08:07:03 <manugupt1> #startmeeting Collaboration Day-PR and Social Media 08:07:03 <bugbot> Meeting started Tue Dec 21 08:07:03 2010 UTC. The chair is manugupt1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 08:07:03 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 08:07:21 <suseROCKs> oh, starting already :-) 08:07:21 <manugupt1> #chair jospoortvliet suseROCKs 08:07:21 <bugbot> Current chairs: jospoortvliet manugupt1 suseROCKs 08:07:29 <manugupt1> Its time sir 08:07:38 <suseROCKs> one more hour, I believe 08:07:45 <psankar> i guess there is one more hour 08:07:56 <suseROCKs> nothing wrong with starting up the meetbot though 08:07:59 <manugupt1> Its 1:30 if I remember correctly or is it day light savings 08:08:08 <manugupt1> The new corrections 08:08:11 <psankar> I bet jospoortvliet hasnt had his morning cereal yet 08:08:29 <suseROCKs> or his morning constipation 08:08:45 <sj> yuk 08:08:48 <sj> :) 08:09:14 <psankar> suseROCKs, If you have indian food, there are less chances of constipation ;-) 08:09:34 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I suggest you to put in some relevant info in #topic such as the link to your document 08:09:36 * psankar atlast nailed a critsit bug :) after about two weeks of debugging 08:10:07 <psankar> manugupt1, I suggest we end the meeting if we are not having something now. it will record everything needless otherwise afaik 08:10:39 <suseROCKs> so guys... (while this is being recorded)... Tell me what you REALLY think of psankar 08:10:56 * psankar runs away and hides 08:11:09 <sj> and suseROCKs * 08:11:11 * psankar looks for a nice place to run 08:11:19 <psankar> sj, now you stop me ;-) 08:11:24 <sj> :) 08:11:49 <sj> i had indian food after really long time today 08:12:00 <sj> roti, chana , rice and dal :) 08:12:08 <suseROCKs> and idli? 08:12:10 * psankar too just had the same for lunch :-) 08:12:15 <sj> no :0 08:12:16 <psankar> suseROCKs, idli is a breakfast item 08:12:18 <sj> psankar, wow :) 08:12:24 <manugupt1> Nice.. 08:12:30 <psankar> the same. roti, channa, rice and dal 08:12:32 <psankar> and some papaya 08:12:33 <suseROCKs> psankar, yeah so? You never had a craving for breakfast item in the middle of the night? :-) 08:12:49 <sj> and now i ordered some pizza . So i guess i will be fine for sometime :P 08:12:55 <psankar> suseROCKs, hehe. idly is like cereal, you never crave for it. if possible you try to avoid it ;-) 08:13:01 <sj> now=an hour or so back * 08:13:18 <manugupt1> I am ending this meeting :) now 08:13:26 <sj> its a foodie meeting 08:13:27 <sj> :) 08:13:41 <manugupt1> and thinking of changing the meet to foodie meet sj 08:13:53 <sj> hah ! 08:15:08 * sj works 8 in the morning :P and is in no mood to hit bed early tonight 09:03:55 <manugupt1> Hi all 09:04:04 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, are you awake 09:05:05 <sj> we are 5 min later 09:05:08 <sj> late* 09:05:15 <sj> what the heck is going on 09:05:21 <sj> :) 09:05:25 <manugupt1> sj, actually we are 1 hour earlier 09:05:31 <sj> really ? 09:05:33 <sj> well , :D 09:05:45 <manugupt1> Hi javier_ :) 09:05:54 <manugupt1> sj, look at this 09:05:56 <manugupt1> http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php 09:06:09 <manugupt1> Now what we need is just text smithing 09:06:21 <sj> i see 09:06:35 <manugupt1> And offcourse the 11.2 box 09:06:36 <sj> could you elaborate a bit more :) 09:07:06 <manugupt1> Ok.. this we are planning as the landing page for openSUSE 09:08:00 <sj> i see 09:08:05 <manugupt1> So this is the design and we need to add text to it and all the links and we will be good to go 09:08:39 <manugupt1> Offcourse the footer needs to be changed 09:08:40 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, you woke me up??? 09:08:51 <manugupt1> yes suseROCKs get to work 09:08:55 <manugupt1> http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php 09:09:06 <sj> i am not sure , it will be good to have a slideshow of images instead the 11.2 box image 09:09:27 <manugupt1> Yes.. but we need images for that.. transparent pngs 09:09:40 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Comments sir 09:10:03 <sj> but so manugupt1 everything sounds good ! 09:10:03 <sj> so far * 09:10:19 <sj> yep ! 09:10:22 <manugupt1> Yes.. if someone does the pngs for us I cannot do them 09:11:03 <sj> manugupt1, see the slideshow here - http://www.whitehouse.gov/ 09:11:11 <sj> 4-5 should be enough 09:11:28 <sj> and when i say images/slideshow ,i mean some catchy texts too :) 09:11:59 <manugupt1> Ok.. I get that sir as in www.fedoraproject.org 09:12:06 <sj> creating pngs is not a problem .We need some effecitve content 09:12:11 <sj> effective * 09:12:12 <sj> :) 09:12:30 <sj> yep ! 09:12:35 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, ok I added a few notes to your page 09:12:48 <manugupt1> We have loads of desktop showcases :) 09:12:55 <sj> any link ? 09:12:58 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, where 09:13:13 <suseROCKs> at the top regarding accounts 09:13:29 <sj> we desktop showcases , a 11.3 box pic which will redirect to its original page and so on 09:13:43 <sj> manugupt1, lets say 4 slideshows and it will have 09:13:48 <sj> 1) 11.3 box 09:13:55 <sj> 2) About the community 09:14:14 <sj> well thats all i can get in mind now 09:14:54 <suseROCKs> ok I'll be back in a while, guys! 09:15:30 <manugupt1> 3) on Desktop showcase 09:15:33 <manugupt1> 4) OBS 09:15:38 <sj> perfect ! 09:15:55 <sj> we can have the art-team coordinated with us , to get some cool pics and text on them 09:16:21 <manugupt1> sj, I cannot find suseROCKs comments 09:16:51 <manugupt1> Ok.. so we need to give the dimension 09:17:17 <sj> me neither 09:17:22 <sj> well okay ! 09:17:39 <sj> rlihm, any approximations ? 09:19:10 <manugupt1> Ok.. one sec 09:19:20 <manugupt1> I will look into it can you hunt for some images 09:19:56 <sj> sure 09:22:53 <sj> this for OBS - http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=File:Obs_Webclient.jpg&filetimestamp=20100520141747 ? 09:23:45 <manugupt1> Ok.. this is approximately 60% of 960px 09:23:58 <manugupt1> Looks too geeky 09:24:08 <manugupt1> Must be a crowdpuller 09:24:15 <manugupt1> but OBS is geeky 09:24:16 <sj> i see 09:24:37 <sj> well i dont think hunting down will solve it , we need to create something 09:25:22 <manugupt1> Look at this slideshow http://news.opensuse.org/ 09:25:46 <manugupt1> Check out the forth image... and it will surely rock 09:26:07 <manugupt1> rlihm, did you make these excellent choices and artwork 09:26:11 <sj> sorry 09:26:13 <manugupt1> at news.opensuse.org 09:26:18 <manugupt1> Its ok.. 09:26:32 <sj> exactly 09:26:47 <sj> i wanted something exactly the same as here - 09:26:55 <sj> the new.o.o link 09:27:07 <sj> sweet work rlihm : 09:27:09 <sj> :) * 09:27:32 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) Look at the milestone image can you see 11.4 M4 there 09:28:06 <sj> damn it 09:28:07 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) Look at the milestone image can you see 11.4 M4 there 09:28:11 <manugupt1> ;) 09:29:13 <manugupt1> Back again sj 09:29:19 <sj> yeah ! 09:29:35 <manugupt1> Damn it I lost my chair and I wont be able to make #info's 09:29:55 <manugupt1> We need jos or suserock 09:30:03 <sj> yeah 09:30:07 <sj> ping suseROCKs jospoortvliet 09:30:44 <sj> stop whatever heck you guys are doing , and get here right now :) 09:30:44 <manugupt1> Ok... we will move forward 09:30:47 <sj> jk :D 09:30:50 <sj> sure ! 09:31:11 <manugupt1> Words to describe openSUSE This should be fun right 09:31:19 <sj> yeah :) 09:31:29 <manugupt1> Mind you total words combined cannot be more than 170 characters 09:31:35 <sj> do you have anything in mind ? 09:31:37 <sj> okay ! 09:31:53 <manugupt1> sj, meta tags 09:32:07 <sj> ...sorry ? 09:32:26 <sj> no i mean words to describe openSUSE ,do you have anything in mind for that ? 09:32:47 <manugupt1> No.. but these words will be used as meta tags 09:32:55 <sj> okay ! 09:33:03 <manugupt1> So this should be simple yet powerful 09:33:26 <manugupt1> Ok.. lets start with my suggestion 09:33:28 <sj> the current one is - Official website for the community-driven, open-development version of this distro. Find information on participation, bug reporting procedure, ... 09:33:29 <sj> sure 09:33:29 <manugupt1> openSUSE 09:33:42 <manugupt1> Just words:) 09:33:46 <manugupt1> Not statements 09:34:11 <sj> example ? I am not sure if words will sound good 09:34:12 <manugupt1> openSUSE, linux, build service 09:34:26 <sj> oh i see what you getting at , sorry my bad 09:35:13 <manugupt1> :) we have our Statements' expert jospoortvliet and helen who is not here as of now 09:35:34 <sj> cool ! 09:35:52 <sj> then 09:36:02 <manugupt1> lets begin 09:36:05 <sj> openFATE , geeko (gecko ?) , 09:36:16 <manugupt1> geeko 09:36:21 <manugupt1> SUSE 09:36:47 <yaloki> morning 09:36:50 <sj> suse studio 09:36:54 <sj> morning yaloki 09:36:55 <manugupt1> morning yaloki 09:37:18 <sj> edu-life 09:37:27 <sj> openSUSE gnome-kde 09:37:37 <sj> LXDE and XFCE 09:37:46 <manugupt1> opensuse medical 09:37:48 <sj> and Medical 09:37:48 <yaloki> playing a game? :) 09:37:50 <sj> yep 09:37:54 <sj> yaloki, the meta tag game :) 09:38:01 <yaloki> umm... 09:38:09 <sj> yaloki, the one with more number , wins:) 09:38:19 <yaloki> tumbleweed 09:38:21 <yaloki> yast 09:38:23 <manugupt1> Yes.. :) yaloki describe openSUSE with the best 09:38:31 <yaloki> the people 09:38:38 <yaloki> friends 09:38:43 <yaloki> fun 09:38:44 <yaloki> :D 09:38:53 <sj> openSUSE package , download, software 09:38:58 <manugupt1> evergreen 09:39:00 <psankar> MSFT ;-) 09:39:02 <manugupt1> sj, that wont help 09:39:09 <sj> yeah :P 09:39:12 <yaloki> mm 09:39:13 <sj> MSFT ? 09:39:16 <yaloki> it's very important though 09:39:23 <manugupt1> psankar, lols.. 09:39:36 <yaloki> sj, manugupt1: but it's very difficult to describe the "mix and match" we have through the OBS repositories in one or two catchy words :) 09:39:37 <psankar> sj, Microsoft. someone always brings it. so, me as well :-) 09:39:39 <sj> zypp 09:39:58 <yaloki> customize 09:40:08 <manugupt1> yaloki, meta tag ketword character limit is 170 09:40:09 <sj> yaloki, i see what you getting at 09:40:15 <sj> psankar, :) 09:40:20 <yaloki> mix-and-match then :P 09:40:28 <HeliosReds_> have 09:40:29 <HeliosReds_> a 09:40:31 <HeliosReds_> lot 09:40:32 <manugupt1> Ok.. I did not 09:40:32 <HeliosReds_> of 09:40:34 <HeliosReds_> fun 09:40:43 <yaloki> HeliosReds_-is-a-cheater :D 09:40:47 <manugupt1> Lols.. HeliosReds :) Good morning 09:41:04 <HeliosReds_> Morning everone! 09:41:21 <sj> morning 09:41:31 <HeliosReds_> I'm already in evening, though. ;-) 09:41:35 <manugupt1> Evergreen 09:41:47 <manugupt1> community 09:42:00 <sj> so manugupt1 did you get something to put in the list/book ? 09:42:05 <manugupt1> Yes 09:42:16 <manugupt1> Thats why I lagged 09:42:27 <manugupt1> The words so far are openSUSE 09:42:27 <manugupt1> linux 09:42:27 <manugupt1> build service 09:42:27 <manugupt1> geeko 09:42:27 <manugupt1> openFATE 09:42:28 <manugupt1> SUSE 09:42:30 <manugupt1> edu-life 09:42:32 <manugupt1> gnome 09:42:34 <manugupt1> kde 09:42:36 <manugupt1> suse studio 09:42:38 <manugupt1> medical 09:42:40 <manugupt1> tumbleweed 09:42:44 <manugupt1> yast 09:42:46 <manugupt1> evergreen 09:42:48 <manugupt1> people 09:42:50 <manugupt1> friends 09:42:52 <manugupt1> community 09:42:54 <manugupt1> OBS 09:43:01 <manugupt1> lxde 09:43:03 <manugupt1> xfce 09:43:05 <manugupt1> smeegol 09:43:09 <yaloki> board, elections 09:43:16 <HeliosReds_> osc 09:43:19 <yaloki> (other projects cannot elect their board members :)) 09:43:27 <manugupt1> yaloki, not reqd 09:43:30 <sj> open source 09:43:48 <HeliosReds_> SuSEconfig 09:44:12 <manugupt1> Ok we are at 200 characters now 09:44:33 <manugupt1> So lets strike it to 170 characters I hate that 09:44:43 <manugupt1> sj, wins 09:44:53 <manugupt1> yaloki, is the runner up 09:44:55 <sj> hah :) 09:45:03 * yaloki hands sj a meta cookie 09:45:11 <manugupt1> HeliosReds, was late but made it till the end :) 09:45:16 * sj is overwhelmed 09:45:17 <sj> :) 09:45:52 <manugupt1> So what few words can we remove sj and sir yaloki 09:46:03 <rlihm> sj/manugupt1: sorry, was not at my desk. what did I miss? 09:46:15 <yaloki> manugupt1: remove "people" if we keep "friends" 09:46:21 <manugupt1> rlihm, the news.opensuse.org did you do the image selection 09:46:31 <yaloki> rlihm: manugupt1 just got nikkid 09:46:33 <sj> yaloki, +1 09:46:43 <rlihm> :-D 09:46:50 <rlihm> manugupt1: in the slideshow? 09:46:51 <rlihm> no 09:47:23 <sj> rlihm, do you know the dimension of the box here (wchich shows 11.2 box) - suseware.com/trial/extended.php ? 09:47:25 <rlihm> manugupt1: I guess henne picked the pix 09:47:32 <manugupt1> ok.. we need a slideshow for the front page.. :) 09:47:35 <sj> cool , we got the man :) 09:47:56 <yaloki> if the slideshow doesn't include it already, it really should have the group photo we did at the conference 09:47:56 <sj> rlihm, yeah ! . I was wondering if we can have the same (as the news.o.o) for the frontpage 09:48:01 <yaloki> for the "people" part :) 09:48:06 <sj> yaloki, +1 :) 09:48:12 <rlihm> manugupt1/sj: the place with the box in my mockup is for a slideshow 09:48:18 <manugupt1> So.. henne makes the selection right 09:48:19 <sj> we should try to make as formal and as official as possible 09:48:27 <sj> rlihm, perfect ;) 09:48:32 <manugupt1> We were all thinking along the same lines :) 09:48:36 <sj> manugupt1, we should ask him first :) 09:48:37 <rlihm> :-) 09:48:49 <yaloki> rlihm: what mockup? gotalink? 09:48:55 <rlihm> the display-box is currently 450px height 09:48:59 <manugupt1> yaloki, http://suseware.com/trial/extended.php 09:49:07 <rlihm> and 520px width 09:49:13 <sj> i think yaloki meant the mockup for slideshow 09:49:20 <sj> i am curious too 09:49:26 <sj> rlihm, thanks for the dimensions :) 09:49:27 <rlihm> yaloki: http://static.opensuse.org/themes/bento/extended.html 09:49:33 <rlihm> sj: welcome :-) 09:49:48 <yaloki> rlihm: nice :) 09:49:55 <manugupt1> rlihm, do you remember them 09:50:19 <manugupt1> the dimensions 09:50:20 <rlihm> manugupt1: what do i remember? 09:50:22 <rlihm> ah ... 09:50:31 <rlihm> I just took a look in the css 09:50:47 <gnokii> rlihm: u are old, u remember nothing :D 09:50:59 <manugupt1> Because the css is container_16 grid_9 right and they are all in percentage 09:51:08 <manugupt1> container_16 is 960px 09:51:39 <manugupt1> Or did I miss something rlihm 09:51:48 <rlihm> manugupt1: thats right 09:52:04 <rlihm> if you look with e.g. firebug at the element you get the css for it 09:52:25 <rlihm> manugupt1: it has a .grid_9 09:52:31 <rlihm> that are 520px :-) 09:53:07 <rlihm> but we can change it. It just fit to the image i had/have in my head 09:53:08 <rlihm> :-) 09:53:18 <manugupt1> Ok..:) 09:53:21 <sj> and i think we should go with that :) 09:53:24 <yaloki> you don't want to know about the pictures _I_ have in my head... 09:53:31 <rlihm> :-D 09:53:34 <sj> yaloki, nobody wants to know 09:53:38 <sj> hah :) 09:53:42 <sj> jk ! 09:54:17 <yaloki> sj: it involves you, and a goat 09:54:18 <yaloki> :D 09:54:30 <yaloki> manugupt1: so what's the purpose of that meta-tag thingy? 09:54:34 <sj> wow ! . i am "so" impressed :) 09:54:42 <yaloki> manugupt1: wanna make a word cloud ? 09:54:50 <sj> wordle ? 09:54:52 <manugupt1> yaloki, to insert into the site <meta keywords> yes something like that 09:54:55 <yaloki> http://www.wordle.net/ 09:55:11 <sj> yep 09:55:22 <sj> so manugupt1 are you taking care of SEO ? 09:55:37 <manugupt1> As <meta tags are missing at places > yaloki No.. but I am adding wherever I can 09:55:48 <gnokii> fuck virtualbox 09:55:59 <sj> ....? 09:56:07 <rlihm> gnokii: tssssss 09:56:11 <sj> it crashes at times 09:57:21 <sj> so lets move ahead , manugupt1 ? ;) 09:57:35 <manugupt1> Yes.. sir.. 09:58:16 <manugupt1> One sec please 09:58:23 <sj> take your time :) 09:58:32 <sj> in meanwhile i wanna say something 09:58:42 <manugupt1> Yes... fire it 09:59:10 <sj> i have a feeling that suseROCKs wont show before the sunrise :) 09:59:27 <sj> okay, you can continue :). I was trying to ping him :) 09:59:57 <manugupt1> I am trying to create a woordle and save it to their public gallery 10:00:08 <manugupt1> but I got Java issues 10:00:10 <yaloki> manugupt1, sj: http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/2912150/openSUSE 10:00:39 <sj> looks sweet 10:00:43 <sj> manugupt1, get openjdk 10:00:54 <manugupt1> sj, have both iof them ;) 10:01:14 <sj> well! i am not sure then . shift to chrome :) 10:01:17 <yaloki> sj: what did you want to say? 10:01:35 <sj> yaloki, oh nothing , just the suseROCKs thingee :) 10:01:44 <manugupt1> Lols.. I am on chrome 10:01:57 <manugupt1> sj, are we determined to pester suseROCKs 10:02:07 <sj> yaloki, the link you just gave for wordle. Is it a test ? 10:02:17 <yaloki> sj: no, it's there 10:02:27 <sj> manugupt1, no was just filling up the gap (when you needed sometime :) 10:02:30 <sj> okay ! 10:02:39 <yaloki> sj: but I'm sure there must be something with jquery to do the same ^^ 10:02:49 <sj> same here 10:02:59 <sj> i will see if i can find something 10:03:21 <yaloki> as much as I <3 java, a java applet isn't exactly the best thing to include on a page ^^ 10:03:45 <yaloki> ah, ok, one can also get a static image 10:04:02 <yaloki> but it's tiny... ¬¬ http://www.wordle.net/thumb/wrdl/2912150/openSUSE 10:04:06 <sj> yaloki, yep and like this - http://noupe.com/examples/tagcloud/tag-cloud.html 10:04:32 <yaloki> sure, there are tons of (much better than that) tag cloud scripts 10:04:46 <suseROCKs> ok I'm here... what's everyon dissing on me about :-) 10:04:49 <sj> was an example :) 10:05:08 <sj> damn look whos here to spoil meeting " suseROCKs " 10:05:12 <sj> :P 10:05:13 * sj runs 10:05:28 <yaloki> do we have a wiki page or piwatepad or something to keep track of this ? 10:05:31 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 10:05:46 <manugupt1> yaloki, we have 10:05:48 <sj> i am not sure , manugupt1 might be knowing 10:05:49 <suseROCKs> so what topic are we focusing on atm? 10:05:49 * yaloki proposes a new private joke: every time someone says pirate pad or pastes a pirate pad URL, everyone must say arrrrrrrrrrr 10:05:50 <manugupt1> at the top 10:06:01 <sj> suseROCKs, meta tags 10:06:04 <yaloki> manugupt1: ah, in topic, okay, purrrrfect 10:06:20 <sj> yaloki, hah :) 10:06:21 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, did you get up 10:06:26 <suseROCKs> meta tags in relation to? 10:06:39 <yaloki> suseROCKs: just say pirate pad 10:06:44 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I've been up, but trying to get things ready before the workers come for remodeling today :-( 10:06:50 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, SEO 10:07:19 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, :) I could not find your comments anywhere 10:07:22 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, ok and has yaloki solved all our problems yet? 10:07:40 <manugupt1> yaloki, was a runner up sj won 10:08:01 * yaloki throws a bomb into the room... problem solved :D 10:08:07 * suseROCKs scrolls up to read how yaloki came in second. This is a first! 10:08:20 <yaloki> suseROCKs: no, works with my gf too 10:08:31 <manugupt1> yaloki, there is a jquery plugin 10:08:46 <sj> manugupt1, are we using wordpress ? 10:08:53 <manugupt1> sj, where 10:08:55 <sj> i see wp-content in the source code ? 10:09:00 <sj> i am not sure 10:09:15 <sj> i meant , in which all places are we using * 10:09:16 * yaloki welcomes kkemenczy 10:09:45 <manugupt1> sj, we use wordpress at lizards, news afailk 10:09:51 <yaloki> yes 10:09:55 <yaloki> it's wordpress 10:10:00 <sj> okay ! 10:10:03 <manugupt1> Ok.. what is wordpress 10:10:16 <sj> :) 10:10:19 <yaloki> buggy 10:10:21 <yaloki> evil 10:10:23 <yaloki> nightmare 10:10:25 <yaloki> :) 10:10:35 <manugupt1> I mean which subdomain are you talking about 10:11:09 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, where are your comments 10:11:49 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, in the piratepad? 10:11:50 <gnokii> and a new download plz, uurgh 10:12:06 <manugupt1> At this link http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia 10:12:07 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 10:12:14 <suseROCKs> just look at the information I added to the preparation section, manugupt1 10:12:19 <sj> yaloki, :) 10:12:32 <yaloki> well it's only funny if at least 2-3 people do it 10:13:17 <suseROCKs> so are you still discussing metatags now? 10:13:29 <sj> now sure 10:13:35 <sj> so whats the conclusion 10:13:47 <sj> we go with jquery-dynacloud or wordle ? 10:13:56 <sj> now=not * 10:14:09 <manugupt1> sj, We do not go anywhere now ;) 10:14:17 <suseROCKs> so I'm curious, I see everyone submitting their ideas for metatags... what will be the strategy for selecting the ones that will boost traffic? 10:14:18 <manugupt1> But the words are there 10:14:51 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, sj seems to have drifted away... also at this moment I wish to have some rather than having none 10:15:04 <manugupt1> the word list here is as follows 10:15:05 <manugupt1> openSUSE 10:15:06 <manugupt1> linux 10:15:06 <manugupt1> build service 10:15:06 <manugupt1> geeko 10:15:06 <manugupt1> openFATE 10:15:07 <manugupt1> SUSE 10:15:09 <manugupt1> edu-life 10:15:11 <manugupt1> gnome 10:15:15 <manugupt1> kde 10:15:17 <manugupt1> suse studio 10:15:19 <manugupt1> medical 10:15:21 <manugupt1> tumbleweed 10:15:23 <manugupt1> yast 10:15:25 <manugupt1> evergreen 10:15:27 <manugupt1> friends 10:15:29 <manugupt1> community 10:15:31 <manugupt1> OBS 10:15:33 <manugupt1> lxde 10:15:35 <manugupt1> xfce 10:15:38 <manugupt1> smeegol 10:15:39 <manugupt1> osc 10:15:41 <manugupt1> open source 10:15:42 <suseROCKs> are we looking at what other projects use as meta tags? 10:15:57 <manugupt1> What do you mean? 10:16:05 <manugupt1> I did not get you 10:16:06 <sj> suseROCKs, not yet 10:16:11 <suseROCKs> a lot of those words are very either specific to openSUSE or very generic 10:16:42 <manugupt1> So what do you suggest 10:16:56 <suseROCKs> so if we're thinking of something like where people are going to use a search engine to find a solution to a problem... let's just throw out MySQL as an example.... what would have made them see openSUSE at the top of the index list? 10:17:34 <suseROCKs> in addition to the age-old content-needs-to-exist question :-) 10:18:34 <manugupt1> Right.. so what do we do sir 10:19:04 <suseROCKs> we need to come up with a huge list of words, and then narrow it down to 20 10:19:24 <sj> i have a list of tags , fedora is using 10:19:45 <suseROCKs> let's hear, sj 10:20:09 <sj> according to the results 10:20:13 <sj> "These are the keywords found on the web page. (Search engines are more likely to list this page as a good result for these keywords.)" 10:20:25 <sj> fedora - 49 - 5.79% 10:20:25 <sj> hat - 16 - 1.89% 10:20:25 <sj> pro - 12 - 1.42% 10:20:25 <sj> free - 12 - 1.42% 10:20:25 <sj> more - 12 - 1.42% 10:20:26 <sj> learn - 10 - 1.18% 10:20:28 <sj> community - 10 - 1.18% 10:20:30 <sj> red - 8 - 0.94% 10:20:32 <sj> software - 8 - 0.94% 10:20:34 <sj> get - 7 - 0.83% 10:20:36 <sj> feature - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:38 <sj> rom - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:40 <sj> project - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:42 <sj> design - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:44 <sj> download - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:48 <sj> end - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:50 <sj> help - 6 - 0.71% 10:20:52 <sj> freedom - 5 - 0.59% 10:20:54 <sj> linux - 5 - 0.59% 10:20:56 <sj> features - 5 - 0.59% 10:20:58 <sj> eric - 5 - 0.59% 10:21:00 <sj> inc - 5 - 0.59% 10:21:02 <sj> system - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:04 <sj> amateur - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:08 <sj> work - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:08 <sj> document - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:10 <sj> ever - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:12 <sj> wide - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:14 <sj> radio - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:18 <sj> friends - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:20 <sj> world - 4 - 0.47% 10:21:22 <sj> operating - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:24 <sj> share - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:26 <sj> benefit - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:28 <sj> people - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:30 <sj> source - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:32 <sj> documentation - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:33 <sj> new - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:35 <sj> best - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:37 <sj> been - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:39 <sj> open - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:41 <sj> full - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:43 <sj> worldwide - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:47 <sj> join - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:49 <sj> built - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:51 <sj> sponsor - 3 - 0.35% 10:21:53 <sj> see - 2 - 0.24% 10:21:55 <sj> north - 2 - 0.24% 10:21:57 <sj> power - 2 - 0.24% 10:21:58 <suseROCKs> wait 10:22:00 <suseROCKs> stop :-D 10:22:01 <sj> install - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:03 <sj> printing - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:05 <sj> printer - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:07 <sj> driver - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:09 <sj> bit - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:11 <sj> correct - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:13 <sj> only - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:16 <manugupt1> I just generated 4000 words for openSUSE 10:22:17 <sj> tech - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:19 <sj> requirements - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:21 <sj> fight - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:23 <sj> content - 2 - 0.24% 10:22:24 <manugupt1> Does anyone need that too :) 10:22:25 <sj> list - 2 - 0.24% 10:26:41 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, what's the "rhel5" thing all about on your server? :-) 10:27:05 <manugupt1> This is the total list I could see the ice cream too 10:28:06 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, now we have a list of words 10:28:23 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, ok so according to this, png is the second most popular keyword? 10:28:37 <manugupt1> Yes.. 10:29:37 <manugupt1> A better approximate would be the other csv 10:29:41 <suseROCKs> I think this list is misleading in some ways because it gathers from a variety of usages to our infrastructure 10:29:56 <suseROCKs> BUT... it still helps us to be able to scan through and cull the ones we think could be relevant 10:30:40 <manugupt1> yes 10:31:02 <manugupt1> so should we start scanning them 10:31:25 <suseROCKs> also think about the kind of users we want to attract to openSUSE 10:31:42 <suseROCKs> what are they most likely to be looking for when they google 10:31:47 * manugupt1 wants to attract everyone 10:31:56 <suseROCKs> not realistic 10:32:21 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, for example, at openSUSE, we target the technical user 10:32:40 <suseROCKs> so... what keywords fit into that kind of person? 10:32:42 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, yes.. specialy IT professional that just rings a bell for me 10:32:55 <suseROCKs> there ya go 10:33:22 <suseROCKs> Now you have a focus to help guide you through the sorting 10:34:01 <suseROCKs> you could also think about just setting up a few columns that describe types of users, and under each column put in the relevant keywords 10:34:20 <suseROCKs> then... see how they all mesh together. Possibly you'd find a keyword that fits multiple columns 10:34:41 <suseROCKs> and that would be a clue (I think) that its a strong keyword 10:34:54 <yaloki> for developers... 10:35:01 <yaloki> when I think of a very, very common scenario 10:35:27 <yaloki> developer with windows background, developing in java/php/RoR/django/..., and deploying on linux 10:35:31 <suseROCKs> basements? :-) 10:35:45 <yaloki> then openSUSE offers the same platform as the deployment platform 10:35:53 <yaloki> but with additional ease of use, both for the desktop (kde, gnome, ...) 10:36:02 <yaloki> and for the administration of the server aspects (yast) 10:36:21 <yaloki> where we're currently lacking, and which would also be a strong point, is packages for those developer tools and frameworks 10:36:47 <yaloki> (eclipse, netbeans, django, php frameworks, some java packages, ...) 10:37:09 <gnokii> yaloki: loves java 10:37:09 <yaloki> I can imagine that that edge might indeed be appealing to developers 10:37:26 <yaloki> gnokii: more than 50% of the applications developed on this planet are being done so in java 10:37:42 <suseROCKs> yaloki, so you're suggesting find words that speak to that edge, right? 10:38:04 <yaloki> suseROCKs: I'm just saying that as a general "vector" of approach in terms of marketing 10:38:10 <suseROCKs> and the other 50% are done while *having* a cup of java :-) 10:38:26 <yaloki> if we're still taking about tags/words then, yeah maybe, but it's difficult to catch in a couple of words 10:38:32 <suseROCKs> yaloki, well I think you're giving some good insights into that. 10:38:56 <suseROCKs> absolutely. Which is why I think building a big list of words and then narrowing down will help significantly 10:39:03 <yaloki> the key aspect here is that deployment is done on linux in >90% of cases 10:39:09 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, does all that make sense now? 10:39:47 <yaloki> and giving developers the opportunity of developing on the same or similar platform as the deployment platform is clearly a plus 10:42:18 <yaloki> like being able to install and configure apache easily from yast 10:43:46 <manugupt1> Ok... 10:44:55 <manugupt1> I get it somewhat 10:45:58 <sj> sorry guys ! I am gonna get some rest now ! 10:46:09 <manugupt1> good night sj 10:46:30 <sj> :) ! . should be awake soon . so morning :) 10:47:09 <suseROCKs> sj, I'm glad you came around. Hoping to see more of you soon 10:47:14 <jospoortvliet> gooooood morning!!!! 10:47:17 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: good night 10:47:19 <jospoortvliet> thanks :D 10:47:34 <jospoortvliet> srry for being late 10:47:36 <manugupt1> Bye.. jospoortvliet :) 10:47:37 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, tell me where you see the breakdown in confusion 10:47:42 <jospoortvliet> had to catch up to some sleep 10:47:48 <suseROCKs> and heeeeeeeeeere's jospoortvliet! 10:47:48 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en# 10:48:18 <manugupt1> Thats how I see the discussion 10:48:28 <izabelvalverde> Hello guys 10:48:29 <manugupt1> And heres izabelvalverde too 10:48:39 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I think that's a good start 10:48:55 <suseROCKs> ok, this is going to cause suspicion with jospoortvliet AND izabelvalverde waking up at the same time here :-) 10:48:56 <izabelvalverde> hi... better later than never 10:49:00 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: morning 10:49:01 <jospoortvliet> hehe 10:49:13 <izabelvalverde> morning 10:49:19 <suseROCKs> this is how rumors get started :-D 10:49:25 <yaloki> :) 10:49:38 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: no it makes sense, us waking up at same time, we're both in brazilian time zone - her literally, me only psychologically :D 10:49:39 <izabelvalverde> :D 10:49:40 <suseROCKs> Good Morning Ms. izabelvalverde 10:49:59 <izabelvalverde> Good morning Mr. suseROCKs 10:50:04 <jospoortvliet> lol 10:50:14 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, I know the feeling. I haven't shaken off the Brasilian timezone yet either, and my wallet is still filled with Reais 10:50:37 <izabelvalverde> send to me :-D 10:51:02 * yaloki sends some curry to suseROCKs 10:51:06 <yaloki> suseROCKs: for the rice 10:51:09 <suseROCKs> izabelvalverde, It's only about $R200. What can you possibly do with that? :-D 10:51:12 <suseROCKs> yaloki, arroz 10:51:55 <izabelvalverde> suseROCKs I can spend in caipirinhas next week :-D 10:52:12 <suseROCKs> no need. Carlos makes pretty good ones 10:52:39 <suseROCKs> He won't tell me the secret ingredient though. F*da-se! 10:52:39 <yaloki> please show some respect, it's full of snow and -10 over here :P 10:52:46 <izabelvalverde> :-D 10:52:58 <suseROCKs> -2C here and we had a pretty decent snow dump here as well. 10:53:03 <yaloki> suseROCKs: you don't want to know... :) 10:53:03 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: u drink caipi? igitt 10:53:06 <manugupt1> I am enjoying 20 C in India :D 10:53:06 <izabelvalverde> yaloki I would exchange with you 10:53:20 <manugupt1> I would not iza 10:53:37 <izabelvalverde> I am not enjoying 35 C :( 10:53:53 * yaloki pulls the waiter and orders a mojito 10:54:23 <yaloki> actually a grog or an irish coffee would be better suited 10:54:34 <yaloki> hmm... irish coffee... 10:55:14 <yaloki> ok, back to marketing 10:55:15 <izabelvalverde> hi gnokii not my favorite but if Carlos can do I can drink :-D 10:55:18 <yaloki> so, 11.4 or 12.0 ? :D 10:56:01 <manugupt1> yaloki, lols.. 10:56:17 * gnokii brings izabelvalverde a mojito 10:56:45 <manugupt1> Good morning helen_au :) 10:56:50 <gnokii> huhu helen_au 10:57:07 <helen_au> goodevening manugupt1 , gnokii 10:57:10 <helen_au> hi all 10:57:16 <yaloki> helen_au: hi there 10:57:16 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, you there :) 10:57:24 <manugupt1> Ok.. its evening for you too :) 10:57:36 <manugupt1> Same here in India what time zone are you in +5:30 10:57:41 <gnokii> helen_au: left u some sentence on piratepad 10:57:53 <helen_au> yes I'm just popping in briefly. I'm GMT +10 10:58:15 <helen_au> cool thanks gnokii 10:58:27 <manugupt1> ok.. 10:58:31 <yaloki> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 10:58:51 <manugupt1> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 10:59:01 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, are you there 10:59:02 <yaloki> :D 10:59:24 <helen_au> gnokii, ok sure I see re community 10:59:57 <helen_au> hey I don't want to suggest putting contstraints on design ideas, I know sometimes with creativity ideas just flow 11:00:09 <helen_au> but it would be helpful to maybe organize ideas a little bit 11:00:20 <helen_au> that's a couple of things I've tried to write with wrong idea based on image 11:00:25 <gnokii> helen_au: what u mean with that? 11:00:25 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, don't bother jospoortvliet just yet. he just woke up. You know us men have to have a long morning pee before we can do anything :-) 11:00:41 <yaloki> manugupt1: he's in the shower 11:00:44 <helen_au> I would say make a list of words/concepts first, but i know often we don't like to work that way 11:00:47 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: I am catching up to thread 11:00:49 <jospoortvliet> sorry 11:00:53 <jospoortvliet> one more minute :D 11:01:07 * manugupt1 thinks yaloki and suseROCKs are watching jos nikked 11:01:15 <helen_au> gnokii, you see what I mean - just to make sure I have right idea when I start writing? 11:01:29 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: and you know I don't shower 11:01:29 <suseROCKs> helen_au, Actually, manugupt1 is working on a grand master list of keywords for meta tags. It might end up being helpful for what you're working on too 11:01:32 <helen_au> so once you have your idea and image, make a clear note about it? 11:01:35 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I'm clean by myself 11:01:43 <jospoortvliet> good evening helen_au 11:01:45 <jospoortvliet> :D 11:01:46 <helen_au> suseROCKs, that sounds like a great idea 11:01:48 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I'm not into watching men nekkid. But damn, that jospoortvliet is CUUUUUUUUTE! 11:01:50 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, hi! 11:02:04 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: so wazzup! 11:02:07 <helen_au> bwahaha 11:02:18 <jospoortvliet> I know some words for the list of keywords if you want them :D 11:02:31 <manugupt1> helen_au, if you need that list its http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia 11:02:31 <helen_au> not that sort of words 11:02:34 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: had jospoortvliet and suseROCKs same room in brazil? 11:02:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, I have a lot of keywords ;) 11:02:50 <manugupt1> still jospoortvliet fire out 11:02:51 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: no I shared with someone else : 11:02:54 <jospoortvliet> duh 11:03:18 <izabelvalverde> :-D gnokii answered already 11:03:20 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: power, flexibility, configurability, openness, freedom, productivity 11:03:24 <jospoortvliet> things based on our strategy 11:03:25 <jospoortvliet> ... 11:03:56 <helen_au> that's a really useful idea 11:04:04 <manugupt1> add security 11:04:14 <helen_au> stability 11:05:07 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: why then he think u are cute, I mean helen_au or izabelvalverde are cute, but u are a man u cant be cute 11:05:14 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup good 11:05:15 <helen_au> with the posters, the issue for me was that I thought they were about one thing (security, or language) when they were about another (openness, community contact) 11:05:23 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I keep saying that... 11:05:27 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 11:05:31 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet is a special case. He's an exception to the rule :-D 11:05:31 <helen_au> gnokii, men can too be cute. 11:05:40 <helen_au> dunno about that face fuzz though. 11:05:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, be careful earlier it was michl 11:05:47 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: and that's what my gf keeps saying 11:05:51 <jospoortvliet> we'll never agree on that one 11:05:55 <helen_au> lol 11:05:57 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: LOL 11:06:05 <helen_au> my husband has a moustache, I've forbidden him to shave it 11:06:21 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: lol I know that one, my gf doesn't want me to shave either... 11:06:28 <jospoortvliet> in my face, that is 11:06:32 <jospoortvliet> *too much info* 11:06:33 <yaloki> :) 11:06:38 <yaloki> heheheh 11:06:41 <helen_au> I can't wait till he's out of the army, grows a full beard. 11:06:46 <helen_au> super handsome 11:06:51 <helen_au> anyway that's enough of that... 11:07:06 <helen_au> I don't have a stack of time thisevening so is there any key points I should be looking at right now? 11:07:15 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: he, funny how girls think different about that - my ex wanted me to shave daily... 11:07:25 <gnokii> helen_au: full beard isnt forbidden 11:07:32 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, well you just have to keep your gal happy :) 11:07:36 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: the writing stuff in the etherpad is probably right up your alley :D 11:07:42 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: hehe indeed 11:08:01 <suseROCKs> I have a beard! I'm just sayin' 11:08:02 <helen_au> gnokii, in Australian army it is, unless you are a Pioneer Sergeant and there's only one of them, or on special mission 11:08:17 <gnokii> aah old fashioned 11:08:25 <helen_au> there's an old saying "a kiss without a moustache is like food without salt" 11:08:37 <izabelvalverde> :-D 11:08:37 <jospoortvliet> btw loving http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j95HbhTl60k 11:08:53 * gnokii <--- and many other had full beard in afghanistan, the mudjaheddin trust man with beard more 11:09:13 <helen_au> yes the guys over there grow beards. 11:09:33 <helen_au> in Sudan he grew handlebar moustache since they didn't know Australian dress code (short) 11:09:55 <jospoortvliet> darn that youtube crashes firefox for me sorry if it does for anyone else, not my intention :D 11:10:48 <gnokii> its not firefox its KDE what crashes 11:11:04 <helen_au> one thing I want to mention - all the funny spelling of acronyms - is a PITA 11:11:28 <helen_au> Education LIFE, particularly. 11:11:31 <izabelvalverde> btw yesterday I tried to run in KDE and got totally lost 11:11:37 <helen_au> YAST is probably too late to change.... 11:12:00 * helen_au waves at izabel 11:12:07 <helen_au> run in KDE? 11:12:28 <suseROCKs> you can't run in KDE. You have to wear a lot of protective clothing and that makes it too hard to run 11:12:30 * suseROCKs ducks 11:12:36 <izabelvalverde> hi helen_au 11:12:57 <izabelvalverde> sorry... tried to use KDE in my desktop 11:13:05 <helen_au> lolz @ suseROCKs oh the new KDE is so pretty 11:13:22 <izabelvalverde> I was reinstall a machine but I gave up and turned back to GNOME :-D 11:13:30 <helen_au> Is it supposed to not have a toolbar? I discovered adding a launcher widget 11:13:46 <manugupt1> KDE sucks for Intel 11:13:46 <helen_au> did you find the widgets? 11:13:58 <manugupt1> You need to turn of your compositing and stuff 11:14:15 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: well actually works fine here on my GMA950... better WITH compositing 11:14:18 <helen_au> hmm. Pretty sure I was running defaults, will have to have a look. 11:14:24 <jospoortvliet> but they had a big issue in the kernel released with 11.3 11:14:26 <yaloki> manugupt1: hah, just wait for unity ;) 11:14:30 <helen_au> I couldn't get Catalyst to play with it 11:14:30 <jospoortvliet> so you need a newer kernel and xorg for it to work 11:14:34 <jospoortvliet> stupid intel drivers... 11:14:57 <suseROCKs> anyway, manugupt1 back to your spreadsheet. You've got a good start on the keywords... 11:15:10 <manugupt1> Yes.. sir 11:15:10 <gnokii> I tried KDE4 once, there was a thing "add activity" but no activity was showed after I clicked 11:15:12 <suseROCKs> Now you might want to think of keywords that describe those keywords too and add to the list. 11:15:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, for example, you have banshee listed there. A keyword for that obviously is "music" 11:16:02 <izabelvalverde> jospoortvliet I tried for Sandro, Cami, Tomaz and you :-) 11:16:49 <helen_au> so you're looking at SEO keywords? 11:16:59 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: btw, did I ever tell you how happy I am that you joined the project ? 11:17:25 <suseROCKs> helen_au, yup 11:17:28 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: no, not realy, why, you were looking for someone dumb enough to control ;-) 11:17:35 <yaloki> I didn't? 11:17:36 <yaloki> good 11:17:37 <yaloki> hahahahaah 11:17:56 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: sweet ;-)_ 11:18:04 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: amazing I didn't. well, then: I'm very happy that you've joined the project 11:18:28 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: but don't bother, just Have Fun (TM) for openSUSE and KDE vs GNOME vs LXDE vs MeeGo vs XFCE vs Unity vs whatever doesn't matter 11:18:43 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: well you make me blush, thank you... 11:18:49 <yaloki> because window maker is the only true one 11:19:02 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: note that as a dutch person I can only handle about 2 compliments a day so thread careful from here on 11:19:19 <yaloki> hm 11:19:42 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: you can imagine that, obviously, now I _totally_ want to know what happens once it overflows :D 11:19:52 <helen_au> is KDE our current default? 11:20:09 <gnokii> no 11:20:12 <izabelvalverde> jospoortvliet wasn't so fun yesterday when my boss called a report later after that :-D 11:20:24 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, have a look again 11:20:37 <manugupt1> helen_au, we dont have a default 11:20:49 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, nice! 11:20:54 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: so u get many problems then with UCA because mandriva has only KDE 11:20:58 <helen_au> Oh ok. (I have to learn to pay attention when I run an install) 11:21:06 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, actually yes we do. KDE is the default for openSUSE since 11.2 11:21:26 <izabelvalverde> gnokii mandriva will come only on the next order 11:21:31 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, we are trying to ward that off KDE is selected because we have to select one 11:21:36 <izabelvalverde> now is metasys :D 11:21:42 <manugupt1> That my opinion 11:21:43 <helen_au> Reason being is every time I run a distro, every time there's a new release, I agonize about desktops. I think for a lot of people it's actually quite painful to have to choose! 11:21:58 <helen_au> They both have really nice things (as does LXDE/XFCE for lightweights) 11:22:09 <yaloki> helen_au: yeah, we had that discussion very often 11:22:15 <helen_au> so CHOICE while nice, is sometimes a negative! You have to un-choose things.... 11:22:20 <yaloki> helen_au: also, it is not possible to give enough information for people to make an educated guess 11:22:32 <yaloki> helen_au: but our focus is on people who are willing to learn, so... 11:22:34 <helen_au> I wondered cos often it's a 'VERSUS' discussion, which is better... 11:22:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, so unchoose because its you who are righting 11:22:40 <helen_au> but I like them both and hate choosing 11:22:45 <yaloki> choice is more important than simplicity 11:22:50 <helen_au> I agree 11:22:53 <helen_au> choice is important 11:23:00 <manugupt1> yaloki, for you and us :) but for openSUSE guys 11:23:06 <helen_au> but I think it would be useful to find clearer distinctions 11:23:07 <manugupt1> Sorry for ubuntu guys 11:23:13 <yaloki> manugupt1: check the strategy :) 11:23:21 <helen_au> I've yet to see a "gnome vs kde" article that really helps me make a choice 11:23:24 <suseROCKs> helen_au, that was the argument made in favor of having an actual default (which is now KDE) vs. the old days when we didn't have a default. However.... 11:23:46 <gnokii> we havent a default 11:23:52 <suseROCKs> in our market research for the strategy discussion what we found out is that most of the openSUSE users are power/technical users, and thus are highly capable of making their own choices. 11:23:53 <helen_au> of course they are always changing now too... can't wait to see new Gnome too.... 11:24:12 <helen_au> suseROCKs, ok that's useful to know. 11:24:19 <manugupt1> Ok.. suseROCKs how do we proceed 11:24:37 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, On the spreadsheet you mean? 11:24:44 <manugupt1> yes.. 11:25:09 <suseROCKs> well you said you found 4000 words from the webmaster csv. Have you gone through them to see what's relevant in each category? 11:25:32 <suseROCKs> the idea is to build a big list in each column and then be able to narrow them down to most fitting. 11:25:58 <suseROCKs> Then, look at common words that exist in each category, which in my opinion defines the strong keyword/meta tag you'd want to use. 11:26:31 <suseROCKs> What do you think? 11:26:58 <manugupt1> Yes I went through them but at the end of the day I find them most of them irrelevant or offtopic 11:27:07 <suseROCKs> ok 11:27:18 <helen_au> example? 11:27:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, like ice cream 11:27:56 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, ok so discuss openly with the rest of the team here and see what people think 11:28:15 <jospoortvliet> darn you lot talk hard and fast 11:28:25 <suseROCKs> also, you may want to put a query out there in the wild (ML, twitter, etc.) with "What word do you think best describes openSUSE" or something 11:28:28 <jospoortvliet> I guess I can forget catching up to mail in between the discussions huh? 11:28:38 <jospoortvliet> so since I was here last: 11:28:42 * yaloki doesn't think it's fast 11:28:44 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, mail is overrated :-) 11:28:45 <jospoortvliet> @yaloki I just go sit in a corner, cry 11:28:55 <helen_au> oh yeah I nearly had a fit when I read 'Icecream' - what an awkward name for software. 11:29:00 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: you're just way too nice for this world 11:29:05 <jospoortvliet> @ helen_au: yes but that's just to help make choices for newbies 11:29:23 <manugupt1> Ok.. since everyone is here I will brief it fast 11:29:26 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: all desktops are created equal for RMS ;-) 11:29:33 <suseROCKs> everybody shut up for 5 mins to let jos finish scrolling up 11:29:37 <helen_au> no the utlity icecream 11:30:03 <manugupt1> Ok.. I will have ice cream 11:30:11 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: no KDE is evil for him 11:30:20 <helen_au> now I"m looking around to see whose baby Icecream is..... 11:30:22 * suseROCKs wonders if jospoortvliet's lips move when he reads 11:30:38 <yaloki> helen_au: hmm... coolo, methinks 11:31:07 <helen_au> yaloki, ok well don't tell him I laughed at his naming choice :) 11:31:17 <yaloki> helen_au: or, at least, coolo would definitely be able to tell you whose baby it is :) 11:31:37 <yaloki> helen_au: I think you only have two options when you need to pick a name for a software project 11:31:52 <jospoortvliet> meanwhile I wonder if rlihm has already started working on the twitter/identica/blogger Bento/SUSE themes ;-) 11:31:57 <suseROCKs> why do I hear a country-western song coming up now? 11:32:08 <yaloki> helen_au: make up an useful but cryptic acronym (e.g. gcc), or pick some funky/funny name that is totally unrelated (icecream) ;D 11:32:25 <yaloki> suseROCKs: because you're in bloody US of A 11:32:25 <yaloki> :D 11:33:25 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: ok, caught up? may we resume? ;) 11:33:51 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: now i have to catch up to all the bullshit you were talking while I was catching up 11:34:01 * jospoortvliet wonders how it's possible to keep up with suseROCKs and yaloki 11:34:09 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: bullshit perpetuum 11:34:23 <izabelvalverde> :-D 11:34:28 <rlihm> jospoortvliet: nope ... just played around with tumblr 11:34:31 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, You do not have to catch up. You're doing just fine sitting there looking pretty 11:34:48 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: give us your best smile 11:34:53 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: jeeez dude get off that... Sure I might be pretty but that's something only girls (one specific one) get to say... 11:34:56 <izabelvalverde> kids around :D 11:34:58 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, show us some leg! 11:35:00 <jospoortvliet> izabelvalverde: hehe 11:35:10 * jospoortvliet hides in a corner 11:35:52 <yaloki> ok, weren't we about to do something useful? 11:36:09 <suseROCKs> yaloki, we got jospoortvliet to go sit in a corner. i think we did somehting useful 11:36:13 <gnokii> yaloki: u are rude 11:36:13 * suseROCKs rimshots! 11:36:24 <yaloki> suseROCKs: we just need to find someone to put into the blue corner now 11:36:40 <yaloki> fayah fayah! 11:37:17 <suseROCKs> ok so usefully speaking... we were on manugupt1's subject of keywords. jospoortvliet now taht you've caught up... any suggestions, criticisms, whatnot? 11:37:25 <gnokii> I saw it yaloki cried allah allah 11:37:49 <yaloki> ♫ np: David Bowie - China Girl 11:38:28 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: well I like the list, it's practical. But it should have a few more items from the strategy - like the ones I suggested, helen added one or two too 11:39:03 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0 11:39:03 <jospoortvliet> rlihm: tumblr huh, any fun ;-) 11:39:17 <manugupt1> rlihm, tumblr what are you doing with that 11:39:28 <yaloki> manugupt1: (don't ask!) 11:39:41 * gnokii wondering that there so many names for cotweet, did they really log in since they get an account? 11:39:47 <rlihm> yaloki: so you use tumblr as well ;-) 11:39:54 <yaloki> rlihm: no 11:40:02 <yaloki> rlihm: I think I just confused it with chat roulette 11:40:03 <yaloki> heheheh 11:40:25 <rlihm> yaloki: chat roulette is creasy! 11:40:32 <suseROCKs> "chat roulette"... what an appropos word 11:40:37 <suseROCKs> or phrase 11:40:52 <helen_au> just one thought re keywords - differentiating between SEO keywords and marketing keywords 11:41:09 <helen_au> eg. 'stability' might be something we want to promote 11:41:15 <yaloki> I don't quite understand the spatial organization of the spreadsheet.. uhm... 11:41:19 <rlihm> manugupt1: I read the docu and play around with it from time to time => http://rlihm.tumblr.com/ 11:41:20 <helen_au> but for SEO might be irrelevant 11:41:32 <rlihm> manugupt1: in the last days 11:41:33 <helen_au> SEO is all about what people are actually searching for 11:41:50 <helen_au> when I'm SEOing an article I use google adwords, and brainstorm a bunch of phrases related to the topic 11:41:57 <helen_au> and see what it says are most popular 11:42:16 <suseROCKs> helen_au, exactly. Which is why we want to get as big a list as possible and then cull down to words that are relevant to us and relevant to a searcher 11:43:08 <suseROCKs> ok I need to go for a while. I'll catch up with you all later 11:43:38 <helen_au> personally I'd be keen to have a big list of connected keywords 11:43:49 <yaloki> maybe a mind map would be better suited 11:44:03 <helen_au> you don't want to be reusing the same handful of keywords all the time, or you'll lose the long tail 11:44:14 <helen_au> it's just a starting point, something to jump off with 11:44:30 <manugupta> Ok.. helen_au we have the big list of words 11:44:51 <helen_au> two minutes on Adwords and you know whether people are searching for Kiwi or disk imaging or make custom boot disk. 11:45:15 <manugupta> helen_au, did you have a look at cvs 11:45:22 <yaloki> mmmmmh adwords.... 11:45:33 <manugupta> the two of them they are from google web master accounts 11:45:34 <yaloki> that's tricky 11:45:56 <helen_au> what's from web master accounts? 11:46:18 <manugupta> The two csv in the piratepad 11:46:19 <helen_au> I don't like the new adwords format as much as the old one, but it's a terrific tool. 11:46:46 <javier_> manugupta: I would use another colour for the right square 11:46:59 <helen_au> I've got the spreadsheet https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0 11:47:50 <helen_au> oh found opensuse dec ones 11:47:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://suseware.com/dec/ 11:48:21 <manugupt1> So we have a list we need to sort it down 11:50:13 <helen_au> ok so one is a list of all the words that show up on openSUSE pages? 11:50:30 <helen_au> and the other is a list of how many searches there are for certain words on opensuse pages? 11:51:01 <manugupt1> Yes.. 11:51:35 <manugupt1> I will be back in a while guys 11:52:13 <helen_au> well I don't see a -lot- of point in looking at the word frequency on existing pages. That just tells us what's already there. 11:52:44 <helen_au> what people are searching for is interesting. Why did (suseROCKs??) suggest ice cream was irrelevant? 11:53:35 <helen_au> the other thing is, this is what people are searching for ONCE they are on openSUSE, or that bring them to opensuse. Also we need to know what they are searching for in google that ISN'T bringing them to us but should be. 11:55:24 <manugupt1> helen_au, it was me not suseROCKs :) 11:56:13 <helen_au> manugupt1,so why not include ice cream? 11:57:11 <helen_au> in a sense it doesn't matter because google (I THINK) should ignore the space and pick up opensuse icecream anyway 11:57:49 <manugupt1> helen_au, ok as I see it SEO is for boosting traffics on search engines.. while people maybe looking for ice cream but that does not provide an overall image of openSUSE project in its meta tags not because the users search it more 11:58:13 <manugupt1> So I prefer OBS, KIWI and stuff more than ice cream 11:58:25 <manugupt1> Thats my viewpoint 11:58:32 <manugupt1> Now what do you say 11:58:36 <helen_au> sure, but there will be plenty of pages optimised for obs, kiwi etc. 11:58:39 <jospoortvliet> kiwi's are more healthy than ice cream 11:58:50 <jospoortvliet> (provided kiwi means the same in english as it means in dutch) 11:59:03 <jospoortvliet> (fruit, hairy brown fruit to be exact) 11:59:05 <yaloki> icecream is a very useful barely known project, but it's less "important" than OBS, for sure 11:59:14 <helen_au> the odd page with small keywords needs to be included 11:59:25 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: when u see jospoortvliet eating ice cream in brazil, take it from him and give him a vitamin pill 11:59:33 <helen_au> so long as you have a healthy hub of content for your key keywords 11:59:54 <manugupt1> helen_au, the problem is our wiki has not been optimised for meta tags maybe soon in the future 11:59:56 <helen_au> there's plenty of room for news articles, blog entries or wiki pages to include a liberal dose of smaller keywords 12:00:13 <helen_au> SEO happens in body text as well as meta tags 12:00:32 <helen_au> also image tags 12:00:34 <manugupt1> Also I think our rss feeds needs to be submitted to various tech forums 12:01:16 <manugupt1> aYes.. helen_au agreed but we can try and help where we can otherwise lets do something else like Sneek Peak of openSUSE that is more important 12:01:27 <manugupt1> For the media 12:02:26 <manugupt1> What do you say mam 12:02:56 <helen_au> sure, I thought SEO was the topic of the moment ... can happily move on 12:03:13 <helen_au> (it's a pet topic of mine as I write one of the top 100 websites of About.com...) 12:03:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, :) Please help me out later then 12:03:49 <helen_au> sure 12:05:11 <manugupt1> Or better if there is an rss feed for your profile point me there 12:06:24 <helen_au> you mean this one? http://en.opensuse.org/User:Helen-au 12:07:40 <manugupt1> helen_au, no the about.com one 12:09:51 <helen_au> back.... 12:10:00 <manugupt1> helen_au, no the about.com one with all your SEO feeds ;) 12:10:07 <manugupt1> I can read it when I go to sleep 12:11:04 <helen_au> no I get funky graphical charts provided by our tech team 12:11:08 <helen_au> it's in house I can't show you 12:11:28 <manugupt1> Ok.. 12:11:36 <helen_au> they have stats down to a fine art 12:11:45 <helen_au> but really applying it to pages isn't rocket science 12:12:07 <helen_au> you brainstorm your keywords, try to mesh what people are searching for with the topic you're writing on 12:12:21 <manugupt1> helen_au, applying isnt brainstormind is So we start with our sneak peeks now... as you will be leaving now 12:12:21 <helen_au> and use the text in the pages. 12:12:36 <manugupt1> exactly 12:12:42 <helen_au> sorry didn't mean to hijack... 12:12:58 <helen_au> (the other big thing: quality content, lots of it...)_ 12:13:31 <helen_au> I can leave if you like. 12:13:36 <manugupt1> No you are not I just want to finish one http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/Sneek-Peak We can start the artcle here 12:13:44 <manugupt1> I never meant that 12:14:02 <manugupt1> I meant it will get night and you will have to go to bed :) 12:14:14 <helen_au> true 12:14:22 <helen_au> soon 12:14:37 <manugupt1> and helen_au while I agree with all your points we do not have enough man power 12:14:44 <manugupt1> I am sorry you mistook in a different way 12:14:50 <helen_au> not a problem 12:14:57 <manugupt1> Here are the list of features http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 12:15:24 <helen_au> re manpower - really it's no extra. My point is, you can run around in circles making lists, or you can do two minutes keyword research as you write and apply it to your article, job done. 12:15:28 <helen_au> it really is that easy. 12:15:39 <helen_au> ok sneak peak 12:15:46 <helen_au> do we have a list of release notes or something? 12:15:51 <manugupt1> helen_au, I am going to apply the second option now 12:16:00 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 12:16:06 <manugupt1> release notes are not ready yet 12:21:36 <manugupt1> helen_au, is etherpad creating problems for you 12:21:53 <helen_au> no it did say something abou tmissing plugins 12:22:05 <helen_au> I just ignored, it's working I think? 12:22:06 <manugupt1> Java 12:22:10 <helen_au> ah. 12:22:11 <manugupt1> yes its working 12:22:51 <helen_au> openSUSE 64bit LXDE.... I probably need to spend a few mins getting pugins etc. 12:25:57 <helen_au> is there a list of 11.4 planned features? the roadmap is a timeline thing. 12:26:11 <yaloki> helen_au: most probably not 12:26:20 <yaloki> helen_au: because we can't get feedback from the "developers" 12:26:33 <helen_au> you're a developer. :) 12:26:45 <helen_au> oh you mean upstream? 12:26:48 <yaloki> not much at opensuse 12:26:50 <helen_au> like will their projects be ready? 12:26:59 <yaloki> not necessarily upstream 12:27:15 <yaloki> "developers" (well, not really) in the sense of: maintainers of factory 12:27:19 <yaloki> coolo, mostly 12:27:31 <yaloki> as he should know what goes into factory and, hence, 11.4 12:28:14 <helen_au> just need some rough ideas, we can't make it up. Well we could..... 12:28:42 <yaloki> systemd I guess, although AFAIK it'll only be a preview 12:28:59 <helen_au> still preview? 12:29:13 <yaloki> think so 12:29:15 <manugupt1> helen_au, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 you can have an idea here 12:29:18 <yaloki> it's a major change that can break everything 12:29:38 <helen_au> oh righto 12:29:39 <yaloki> and I don't think systemd is quite ready for production yet 12:30:35 <helen_au> ah. pity looks cool. 12:30:58 <yaloki> it does 12:31:20 <yaloki> apart from that, I don't think there are any revolutionary changes 12:32:46 <helen_au> oh right that was the document we started on the other day. 12:32:59 <helen_au> I started a bit of a ramble on wireshark lol.... 12:33:32 <yaloki> how so? 12:34:16 <helen_au> sorry the etherpad above 12:34:27 <helen_au> separate train of thought. 12:34:39 <helen_au> http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 12:34:59 <helen_au> nothing revolutionary true but some nice things 12:35:08 <manugupt1> Did anyone call me 12:38:24 <helen_au> tumbleweed is still pretty experimental? 12:38:39 <yaloki> helen_au: we haven't really started yet :) 12:38:40 <helen_au> from message on mailserv today sounds like one maintainer. 12:38:51 <helen_au> likely to be functional by march? 12:39:08 <helen_au> we're talking about it like it's standard issue. 12:39:13 <yaloki> it'll pretty much start as a fork of 11.4, as far as I know 12:39:30 <helen_au> mentioned testbed 11.2 i think 12:39:35 <yaloki> will need some time to put things into place, but that has started 12:39:42 <yaloki> ah, haven't read that one yet 12:39:43 <helen_au> kk 12:40:03 <helen_au> it was just a small aside on list as I was shouting out for help with poster text, Tumbleweed getting amention. 12:40:05 <yaloki> with GKH pushing, no question it'll happen though 12:40:09 <helen_au> cool. 12:40:23 <yaloki> I think we can concentrate on tumbleweed once it has really lifted off 12:40:24 <helen_au> ok well we'll assume so, can always delete the text last minut e :) 12:41:53 <gnokii> helen_au: tumbleweed happens GKH stand behind, evergreen I am not so sure we had this discussion twice but noone step forward 12:42:31 <helen_au> yes I found it hard to dig up anything solid on Evergreen. 12:42:50 <yaloki> helen_au: that's because there isn't anything solid yet 12:42:58 <helen_au> lol 12:42:59 <gnokii> helen_au: as I said make evergreen as the last one, concentrate on the others 12:43:04 <helen_au> yep 12:43:07 <yaloki> it's a lot more difficult and... "political" to set up as compared to tumbleweed 12:43:26 <yaloki> actually, I don't think anything should be mentioned about evergreen at all 12:43:29 <helen_au> well since the poster image was there, I wanted to 'finish the job' and not leave it hanging 12:43:36 <yaloki> until we know how we'll do it 12:43:36 <helen_au> yeah 12:43:41 <helen_au> that might be wise. 12:43:47 <helen_au> gnokii, maybe just file that one for later? 12:43:54 <helen_au> even tumbleweed too 12:44:07 <yaloki> evergreen definitely later 12:44:11 <helen_au> though if they do work out last minute, the're printing etc... 12:44:18 <yaloki> it's also a highly political thing with novell 12:44:24 <helen_au> so in terms of preparing materials... 12:44:33 <yaloki> putting the word out too early or in the wrong way may cause an incident 12:45:15 <helen_au> ok then might be safest to leave totally alone. 12:45:20 <yaloki> yes, please 12:45:20 <helen_au> stupide politice 12:45:22 <helen_au> politics 12:45:33 <lupinstein> good morning all 12:45:38 <helen_au> hey pup 12:45:41 <lupinstein> sorry over slept. 12:45:52 <yaloki> doesn't sound like something to be sorry for :D 12:46:38 <lupinstein> I didn't got to be until 2:3am here. 12:46:48 <lupinstein> thanks yaloki 12:47:27 <gnokii> helen_au: what u mean with one file? 12:47:38 <yaloki> hm, sleep, sounds like I want some of that too 12:47:48 <helen_au> "on file" meaning, save them for later 12:48:01 <helen_au> tumbleweed and evergreen 12:48:04 <yaloki> put it on the stack :) 12:48:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: YOU! 12:48:45 <helen_au> I deleted the notes on the poster 12:48:50 <jospoortvliet> writing master 12:48:50 <helen_au> ME? 12:48:54 <jospoortvliet> yes you ;-) 12:48:55 <helen_au> bwahaha 12:49:03 <jospoortvliet> you're on the poster stuff I see? 12:49:05 <jospoortvliet> that's good 12:49:06 <helen_au> let's hope Linux Format think so 12:49:08 <helen_au> yep 12:49:09 <jospoortvliet> haha 12:49:11 <jospoortvliet> of course 12:49:16 <manugupt1> Look helen_au I said you are the master :) 12:49:24 <jospoortvliet> I could also use you in the feature guide/release announcement 12:49:27 <helen_au> I sent a proposal for the community article to them yesterday.. 12:49:31 <jospoortvliet> http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 12:49:34 <gnokii> helen_au: yaloki about the politic, its always the same there are ppl the want an openSLES and that definitly not happen but against an evergreen version what means a longer supported opensuse version there isnt novell against 12:49:37 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: points for that 12:49:39 <jospoortvliet> cool 12:49:42 <jospoortvliet> very cool 12:49:47 <yaloki> gnokii: right 12:49:49 <helen_au> well I had a peek there you seem to be making good progress 12:49:58 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: he thanks 12:50:01 <helen_au> I figure I'll have a look with coffee in the morning 12:50:17 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok, sounds good, I'll still be here when you wake up I recon... hehe 12:50:41 <gnokii> yaloki: helen_au but how I see this, the persons how want that are not the persons they do the work, but wolifR made the right step forward 12:50:44 * yaloki goes to grab some sleep before picking up his daughter at school and going to the doc 12:51:05 <helen_au> yaloki, sleep well! 12:51:08 <yaloki> cu l8r geeks and geekettes 12:51:28 <helen_au> gnokii, sure I see your point there, but I think to be wise, not upset anyone right now, we just put those two "on the back burner" 12:51:33 <gnokii> helen_au: he have some hrs to work to can go sleep :D 12:51:45 <lupinstein> yaloki cya 12:51:47 <helen_au> PLENTY of other work to do right now, and easy to do something when they are official. 12:52:08 <helen_au> it's hard enough researching documented projects without plucking stuff out of thin air. 12:52:08 <gnokii> helen_au: right, thats the point why I said make them later 12:52:13 <helen_au> yes 12:52:15 <helen_au> agreed 12:52:20 <helen_au> we're on the same page then 12:52:36 <helen_au> I removed most notes too, just in case anyone reads it and gets the wrong idea. 12:52:39 <gnokii> for both motifes exists a second when they dont happen 12:53:00 <helen_au> oh good. 12:53:54 <gnokii> evergreen becomes a motif what make ur release cycle more understandable and tumbleweed becomes a second OBS 12:54:29 <helen_au> sure 12:54:45 <jospoortvliet> morning lupinstein 12:54:52 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: you leaving? 12:55:10 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: afternoon :-) 12:55:13 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: yes, I was planning to do so, why ? 12:55:16 <helen_au> well I'm heading off too, see you in the morning hopefully with some inspiration for 11.4 12:55:20 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: ok when you're back please look at the feature guide http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 you know what's going on 12:55:23 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 12:55:27 <jospoortvliet> need to be checked... 12:55:36 <jospoortvliet> I can try to make coolo do it but he hates that stuff more than anyone :D 12:55:46 <yaloki> ok, staying in front of the keyboard for one more cig then :) 12:55:48 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok good night and see u tomorrow 12:55:56 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: ha ok will do the same hehe 12:56:06 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: remember what I said about communication cripples? :D 12:56:34 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I choose to ignore many of the things you say, why? ;-) 12:56:38 <jospoortvliet> hehe 12:56:41 <jospoortvliet> yeah 12:57:12 <yaloki> "relying on both shared Free Software technologies as well as openSUSE specific features" 12:57:20 <jospoortvliet> I quoted him during the discussion with $SOMEONE in the last marketing meeting (which got promptly ignored by $SOMEONE, like most things other ppl say) 12:57:20 <yaloki> that sounds like the openSUSE specific features are not opensource 12:57:29 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: good point 12:57:55 <yaloki> dunno about cronie either.. 12:58:09 <yaloki> if I'm not mistaken, the idea with cronie is that it is better suited for workstations 12:58:25 <yaloki> because it can catch up tasks that haven't been executed because the host was shut down 12:58:31 <jospoortvliet> fscking pulse audio 12:58:32 <jospoortvliet> meh 12:58:36 <jospoortvliet> no sound here 12:58:38 <jospoortvliet> and I need my music... 12:58:41 <jospoortvliet> meh meh meh 12:59:01 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: thanks, that cronie part is good, can fix that 12:59:12 <lupinstein> ? what are you guys talking about 12:59:15 * gnokii hope jospoortvliet remind one day about the installer slidesho text or how long should there written on Novell gives u openSUSE 13:00:01 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I think it should go asap 13:00:04 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 13:00:30 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: for 11.4 is gone or u think u can make it asap and translate it asap? 13:01:08 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I think we can make it 13:01:16 <jospoortvliet> we can use parts of the feature guide and strategy 13:01:22 <jospoortvliet> so it can be written quickly 13:01:24 <jospoortvliet> relatively... 13:01:28 <gnokii> u are funny 13:01:43 <gnokii> I am not so sure u get what I meant 13:01:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: he well I dunno how much time is needed for translation 13:01:47 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: oh sorry 13:02:18 <gnokii> I install a openSUSE right now and so I have to watch the slideshow 13:03:24 <lupinstein> ah, ok. I thought today was Social stuff, did I miss that 13:03:39 <gnokii> and I find url like http://www.novell.com/de-de/linux in a text funny 13:04:18 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: yeah, better check back on the cronie website though, I might be mistaking it with another cron implementation 13:04:42 * manugupt1 wonders how can the europeans and the ones in US bear the cold 13:05:21 <lupinstein> manugupt1: that's why we have food high in fat 13:05:23 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: damn, ok, I _did_ mistake it with another one :) 13:05:25 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: "has security and configuration enhancements like the ability to use pam and 13:05:28 <yaloki> SELinux" 13:05:38 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: so nothing major 13:05:52 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: yes it's social stuff 13:06:37 * gnokii has also a cotweet account for what it is for? 13:06:39 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: edit IN the doc pls :D 13:07:29 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: just wondering as the pad was openSUSE 11.4 13:07:56 * jospoortvliet also wonders how he survives. Then again, wearing shoes inside, mittens and two sweaters & a t-shirt 13:08:10 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: yeah it's one of the things we work on 13:08:19 <jospoortvliet> however, see topic, anything you want to do please jump on it :D 13:08:24 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: done 13:08:28 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: tnx 13:16:49 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: can the art-team have for 11.5/12.0/12.1 a hackfest? 13:17:06 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: sounds like a plan, yes 13:18:08 <jospoortvliet> I can support about one hackfest/sprint per (my budget) quarter. So it can be either in May-June-July or August-Sept-Okt. If you want to do it for 12.0/11.5, May-June-July would be best I guess 13:18:10 <gnokii> would be only rlihm, javier, coolo, wstephenson, vuntz and me 13:18:49 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I would request to have ppl new to openSUSE artwork at a meeting. People who've been involved less than 6 months in openSUSE. We need to keep fresh blood flowing in... 13:18:53 <gnokii> would be prefer may, but that can become a problem 13:18:56 <jospoortvliet> (this requirement I want to have for each meeting) 13:19:07 <jospoortvliet> (one is enough)\ 13:19:12 <jospoortvliet> (but more is better) 13:19:32 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: for the normal work yes, but this I see like Alan see it 13:19:47 <lupinstein> jospoortvliet: let me get my alerts taking care of I will take a look. 13:19:50 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: ok, artwork is different in some ways 13:19:58 <jospoortvliet> lupinstein: good :D 13:20:18 <gnokii> some time its better to make, a decision and talk then with the ppl otherwise no result comes out of a discussion 13:20:25 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: anyway, talk to them and see who else can come, find a date, and come back with a rough budget that would be needed and a location. If it's just a few dudes, I might be able to have a second meeting that quarter, that would rock. 13:20:55 <gnokii> for may would be possible to do it on linuxtag, but I am not so sure I am there 13:40:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: btw "[14:20] <gnokii> some time its better to make, a decision and talk then with the ppl otherwise no result comes out of a discussion" that doesn't sound like you very much ;-) 13:41:05 <jospoortvliet> did you just make an U turn? 13:41:26 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 13:42:59 <gnokii> no 13:43:21 <gnokii> but decission have to be by leaders not by ppl they think they are that 13:49:01 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Let me know if you got some time 14:31:05 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: sorry but did I miss the announcement for milestone 5 or exists there not something like that? 14:36:19 <lupinstein> gnokii: I didn't see it either, I looked yesterday when I download m5 to install 15:10:25 <jospoortvliet> sorry for being away for so long, had to get some food 15:10:28 <jospoortvliet> hungry hungry 15:10:44 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: no milestone 5 announcement still, I'm afraid 15:10:45 <jospoortvliet> nobody wrote it 15:10:47 <jospoortvliet> ... 15:10:59 <jospoortvliet> I wouldn't know how or what... 15:14:26 <gnokii> so jospoortvliet see u the guy! 15:14:32 <gnokii> noone wrote it 15:14:46 <jospoortvliet> so I have to? problem is - I never did it and don't know what is new 15:14:55 <jospoortvliet> I could write something but I need info about WHAT 15:15:03 <jospoortvliet> without something like a feature list - little I can do... 15:15:12 <jospoortvliet> if you know where I could find that, that would be great 15:15:14 <jospoortvliet> if there is something... 15:17:20 <jospoortvliet> anyone interested in doing writing and word smithing, go to http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS pls 15:17:42 <jospoortvliet> we need marketing texts and short descriptions for our websites and folders, posters etc 15:27:13 <polycarp> does the opensuse project include an attendant community or IS IT the community? 15:28:03 * gnokii have to draw now KDE in 2016 fear they dont accept my view 15:28:36 <jospoortvliet> polycarp: good question. I would say the openSUSE project is everything - community + technology/products 15:28:45 <jospoortvliet> but it is fuzzy 15:28:46 <polycarp> thx 15:28:50 <polycarp> yes it is 15:28:51 <polycarp> ;) 15:28:53 <jospoortvliet> project or community is basically ver similar 15:29:06 <jospoortvliet> we call it the openSUSE project, maybe community is wider 15:29:09 <jospoortvliet> includes users 15:29:13 <jospoortvliet> but even that - vague to me... 15:29:19 <jospoortvliet> something we should one day try to make clear 15:29:31 <jospoortvliet> but then again, KDE tried that with their rebranding, they're still struggeling :D 15:29:35 <jospoortvliet> ain't easy 15:30:26 <suseROCKs> hiya aledr 15:31:03 <aledr> hi suseROCKs , having fun with Jos? 15:31:46 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, I don't think they are that similar. A project is a place where initiatives go forth. Whereas a "community" can be a much broader term which includes even just users who don't actively participate in the Project, but are nevertheless vital to the sustaining of the Project 15:31:51 * jospoortvliet frowns at suseROCKs to ensure he says The Right Thing (TM) 15:32:12 <suseROCKs> aledr, I try. and its very easy to have fun with such a great guy. 15:32:13 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: you are right, polycarp listen to the master 15:32:16 <suseROCKs> (TM) fulfilled 15:32:22 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: hehe 15:32:49 <polycarp> thx suseROCKs 15:33:16 <suseROCKs> polycarp, But I am curious about your perspective of where things seem unclear to you. Hearing about it helps us to fine tune our message 15:33:45 <suseROCKs> aledr, and what kind of fun are you having these days? 15:34:13 * suseROCKs tips his hat to the lovely Ms. izabelvalverde 15:34:20 <polycarp> well, in the 170 word project description, it is good to know whether or not the project has given rise to a vibrant and active community AROUND it or if the project IS it. 15:34:21 <polycarp> lol 15:34:44 <polycarp> I agree that the boundaries are semi-permeable. 15:35:28 <aledr> suseROCKs, not so many... got an exam at college today, i hope it is the last one =D Now I'm happy, just work. Need to fix some packages at OBS 15:35:34 <suseROCKs> well, effective vibrance and activity rely heavily on building the groundwork. And to this, I believe we're seeing a rise because we have worked to put those pieces together over the years. 15:35:47 <izabelvalverde> suseROCKs such a gentleman ;-) 15:36:59 <gnokii> izabelvalverde: gentleman u must be naming me :D 15:37:25 <izabelvalverde> gnokii ok you deserve it too :D 15:38:06 <aledr> suseROCKs, What about you? Travelling yet? 15:39:18 <suseROCKs> aledr, Nope. i'm on blessed break! 3 of the longest at-home months since July 2009! 15:42:00 * manugupt1 wonders why has flickr not moved onto openid yahoo has such wonderful engineers 15:42:37 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: if they did that would rock I don't want to have a yahoo mail account... just for flickr... I use google account for most of my stuff :D 15:43:40 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, they have added google account just now so 15:43:47 <aledr> gnokii, great colors!!! (talking about screenshots at your post) 15:44:35 <aledr> I prefer the dark one... 15:44:56 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 can use picasa with gmail 15:45:23 <gnokii> aledr: the dark one is history 15:45:25 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, Sure.. 15:46:11 <aledr> gnokii, still prefering ;D 15:47:07 <gnokii> yeah problem gnome team like to have another one 15:56:09 <gnokii> aledr: but there is a discussion on gnome list ;) 16:27:06 <anditosan> jospoortlvliet: It looks like you will be involved in a few things that deal with writing, I can help with that if you want. I do creative writing pretty often (I'm a historian, you know?) However, I would be an editor more that a creator. 16:33:15 <manugupt1> So anditosan have a look at this manigupt1.ietherpad.com/4 16:33:23 <gnokii> what no crazy user interface ideas anymore? 16:35:09 <anditosan> hahaha you and I gnokii are going to be best friends one day 16:35:10 <anditosan> :D 16:36:56 <anditosan> I recently decided to create an idea about the chat window for kopete. To simplifiy it by having a sinngle window where you can post your chat lines like you do on facebook or twitter 16:37:01 <anditosan> you can check it out 16:37:15 <jospoortvliet> anditosan: thanks 16:37:38 <jospoortvliet> you can start with either http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 or http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS ;-) 16:37:41 <jospoortvliet> whatever tickles you most... 16:37:45 <anditosan> jospoortvliet: no problem 16:37:48 <jospoortvliet> super 16:37:52 <jospoortvliet> hey guys, I need a little break 16:37:54 <jospoortvliet> or I go nuts 16:37:56 <jospoortvliet> srry 16:38:02 <jospoortvliet> back in half an hour or so 16:38:45 <gnokii> anditosan: sure I saw that, but I am the wrong person for gui design of kopete, we told u often go to KDE 16:39:32 <anditosan> no worries, I know that, I am just answering your question 16:39:37 <anditosan> ;) 16:52:37 <manugupt1> polycarp, jospoortvliet nice work :) on the second etherpad 17:19:54 <suseROCKs> Welcome CarlosRibeiro 17:20:15 <manugupt1> Hi CarlosRibeiro 17:20:20 <manugupt1> How are you 17:20:21 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: Hello 17:20:59 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: how are you doing my friend 17:21:08 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, What are you doing that Izabel is losing her connection and timing out? 17:21:11 <manugupt1> I am fine 17:21:38 <CarlosRibeiro> I see in etherpad that we already have something to be done ;) 17:21:47 <manugupt1> Yes.. lots CarlosRibeiro 17:22:38 <CarlosRibeiro> I looking to see if have something that I can give a hand 17:22:50 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, You can give it to a lot of things 17:23:30 <CarlosRibeiro> ;) 17:23:48 <manugupt1> :) 17:24:25 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE Short Descriptions BOF can be found at http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS 17:26:51 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE Sneak Peek can be found at http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 17:27:20 <manugupt1> #info openSUSE a list of keywords can be found at https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tM3XHh6RnY4HW3lbdfMSZ-A&hl=en#gid=0 17:27:42 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Did I summarize todays things correctly 17:48:01 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: jospoortvliet about, http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 ,line 13. "This release brings significant improvements to the underlying infrastructure as well as the latest Free Software desktop and server packages." sounds link the all features and nice things only are available to servers and Desktop. And about ATM's, Cash register, POS Point of Service/Sale, Multimidia islands, Thin-clients, fat-client... so retail stores, 17:48:01 <CarlosRibeiro> financial market, healthcare sector, educational will not also be able to get benefits from 11.4? 17:48:26 <manugupt1> Obviously they will be CarlosRibeiro 17:49:18 <CarlosRibeiro> so I believe will fits better if we change a little bit like "From desktop to servers, this release brings significant improvements to the underlying infrastructure as well as the latest Free Software packages" 17:49:41 <manugupt1> Yes.. 17:49:43 <CarlosRibeiro> and not finish with "desktops and servers" 17:49:52 <manugupt1> :) 17:55:35 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, i get your point, and you're definitely on the mark. But i think we can come up with someting more descriptive than "underlying infrastructure" it just comes away sounding like ... "we don't know specifics" 17:56:45 <suseROCKs> there's just something missing, some pizzazz to sparkle in that phrase.... 17:57:06 <manugupt1> But suseROCKs CarlosRibeiro thats a sneak peek 17:57:09 <CarlosRibeiro> I go what you taling 17:57:17 <CarlosRibeiro> but I'm ot so creative today 17:57:24 <suseROCKs> we need a phrase thtat says "from A-Z" 17:57:25 <CarlosRibeiro> I got I mean 17:57:26 <manugupt1> so we really dont know specifics it is what can be there and what can we hope in 11.4 thats how I see it as 17:57:49 <suseROCKs> no CarlosRibeiro you got a good mark on it. i think its great. Just trying to figure out what word(s) can get the point of what you're saying 17:58:16 <CarlosRibeiro> ;) 17:58:39 <suseROCKs> Too bad "A-Z" just isn't nice to say in a statement. :-D 17:59:41 <manugupt1> yes infrastructure 17:59:53 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, add some pizzaz please 18:00:02 <suseROCKs> "... significant improvements to fit your needs as well as the latest Free Software packages" 18:00:06 <suseROCKs> no I don't like that either 18:00:18 <manugupt1> Lets change the Title too openSUSE 11.4 pizaaz instead of sneek peaks 18:00:27 <suseROCKs> underlying infrastructure is just too alienating I think. 18:01:16 <suseROCKs> c'mon, CarlosRibeiro and manugupt1 Let's brainstorm. Think up some words here and we'll find the magic spot 18:01:32 <suseROCKs> underlying infrastructure 18:01:34 <suseROCKs> a-z 18:01:38 <suseROCKs> suit your needs 18:02:02 <suseROCKs> spin the dreidel 18:02:05 <suseROCKs> (ok I made that one up) 18:07:13 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: hum... I was thinking something better than "... significant improvements to fit your needs as well as the latest Free Software packages" but I agree sounds better 18:07:18 <manugupt1> Ok.. Guys.. Need your attention for a sec 18:07:19 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: +1 18:08:11 <manugupt1> Ok.. We wanted to describe openSUSE in 170 characters and that was a challenge 18:09:28 <manugupt1> So we came up with this 18:09:29 <manugupt1> openSUSE - An international collaboration of developers, sysadmins and users creating a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice, stability and ease of use with some of the most dynamic developer and IT tools 18:10:03 <manugupt1> Break it down to 170 characters sj are you up for the challenge 18:11:07 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, Dominian sj anyone.. 18:11:28 <Dominian> ? 18:11:36 <Dominian> Sorry kind of in the middle of a big issue 18:12:06 <manugupt1> Dominian, Ok.. sorry for disturbing 18:12:39 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, you're +1ing the wrong thing. I'm not opposing your change. i think you rchange is great. Just think we can find one word to change and make it sexier. That's all. So please.... +1 yourself! ;-) 18:13:18 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, save two characters. change " - " to "-" 18:13:32 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: I understand ... so +1 for us ;) 18:13:36 <manugupt1> Done.. 18:13:48 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, suseROCKs will win 18:13:54 <Dominian> manugupt1: oh you are fine :) 18:13:59 <Dominian> just saying I'm really really busy right now :) 18:14:02 <suseROCKs> whew. that 2 character savings thought was hard work! 18:14:24 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: I'm working on that 170 characters 18:14:33 <CarlosRibeiro> at least I'm trying :D 18:15:14 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, Just don't replace any words with F*da-se! :-D 18:16:23 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: ok and about F#@ing $h|†? 18:16:25 <suseROCKs> uhoh I think izabelvalverde sensed me swearing and came here to discipline me 18:16:27 <CarlosRibeiro> :D 18:16:53 <izabelvalverde> Hello guys... having fun? :D 18:17:04 <manugupt1> openSUSE - An international collaboration of developers, sysadmins and users creating a free, powerful and stable Linux distribution with choice and ease of use with some of the most dynamic developer and IT tools 18:17:14 <manugupt1> I win 213 characters suseROCKs 18:17:15 <CarlosRibeiro> izabelvalverde: yes, but to be honest is much better now ;) 18:17:32 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, We are playing wanna join 18:17:54 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I win. 211 characters... take out the space before and after "-" :-D 18:18:28 <izabelvalverde> good collaboration is about how to play together as well ;-) 18:18:29 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, you took out "freedom" :-( 18:18:31 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Cheat 18:18:38 <izabelvalverde> :D 18:18:51 <manugupt1> Yes 18:19:02 <manugupt1> izabelvalverde, do you want to know the rules 18:19:08 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, an important metatag don't you think? 18:19:17 <manugupt1> keyword 18:19:26 <suseROCKs> oops yeah i mean keyword :-D 18:19:36 <izabelvalverde> manugupt1 tell me the rules 18:19:57 <suseROCKs> Rule 1: Do not drink Santa's milk and eat his cookies before Christmas! 18:20:15 <suseROCKs> Rule 2: Do not drink the milk after Christmas because it will be sour and dangerous after sitting near fireplace for a day! 18:20:18 <manugupt1> Look at the last statement by me about openSUSE, we need to get it to 170 characters without loosing its essence a 18:20:24 <manugupt1> I decide the winner :) 18:21:10 <manugupt1> Also ignore suseROCKs rule 18:21:24 <suseROCKs> you want her to drink the sour milk??? Shame! 18:22:06 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, You are not winning.. 18:23:46 <manugupt1> Ok.. are there any more changes to it 18:25:29 <manugupt1> So imo I am good to go happy and satisfied :) 18:26:06 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: I got ... openSUSE, a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice based on international collaboration of developers, admins and users creating stability and ease of use tools 18:26:10 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, I don't even know what the prize is :-) 18:26:33 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, that's even bigger :-( 18:27:47 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, CarlosRibeiro wins 18:27:47 <manugupt1> 176 keywords 18:27:54 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: no now have 177 Dammit and before we had 210 18:28:02 <suseROCKs> oh I counted it wrong never mind :-D 18:28:16 <manugupt1> 176 chraacters 18:28:31 <suseROCKs> Carlos wins the prize! What does he get? 18:28:43 <manugupt1> but we loose about the dynamic developer tools and stuff CarlosRibeiro 18:28:56 <suseROCKs> I propose a free all-expense paid trip to Praia Grande for the winner :-D 18:29:12 <manugupt1> That rocked 18:29:21 <CarlosRibeiro> Keep it the prize for now and I will take at osC 2011 ;) 18:29:44 * suseROCKs spanks CarlosRibeiro its oSC. Always capitalize the S!!! :-D 18:30:02 <manugupt1> I like mine 18:30:07 <manugupt1> so I win :D 18:30:18 <suseROCKs> LOL, that's cheating, manugupt1 :-D 18:30:50 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, there are plenty of things first I am going to oSC-11 18:31:05 <manugupt1> but seriously grammatically we are better 18:31:09 <CarlosRibeiro> :P 18:31:14 <manugupt1> go through it CarlosRibeiro suseROCKs 18:31:31 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, Sure. But question here is, is that description going to pull in searchers? 18:31:40 <suseROCKs> we're losing some keywords here 18:31:52 <CarlosRibeiro> another one a little bit more informal, "openSUSE, a powerful free Linux distribution with freedom of choice based on international collaboration of developers, admins and users creating a nice weekend for you" 18:32:21 * suseROCKs turns off his openSUSE Monday-Friday then :-D 18:32:42 <suseROCKs> Since I won't use Windows, I guess I don't have to compute on weekdays. Whoo hoo! 18:32:42 <izabelvalverde> free and freedom in the same phrase looks redundant 18:33:08 <manugupt1> I will be back in a while My Laptop's going to my bros custody 18:33:45 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, Can you briefly describe the purpose of this statement and keywords? 18:33:51 <suseROCKs> so we're all on the same page? 18:36:22 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: I got another one, take a look 18:36:24 <CarlosRibeiro> openSUSE, the most powerfull Linux Distro created in collaborative way by international developers, admins and users to give piece of mind and freedom of choice 18:38:41 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, We miss certain points 18:38:50 <manugupt1> 1. Developer Centric tools 18:39:43 <manugupt1> 2. Most powerful is boastful we need not be boastful but should attract them in a nice way 18:40:46 <suseROCKs> unfortunately, grammatically incorrect too 18:40:51 <jospoortvliet> guys and girls I'll be back in 20, really need to go to the toilet now and prepare some foodish stuff - was busy in a call, sorry... will then catch up to the discussion here. 18:41:05 <suseROCKs> uhh jospoortvliet Seriously?!? 18:41:12 <suseROCKs> You prepare food in the toilet????? 18:41:15 <manugupt1> yes that too.. jospoortvliet how long do you take to cook suseROCKs is missing you 18:41:25 <manugupt1> terribly 18:42:02 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, JFYI.... its "peace of mind"... when you say "give piece of mind" it means you are yelling at the person by "giving them a piece of your mind" 18:42:16 <CarlosRibeiro> ops 18:42:37 <manugupt1> Ok.. I had skipped that 18:42:51 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: do you know what meas ops 18:43:02 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, No. :-D 18:43:28 <CarlosRibeiro> means like glup 18:43:37 <suseROCKs> hehe 18:43:51 <CarlosRibeiro> but could be "open platform solutions" 18:43:53 <CarlosRibeiro> :D 18:44:11 <suseROCKs> but no, manugupt1 is right. This description is for search engines. So we need unique strong words that people will type in google that end up at our website 18:44:37 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, imagine this way 18:44:52 <manugupt1> You type openSUSE at google 18:45:30 <manugupt1> below opensuse.org you get some text, which is what we are preparing and this is what I hope to achieve with it 18:46:06 <CarlosRibeiro> ok 18:46:11 <manugupt1> So if people come and see the text they say Yes I am smart enough to take it 18:46:14 <CarlosRibeiro> I got the point 18:46:23 <manugupt1> Also Intellingent people use it not dumbos ;) 18:46:53 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, So I have to stop using it now? 18:47:09 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, openSUSE has made you smart enough ;) 18:47:33 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, Sounds like a slogan to me.... "Get smart! Use openSUSE!" 18:47:52 <suseROCKs> openSUSE - Fill your brain! (TM) 18:47:54 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, sounds like an aqua velva commercial to me ;) 18:48:22 <manugupt1> rkumar, raghu dixit was awesome sadly I missed him 18:48:32 <suseROCKs> openSUSE - Be like manugupt1! (TM) 18:48:36 <manugupt1> Specially mysore se... 18:49:05 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, ok.. I get it now :) 18:49:11 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, How about this one... ABSO!!! 18:49:32 <CarlosRibeiro> :D 18:49:33 <manugupt1> ABSO??? 18:49:37 <CarlosRibeiro> suseROCKs: niice... 18:49:45 <suseROCKs> CarlosRibeiro, you owe me a dollar! 18:50:28 <manugupt1> Ok.. 18:50:46 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: ABSO is carlos word, don't worry, it's because My english is too bad, but not much better than my portuguese, so I decided to create my own language and ABSO was the first one 18:51:27 <manugupt1> CarlosRibeiro, ABSO meants Anti Social Behaviour Order 18:51:29 <CarlosRibeiro> so when I have few words more I would like to publish my Carlos's Dictionary 18:51:49 <suseROCKs> LOL manugupt1 18:52:03 <manugupt1> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ABSO suseROCKs ;) 18:52:21 <CarlosRibeiro> or An Business Solution is Open 18:52:41 <manugupt1> I like the 1st one though 18:54:55 <manugupt1> Ok.. so since CarlosRibeiro you sentences have been said no 18:55:07 <CarlosRibeiro> ahahaha - I just remember about Jos now.... I wonder how is he cooking at toaillet... I imagining if he do some mistakes about ingredients :D 18:55:27 <manugupt1> So I am the winner and I get an all paid trip to oSC paid by jospoortvliet :D 18:55:41 <suseROCKs> all-paid??? 18:55:47 <suseROCKs> no just airfare and hotel :-P 18:55:48 <CarlosRibeiro> :D 18:55:53 <suseROCKs> you buy your own beer and hookers 18:56:16 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, I dont drink beer 18:56:19 <rkumar> manugupt1, :) 18:56:33 <suseROCKs> notice manugupt1 only denied the beer? :-D 18:56:36 <CarlosRibeiro> manugupt1: so you will pay for your own milk :D 18:56:41 <rkumar> suseROCKs, I remember you and awafaa promised me some beer on #ifolder 18:56:46 <rkumar> :) 18:57:02 <suseROCKs> rkumar, We gave it to you, but you were too drunk to remember it. :-D 18:57:12 <CarlosRibeiro> I get you beer, ok ? 18:57:19 <manugupt1> I noticed that too but hushh suseROCKs its all been copied into the logs 18:57:51 <jospoortvliet> so I just cooked together a toilet according to suseROCKs? nice, I'll leave it at that and only tell manugupt1 that I am mading an indian pumpkin soup (in the KITCHEN) 18:58:00 <jospoortvliet> all great work btw :D 18:58:07 <jospoortvliet> will now look at it and ruin it ;-) 18:58:08 <rkumar> suseROCKs, oh yeah... now I remember :) 18:58:26 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, Indian pumpkin juice YUCK 18:58:42 <manugupt1> No one in India will have that rkumar will you 18:58:48 <jospoortvliet> not juice 18:58:50 <jospoortvliet> soup 18:58:51 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, what parts of the Indian's body do you put in the soup? 18:58:51 <jospoortvliet> jeez 18:58:58 <manugupt1> Not even Soup 18:59:00 <jospoortvliet> suseROCKs: the balls, of course... 18:59:02 <jospoortvliet> hehe 18:59:03 <manugupt1> Is it spicy 18:59:07 <jospoortvliet> yes 18:59:16 <jospoortvliet> well not like SUPER spicy but a bit ;-) 18:59:17 <manugupt1> I wont dare now 18:59:17 * rkumar is hungry and is going to eat now 18:59:19 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, are you seriously asking if the balls are spicy? 18:59:26 <jospoortvliet> grrr 18:59:30 <jospoortvliet> did robert lihm show up today? 18:59:32 <jospoortvliet> he promised... 18:59:42 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, stop fantasising about jospoortvliet now 18:59:47 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, yes and he left 18:59:51 <jospoortvliet> hmmm 18:59:55 <manugupt1> he shows up everyday 19:00:12 <jospoortvliet> did he do the theming work on the social media channels (identi.ca and twitter) that he promised? 19:00:19 <jospoortvliet> (or rather, I promised him that he'll have to do that) 19:00:20 <jospoortvliet> ? 19:00:25 <jospoortvliet> I guess not :D 19:00:26 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, be careful I gotta warn you officially now.. Dont thinks so 19:01:14 <manugupt1> Ok.. jospoortvliet You just awarded me an all expense paid trip to oSC-2011 Did you know that 19:01:34 <suseROCKs> hookers and batteries not included (TM) 19:01:39 <jospoortvliet> manugupt1: fine :D 19:02:12 <manugupt1> I am making an #info now ;) 19:02:42 <CarlosRibeiro> about theming 19:02:42 <CarlosRibeiro> somebody is working on that? 19:02:47 <manugupt1> Ok.. no.. 19:03:39 * sj is back for sometime :) 19:03:44 <sj> hello peeps :) 19:04:00 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, I suggest we check out what we have covered 19:04:14 <manugupt1> hi sj 19:04:28 <CarlosRibeiro> sj: hello 19:04:46 <sj> manugupt1, hi 19:04:49 <jospoortvliet> hi sj 19:04:51 <sj> CarlosRibeiro, how have you been 19:04:58 <sj> jospoortvliet, hello :) 19:05:38 <sj> jospoortvliet, how have you been ? :) 19:05:56 <jospoortvliet> sj: usual - busy but happy :D 19:06:09 <sj> i like being busy and that makes me happy :) 19:06:23 <manugupt1> sj, I hate being busy 19:06:29 <sj> :) 19:06:30 <CarlosRibeiro> sj: I've try to be a good boy during 2010, ... you know man, I cannot tell the true, we never know if santa claus is in this chanell, and I would like to have a nice present from him next 25 ;) 19:06:46 <sj> CarlosRibeiro, haha :) 19:07:03 <sj> alright CarlosRibeiro so how bad were you ? 19:07:13 <sj> that doesnt sound good . jk CarlosRibeiro :) 19:07:30 <CarlosRibeiro> sj: Hey Santa Claus, if you are around here, I was a good boy, serious 19:08:10 <sj> yes he was :) 19:08:14 <CarlosRibeiro> so and to prove that I was a nice guy I 'm giving some cents as my contribuition for today Collaboration Day 19:08:31 <sj> jospoortvliet, am i interrupting the meeting ? you guys can continue 19:08:46 <sj> :) 19:08:47 <manugupt1> sj, we are having fun as usual :) 19:08:55 <sj> cool ! 19:09:50 <CarlosRibeiro> ok, I need to back on track and focus on work to be done 19:10:07 <manugupt1> jospoortvliet, You there 19:10:10 <manugupt1> also suseROCKs 19:10:14 <manugupt1> you too 19:10:24 <jospoortvliet> I'm here 19:10:28 <jospoortvliet> going through the docs 19:10:29 <manugupt1> I made some comments http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/oS-Collab-SocialMedia 19:10:34 <suseROCKs> i'm back 19:10:39 <manugupt1> Check that out 19:10:42 <jospoortvliet> but I will be in a call 19:10:45 <jospoortvliet> with vuntz 19:10:47 <jospoortvliet> about now, sorry 19:10:55 <suseROCKs> jospoortvliet, say hi to vuntz for me 19:11:14 <manugupt1> You need to scroll them down 19:17:41 <manugupt1> Guys I think I will leave now 19:17:55 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, jospoortvliet please can you continue 19:18:33 <manugupt1> I will wait for them 19:23:49 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, jospoortvliet let me know whenever you are alive 19:27:22 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, what exactly is it you need? 19:27:35 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, I need to get some sleep 19:27:47 <suseROCKs> and you want us to do the sleeping for you? :-) 19:27:50 <manugupt1> So I wanted some one to be here 19:28:25 <manugupt1> suseROCKs, Good night I am leaving I am exhausted for today 19:29:14 <manugupt1> Fine with you sir 19:29:14 <suseROCKs> manugupt1, ok I gotta talk to the workers now. Many thanks for all your work! 19:30:01 <manugupt1> So bye all enjoy continue thanks a lot for your work :) 19:52:55 <jospoortvliet> good night manu... 19:52:59 <jospoortvliet> sorry that I missed him leaving... 19:53:11 <jospoortvliet> he did amazing work... 20:01:42 <jospoortvliet> and now, guys, I need to EAT the food I made, sorry! 20:01:46 <jospoortvliet> will be back later. 20:01:50 <jospoortvliet> thanks all, again :D 20:42:11 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: u dont need to eat 20:42:52 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: are you calling me fat? 20:43:06 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: do you want me to beat you up? 20:43:08 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 20:49:05 <gnokii> no I dont call u fat, but only who works can eat, so report what u have done today 20:49:57 <gnokii> btw, I had some nice lamb, an pudding with water from roses (tasted like soap) for dinner and 3 black beer 20:55:12 <javier_> tasted like soap? 20:55:34 <javier_> rose-flavour soap ;) 21:10:46 <gnokii> javier_: yes 21:19:28 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, hi are you around? 21:19:39 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup! 21:19:42 <jospoortvliet> good morning!!! 21:19:46 <jospoortvliet> slept well I hope? 21:19:48 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 21:19:51 <helen_au> yes thank you :) 21:20:12 <helen_au> question re Tumbleweed: Yaloki mentioned political sensitivity 21:20:15 <gnokii> huhu helen_au 21:20:18 <helen_au> of Tumbleweed and Evergreen 21:20:24 * helen_au waves at gnokii 21:20:35 <gnokii> helen_au: there is only politics in evergreen 21:20:46 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: helen_au: indeed, I think so too 21:20:49 <helen_au> ok so we DO go ahead and say stuff about tumbleweed then? 21:20:49 <gnokii> its about an free version of SLES 21:21:06 <jospoortvliet> the problem with Evergreen /LTS is that it might bump into the business of Novell 21:21:16 <helen_au> oh right that makes sense. 21:21:19 <jospoortvliet> one of the options for doing evergreen was doing an open version of SLES 21:21:25 <jospoortvliet> which wouldn't be appreciated for obvious reasons 21:21:27 <gnokii> about tumbleweed that definitly happen, GKH stnads for it and coolo helped him last week to set it up 21:21:29 <yaloki> helen_au: evergreen, not tumbleweed 21:21:42 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: the reasons aren't necessarily obvious 21:21:48 <helen_au> ok, so we leave evergreen alone but Tumbleweed is LTS desktop so going ahead. 21:21:58 <helen_au> I had mentally lumped them together as both lts 21:22:09 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: there is no problem, there was a clear statement from Gerald last year at conference 21:22:25 <gnokii> and if u read the discussion right, same statment this year 21:22:41 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: well, Novell sees it as a potential business danger; moreover, I heard that Red Hat is not happy with CentOS and they claim that it eats into their business. I personally see the pro's and con's but fact of the matter is that senior management doesn't want it and frankly I simply don't have good arguments to change their minds. 21:22:46 <yaloki> helen_au: no, two different beasts :) 21:22:54 <helen_au> yep I see now. 21:22:55 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: wait wait 21:23:01 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: tumbleweed is the rolling release 21:23:03 <yaloki> jospoortvliet: 1) redhat loves centos, that's a fact 21:23:12 <yaloki> you'll never have a public statement on that 21:23:13 <jospoortvliet> evergreen is openSUSE LTS 21:23:18 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: there is a difference between Centos and evergreen 21:23:22 <yaloki> but I've talked extensively to a former core centos member 21:23:24 <yaloki> now 21:23:31 <gnokii> centos is a RHEL clone, evergreen not 21:23:34 <jospoortvliet> and a potential openSLE would be a bigger issue (and be like centos) 21:23:37 <yaloki> the (understandable) reason for which "openSLE" won't happen 21:23:57 <yaloki> is that the subscription-only sales with SLE are an important part of the SLE revenue 21:24:07 <yaloki> that part would obviously disappear if we have an openSLE 21:24:12 <yaloki> so that's why 21:24:14 <yaloki> and it's a good reason 21:24:21 <yaloki> but it isn't obvious to everyone :) 21:24:29 * helen_au nods... 21:24:42 <yaloki> of course, it's chicken/egg 21:24:56 <yaloki> with an openSLE, it is likely that SLE would get more traction and sales 21:25:04 <yaloki> but there is no guarantee that that'll happen 21:25:07 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: that is the same for CentOS. I know Red Hat was initially not that opposed but I heard that lately they have changed their minds after seeing more of the effects of CENTOS. Apparently they currently believe it hurts their business. Meanwhile you're right in that this will never be stated publicly, one way or another. 21:25:07 <helen_au> would LTS openSUSE have any impact on SLED, even without the support factors? 21:25:15 <helen_au> LTS is a big factor to me. 21:25:27 <yaloki> helen_au: it wouldn't 21:25:30 <gnokii> KDE sucks it need so much RAM I cant open a konsole for install gnoem 21:25:49 <helen_au> gnokii, really how much RAM do you have? 21:25:54 <jospoortvliet> yaloki: I agree on that one, there might be a minor impact, with emphasis on minor 21:25:56 <yaloki> helen_au: openSUSE LTS (aka "evergreen") is a different thing, and we're still thinking about the options 21:25:57 <gnokii> 1024 21:26:07 <jospoortvliet> and there are positive effects too so in the end I think it would be a plus 21:26:12 <helen_au> oh that ain't much. Boot straight to CL 21:26:18 <helen_au> install from command line then. 21:26:48 <helen_au> oh jeebus I thought Evergreen was the LTS server. Tumbleweed is the server? 21:27:03 <yaloki> helen_au: no, they're two totally different things 21:27:19 <helen_au> which one is which. (sorry the caffiene hasn't hit). 21:28:04 <helen_au> gnokii, actually with 1024 you'll have to turn off compiz and gnome will be boring, install LXDE 21:28:21 <gnokii> no helen_au tumbleweed is a rolling release distribution of openSUSE 21:28:48 <helen_au> right so I was right the first time. 21:28:54 <gnokii> helen_au: I would do that, when I wouldnt need the KDE side 21:28:58 <helen_au> LTS=long term support rolling release 21:29:00 <helen_au> ? 21:29:04 <gnokii> no 21:29:15 <gnokii> long term support means not rolling releas 21:29:28 <helen_au> aha. 21:29:40 <gnokii> lts means u get apache 2.x and u sty with apache 2.x the next 3 years 21:29:53 <gnokii> rolling releas means u always get the newest one 21:29:53 <helen_au> oh. really? wouldn't it get dated really quickly? 21:30:22 <yaloki> helen_au: it gets updated all the time 21:30:24 <helen_au> so Tumbleweed is rolling release like Arch, always getting new things 21:30:29 <yaloki> helen_au: yes 21:30:51 <yaloki> helen_au: pretty much what you can already get right now, if you add lots and lots of additional repositories 21:30:53 <gnokii> right 21:30:55 <helen_au> Evergreen if it goes ahead would be a server edition long term support, which doesn't change much at all. 21:31:05 <yaloki> helen_au: sort of 21:31:11 <yaloki> helen_au: the fact that it's server oriented is 21:31:26 <yaloki> 1) because we don't think we'd have the manpower to do the maintenance of a complete distro (including the desktop) 21:31:41 <yaloki> 2) because we believe that the most common scenario/need for an LTS distro is for servers 21:31:53 <helen_au> I see. 21:31:57 <yaloki> especially hosted servers where you don't have physical access and where upgrading a distro is always a risky undertaking 21:32:15 <helen_au> mm. 21:32:16 <yaloki> helen_au: so the idea with evergreen would be to start by prolonging an EOL release, e.g. 11.1 21:32:30 <yaloki> helen_au: but concentrate on a small core of the system, to be realistic 21:32:47 <gnokii> yes helen_au thats the point and then stepped another forward and cried for an SLED/SLES version noone wanted that, even jospoortvliet saw that 21:32:51 <helen_au> and as you said earlier, the people who would want that at the moment are probably SLES customers? 21:32:52 <yaloki> helen_au: kernel, glibc, etc... -- for the rest, you can always get newer versions from OBS repositories (e.g. for apache or mysql or ...) 21:33:05 <yaloki> helen_au: no 21:33:15 <yaloki> helen_au: that would be for the "openSLE" option 21:33:24 <yaloki> helen_au: we saw two ways of implementing an "openSUSE LTS" 21:33:36 <yaloki> helen_au: either we do "openSLE", or we make it based on openSUSE 21:33:53 <yaloki> helen_au: the former is next to impossible, except doing it as a rogue initiative against the will of novell 21:33:59 <helen_au> but it's still got the same application - running a server? 21:34:00 <yaloki> helen_au: (and, hence, not as a part of the opensuse project) 21:34:18 <yaloki> helen_au: limiting ourselves to the server is due to the choice we're doing 21:34:25 <helen_au> sure 21:34:32 <yaloki> it's not necessarily the goal per se 21:34:57 <yaloki> if a lot of people join the evergreen project, we could include a lot more software in the support, including KDE and GNOME 21:35:12 <yaloki> but the idea is to start small (kernel, stuff like that) 21:35:18 <helen_au> o I see. 21:35:27 <yaloki> because the tricky thing is, and that's where it is diametrically opposed to tumbleweed, 21:35:33 <yaloki> in order to provide the maintenance, 21:35:45 <yaloki> we'll have to backport bugfixes and security fixes on older versions of things (e.g. kernel) 21:36:02 <yaloki> to avoid pushing newer versions of those packages, which would introduce new risks of incompatibilities and things breaking 21:36:07 <yaloki> so that's quite some amount of work 21:36:18 <helen_au> could that dilute the efforts with openSUSE desktop? 21:36:33 <yaloki> define "openSUSE desktop" 21:36:48 <yaloki> helen_au: you mean the kde and gnome teams' efforts? 21:37:10 <helen_au> well would it be a separate team to maintian 21:37:13 <yaloki> not really, no, as they are focusing on the next release 21:37:19 <yaloki> and they will continue to do so 21:37:34 <yaloki> and only provide e.g. the newest KDE on versions that are not end of life 21:37:43 <yaloki> but they only do when it's possible without too much effort 21:38:08 <yaloki> helen_au: I have no idea whether they would also help us and do the work of patching KDE/GNOME on evergreen 21:38:24 <helen_au> there's only so many hours in a day 21:38:28 <yaloki> helen_au: it definitely wouldn't be part of their work assignments, for those who work for novell 21:38:46 <yaloki> helen_au: as novell will not invest into evergreen, they don't see the need for it or, rather, it's not a priority for them 21:39:08 <yaloki> helen_au: so it's something that will solely be driven and implemented during people's free time 21:39:36 <yaloki> helen_au: it's likely that we'll have some help from the suse security team (marcus & friends) as they already have to do that work for SLE 21:39:44 <yaloki> but we're not there yet ^^ 21:39:46 <helen_au> ok 21:39:55 <yaloki> (which is why I said earlier that it's really too early to write anything about it) 21:40:00 <helen_au> yep. 21:40:10 <yaloki> hope that helped clarifying :) 21:40:13 * yaloki bbiab 21:40:27 <helen_au> thanks 21:42:12 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: so now you know everything :D 21:42:15 <jospoortvliet> btw 21:42:31 <jospoortvliet> I wanted to get an article out on these two projects on news.o.o 21:42:34 <jospoortvliet> started something, mostly notes 21:42:44 <jospoortvliet> Izabel offered to help but she hasn't had time yet 21:42:49 <helen_au> well it seems we would want to tread carefully there though. 21:42:56 <helen_au> it's all a bit 'up in the air' 21:43:19 <jospoortvliet> well at news.o.o we can easily say that it's simply about new initiatives being started and they are new so if they don't work out, well, that's how things go... 21:43:23 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 21:43:25 <helen_au> just reading the bit about the Board meetings - lol@email asking to speed an application, I wonder if it was that kid on Facebook 21:43:29 <jospoortvliet> and give pointers as to where to start... 21:43:32 * gnokii sends helen_au a piece of stollen yaloki get none, he dont like it 21:43:50 * helen_au thanks gnokii *yum* 21:44:29 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, talking 'around' the projects... marketing-speak..... 21:44:48 <gnokii> helen_au: we should participatee in K16 21:45:01 <helen_au> K16? 21:45:09 <helen_au> (am I living under a rock?) 21:46:17 <gnokii> its a project from KDE they want a creative work, so like a wikipedia page from 2016 and how KDE look there 21:46:37 <helen_au> hmm. 21:46:57 <helen_au> I think a three-dimensional tabletop, you just wave your hand over and can manipulate icons in 3D 21:47:03 <helen_au> flick them away 21:47:04 <gnokii> I do a comic, one programmer and 20 over him the talk about the work 21:47:08 <helen_au> pluck them out of air 21:47:15 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: helen_au this one? http://dot.kde.org/2010/12/20/introducing-k16-and-future-kde 21:48:25 <helen_au> aha. Some interesting comments there (just quick scan just now) 21:48:55 <helen_au> very good comment at top - 'how about stabilizin and optimizing' 21:49:00 <helen_au> this is very much how I feel 21:49:15 <helen_au> about software in general. - make it work! Stop adding eye candy and just make it stable! 21:49:58 <helen_au> no point in repainting my car and adding a new GPS if the engine still clunks. 21:51:44 <jospoortvliet> then again, that is not the focus of the meeting 21:51:57 <jospoortvliet> the focus is about the future, not some minor improvements - despite the fact that those are important 21:52:06 <jospoortvliet> because that's short term thinking ;-) 21:52:12 <helen_au> not necessarily 21:52:15 <jospoortvliet> which makes you eternally working on windows 95 21:52:24 <helen_au> if people start seeing future as bright shiny toys 21:52:25 <jospoortvliet> iow you get stuck recreating what MS did 15 years ago 21:52:31 * gnokii fun the whole year wasnt so lot of traffic in openSUSE on linked.in like since one of the admins of the group candidated 21:52:32 <helen_au> not smart ways to make things better 21:52:50 <helen_au> I see your point jos 21:53:01 <jospoortvliet> point is that modern computers can do much smarter things to make your work better. KDE is working on that, lately GNOME is as well (zeitgeist) 21:53:07 <helen_au> how do you make boring ideas like 'stability and functionality' part of an exciting future? 21:53:07 <jospoortvliet> but you must USE the capabilities of computers 21:53:27 <jospoortvliet> not complain that a system with 64 mb ram used to run windows 95 just fine but doesn't handle a modern KDE or GNOME desktop... 21:53:38 <jospoortvliet> well the team asks for a few things 21:53:49 <jospoortvliet> first, a vision of where computing is going 21:54:03 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: the main different between KDE and GNOME is yes gnome3 was planned to release earlier, but still on KDE are some things not released we spoke 1996 21:54:04 <jospoortvliet> second, a goal which fits in there - and gets us somewhere 21:54:14 <jospoortvliet> finally, a way to get there with the community and the way it works 21:54:39 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: GNOME is great but they work very different and have different goals. 21:54:39 <gnokii> or was it 200, I dont remember but it was a long time ago 21:54:47 <helen_au> mostly outside of my capabilities, I don't yet have a thorough enough understanding of software. 21:54:57 <helen_au> I love KDE as it is actually 21:55:15 <jospoortvliet> well yes, and the most important part is about the community, and the future of that. Less about the product 21:55:19 <helen_au> To me it feels exciting to use - light, fresh, beautiful. 21:55:21 <jospoortvliet> that doesn't matter that much, it'll get there 21:55:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: that's what they are going for. Unfortunately the 'minor' things (which you actually need) fall through the cracks too often 21:55:46 <gnokii> I need 4 clicks for a simple logout and no I dont like to add a app for a logout 21:55:57 <helen_au> (but I still have to go to gnome/ubuntu to run my graphics card with Warcraft) 21:56:14 <jospoortvliet> I've been cursing my computer downstairs yesterday. They have added a speed graph to a file progress dialog. but you can't resize progress dialogs to see the whole path. Priorities?!?!? 21:56:33 <helen_au> lol 21:56:43 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: hmmm, ctrl-shift-F12 shuts down compositing, warcraft should work by then... 21:56:47 <jospoortvliet> and you can run compiz in KDE too 21:56:53 <jospoortvliet> or even metacity 21:57:00 <jospoortvliet> I mixed and matched for a while 21:57:04 <jospoortvliet> unfortunately there are some issues 21:57:08 <helen_au> no I think some conflict between the openSUSE kernel and latest Catalyst driver 21:57:10 <jospoortvliet> and I ended up replacing pretty much all of GNOME ;-) 21:57:48 <helen_au> those issues and conflicts - they are current and real - NOT 'trying to keep windows 95 alive' 21:57:49 <jospoortvliet> eg nautilus sucks -> dolphin. Metacity & compiz kill me -> kwin. Gnome panels are OK-ish, kept that. And a few apps... 21:57:55 <gnokii> ooh did I mention I had also an salad? 21:57:57 <helen_au> it's about focusing on doing the essentials really well 21:58:01 <jospoortvliet> yes 21:58:03 <jospoortvliet> that's missing right now 21:58:15 <helen_au> a touch of perfectionism perhaps 21:58:23 <jospoortvliet> IF someone can come up with an idea on how to focus the community on that - that would be awesome 21:58:26 <helen_au> that's what Apple gets right (mostly) - less options, more perfection. 21:58:42 <jospoortvliet> that's actually where the K16 meetings originated - some KDE developers WANT to go in that direction 21:58:44 <helen_au> we all like to run off chasing our current Great Idea 21:58:55 <jospoortvliet> but many don't, they just want to play with the latest & greatest tech 21:58:57 <jospoortvliet> yes 21:58:59 <jospoortvliet> exactly 21:59:06 <helen_au> we shouldn't be afraid of learning from others, even our enemy. :) 21:59:18 <jospoortvliet> agreed... 21:59:27 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: or some like to be a new thing to talk about 21:59:34 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: yup 21:59:45 <helen_au> something like a split focs 21:59:48 <helen_au> focus 21:59:58 <helen_au> here is the core that MUST be perfect 22:00:02 <helen_au> here is the other stuff you can play with 22:00:04 <gnokii> and that would be my comic one coder and 20 ppl they talk about 22:00:08 <jospoortvliet> but it's a balance. GNOME seemed to almost have come to a standstill, losing (volunteer) developers because there is little excitement. So you have to find something inbetween 22:00:24 <jospoortvliet> initially KDE went for that with 4.0 - at least, when it comes to usability. Polish is still lacking... 22:00:31 <jospoortvliet> and they didn't really succeed to turn the ship 22:00:33 <jospoortvliet> well some apps 22:00:37 <jospoortvliet> like gwenview and dolphin 22:00:41 <jospoortvliet> they are the best in their class 22:00:43 <jospoortvliet> by far imho 22:00:49 <jospoortvliet> but many others - still messy 22:00:50 <gnokii> ^^ 22:00:54 <jospoortvliet> eg digikam 22:00:55 <helen_au> I remember someone in a magazine talking about KDE developers as a bunch of long-haired hippies 22:01:03 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: yup, many are 22:01:04 <helen_au> while Gnome are guys in suits 22:01:09 <helen_au> (as a metaphor) 22:01:16 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: again yes, it's not a bad metaphor 22:01:22 <jospoortvliet> GNOME has a larger % of ppl paid 22:01:26 <jospoortvliet> and a much stronger top-down structure 22:01:28 <gnokii> helen_au: so far he has right 22:01:29 <jospoortvliet> leadership etc 22:01:35 <helen_au> and the attitude 22:01:36 <gnokii> gnome writes software for using 22:01:52 <gnokii> KDE have a lot of ideas, like smoking hippies :D 22:01:53 <jospoortvliet> KDE is more bottom up, more like openSUSE, GNOME is more like canonical - ppl telling where to go 22:02:06 <jospoortvliet> company influence vs community members just having fun 22:02:15 <helen_au> quite difficult to direct. 22:02:19 <jospoortvliet> that's why I feel at home in openSUSE, very flat, little ppl telling you what to do 22:02:25 <helen_au> I'm definitley KDE person then :) 22:02:27 <jospoortvliet> yes, true, that's the difficulty 22:02:28 <jospoortvliet> hehe 22:02:40 <helen_au> I like to do my own thing, if it's interesting I'll jump in 22:02:46 <jospoortvliet> but there is something to say for both approaches 22:03:00 <helen_au> yes otherwise it can be a big mess. 22:03:21 <helen_au> they have to find what will keep the KDE people excited and working in the same direction 22:03:41 <helen_au> get them to put in the extra 10% needed to polish up after the first excitement of a new idea has worn off 22:04:11 <jospoortvliet> I think GNOME Shell vs Plasma are perfect examples. GNOME Shell is designed by a small team, then the rest of the developers have to follow their lead. Deviations are not really allowed (which is why Canonical couldn't work with them). Plasma is - let's build great technology that allows you to do ANYTHING! Oh, yes, and we have to create a standard, old-fashioned desktop for those boring users. AND then we can HAVE fun! 22:04:13 <jospoortvliet> build a mobile version! an Netbook version! a Media Center! yay! Oh, the desktop sucks? well, you don't get it, you have to play with it more :D 22:04:36 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: so how to do that 10%? 22:04:44 <jospoortvliet> you need dedicated ppl with a clear vision for that 22:04:48 <jospoortvliet> which is what K16 aims to do 22:05:00 <jospoortvliet> They tried before with the Appeal project but it failed 22:05:09 <gnokii> KDE is more waiting for a great idea when its programmed also 22:05:39 <helen_au> hmm. I wish I'd been involved with KDE and knew more about it and the people. 22:05:41 <jospoortvliet> they hoped distributions would pick it up. SUSE used to do that to some extend, Mandriva too. But both didn't have the money for it anymore because there is little if any money to be made on the linux desktop. So now they need another way. 22:05:56 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: well it's an interesting world 22:05:58 <jospoortvliet> but so is openSUSE :D 22:06:04 <jospoortvliet> we, in the end, SHIP the darn thing 22:06:08 <jospoortvliet> and there's plenty going on here 22:06:14 <jospoortvliet> besides we're very close with KDE 22:06:16 <jospoortvliet> plenty KDE devs here 22:06:27 <jospoortvliet> and as icing on the cake - we're ALSO close to GNOME ;-) 22:06:29 <helen_au> a pity we couldn't get Novell involved, I mean desktop is so integral, and to me KDE goes so well with openSUSE 22:06:31 <jospoortvliet> you can have both in openSUSE 22:06:35 <jospoortvliet> that's the good thing 22:06:38 <helen_au> being business/learning/science, exciting and fresh 22:06:48 <helen_au> not the dull Microsoft business side 22:06:52 <jospoortvliet> yeah, I know. But Novell initially bought Ximian, and that's a GNOME shop 22:06:56 <jospoortvliet> created big issues in Novell 22:07:03 <jospoortvliet> now history, but still 22:07:07 <jospoortvliet> it's why openSUSE does both 22:07:17 <jospoortvliet> personally, I try to leverage that, as a strength, not a weakness 22:07:21 <helen_au> gnome is great too, I'm not knocking it by any means. 22:07:25 <helen_au> yeah 22:07:30 <helen_au> having that options is great 22:07:34 <jospoortvliet> after all, KDE and GNOME are so different, they can each contribute to a better FOSS world 22:07:38 <jospoortvliet> and they should cooperate more 22:07:44 <helen_au> totally 22:07:44 <jospoortvliet> which is why I'm involved in the Desktop Summit 22:07:55 <jospoortvliet> and try to push collaborative efforts... 22:07:56 <helen_au> I think this us vs them mindset we get is so counterproductive 22:08:00 <jospoortvliet> yup 22:08:10 <jospoortvliet> unless it is 'everybody against Ubuntu' 22:08:12 <jospoortvliet> joking ;-) 22:08:13 <helen_au> lol 22:08:23 <jospoortvliet> hehe 22:08:32 <helen_au> the 'off' button on my ubuntu task bar dissapeared again... bizarre 22:08:38 <jospoortvliet> actually trying to convince Ubuntu ppl to join a openSUSE organized meeting on appstore technology... 22:09:01 <jospoortvliet> hehe 22:09:10 <jospoortvliet> it just loves you so much it won't let you leave ;-) 22:09:28 <helen_au> *shudder* ... cue creepy music 22:09:38 <helen_au> they are their own entity now I think... 22:10:02 <helen_au> despite Shuttleworth's pretty letter in response to the OSCON invite I don't see them collaborating anytime soon. 22:10:16 <helen_au> I notice that Jono Bacon is popping up everywere at the moment. 22:10:59 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, if you want to get an article into a print magazine I'll be more than happy to contribute. 22:11:42 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: well the two articles I have in mind right now are more news.o.o material - information on what's going on in our community 22:11:54 <jospoortvliet> not that they couldn't, in time, be articles for print 22:12:11 <helen_au> I think while news.o.o is important it's also good to get 'out there' 22:12:15 <helen_au> get the broader profile 22:12:27 <helen_au> he's been doing a lot in Linux Format 22:12:28 <jospoortvliet> one is the 'new projects' thing (tumbleweed and maybe Evergreen), the other should be a short one about a new cloud repo being worked on 22:12:36 <jospoortvliet> hmmm 22:12:38 <helen_au> things like about burndown charts, how they develop, how their community works. 22:12:46 <jospoortvliet> hmmmmmmm 22:12:49 <gnokii> jospoortvliet: u should stop the discussion and help helen_auwrite it 22:12:54 <helen_au> community and business oriented 22:13:02 <helen_au> well I was thinking I'd help Jos write it :) 22:13:12 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: well I have those two articles to write, besides the other things like reimbursement handling etc etc 22:13:19 <jospoortvliet> and it's late already 22:13:27 <helen_au> maybe for the future that's something to think about. 22:13:36 <gnokii> then work 22:13:38 <helen_au> I'll see if I can find the articles I have from him, scan and send them to you for ideas. 22:13:46 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: I would appreciate that 22:13:52 <jospoortvliet> yes 22:13:53 <jospoortvliet> thanks 22:13:57 <helen_au> something based on your expertise in community/psychology 22:14:00 <gnokii> and keep in mind how its is when others dirve u to work, and earn the honor for what u did 22:14:40 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: ? you mean giving others credit for what I did? Actually, I do that regularly, like for news.o.o... 22:14:42 <jospoortvliet> ;-) 22:14:46 <jospoortvliet> anyway, gnokii is right, I go back to my writing... 22:14:51 <jospoortvliet> and other things 22:15:02 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: are you busy on writing things? 22:15:13 <helen_au> well mostly busy with Christmas and kids 22:15:15 <gnokii> an credit is given from u, claim the honor isnt the same like that 22:15:24 <helen_au> got to finish off OBS -still- 22:15:27 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I don't understand what you try to say 22:15:38 <helen_au> have put in proposal for Linux Format 22:15:38 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: ok, busy, I get it. Don't want to overload you ;-) 22:15:45 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: awesome, really! 22:15:46 <gnokii> u will find out one day 22:15:49 <jospoortvliet> if you need a review, let me know 22:16:03 <jospoortvliet> gnokii: I have a feeling you're not being nice but I don't understand you so I 22:16:05 <helen_au> well if you have piratepads going you can send me links 22:16:06 <jospoortvliet> will just ignore it 22:16:14 <helen_au> I'll take a look later on. 22:16:15 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: you rock. Same to you :D 22:16:57 <helen_au> jospoortvliet, cheers mate. 22:17:19 <jospoortvliet> @ helen_au and everyon else: these still need some work: http://ietherpad.com/idAZ997QVS (short descriptions of openSUSE, I prepared some texts but they need review) http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4 (announcement and feature guide) 22:17:22 <helen_au> gnokii, credit is nice but also I don't mind being 'behind the scenes'sometimes 22:17:50 <helen_au> jos has done a lot to help me get started in openSUSE so I'm always glad to give something back. 22:18:02 <helen_au> same with any openSUSE contributors that I can help out. 22:18:12 <helen_au> I think we all feel that way mostly. 22:18:37 <gnokii> helen_au: its not about credit it about who does the work and who get the cookie for it ;) btw made u ur sponsoring reqiest fpr hackfest? 22:19:01 <helen_au> Europe is a long way away and I haven't even got a passport yet 22:19:23 <helen_au> so probably not. Even with sponsorship I haven't got any spare cash anyways 22:19:32 <helen_au> so I'll contribute online :) 22:19:33 <gnokii> its in february 22:19:43 <helen_au> yeah 22:20:03 <gnokii> so make a request, jospoortvliet pay for it 22:20:30 <helen_au> all the way from here to Europe AND accommodation? 22:20:40 <helen_au> I doubt there's a budget for that 22:20:47 <jospoortvliet> fpr hackfest, what is that? 22:21:00 <gnokii> for that was a misstype 22:21:12 <helen_au> maybe next openSUSE conference, I'll have a passport and some spare cash. 22:21:28 <gnokii> helen_au: make the request 22:23:34 <gnokii> helen_au: u shouldnt worry about the costs others dont and because of that they get always cookies 22:24:40 <helen_au> about $1000 sydney to los angeles return, plus flights to wagga probably another $200 22:24:48 <jospoortvliet> helen_au: wrong channel? 22:24:56 <helen_au> oops 22:25:20 <gnokii> LA is the wrong direction :D 22:25:37 <jospoortvliet> yes ;-) 22:25:40 <helen_au> lol 22:25:43 <helen_au> oh I fail 22:25:57 <helen_au> I work for American company 22:26:24 <gnokii> no she goes not to SCALE she fly to hackfest, because its useful to have a good writer there 22:27:13 <helen_au> We have an About.com conference in USA 22:27:25 <gnokii> axo 22:28:05 <helen_au> ouch, to europe is like $1700 22:28:36 <gnokii> sydney? 22:28:47 <helen_au> yeah 22:29:14 <gnokii> what did u choose frankfurt or berlin? 22:29:29 <helen_au> there's a list of all the cities. Where is closest? 22:30:20 <gnokii> frankfurt or berlin is the same for nuremberg 22:31:08 <helen_au> frankfurt 1507 22:31:26 <gnokii> here is 850€ 22:31:27 <helen_au> anyways there's a lot going on here 22:31:38 <helen_au> so I'd love to go but not sure about timing 22:31:42 <helen_au> we'll see. 22:32:18 <gnokii> ok, but make sure u can come to conference 22:33:11 <helen_au> yeah later in the year would be a better time for me to take a holiday. 22:33:17 <helen_au> My husband is starting new jobs. 22:33:28 <helen_au> kids starting highschool 22:33:45 <helen_au> its ok for young guys to fly all over the countryside! 22:34:27 <gnokii> hoho, I am not soo young 22:34:36 <helen_au> but you have a wife at home? 22:35:09 <gnokii> for what? 22:35:19 <helen_au> taking care of your kids while you fly off 22:35:27 <helen_au> and feeding the dog and cat... 22:35:42 <gnokii> have no dog and cat :D 22:36:45 <helen_au> I have a menagerie 22:37:09 <gnokii> the dog u can bring with u, he can bite jospoortvliet 22:37:13 <helen_au> lol 22:38:14 <helen_au> well instead of working I've been chatting... I'd better go get some things done and then play with my kids 22:38:19 <helen_au> I'll see you later! 22:38:27 <gnokii> oki 22:39:03 <jospoortvliet> ttyl 22:40:00 * yaloki yawns 22:44:12 <yaloki> "we can be heroes, just for one day" 23:17:09 <suseROCKs> #endmeeting