17:29:49 <wstephenson> #startmeeting 17:29:49 <bugbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 11 17:29:49 2010 UTC. The chair is wstephenson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:29:49 <bugbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:31:37 <wstephenson> welcome to this week's meeting 17:31:39 <wstephenson> what have we got 17:31:43 <wstephenson> agenda: 17:31:49 <wstephenson> drop 11.2 from KDE:Unstable:SC build? 17:31:55 <wstephenson> * Assign additional #opensuse-kde IRC channel operator(s) 17:32:02 <wstephenson> * Replacement of some "older" applications in KDF ? (e.g. Rekonq vs Arora, Bluedevil vs kbluetooth, etc) 17:32:10 <wstephenson> * old action items 17:32:14 <wstephenson> * status reports 17:32:18 <wstephenson> * Q&A, misc 17:33:28 <wstephenson> rabauke, llunak, herby, javier_, leinir, mrdocs, sebas, thrice`, tigerfoot, tittiatcoke, anaumov, cb400f, Dominian, dirk, coolo, ping - meeting starting! 17:33:43 <Dominian> ack 17:33:49 <leinir> present 17:33:54 <javier_> me too 17:33:55 <thrice`> +1 17:33:56 <Dominian> I'm awake.. I'm awake! 17:33:59 <wstephenson> * old action items 17:34:13 <wstephenson> wstephenson - media package lists in gitorious - not done 17:34:20 <wstephenson> * status report 17:34:39 * wstephenson was variously at the conference, on holiday and being ill for the last 3 weeks 17:34:48 <wstephenson> so not much to tell there. 17:34:59 * tigerfoot sorry, on customer site, so don't count too much on me. 17:35:09 <wstephenson> just catching up things, making KDE-SDK-Live more generally useful. 17:35:17 <wstephenson> writing milestone announcements 17:35:20 * tittiatcoke was busy with the update of Unstable 17:35:22 <wstephenson> anyone else got a story to tell? 17:35:30 <wstephenson> how is Unstable? 17:35:46 <tittiatcoke> Surprisingly stable :-) 17:36:12 <tigerfoot> Unstable work great lot's of bug have disappear ... really 17:36:16 <tittiatcoke> There is quite some progress on PowerDevil and Solid with regards to upower and udisk. So I guess we might see a hal-less KDE 4.6 17:36:38 <thrice`> I talked to the k3b guys a couple weeks ago about the dependence of k3b on hal; he mentioned that the only code that relies on hal for k3b, is to basically tell hal to stop polling the optical drive constantly 17:36:40 <tigerfoot> tittiatcoke: cool. 17:36:50 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: needs breaking then! 17:37:03 <wstephenson> thrice`: good news 17:37:08 <wstephenson> was that markuss? 17:37:11 <thrice`> so, once solid kills the hal dep, k3b can too. currently, the spec file specifically calls it as a depends 17:37:27 <thrice`> wstephenson, yep :> 17:37:51 <tittiatcoke> I want to see what works and not with just udisk and upower. 17:38:02 <wstephenson> there was a list of missing things on k-h-d@ 17:38:06 <wstephenson> sec 17:38:35 <thrice`> http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-hardware-devel/2010-November/001108.html is the thread 17:39:09 <wstephenson> yeah 17:39:26 <wstephenson> only 3 left out of 6 17:40:08 * wstephenson is bug triaging kmail2 this weekend 17:40:14 <wstephenson> anyone wants to help, come to #kontact 17:40:33 <wstephenson> i'm rerolling kde-sdk-live with debuginfo as a test article. 17:41:07 <wstephenson> any more status? 17:42:02 <tittiatcoke> not from me 17:42:16 <wstephenson> * drop 11.2 from KUSC? 17:43:08 <cb400f> alin's item? 17:43:57 <wstephenson> yes 17:44:05 <wstephenson> 11.2 doesn't look any redder than 11.3 17:44:20 <wstephenson> so i guess he suggested it to save build resources 17:44:32 <alin> wstephenson: hi... sorry teaching... storm here 17:44:57 <wstephenson> alin: ah there you are 17:45:05 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: It is indeed only to save build resources. 17:45:18 <cb400f> anyone got an estimate how much build power the 11.1 EOL will save? ~20-30% ? :-) 17:45:22 <tittiatcoke> I don't have any particular 11.2 issues with Unstable 17:45:33 <alin> wstephenson: I am an anarchist but I still care 17:45:48 <wstephenson> anyone against? 17:45:58 <cb400f> maybe ask on the ml? 17:46:06 <tittiatcoke> I guess that we should still announce it on the ML 17:46:17 <cb400f> I wouldn't be surprised if there's quite a few 11.2+kusc people there 17:46:18 <wstephenson> i'll check with the OBS guys too, see if there is a resource shortage atm. 17:46:23 <tittiatcoke> I don't know how many other 11.2 users are using Unstable 17:46:33 <alin> that is perfect... we see who is using it... and help them to migrate to 11.3 or higher 17:46:40 <alin> if the number is not big 17:46:47 <cb400f> of course it could be a good way to push those people to KDF instead :-) 17:47:00 <wstephenson> hah, this machine is 11.2 because 11.3's perl won't run squeezeboxserver, want to fix that? ;) 17:47:30 <wstephenson> i'll check if we have cause with the OBS guys 17:47:41 <wstephenson> otherwise it seems like micro-optimisation. 17:47:48 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Could we find out how much download we have for that repo ? 17:48:01 <wstephenson> coolo: about? 17:48:18 <thrice`> yeah, perhaps see how many pull from it 17:48:41 <wstephenson> https://build.opensuse.org/ stats don't look too loaded. 17:48:54 <wstephenson> #action wstephenson check demand and resource levels 17:49:03 <rabauke> people that use unstable are likely not to use an "older" release as a base for that. 17:49:04 <wstephenson> * extend operator list for this channel 17:49:41 <wstephenson> background, only old kde team members have ops here, and we're not always on hand 17:49:57 <rabauke> *are not likely to use... 17:50:08 <Dominian> most of those members are opensuse members as wel I take it? 17:50:19 <Dominian> er..OPs are opensuse members is what I meant. 17:50:31 <wstephenson> Dominian: the current set are/were all employees actually 17:50:41 <Dominian> ahhhhh 17:50:44 <wstephenson> so a couple of people have suggested names to me 17:51:10 <wstephenson> which are *drum roll* cb400f, mrdocs and tittiatcoke 17:51:24 * Dominian nods 17:51:25 <wstephenson> what do we think of that? 17:51:43 <thrice`> sounds fine :> 17:51:43 <Dominian> all contributing opensuse members.. I see no issue with it. 17:52:00 <cb400f> I'm a noob operator.. but I can manage to update the topic :-) 17:52:07 <Dominian> heh 17:52:11 <cb400f> rarely see much trolling here anyway 17:52:14 <Dominian> its not that difficult to op in a chan :P 17:52:23 <tittiatcoke> Guess we are all nicely behaving :-) 17:52:30 <Dominian> I OP for ##linux... 750+ nicks.. 17:52:37 <Dominian> that gets nuts every so often 17:52:44 <wstephenson> well the criteria is being here and being responsible 17:52:58 <wstephenson> then keeping a cool head 17:53:04 <tittiatcoke> I guess with the three of us that should be possible :-) 17:53:11 <Dominian> wstephenson: Should also be a opensuse member I would think? 17:53:51 <wstephenson> yes i suppose, do the candidates all fulfil that? i assume so. 17:53:59 <Dominian> yeah it appears they do 17:54:12 <wstephenson> have any of you opped much before? 17:54:24 * tittiatcoke not really 17:54:40 * wstephenson is a terrible op and prefers not to do it unless needed 17:54:47 <cb400f> I'm an op in #suse and #opensuse-chat too.. but I don't really know what I'm doing, I was pushed :-) 17:54:56 <wstephenson> well it's mainly about not power tripping 17:54:56 <cb400f> and #opensuse-nordic 17:55:05 <wstephenson> and not overreacting 17:55:09 <wstephenson> Dominian: agree? 17:55:41 <wstephenson> the more you use the power to kickban people, the less it helps. 17:56:05 <wstephenson> cb400f: if you can handle #suse then you are fine 17:56:09 <wstephenson> mrdocs: around? 17:56:27 <tittiatcoke> Doesn't seem like it 17:57:09 <Dominian> wstephenson: Eh.. I have no say so :) I'm not even an opensuse member (official) yet ;) 17:57:27 <wstephenson> Dominian: well, if you op ##linux you might have an opinion, even if not a say 17:57:37 <Dominian> ahh 17:57:45 <Dominian> Yeah.. kickbanning is usually a last resort 17:57:48 <cb400f> wstephenson: I should have my temper and impulses under control.. my biggest concern is accidentally banning 75% of germany or so :-) 17:57:55 <Dominian> but sometimes its hard to avoid it 17:58:08 <Dominian> cb400f: If you need tips.. you ask me. 17:58:16 * Dominian was, at one point, freenode staff as well.. so I've been around a bit. 17:59:04 <tittiatcoke> Good to know that we have a very experienced person around :-) 17:59:14 <cb400f> yup 17:59:41 <alin> wstephenson: do not give them power to kick... they will bully me... 17:59:51 <wstephenson> can only the founder change the op list? 17:59:57 <Dominian> anyone with +f 17:59:59 <wstephenson> i'm looking in chanserv's help 18:00:23 <Dominian> wstephenson: so you should be able to 18:00:40 <Dominian> /msg chanserv flags #opensuse-kde cb400f +<flags> 18:00:51 <wstephenson> #action wstephenson give new ops ops 18:01:11 <Dominian> and keep in mind don't give +f unless you want others the ability to add/remove flags 18:01:14 <wstephenson> oh and another thing 18:01:14 <wstephenson> i don't usually op unless i need to 18:01:32 <wstephenson> it saves you from people who think the op is the 24h info service 18:02:12 <wstephenson> ok, i'll read the docs and do it right instead of doing it now. 18:02:24 <wstephenson> anything more to discuss on that topic 18:02:27 <Dominian> Yeah the flags in chanserv are all nickserv account based 18:02:28 <wstephenson> ? 18:02:29 <Dominian> keep that in mind as well 18:02:45 <wstephenson> Dominian: meaning make sure people are registered? 18:03:19 <Dominian> Its best 18:03:26 * tittiatcoke I am registered 18:03:38 <Dominian> If you do it based on Nick like: Nick!*@* would mean anyone with the nick Nick would have flags on the channel 18:04:06 * wstephenson is afk, holding baby for 2 mins 18:05:21 * cb400f is registered too 18:05:43 <wstephenson> so make sure nick is protected too? 18:08:49 <Dominian> protected? 18:08:57 <Dominian> the nick protection just keeps peole from sitting on your nick 18:09:06 <Dominian> for the flags to apply they'd have to identify to the nick to nickserv 18:09:10 <wstephenson> ok 18:09:40 <wstephenson> * Replacement of some "older" applications in KDF ? (e.g. Rekonq vs Arora, Bluedevil vs kbluetooth, etc) 18:09:56 <wstephenson> who owns that? 18:11:41 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: I put that one up, but cb400f mentioned that he wanted to discuss the strategy around it 18:13:00 <wstephenson> bluedevil is just waiting on me to action it 18:13:16 <tittiatcoke> cb400f: Anything you want to add ? 18:13:17 <cb400f> not really.. I would just like to urge people to submit the stuff we want in 11.4 to KDF asap so it can be thoroughly tested 18:13:21 <wstephenson> rekonq/arora - dunno, both are active 18:13:25 <wstephenson> ok, noted 18:13:44 <cb400f> afterall KDF is what should ensure world domination shortly 18:14:05 <wstephenson> indeed 18:14:12 <cb400f> and update the patterns accordingly.. so the stuff gets installed for people too 18:15:00 <rabauke> then strigi should be updated as well! 18:15:01 <cb400f> gtk-oxygen-engine, and phonon-vlc are other big candidates for kdf imo 18:15:04 <wstephenson> yeah that proved a bit trickier, i have to go round via MRs to the gitorious project 18:15:23 <rabauke> not sure if the new release makes it in time, but there have been significant fixes since 0.7.2. 18:15:45 <tittiatcoke> cb400f: phonon-vlc can not go without vlc in Factory. I will submit it first to multimedia (or something similar) 18:16:15 <cb400f> ok.. I wonder where gtk-oxygen-engine would belong.. oxygen-molecule is not in KDF either it seems 18:16:15 <rabauke> vandenoever promised a new strigi release soon 18:16:35 <wstephenson> he's not online. 18:16:37 <tittiatcoke> cb400f: gtk-oxygen-engine is in Extra, but I can move it to KDF ? 18:16:39 <wstephenson> or i'd twist his arm 18:17:06 <cb400f> tittiatcoke: if we think it's better than oxygen-molecule it should definitely go in the distro.. asap 18:17:16 <tittiatcoke> :-) 18:17:22 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Any thoughts on that one ? 18:17:23 <cb400f> I tend to think so.. but I don't use that many gtk apps.. so I could be missing something 18:17:56 <tittiatcoke> Well, I am also using gtk-oxygen-engine. It's very good 18:18:03 <wstephenson> tittiatcoke: i haven't tested it. 18:18:11 <wstephenson> on my todo now 18:18:22 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: Ok. It is in Extra and it's actively maintained 18:18:51 <wstephenson> i'll ask the gnomes what they think of it 18:18:59 <wstephenson> what about the browsers? 18:19:13 <wstephenson> i'd keep both. dunno about changing standard 18:19:19 <tittiatcoke> personally I like Rekonq better 18:19:30 <tittiatcoke> atm KDF only has arora 18:19:42 <cb400f> I think FF should remain default.. but we need rekonq in the distro to please kde purists 18:19:52 <cb400f> too few people use Extra 18:20:16 <cb400f> koolo says Extra fewer users than KDF :-( 18:20:30 <cb400f> Extra _has_ fewer users 18:22:22 <wstephenson> rekonq is the only real candidate for default browser 18:22:27 <cb400f> same for updatedapps btw... dunno what's wrong with people... everybody should use Extra and UpdatedApps :-) 18:22:27 <wstephenson> aside from FF 18:22:44 <wstephenson> cb400f: we should publicise services instead of individual projects 18:23:51 <wstephenson> so what action do we need on rekonq? 18:23:56 <wstephenson> move it to KDF? 18:23:57 * herby likes konqueror with webkit 18:24:15 * javier_ likes konqueror with khtml 18:24:28 <tittiatcoke> wstephenson: I am fine with moving it to KDF 18:24:59 <tittiatcoke> Would be better as that Rekonq officially requires Qt 4.7 18:25:17 <wstephenson> konq with khtml or webkit is surprisingly good now. 18:25:24 * cb400f likes opera, but thinks rekonq in kdf is critical for world domination/competition with kubuntu 18:25:41 <tittiatcoke> cb400f: Opera 11 looks good :-) 18:26:26 <alin> wstephenson: there are silly small things... and few big ones... 18:26:32 <alin> wstephenson: with rekonq... 18:26:49 <cb400f> wstephenson: yes, move rekonq to kdf.. drop arora or move it to extra or contrib 18:26:56 <alin> wstephenson: 1... flash blocker needs attention 18:26:56 <wstephenson> this all sounds like an "include them all, but don't change the default" outcome. agree? 18:27:01 <alin> 2.spell checker 18:27:09 <javier_> wstephenson: +1 18:27:14 <alin> 1big no google voice/video 18:27:15 <tittiatcoke> +1 18:27:18 <cb400f> move to kdf as non-default browser, but available in main repo for anti-gtk obsessers 18:27:23 <alin> 2big yahoo is not happy 18:27:50 <alin> wstephenson: we can change the default to chromium 18:28:11 <tittiatcoke> alin: Don't come up with that one :-) It is not that nice browser either :-) 18:28:25 <javier_> no, please 18:28:27 <cb400f> alin: is there a nice kde theme for it.. and kde file dialog? 18:28:40 <cb400f> and mimetype association 18:28:54 <alin> cb400f: do not swear at me... 18:29:06 <alin> cb400f: I just throw an idea... 18:29:50 <wstephenson> so, end of topic? 18:30:44 <cb400f> then we just need dmuller to fix qt so rekonq can have html5 video/audio :-) 18:31:15 <wstephenson> webkit update? 18:31:15 <tittiatcoke> Yup. end of this topic 18:31:24 <tittiatcoke> Seems so 18:31:27 <cb400f> something related to qmultimedia I think 18:31:30 <wstephenson> * Q&A, Misc 18:31:34 <wstephenson> i'll poke 18:31:43 <wstephenson> #action wstephenson poke dirk about Qt html5 stuff 18:32:13 <thrice`> 4.7.1 was recently pushed :-) 18:32:23 <cb400f> there's a bugreport.. now if I could only find it... 18:33:13 <wstephenson> so new kde booster hiring is going very well. that's all i'm going to say to avoid invoking sod's law. 18:33:54 <wstephenson> nothing else to tell here. 18:34:05 <javier_> btw, I'm trying to fix the kjots thing 18:34:14 <wstephenson> javier_: how's that going? 18:34:41 <javier_> I applied a big patch but the bug reporter says that he doesn't see the option for sorting 18:34:45 <javier_> so, I don't know 18:35:11 <thrice`> javier_, did you generate that diff from the webgui ? 18:35:19 <thrice`> er, the kde websvn gui * 18:35:42 <javier_> thrice`: nop. I downloaded some files from websvn.k.o and generated the patch afterwards 18:35:57 <tittiatcoke> javier_: Can you see that your files are being build ? 18:36:28 <wstephenson> did you remember %patchNNN? ;) 18:36:36 <javier_> tittiatcoke: I was going to do so but I couldn't (blocked status) 18:36:44 <javier_> still blocked 18:36:52 <javier_> wstephenson: sure ;-) 18:37:39 <javier_> Patch10 blabla and %patch10 18:37:49 <cb400f> thrice`: do you have the bug # for the rekonq html5 video/audio issue? .. iirc I got it from you, but can't find it in my logz 18:37:50 <wstephenson> ok 18:37:59 <wstephenson> i'll end the meeting if that's ok 18:38:10 <tittiatcoke> Yup 18:38:12 <javier_> sure 18:38:44 <wstephenson> thank you gentlemen. 18:38:47 <wstephenson> #endmeeting