, one programmer and 20 over him the talk about the work
21:47:08 <helen_au> pluck them out of air
21:47:15 <jospoortvliet> gnokii:  helen_au this one? http://dot.kde.org/2010/12/20/introducing-k16-and-future-kde
21:48:25 <helen_au> aha. Some interesting comments there (just quick scan just now)
21:48:55 <helen_au> very good comment at top - 'how about stabilizin and optimizing'
21:49:00 <helen_au> this is very much how I feel
21:49:15 <helen_au> about software in general. - make it work! Stop adding eye candy and just make it stable!
21:49:58 <helen_au> no point in repainting my car and adding a new GPS if the engine still clunks.
21:51:44 <jospoortvliet> then again, that is not the focus of the meeting
21:51:57 <jospoortvliet> the focus is about the future, not some minor improvements - despite the fact that those are important
21:52:06 <jospoortvliet> because that's short term thinking ;-)
21:52:12 <helen_au> not necessarily
21:52:15 <jospoortvliet> which makes you eternally working on windows 95
21:52:24 <helen_au> if people start seeing future as bright shiny toys
21:52:25 <jospoortvliet> iow you get stuck recreating what MS did 15 years ago
21:52:31 * gnokii fun the whole year wasnt so lot of traffic in openSUSE on linked.in like since one of the admins of the group candidated
21:52:32 <helen_au> not smart ways to make things better
21:52:50 <helen_au> I see your point jos
21:53:01 <jospoortvliet> point is that modern computers can do much smarter things to make your work better. KDE is working on that, lately GNOME is as well (zeitgeist)
21:53:07 <helen_au> how do you make boring ideas like 'stability and functionality' part of an exciting future?
21:53:07 <jospoortvliet> but you must USE the capabilities of computers
21:53:27 <jospoortvliet> not complain that a system with 64 mb ram used to run windows 95 just fine but doesn't handle a modern KDE or GNOME desktop...
21:53:38 <jospoortvliet> well the team asks for a few things
21:53:49 <jospoortvliet> first,  a vision of where computing is going
21:54:03 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: the main different between KDE and GNOME is yes gnome3 was planned to release earlier, but still on KDE are some things not released we spoke 1996
21:54:04 <jospoortvliet> second, a goal which fits in there - and gets us somewhere
21:54:14 <jospoortvliet> finally, a way to get there with the community and the way it works
21:54:39 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: GNOME is great but they work very different and have different goals.
21:54:39 <gnokii> or was it 200, I dont remember but it was a long time ago
21:54:47 <helen_au> mostly outside of my capabilities, I don't yet have a thorough enough understanding of software.
21:54:57 <helen_au> I love KDE as it is actually
21:55:15 <jospoortvliet> well yes, and the most important part is about the community, and the future of that. Less about the product
21:55:19 <helen_au> To me it feels exciting to use - light, fresh, beautiful.
21:55:21 <jospoortvliet> that doesn't matter that much, it'll get there
21:55:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: that's what they are going for. Unfortunately the 'minor' things (which you actually need) fall through the cracks too often
21:55:46 <gnokii> I need 4 clicks for a simple logout and no I dont like to add a app for a logout
21:55:57 <helen_au> (but I still have to go to gnome/ubuntu to run my graphics card with Warcraft)
21:56:14 <jospoortvliet> I've been cursing my computer downstairs yesterday. They have added a speed graph to a file progress dialog. but you can't resize progress dialogs to see the whole path. Priorities?!?!?
21:56:33 <helen_au> lol
21:56:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: hmmm, ctrl-shift-F12 shuts down compositing, warcraft should work by then...
21:56:47 <jospoortvliet> and you can run compiz in KDE too
21:56:53 <jospoortvliet> or even metacity
21:57:00 <jospoortvliet> I mixed and matched for a while
21:57:04 <jospoortvliet> unfortunately there are some issues
21:57:08 <helen_au> no I think some conflict between the openSUSE kernel and latest Catalyst driver
21:57:10 <jospoortvliet> and I ended up replacing pretty much all of GNOME ;-)
21:57:48 <helen_au> those issues and conflicts - they are current and real -  NOT 'trying to keep windows 95 alive'
21:57:49 <jospoortvliet> eg nautilus sucks -> dolphin. Metacity & compiz kill me -> kwin. Gnome panels are OK-ish, kept that. And a few apps...
21:57:55 <gnokii> ooh did I mention I had also an salad?
21:57:57 <helen_au> it's about focusing on doing the essentials really well
21:58:01 <jospoortvliet> yes
21:58:03 <jospoortvliet> that's missing right now
21:58:15 <helen_au> a touch of perfectionism perhaps
21:58:23 <jospoortvliet> IF someone can come up with an idea on how to focus the community on that - that would be awesome
21:58:26 <helen_au> that's what Apple gets right (mostly) - less options, more perfection.
21:58:42 <jospoortvliet> that's actually where the K16 meetings originated - some KDE developers WANT to go in that direction
21:58:44 <helen_au> we all like to run off chasing our current Great Idea
21:58:55 <jospoortvliet> but many don't, they just want to play with the latest & greatest tech
21:58:57 <jospoortvliet> yes
21:58:59 <jospoortvliet> exactly
21:59:06 <helen_au> we shouldn't be afraid of learning from others, even our enemy. :)
21:59:18 <jospoortvliet> agreed...
21:59:27 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: or some like to be a new thing to talk about
21:59:34 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: yup
21:59:45 <helen_au> something like a split focs
21:59:48 <helen_au> focus
21:59:58 <helen_au> here is the core that MUST be perfect
22:00:02 <helen_au> here is the other stuff you can play with
22:00:04 <gnokii> and that would be my comic one coder and 20 ppl they talk about
22:00:08 <jospoortvliet> but it's a balance. GNOME seemed to almost have come to a standstill, losing (volunteer) developers because there is little excitement. So you have to find something inbetween
22:00:24 <jospoortvliet> initially KDE went for that with 4.0 - at least, when it comes to usability. Polish is still lacking...
22:00:31 <jospoortvliet> and they didn't really succeed to turn the ship
22:00:33 <jospoortvliet> well some apps
22:00:37 <jospoortvliet> like gwenview and dolphin
22:00:41 <jospoortvliet> they are the best in their class
22:00:43 <jospoortvliet> by far imho
22:00:49 <jospoortvliet> but many others - still messy
22:00:50 <gnokii> ^^
22:00:54 <jospoortvliet> eg digikam
22:00:55 <helen_au> I remember someone in a magazine talking about KDE developers as a bunch of long-haired hippies
22:01:03 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup, many are
22:01:04 <helen_au> while Gnome are guys in suits
22:01:09 <helen_au> (as a metaphor)
22:01:16 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: again yes, it's not a bad metaphor
22:01:22 <jospoortvliet> GNOME has a larger % of ppl paid
22:01:26 <jospoortvliet> and a much stronger top-down structure
22:01:28 <gnokii> helen_au: so far he has right
22:01:29 <jospoortvliet> leadership etc
22:01:35 <helen_au> and the attitude
22:01:36 <gnokii> gnome writes software for using
22:01:52 <gnokii> KDE have a lot of ideas, like smoking hippies :D
22:01:53 <jospoortvliet> KDE is more bottom up, more like openSUSE, GNOME is more like canonical - ppl telling where to go
22:02:06 <jospoortvliet> company influence vs community members just having fun
22:02:15 <helen_au> quite difficult to direct.
22:02:19 <jospoortvliet> that's why I feel at home in openSUSE, very flat, little ppl telling you what to do
22:02:25 <helen_au> I'm definitley KDE person then :)
22:02:27 <jospoortvliet> yes, true, that's the difficulty
22:02:28 <jospoortvliet> hehe
22:02:40 <helen_au> I like to do my own thing, if it's interesting I'll jump in
22:02:46 <jospoortvliet> but there is something to say for both approaches
22:03:00 <helen_au> yes otherwise it can be a big mess.
22:03:21 <helen_au> they have to find what will keep the KDE people excited and working in the same direction
22:03:41 <helen_au> get them to put in the extra 10% needed to polish up after the first excitement of a new idea has worn off
22:04:11 <jospoortvliet> I think GNOME Shell vs Plasma are perfect examples. GNOME Shell is designed by a small team, then the rest of the developers have to follow their lead. Deviations are not really allowed (which is why Canonical couldn't work with them). Plasma is - let's build great technology that allows you to do ANYTHING! Oh, yes, and we have to create a standard, old-fashioned desktop for those boring users. AND then we can HAVE fun!
22:04:13 <jospoortvliet> build a mobile version! an Netbook version! a Media Center! yay! Oh, the desktop sucks? well, you don't get it, you have to play with it more :D
22:04:36 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: so how to do that 10%?
22:04:44 <jospoortvliet> you need dedicated ppl with a clear vision for that
22:04:48 <jospoortvliet> which is what K16 aims to do
22:05:00 <jospoortvliet> They tried before with the Appeal project but it failed
22:05:09 <gnokii> KDE is more waiting for a great idea when its programmed also
22:05:39 <helen_au> hmm. I wish I'd been involved with KDE and knew more about it and the people.
22:05:41 <jospoortvliet> they hoped distributions would pick it up. SUSE used to do that to some extend, Mandriva too. But both didn't have the money for it anymore because there is little if any money to be made on the linux desktop. So now they need another way.
22:05:56 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: well it's an interesting world
22:05:58 <jospoortvliet> but so is openSUSE :D
22:06:04 <jospoortvliet> we, in the end, SHIP the darn thing
22:06:08 <jospoortvliet> and there's plenty going on here
22:06:14 <jospoortvliet> besides we're very close with KDE
22:06:16 <jospoortvliet> plenty KDE devs here
22:06:27 <jospoortvliet> and as icing on the cake - we're ALSO close to GNOME ;-)
22:06:29 <helen_au> a pity we couldn't get Novell involved, I mean desktop is so integral, and to me KDE goes so well with openSUSE
22:06:31 <jospoortvliet> you can have both in openSUSE
22:06:35 <jospoortvliet> that's the good thing
22:06:38 <helen_au> being business/learning/science, exciting and fresh
22:06:48 <helen_au> not the dull Microsoft business side
22:06:52 <jospoortvliet> yeah, I know. But Novell initially bought Ximian, and that's a GNOME shop
22:06:56 <jospoortvliet> created big issues in Novell
22:07:03 <jospoortvliet> now history, but still
22:07:07 <jospoortvliet> it's why openSUSE does both
22:07:17 <jospoortvliet> personally, I try to leverage that, as a strength, not a weakness
22:07:21 <helen_au> gnome is great too, I'm not knocking it by any means.
22:07:25 <helen_au> yeah
22:07:30 <helen_au> having that options is great
22:07:34 <jospoortvliet> after all, KDE and GNOME are so different, they can each contribute to a better FOSS world
22:07:38 <jospoortvliet> and they should cooperate more
22:07:44 <helen_au> totally
22:07:44 <jospoortvliet> which is why I'm involved in the Desktop Summit
22:07:55 <jospoortvliet> and try to push collaborative efforts...
22:07:56 <helen_au> I think this us vs them mindset we get is so counterproductive
22:08:00 <jospoortvliet> yup
22:08:10 <jospoortvliet> unless it is 'everybody against Ubuntu'
22:08:12 <jospoortvliet> joking ;-)
22:08:13 <helen_au> lol
22:08:23 <jospoortvliet> hehe
22:08:32 <helen_au> the 'off' button on my ubuntu task bar dissapeared again... bizarre
22:08:38 <jospoortvliet> actually trying to convince Ubuntu ppl to join a openSUSE organized meeting on appstore technology...
22:09:01 <jospoortvliet> hehe
22:09:10 <jospoortvliet> it just loves you so much it won't let you leave ;-)
22:09:28 <helen_au> *shudder* ... cue creepy music
22:09:38 <helen_au> they are their own entity now I think...
22:10:02 <helen_au> despite Shuttleworth's pretty letter in response to the OSCON invite I don't see them collaborating anytime soon.
22:10:16 <helen_au> I notice that Jono Bacon is popping up everywere at the moment.
22:10:59 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, if you want to get an article into a print magazine I'll be more than happy to contribute.
22:11:42 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: well the two articles I have in mind right now are more news.o.o material - information on what's going on in our community
22:11:54 <jospoortvliet> not that they couldn't, in time, be articles for print
22:12:11 <helen_au> I think while news.o.o is important it's also good to get 'out there'
22:12:15 <helen_au> get the broader profile
22:12:27 <helen_au> he's been doing a lot in Linux Format
22:12:28 <jospoortvliet> one is the 'new projects' thing (tumbleweed and maybe Evergreen), the other should be a short one about a new cloud repo being worked on
22:12:36 <jospoortvliet> hmmm
22:12:38 <helen_au> things like about burndown charts, how they develop, how their community works.
22:12:46 <jospoortvliet> hmmmmmmm
22:12:49 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: u should stop the discussion and help helen_auwrite it
22:12:54 <helen_au> community and business oriented
22:13:02 <helen_au> well I was thinking I'd help Jos write it :)
22:13:12 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: well I have those two articles to write, besides the other things like reimbursement handling etc etc
22:13:19 <jospoortvliet> and it's late already
22:13:27 <helen_au> maybe for the future that's something to think about.
22:13:36 <gnokii> then work
22:13:38 <helen_au> I'll see if I can find the articles I have from him, scan and send them to you for ideas.
22:13:46 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: I would appreciate that
22:13:52 <jospoortvliet> yes
22:13:53 <jospoortvliet> thanks
22:13:57 <helen_au> something based on your expertise in community/psychology
22:14:00 <gnokii> and keep in mind how its is when others dirve u to work, and earn the honor for what u did
22:14:40 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: ? you mean giving others credit for what I did? Actually, I do that regularly, like for news.o.o...
22:14:42 <jospoortvliet> ;-)
22:14:46 <jospoortvliet> anyway, gnokii is right, I go back to my writing...
22:14:51 <jospoortvliet> and other things
22:15:02 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: are you busy on writing things?
22:15:13 <helen_au> well mostly busy with Christmas and kids
22:15:15 <gnokii> an credit is given from u, claim the honor isnt the same like that
22:15:24 <helen_au> got to finish off OBS -still-
22:15:27 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I don't understand what you try to say
22:15:38 <helen_au> have put in proposal for Linux Format
22:15:38 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok, busy, I get it. Don't want to overload you ;-)
22:15:45 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: awesome, really!
22:15:46 <gnokii> u will find out one day
22:15:49 <jospoortvliet> if you need a review, let me know
22:16:03 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I have a feeling you're not being nice but I don't understand you so I
22:16:05 <helen_au> well if you have piratepads going you can send me links
22:16:06 <jospoortvliet> will just ignore it
22:16:14 <helen_au> I'll take a look later on.
22:16:15 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: you rock. Same to you :D
22:16:57 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, cheers mate.
22:17:19 <jospoortvliet> @ helen_au and everyon else: these still need some work: http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS (short descriptions of openSUSE, I prepared some texts but they need review) http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 (announcement and feature guide)
22:17:22 <helen_au> gnokii, credit is nice but also I don't mind being 'behind the scenes'sometimes
22:17:50 <helen_au> jos has done a lot to help me get started in openSUSE so I'm always glad to give something back.
22:18:02 <helen_au> same with any openSUSE contributors that I can help out.
22:18:12 <helen_au> I think we all feel that way mostly.
22:18:37 <gnokii> helen_au: its not about credit it about who does the work and who get the cookie for it ;) btw made u ur sponsoring reqiest fpr hackfest?
22:19:01 <helen_au> Europe is a long way away and I haven't even got a passport yet
22:19:23 <helen_au> so probably not. Even with sponsorship I haven't got any spare cash anyways
22:19:32 <helen_au> so I'll contribute online :)
22:19:33 <gnokii> its in february
22:19:43 <helen_au> yeah
22:20:03 <gnokii> so make a request, jospoortvliet pay for it
22:20:30 <helen_au> all the way from here to Europe AND accommodation?
22:20:40 <helen_au> I doubt there's a budget for that
22:20:47 <jospoortvliet> fpr hackfest, what is that?
22:21:00 <gnokii> for that was a misstype
22:21:12 <helen_au> maybe next openSUSE conference, I'll have a passport and some spare cash.
22:21:28 <gnokii> helen_au: make the request
22:23:34 <gnokii> helen_au: u shouldnt worry about the costs others dont and because of that they get always cookies
22:24:40 <helen_au> about $1000 sydney to los angeles return, plus flights to wagga probably another $200
22:24:48 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: wrong channel?
22:24:56 <helen_au> oops
22:25:20 <gnokii> LA is the wrong direction :D
22:25:37 <jospoortvliet> yes ;-)
22:25:40 <helen_au> lol
22:25:43 <helen_au> oh I fail
22:25:57 <helen_au> I work for American company
22:26:24 <gnokii> no she goes not to SCALE she fly to hackfest, because its useful to have a good writer there
22:27:13 <helen_au> We have an About.com conference in USA
22:27:25 <gnokii> axo
22:28:05 <helen_au> ouch, to europe is like $1700
22:28:36 <gnokii> sydney?
22:28:47 <helen_au> yeah
22:29:14 <gnokii> what did u choose frankfurt or berlin?
22:29:29 <helen_au> there's a list of all the cities. Where is closest?
22:30:20 <gnokii> frankfurt or berlin is the same for nuremberg
22:31:08 <helen_au> frankfurt 1507
22:31:26 <gnokii> here is 850€
22:31:27 <helen_au> anyways there's a lot going on here
22:31:38 <helen_au> so I'd love to go but not sure about timing
22:31:42 <helen_au> we'll see.
22:32:18 <gnokii> ok, but make sure u can come to conference
22:33:11 <helen_au> yeah later in the year would be a better time for me to take a holiday.
22:33:17 <helen_au> My husband is starting new jobs.
22:33:28 <helen_au> kids starting highschool
22:33:45 <helen_au> its ok for young guys to fly all over the countryside!
22:34:27 <gnokii> hoho, I am not soo young
22:34:36 <helen_au> but you have a wife at home?
22:35:09 <gnokii> for what?
22:35:19 <helen_au> taking care of your kids while you fly off
22:35:27 <helen_au> and feeding the dog and cat...
22:35:42 <gnokii> have no dog and cat :D
22:36:45 <helen_au> I have a menagerie
22:37:09 <gnokii> the dog u can bring with u, he can bite jospoortvliet
22:37:13 <helen_au> lol
22:38:14 <helen_au> well instead of working I've been chatting... I'd better go get some things done and then play with my kids
22:38:19 <helen_au> I'll see you later!
22:38:27 <gnokii> oki
22:39:03 <jospoortvliet> ttyl
22:40:00 * yaloki yawns
22:44:12 <yaloki> "we can be heroes, just for one day"
23:17:09 <suseROCKs> #endmeeting